I would like information about the latest computer programs people are using for geneology work, more specifically about the Rootsmagic geneology program. Thanks -Gary

I haven't tried Rootsmagic, but I have tried others, and am very happy with Brother's Keeper, available at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Brothers_Keeper/ You can even download it to try it out, and if you like it, then register it (with payment). I have used it for years. Don Erickson, Colorado Springs CO USA don_erickson@pcisys.net don.erickson@adelphia.net http://home.pcisys.net/~don_erickson/ ----- Original Message ----- From: <FORTENBERR@aol.com> To: <CATAWBA-WEST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: [CATAWBA-WEST] Computer Program >I would like information about the latest computer programs people are >using > for geneology work, more specifically about the Rootsmagic geneology > program. > > Thanks > -Gary > > > ==== CATAWBA-WEST Mailing List ==== > ==== CATAWBA-WEST Mailing List ==== > Sharing info on the region West of the Catawba River, NC > For further info, see http://www.rootsweb.com/~nccatawb/ > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page >

Read Barry Fell's "America B.C. for evidence of where the Melungeons may have derived. Also David Deal's book about the Los Lunas site in New Mexico. In its hey-day the Spanish fleet numbered only about 500 vessels and where dependent upon wind power. The Cartheginians had a fleet almost three times that large. Each ship was far larger and manned with rowers so could go anywhere, anytime. What did they want in the North America? FUR! The Mediterranean Region had been hunted and trapped out by the time of the Roman Empire. The Cherokee language is also a dead give-away; it's based upon Punic - a North African language. ________________________________________________________________ Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give

Robert, Correct about the male testing being done using the Y-chromosome. The female test uses the mitochondrial DNA that we all have. We get our mitochondrial DNA from our mother, and she got hers from her mother, etc. Both males and females can have their female lineage tested, but it is problematic for genealogical purposes. The reason being that the female's surname changes with each generation. Most Y-chromosome DNA goes with the family name gotten from the father. I say most, because there are instances of illigitimaticy and adoption. I am participating in the Y-DNA testing of people with the surname of Campbell. My g-g-grandfather was John D. Campbell (1812-1890) of Lincoln/Catawba County. I have a third cousin who was also tested, and we vary by one marker in thirty-seven. Our DNA is close to some Campbells whose ancestors were from Pennsylvania. The biggest problem is that a lot of our ancestors were poor, and the poor don't leave much of a paper trail. Perhaps someday we will be able to tie our families together. If there are questions or comments, don't hesitate to contact me directly. Jim Campbell My home page (just my lines, not everyone) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jecralnc My GEDCOM (everyone, except the living, in my database) http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jecralnc Robert and Sue Carpenter wrote: >Our test is the Y chromosone test which applies to males only. There is a X >test for females. I am not as familiar with that test except that it is >done. > >

