-----Original Message----- > From: EnckAMac@aol.com [mailto:EnckAMac@aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:51 AM > To: CASTLE-GARDEN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: {not a subscriber} [CASTLE-GARDEN] partial passenger list > > > Partial passenger list of names from a page that I have for the SS. > Switzerland,leaving Antwerp arriving Oct 13, 1879 includeds > passengers 1-78. > Will send in sections:(all had US as destination) > Steerage passengers; > 1. J. DE BROME? ,31, male, occup unable to read, Belgium > 2. Mrs. DE BROME, age 32, F,Belgium > 3. Marie DE BRome. age 2 ,Belgium > 4. Rosalie DeBROM, age 0(there is the notation 3 in the column of > destination) > 5. Henry PEY,25, M, Shoemaker, Germany > 6. John SCHMITT, M, 40, carpenter, Germany > 7. Jos. FRANOWITCH, 20, M, Russia > 8. Gottl. GLDER, 27, M, Farmer, Russia > 9. Cath. GLDER, 23, F, Russia(has an x mark instead of checkmard > on column > line) > 10. Paul GLDR, 0,M, Russia > 11. Edward SCHULTE, 42, M, Miner, Germany > 12. Mrs. SCHULTE,, 24, F, Germany > 13.. Georg FLUG, 28, M, Weaver, Germany > 14.. Fred. WACKERBE,32 M, farmer, Germany > 15. Carol MEISEL, 36, F, Germany > 16. Sam PROSCHKI, 18, M, clerk, Germany > 17. Gal or Faledine SCHAEFER , 23, M, carpenter, Germany > 18. Chr. HOELM,20 M, farmer, Germany > 19. Mrs. SCHAEFER, age 26, F. Germany > 20. August FINGER, 33, M, Mason(the spelling on thislast name unsure) > 21. Emma FINSGER, 30, F, Germany > 22. Emilie FINGER, 7, F Germany > 23. August FINGER ,5, M, Germany > 24. Theodora FINGER, 3, F, Germany > 25 Carl BUCK,30., M, jeweler, Germany > 26. JOhn HOFFMAN, 34. cigar maker, Germany > 27. Marg HOFFMAN, 20, F, Germany > 28. Jean MAYER, 20, M, watchmaker, Germany > 29. M. BOSS, 30, M, Germany > 30. Christ. BOSS, 6, F, Germany > 31 Fritz BOSS, 4, M, Germany > 32 Albert BOSS, 2, M, Germany > 33. Antonia SPRONDEL, 20, F, Germany > 34. Corn. KOSH, 22, M, engraver, Germany > > transcribed AnnEnck >

Maybe this'll help: TheShipsList-L@rootsweb.com Paul -----Original Message----- From: kathy hamby [mailto:kathy556@webtv.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:47 AM To: CASTLE-GARDEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CASTLE-GARDEN] ships landing in Phila 1800-1885 hello everyone! could someone tell me if there is a list to join to find out about ships landing in the Phila port for 1880-1885? i am trying to find out where my gr,grgrandmother CATHERINE BRENNAN landed in 1882 and to see if my gggrandfather DANIEL was still alive. or maybe where they might have left Ireland from? they were all from County Tyrone. thank you for any help or hints kathy Researching; Dougherty, McLaughlin, Gordon, MacDonald , Brennan and Shephard in Canada, Ireland and PA Vollmer (Fulmer), Renz (Rentz), Brauch, Schumacher (Shoemaker), Muller, Blinn, Jung. Becker and Hofmann in Germany, Ohio and Indiana Baer, Paszotta and Carney (Craney) in Germany, Delaware, Indiana and Philadelphia ----------------------------------------- list "mom" for; Vollmer-L@rootsweb.com Paszotta-L@rootsweb.com Brauch-L@rootsweb.com Germans-to-Phila-L@rootsweb.com Blinn-L@rootsweb.com Hofmann-L@rootsweb.com GERMANS-OH-STARKCO-L@rootsweb.com ----------------------------------------- my family tree: http://community.webtv.net/kathy556/DoughertyGordonBaer ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

