My oh my oh my.... I am starting to appear strident on this issue and certainly don't mean to. Again, Mary Cave who was born probably ca 1670, the woman who married John Echols and ancestress of many many people including a lot on this list, COULD NOT have been the daughter of the John Cave who married Elizabeth Travers. One reason, among others, is that Elizabeth Travers' father Giles Travers was definitely born very close to 1662 as per extant records. Thus his supposed granddaughter Mary Cave clearly could not have been born ca 1650 as we have in Jim Cave's tree, or even 1670 as is a more probable date based on births of her children. (See McIllwaine, Minutes of the Council of Virginia, pp. 270, 271, 287.) This is PROOF that Mary Cave Echols is NOT the daughter of John Cave and Elizabeth Travers...if only people who read this missive could make note of same and change their internet memorializations.

Beg your pardon, MDWW65@aol.com. I , Jim Cave, do not have Mary Cave in my tree as you say below. I was including a Travelback4u@aol.com tree for reference. Jim Cave ----- Original Message ----- From: MDWW65@aol.com To: CAVE-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:47 PM Subject: [CAVE] John Cave thru Benjamin Cave born 1703 My oh my oh my.... I am starting to appear strident on this issue and certainly don't mean to. Again, Mary Cave who was born probably ca 1670, the woman who married John Echols and ancestress of many many people including a lot on this list, COULD NOT have been the daughter of the John Cave who married Elizabeth Travers. One reason, among others, is that Elizabeth Travers' father Giles Travers was definitely born very close to 1662 as per extant records. Thus his supposed granddaughter Mary Cave clearly could not have been born ca 1650 as we have in Jim Cave's tree, or even 1670 as is a more probable date based on births of her children. (See McIllwaine, Minutes of the Council of Virginia, pp. 270, 271, 287.) This is PROOF that Mary Cave Echols is NOT the daughter of John Cave and Elizabeth Travers...if only people who read this missive could make note of same and change their internet memorializations. ______________________________