Dear folks, I have been reading some of your writings over the last few nights but have not had time to make comments. I have now found some time. First, the issue of an Indian capture in the 1830's or so. This would be highly unlikely in the Gaston-Lincoln-Catawba County area. This is the period when the Cherokees were removed west. Any contact with Indians would have been in western NC. The Cherokee posed a serious threat to white settlers until the American Revolution. While the major Cherokee War which occurred in 1760-61 was cited here, the Cherokees did pose a threat upon the frontier in 1775-76. But the frontier at this time was not Lincoln and Catawba County but rather present Burke and McDowell Counties. The Indians raided white settlements at Old Fort and at Pleasant Gardens at that time and General Griffith Rutherford took a 1000 man militia force over the mountains. His soldiers did not fight many Indians, most of whom had fled. But rather they simply burned villages and crops. Their destruction in the Cherokee Expedition of 1776 left the Cherokee nation much weaker. But near the end of the Revolution in 1781 and 82 rumours of Indian activity resurfaced upon this western frontier. Again local militia officers from our area raised units and marched westward destroying towns, crops, and women and children. The Cherokees never again were seen as a serious threat to the white settlers. But whites continued to trade with them, to marry them, and to come into contact with them. Melungeons -- what an interesting topic. This unusual group of mixed race people from the mountains of Appalachia has been the source of much confusion. I have read Brent Kennedy's book and find the research fascinating. Unfortunately without DNA evidence or archaeological evidence I suspect that the truth may remain unconfirmed. Little written information about these people exist and most of it was written by the Melungeon's adversaries. The suggestion that they may descend from Portuguese and Spanish explorers who lived in western NC with Juan Pardo is possible but also questionable. Too little evidence yet exists to prove their unique existence except as a mixed race people of the Appalachian Mountians. Of course that makes DNA testing suspect. DNA testing is another tool for genealogists. I have tested my DNA at the request of a Carpenter descendant from California. He traced his line to Georgia, to a John T. Carpenter who was born in NC. He could not trace any further back. He suspected that he was descended from a Lincoln County Carpenter but could only find circumstancial evidence. He talked me into having my DNA tested. If we matched we could surmise that he was related in the manner he suspected. We did in fact match with only one marker off. We have since concluded that he belongs to our Carpenter family. We are encouraging other Carpenters from this area to have their DNA tested so that we might prove that all the descendants of the earliest Carpenter/Zimmermans are closely related. So far three of us have matched. We need, like Mr. Cosner, more people to be tested. I encourage anyone who is interested to get tested. Our test is the Y chromosone test which applies to males only. There is a X test for females. I am not as familiar with that test except that it is done. I have enjoyed all the discussions. Robert Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derick Hartshorn" <DerickH@charter.net> To: <NCLINCOL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > One of the most recent History Channel presentations was on a subject near > and dear to the hearts of researchers in this area: > the Melungeon > http://www.melungeon.org/?BISKIT=%3C$::BISKIT%3E&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10023 as > studied in DNA. > Abe Lincoln is said to be a Melungeon. They quote: > > WEIRD U.S. continues with an investigation into the Melungeons. In 1673, > when the "first" settlers arrived in Appalachia, they discovered an entire > group of people already living there. These people -- the Melungeons -- > were of unknown ancestry. They had physical traits common to Northern > Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans, as well as unique physical > characteristics like "shovel teeth" and a prominent bump at the back of the > skull. Yet, where had they come from? Were they descendants of early > sailors? Were they a lost colony that no one knew about? Today, many people > in the south think of Melungeons as little more than mythical trolls who > lived in the mountains. Yet, the Melungeons were real and their ancestors > are alive and well. The WEIRD U.S. team undertakes the mission of figuring > out who these people really were utilizing modern DNA testing procedures. > [see www.historychannel.com for listings]. > > --Derick > > > > At 02:25 PM 12/14/2004, sully@vnet.net wrote: > >Right on, Crystal. You've just described the process of genealogical > >research whether we are looking for Indian, Polish, Italian, or > >fill-in-the-blank ancestors. Most of us on this List are wandering around > >out there with you! > > > >The original inquiry produced some interesting exchanges, and I've enjoyed > >the messages. > > > >Kathy Sullivan > > > >>In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:07:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >>sully@vnet.net writes: > >> > >>Almost any family lore that includes Indian relationships or experiences > >>requires cautious (skeptical) examination. > >> > >>Kathy Sullivan > >>********************************************* > >> > >>My family, both sides, have told stories over the years of our Indian > >>heritage. I do believe there is Indian blood, but do I believe it exactly > >>as it has been carried? No. I believe you have to look under stones not > >>yet turned over. I believe you have to definitely read between the lines. > >>Go places no one else has gone. All of this is necessary in tracking > >>down Indian Ancestors. Even then, there is a strong possibility that what > >>you know in your heart to be true, may never be proven. There were too > >>many secrets. Too much shame placed. Too much running from the truth. > >>Crystal Murphy > >>Lincoln Co. NC Descendant > >>Wandering around in search of lost Ancestors > >> > > > > > > > >==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > >==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > >Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > >For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > >Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page >

Hi, I need clarification as to the identity of the following entry in the 1939 WPA Cemetery Survey of Cleveland County, NC on page 221 that are buried in Mt. Zion Baptist Church Cemetery near Cherryville, Gaston County, NC- Carpenter, Mechal Mary Carpenter (No dates) Possibilities might be: Michael Carpenter b. 1760-after 11 Dec. 1824 and Mary Cherry b. c. 1765-d. 1818-1820 both died in present day Cleveland County, NC Another possibility might be: Michael Carpenter b. bef. 1850 and Mary Elizabeth Roberts b. 8 Mar 1847-d. 22 Dec. 1908 & buried in Cherryville, Gaston Co., NC These folks might be in "Carpenters A Plenty" of which I do not have access to. Ann Propst, Brevard, NC