>From Germans to America 1875-1888 CD. Sandra in Oregon Passenger's Name: Curt Stemmler Age: 16 Gender: Male Occupation: Son Last Residence: Magdeburg in Prussia Date of Arrival: Aug 30, 1884 Final Destination: Iowa Ship's Name: Westphalia Manifest ID Number: 37856 Port of Embarkation: Hamburg & Havre Passenger's Name: Emilie Stemmler Age: 55 Gender: Female Occupation: Wife Last Residence: Magdeburg in Prussia Date of Arrival: Aug 30, 1884 Final Destination: Iowa Ship's Name: Westphalia Manifest ID Number: 37856 Port of Embarkation: Hamburg & Havre ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nannette Morgan" <BLUEBARRON1@msn.com> To: "Sandra Kieffer" <Kieffer@pioneer-net.com> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: Stemmler Sandra, Would you please look up Emillie/Emily Wiess and son Curt Stemler/Stemmler on Germans to Amer. Date of his birth 1868 Aug. Arrival to I think NYC about Aug.1883-84. Thanks so much! Nannette

In a message dated 7/11/02 2:03:01 AM Central Daylight Time, CASTLE-GARDEN-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > Best guess -- in German, S=E4ge is "saw", so a S=E4gemeister would be a m= > aster > sawyer (to use the old-fashioned English word). > > Thanks Steve! I'll try that. Though I have found Sagmeisters, none are the ones I look for.

Try Cyndis' List for passenger ships for Pa. She has a lot on her site. Cyndis' List of Genealogy Sites Ruth

Hello once again Glenn, I picked your particular Mary Becker for several reasons. Her age was reasonable to be married to Otto and to be Michael's sister. Michael's port of embarkation listed Hamburg, as did this Mary's. Your other Mary options were: 1) age 3 in 1888 2) age 40 in 1888 3) 21 in 1886 and married from Switzerland 4) embarked from Bremen as 17 yr old servant in 1886 5) wife aged 26 from Liverpool in 1882 Anyway, that's why I furnished you with the one I did. Sandra in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Rebholz" <eaglehawk757@msn.com> To: <Kieffer@pioneer-net.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:03 PM Subject: assuredness of this Mary BECKER With two Castle Garden requests, you may have zeroed in for me on two people that would go on to become paternal great-grandparents. OTTO ESCHE: Arrived 3Apr1878 aboard HOLSATIA. Last residence: Saxony, Weimar, Eisenach. Age 25, occupation -- merchant. MICHAEL BECKER also aboard. There were two BECKER's aboard the POLARIA, MARY and ANNA. Ship arrived 15May1882. MARY could be OTTO's soon-to-be wife What thought processes did to say: "Best possible for your Mary". What are the odds that it can be another person ? Thanking you in advance Glenn Rebholz Charlottesville, VA

I checked Germans to America and Wuerttemberg Emigration Index CDs, and found nothing on your individuals. Wish the news was better. The Wuerttemberg Emigration Index CD is available through www.Ancestry.com for approximately $30. The Germans to America 1850-1874 & Germans to America 1875-1888 CDs are available thru the following link for approximately $60 each. http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/gtoa.html Sandra in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Mayo" <kvmayo@chartermi.net> To: <CASTLE-GARDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 6:05 AM Subject: [CASTLE-GARDEN] Castle Garden Look-up Perhaps you may be willing to look for the following arrivals during 1880-1884 at Castle Rock. OLE BENARD BOGERSEN; dob. 1861. He may have with him his wife (if married in Norway) ELISE, dob. abt 1847 and her daughter MARTHA. 1900 federal census shows him coming in 1884, however, other records seem to point to earlier years of 1881, 82, or 83. Abephew, MARTIN BORGERSEN, may have travelled with him also, or aat a different date within the same time period. What disks do you own? May I ask where I might purchase these? Thankks alot. Karen

As far as I know, Georg was traveling alone. There were no other Sagmeister's listed. Other people were traveling on the ship, of course, but there is no way I would be able to determine if he was acquainted with any of his fellow passengers. I don't know what the meaning of the name is. Perhaps some other lister is more versed in surname meanings. Sandra in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: <CAROLFASSNACHT@aol.com> To: <CASTLE-GARDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 6:09 PM Subject: [CASTLE-GARDEN] Re: CASTLE-GARDEN-D Digest V02 #132 Sandra- regarding Sagmeister. Thanks for the lookup! Did Georg come alone? Also, does anyone know an approximate meaning to the name Sagmeister? Does meister mean master? Is a "brewer" specifically a beer maker ?

