This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Cave, Echols Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/EGI.2ACEB/336 Message Board Post: There must be tens of thousands and probably hundreds of thousands of people who descend from John Echols who married Mary Cave. And everywhere you look on the Internet, including many nicely designed websites, we have recorded that this Mary Cave was the daughter of John Cave and Elizabeth Travers, who herself was the daughter of Giles Travers and Ann Waugh. I accept the very very strong possibility that John Echols wife Mary was a Cave, based on their g-grandson Milner Echols's records as well as the many early Cave - Echols connections which he would not have known about. However, Milner also states Mary was the daughter of John Cave. This may be true, (or may possibly not be, a very early David Cave seems another possibility). Even if John Cave is Mary's father, however, it can't be the same John Cave who married Elizabeth Travers! Why? Many reasons, but a clear one is this. Mary (Cave) Echols birth date is not known, but she started having children in the late 1690's. So she was born probably ca 1670 maybe as late as 1680. Some records estimate 1674. Well, Elizabeth Travers's father, Giles Travers, was born ca 1662 proven by various records. So can someone explain to me how Giles could have had a grandaughter Mary Cave who was born when he was twelve years old? My personal opinion is that John Cave who married Elizabeth Travers, was the nephew or possibly even grand nephew of Mary Cave Echols. He could NOT have been her father. Please don't take this posting as confrontational. However it would be a great service if those many people who have posted on their webpages and elsewhere, the incorrect data that Mary Cave Echols' s parents were John Cave and Elizabeth Travers, would remove that incorrect data, and even contact other descendants they have (I realize unwittingly and with no malice) passed this mistake on to.