Does anyone have a will or estate information for Nicholas Fry (Jr) who died in Burke Co after 1840? I'm still trying to figure out the father of Elizabeth Fry who married Philip Starr. We've determined her birthdate to be about 1791/1792, so that eliminates the possibility that she was a daughter of Nicholas Sr, which means that she was most likely a granddaughter. Does anyone have a proven marriage and/or death date for Susannah Ikerd, wife of Philip Fry? I see death dates of after 1820 and after 1830 online, but I would like to find proof. Since I have a marriage bond for Philip Fry and Elizabeth Starr dated 16 Oct 1808, Susannah probably died before then. Because of the signatures of Philib Frey and George Fry on the marriage bond, I feel certain that this marriage is for Philip Sr. and not Philip Jr. as he signed his name Philip P.F. Fry. Anita

The Catawba County Library has helpfully provided links to local families. These pages contain some really valuable material. The links have been added to the Catawba County NCGenWeb Family Page http://www.rootsweb.com/~nccatawb/ccgsfam.htm Founding Families · Anthony · Clark · Hass/Horse · Eckard/Eigher/Ikerd · Killian · Moll/Mull · Perkins · Sherrill · Scheffert/Shoofoot/Shuford · Warlick · Weidner · Yoder/Yotter Please check for " Catawba County Library on-line files" --Derick

Hi, all- Just a short note to let everyone know that Florence Georgianna Killian Little b. 13 Aug. 1902 in Catawba County, NC passed away this morning at the Abernathy Center, Catawba County, NC at age 104. Florence was preceded in death by her husband, Arthur Feimster C. Little in 1983; sister, Lizzie Eugenia Killian Propst in 1978; brother, Carroll Craig Killian in 1998; sister, Mabel Ruth Killian Simmons in 1979; sister, Zelda Virginia Killian Bowman in 1989; and brother, Sumpter Lafellat Killian in 1986. She is the daughter of Sidney Lafellat Killian and Anna Geneva Propst Killian. Florence is survived by two daughters: Janice Virginia Little Harvey and Joyce Malinda Little Fiddler; numerous grandchildren, nieces, and nephews, Adrian Sidney Propst, Sr. (my husband's father), Melvin C. Propst, Paul Propst and Norman W. Propst, etc. One of her nieces, sister of the preceding brothers, Anna Geneva Propst Hass Setzer passed away on 10 April 2004 in Hickory, NC. On Dec. 8th, 2004 viewing will be held at Beth Eden Lutheran Church, Newton, Catawba County, NC between 1:30 & 2:45 p.m., followed by memorial service at 3 p.m. Burial will be at Old St. Paul's Church, Newton, NC with her husband. Funeral arrangements are by Willis-Reynolds Funeral Home, Newton, NC. In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the Memorial Fund, Beth Eden Lutheran Church. **** Derick-would you be so kind as to send me the full obituary as the preceding information was received by a phone call about an hour ago from Sid's cousin, Elaine in Conover. I would imagine there would be quite an article as Florence was 104. Thanks. Ann Propst, Brevard, NC

Folks, I have either corresponded with the lists relating to the WPA Cemetery listing of Cleveland or folks whom I have copied this post to. I bought Paul H. Dellinger's copy of the legal size, register-bound, Cleveland Co., NC WPA records at a GS book sale. I had intended to transcribe it and had laid the groundwork when I discovered some missing pages. Since then I have been unable to devote any time to the project. Ann K. Propst, in keeping with her love of transcription, offered to work with the Cleveland Co. WPA. The only work remaining would be the missing pages. Ann tells me she is missing pages 161-180. If anyone can help supply the missing pages, please contact Ann at <annsid@citcom.net> --Derick

The following sites have an adjunct Web site which will provide information on how to provide help to our troops in Harm's Way. http://www.rootsweb.com/~nccatawm/ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncburke/military.htm http://www.catawbascv.org/index.htm --Derick

A huge thanks to all who looked up the cemetary record and gave me directions to the cemetary. I learned that this was not my Elizabeth, so I'll keep looking and will certainly share whatever I find. Please accept my sincere apologies for being a day late with my thanks. Yesterday was a crazy day and I didn't get to read and respond to all my email. From the depths of my heart, I am very grateful for all the members of this great genealogical community. I struggle with all the rudeness in the world today and I often feel that rudeness rules - but the genealogical community proves me wrong. You are all a most kind and thoughtful bunch of folks!! Thanks for sharing you with me. Anita