I checked the Germans to America 1850-1874 CD. For 1864 and 1870 arrival dates, I found no given name matches. For 1867 arrival date, there was one match. Sandra in Oregon Passenger's Name: Friedrick Kruger Age: 20 Gender: Male Occupation: Farmer Last Residence: Germany Date of Arrival: Aug 12, 1867 Final Destination: United States Ship's Name: Weser Port of Embarkation: Bremen Port of Debarkation: New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen & Joyce Krueger" <akrueger@frontiernet.net> To: <Kieffer@pioneer-net.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:40 AM Subject: Look up please Hi Sandra Could you do a look up for my great grandfather? Your help would be greatly appreciated! Here is his info and a little family history of him. We have not been able to find out what town he is from. FAMILY HISTORY OF my great grandfather: "My great grandfather was Johann (John) Fredrieck Kruger, born 16 Aug. 1847. Birth place we have found on his census records are Posen or Preusen, Prussia and Prague. We haven't found out exactly where he was from. We have written to Prague and they don't have him listed. We have different dates as to when he came to USA: 1. in June 25th 1867 on his Naturalization paper, probably the most accurate. 2. in 1864 found in his obituary . 3. 1870 according to the 1900 census. 4. 1867 according to the 1910 and 1920 census.(same as No. 1) He became a naturalized USA citizen in 1883 – source is 1920 census and his second naturalization papers. Beginning with the 1880 census we find him in Barnesville, MN, USA. We have found him on the following censuses: 1. 1880 USA Federal census. 2. 1895 Minnesota State census. 3. 1900 USA Federal census. 4. 1905 Minnesota census. 5. 1910 USA Federal census. 6. 1920 USA Federal census. My grandmother, Elizabeth Moll/Krueger said he was from Luxemburg???. He lived on a farm in Clay County, Humboldt Township near Barnesville, MN, USA. He married Ernestine Wilhemina Deubner on 11-23-1885 in Barnesville, MN. Six children were born: John Friedrich, George Freidrich, Ida, Arthur and 2 infants died. John Fred Kruger died 3-18-1922 and is buried in the German Lutheran Cemetery, west of Barnesville, MN. Thank you Allen J. Krueger Canby, MN

I checked the Germans to America CD and found no given name matches for your Simonsen. I also tried a couple variants in spelling the surname. The only 1884 arrivals were quite far off in age (as well as no given name match). Sorry I couldn't help. Sandra in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard N. Simonsen" <simonsen@charter.net> To: "Kieffer, Sandra" <Kieffer@pioneer-net.com> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: Simonsen request I would appreciate any information you might be able to obtain reagrding my grandfather, Niels Christian Frands Simonsen who came to New York and passed through Castle Garden in 1884. According to his journal, he left Copenhagen in Octoer 1884 and arrived New York City and stayed at Castle Garden. He was Born 30 Jan 1871 in Aarhus, Denmark. He might have arrived in November since he left in October. Any help would be greatly apprciated. Richard Simonsen

Would that I could, Lorine, but I've had 4 eye surgeries which severly limit my ability to pore through microfilm. It's all I can do to read the computer screen a few hours a day. Sorry :( Ron > Since you brought it up <g> maybe I can take this opportunity > to ask for more help on Olive Tree Genealogy to transcribe > lists. It's easy, there's no sign-up procedure, no out-of- > pocket expenses for you (except the cost of ordering in > microfilm if needed) and you dont' have to commit to any number > of lists. I'm happy to have one from each person who is > interested in helping! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release Date: 7/10/02

On 11 Jul 2002 at 11:13, ron goldman wrote: > I'm sure someone, or many 'someones', loooooong after I'm > gone though, will eventually have all passenger lists extant > online to make this easier for future generations to We can only hope! :-)) And of course, the more volunteers transcribing records, the faster it will happen. Since you brought it up <g> maybe I can take this opportunity to ask for more help on Olive Tree Genealogy to transcribe lists. It's easy, there's no sign-up procedure, no out-of- pocket expenses for you (except the cost of ordering in microfilm if needed) and you dont' have to commit to any number of lists. I'm happy to have one from each person who is interested in helping! http://olivetreegenealogy.com/helpolive.shtml Lorine Lorine McGinnis Schulze -- * The Olive Tree Genealogy http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ * Past Voices:Letters Home http://pastvoices.com/ * USA Genealogy http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/usa_genealogy/ * My Family Branches http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~myfamilybranches/ otg@csolve.net or olivetreegen@netscape.net