Many of us who monitor the CATAWBA WEST web site enjoy sharing our bits of history with others who are working on information about their early family members, however we do expect to receive a "Thank You" just to let us know that you did in fact receive the message which we took time to send you the message. It really makes me feel good when someone sends me a "Thank You". I am thankful on this day expecially for the many friendships which I have cultivated merely from one simple "thank you". Hope each of you will have a "Blessed Thanksgiving and Christmas Season". You can not recognize this Santa this Christmas. He has removed his snow white whiskers because there was not enough requests for his presence to justify living with long hot whiskers through the summer months. The best of everything for you and Yours through this season. Pat Caswell Cloninger 1729 Brentwood Drive, Newton, North Carolina -----Original Message----- From: Anita C Aldrich [mailto:ladyfriendly@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:40 PM To: CATAWBA-WEST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CATAWBA-WEST] Elizabeth Starr Fry and Elizabeth Smith Now that I have determined for sure that the marriage record of Elizabeth Stark and Philip Fry is Elizabeth Starr, I'm wondering if there is a death and burial record. I checked the Catawba cemetary index and find an Elizabeth Fry buried in Old St. Paul's. Does anyone have a copy of the cemetary book or can you tell me if it's available in the Lincoln or Newton libraries? Since I've never visited the cemetary, maybe I'll go this weekend. Can anyone give me directions - from 321? Does anyone know the parents of this Elizabeth Smith - bound to Jacob Starr? I checked the bastardy bonds and guardian papers in Raleigh, but didn't find anything. >From the Court of Pleas & Quarter Sessions Lincoln County, North Carolina 1809 January-1812 October - Pg 53: July 1810 -- "Ordered that Elizabeth Smith about four years & six months old be bound unto Jacob Starr who is to give her one year schooling & $20.00 worth of suitable property when of age." Thanks!!! Anita ==== CATAWBA-WEST Mailing List ==== ==== CATAWBA-WEST Mailing List ==== Sharing info on the region West of the Catawba River, NC For further info, see http://www.rootsweb.com/~nccatawb/ Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page

I am a descendant of a different Jacob Frey who died in Loudoun County, VA in 1785. There were many other Freys/Frys in Loudoun County and also in Lancaster Co, PA. (and hundreds in the Rhine River area of Germany/France/Switzerland) Interestingly, Some of the ones in that area also married Lutzes. Johann Nicholas Frey (Revoltionary War soldier from Frederick Co, MD who moved to Loudoun County after the war) married Anna Margaretha Lutz (daughter of Jacob Lutz, "deceased") at the Evangilical Lutheran Church in Frederick Couny on Dec 7, 1773. Frederick County served as a way station for the Germans traveling between Lancaster County and North Carolina. The Revs. Stoever (Jr!... after his father died on the return voyage from Europe) and Krug also performed marriages in Lancaster County. Nicholas and Anna Margreth also had a daughter named Elizabeth, but the families tended to name almost all their children with the same names. It is a horrendous mess for later genealogists. I've seen Frey families in Alsace and Switzerland with 8-10 children in a family all with almost identical names as 10 other families in the same area. They seemed to favor a few Biblical names over any others. Gerry Parchman (descendant of Jacob Frey, thought to have arrived in Philadelphia from Alsace on the "Halifax" in 1754) Trenton, NJ

The Old St. Paul's cemetery book reads as follows: In Memory of Elizabeth Fry Was born April 2nd 1772 Died September 12th 1846 Age 74 Years 5 m and 3d Next to her there is another Fry In memory of J. Jacob Fry Who Departed This Life September 20, 1834 Aged 63 Years 2 Mo 7d. There is no indication of any relationship between the two. However he was about a year older than she. There is a will of a Jacob Lutz that mentions this couple. Catawba County Wills book 1 page 71 The Will of Jacob Lutz - 26 Dec 1835; of Lincoln co., NC. Of perfect mind and memory. To Wife, Mary Lutz,.................... To sons Elias, John and Jacob Lutz, deeds of land they have settled on valued at $500 each, Willed in trust to the Executors, land on which Elizabeth Frye now lives for her use until her death, at which time the land should be sold and monies arising divided equally amongst her children. This land with money he has paid for Jacob Frye's debts, estimated worth of $300. There are other legatees and more detail, but this seems to suffice to suggest that the above Elizabeth and Jacob were married and that she is not your Elizabeth. If you prefer to have the entire will I will scan it and send it directly to you as an attachment. Agnes C. On 11/24/04 10:00 AM, "CATAWBA-WEST-D-request@rootsweb.com" <CATAWBA-WEST-D-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > From: Anita C Aldrich <ladyfriendly@juno.com> > Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:40:04 -0500 > To: CATAWBA-WEST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Elizabeth Starr Fry and Elizabeth Smith > > Now that I have determined for sure that the marriage record of Elizabeth > Stark and Philip Fry is Elizabeth Starr, I'm wondering if there is a > death and burial record. I checked the Catawba cemetary index and find an > Elizabeth Fry buried in Old St. Paul's. Does anyone have a copy of the > cemetary book or can you tell me if it's available in the Lincoln or > Newton libraries? Since I've never visited the cemetary, maybe I'll go > this weekend. Can anyone give me directions - from 321? > > Does anyone know the parents of this Elizabeth Smith - bound to Jacob > Starr? I checked the bastardy bonds and guardian papers in Raleigh, but > didn't find anything. > > From the Court of Pleas & Quarter Sessions Lincoln County, North Carolina > 1809 January-1812 October - Pg 53: July 1810 -- "Ordered that > Elizabeth Smith about four years & six months old be bound unto Jacob > Starr who is to give her one year schooling & $20.00 worth of suitable > property when of age." > > Thanks!!! > > Anita >

Now that I have determined for sure that the marriage record of Elizabeth Stark and Philip Fry is Elizabeth Starr, I'm wondering if there is a death and burial record. I checked the Catawba cemetary index and find an Elizabeth Fry buried in Old St. Paul's. Does anyone have a copy of the cemetary book or can you tell me if it's available in the Lincoln or Newton libraries? Since I've never visited the cemetary, maybe I'll go this weekend. Can anyone give me directions - from 321? Does anyone know the parents of this Elizabeth Smith - bound to Jacob Starr? I checked the bastardy bonds and guardian papers in Raleigh, but didn't find anything. From the Court of Pleas & Quarter Sessions Lincoln County, North Carolina 1809 January-1812 October - Pg 53: July 1810 -- "Ordered that Elizabeth Smith about four years & six months old be bound unto Jacob Starr who is to give her one year schooling & $20.00 worth of suitable property when of age." Thanks!!! Anita

Help!!!!!! Looking for the parents of Betsy Caroline Williams (possibly Elizabeth) b. 15 Nov 1815-d. 24 Nov 1887 Catawba County. Betsy married David Eckart, s/o Simon amd Jemima Eckart (Eckard). David b. 21 Jan 1809-d. 9 July 1878 Catawba County. Both buried St. Peters Luth. Ch. Cem.Betsy is one of my many brick walls. Any info appreciated. Charles Lail Catawba County NC

I have lost touch with Berna Stillwell. Can anyone help me locate her, or another Stillwell descendant genelaolgis?. I am wanting to include in Catawba County Heritage Book II the information on Jacob Miller and Mary Ann Stillwell. I would appreciate any help. Anne

Thanks for all the help on the Taylors today, It has tied in some lines I have been working on. I am now trying to find who Henderson Moses/ Moses Henderson Taylor born April 3, 1828 died Feb 5, 1891 in Catawba County's father was??? I am trying to link the Burke County line of Taylors to this line. So far I can only get back to 1814 on the Burke County line and 1828 on the Catawba County line, I really think there is a link to both families, Lots of the Burke County line ended up in Maiden with the Catawba County line. So there has to be a connection somewhere. George M. Taylor married a Powell and his son Columbus Winfred Taylor born Oct 23, 1876 had a store in Maiden I have the picture of the store if any one wants it. He married Lillie Keener of Maiden and they had 6 children. Some of the Henderson Taylor line also had a store in Maiden in the 1900's. Anyone interested in these lines would love to work with you on them.

Can any one tell me who M. H. Taylor born 1828 and died 1891 , with wife Elizabeth born July 22, 1827 and died June 25, 1909 might be? They are all buried at Mt. Ruhama Cemetery. I also Have a M. P. Taylor from Maiden can anyone tell me what the initials M. P. stood for and who his father was? Thanks