You're right, of course. I got confused with "link to link to link, etc." <G> I'm sure someone, or many 'someones', loooooong after I'm gone though, will eventually have all passenger lists extant online to make this easier for future generations to access. Ron > > I absolutely agree. :-) However I didn't mention ISTG in my > > email. > > > > If you read my email again (which you've quoted below) I > > directed Kathy to my site, Olive Tree Genealogy. > > > > http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/ will take you to my > > section of ships passenger lists that I have online. (and links > > to ships passenger lists on other sites) > > > > I don't claim to have a complete listing of all ships either, > > but I do have search engines that search MOST sites on the > > Internet that have passenger lists. > > > > I figured Kathy might like a one-stop site to do her searching. > > It's fast and easy and if she comes up with nothing she can > > extend her search to offsite resources. > > > > Lorine --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release Date: 7/10/02

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorine McGinnis Schulze" <otg@csolve.net> To: <otg@csolve.net>; <CASTLE-GARDEN-L@rootsweb.com>; "ron goldman" <preshtek@gate.net> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 10:52 AM Subject: Re: ships landing in Phila 1800-1885 > > > On 11 Jul 2002 at 10:27, ron goldman wrote: > > > As good as ISTG is, it's not a 'complete' listing of 'all' ships > > which arrived at the port of Philadelphia within any given time > > frame, which, I believe, is what Kathy Hamby wanted. > > I absolutely agree. :-) However I didn't mention ISTG in my > email. > > If you read my email again (which you've quoted below) I > directed Kathy to my site, Olive Tree Genealogy. > > http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/ will take you to my > section of ships passenger lists that I have online. (and links > to ships passenger lists on other sites) > > I don't claim to have a complete listing of all ships either, > but I do have search engines that search MOST sites on the > Internet that have passenger lists. > > I figured Kathy might like a one-stop site to do her searching. > It's fast and easy and if she comes up with nothing she can > extend her search to offsite resources. > > Lorine > > > > > Ron > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lorine McGinnis Schulze" <otg@csolve.net> > > To: <CASTLE-GARDEN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:36 AM > > Subject: Re: [CASTLE-GARDEN] ships landing in Phila 1800-1885 > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10 Jul 2002 at 8:47, kathy hamby wrote: > > > > > > > hello everyone! could someone tell me if there is a list to > > > > join to find out about ships landing in the Phila port for > > > > 1880-1885? i am trying to find out where my gr,grgrandmother > > > > CATHERINE BRENNAN landed in 1882 and to see if my > > > > gggrandfather DANIEL was still alive. or maybe where they > > > > might have left Ireland from? they were all from County > > > > Tyrone. thank you for any help or hints kathy > > > > > > > > > Kathy > > > > > > Have you tried the search engines for most free Internet > > > passenger lists at > > > > > > http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/search_ships.shtml > > > > > > Scroll down to the yellow search boxes, and look for SEARCH PA > > > SHIPS. > > > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > Lorine > > > Lorine McGinnis Schulze > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release Date: 7/10/02 > > > > > > > > > Lorine McGinnis Schulze > -- > * The Olive Tree Genealogy > http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ > * Past Voices:Letters Home > http://pastvoices.com/ > * USA Genealogy > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/usa_genealogy/ > * My Family Branches > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~myfamilybranches/ > > otg@csolve.net or olivetreegen@netscape.net > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release Date: 7/10/02

On 11 Jul 2002 at 10:27, ron goldman wrote: > As good as ISTG is, it's not a 'complete' listing of 'all' ships > which arrived at the port of Philadelphia within any given time > frame, which, I believe, is what Kathy Hamby wanted. I absolutely agree. :-) However I didn't mention ISTG in my email. If you read my email again (which you've quoted below) I directed Kathy to my site, Olive Tree Genealogy. http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/ will take you to my section of ships passenger lists that I have online. (and links to ships passenger lists on other sites) I don't claim to have a complete listing of all ships either, but I do have search engines that search MOST sites on the Internet that have passenger lists. I figured Kathy might like a one-stop site to do her searching. It's fast and easy and if she comes up with nothing she can extend her search to offsite resources. Lorine > > Ron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lorine McGinnis Schulze" <otg@csolve.net> > To: <CASTLE-GARDEN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [CASTLE-GARDEN] ships landing in Phila 1800-1885 > > > > > > > > On 10 Jul 2002 at 8:47, kathy hamby wrote: > > > > > hello everyone! could someone tell me if there is a list to > > > join to find out about ships landing in the Phila port for > > > 1880-1885? i am trying to find out where my gr,grgrandmother > > > CATHERINE BRENNAN landed in 1882 and to see if my > > > gggrandfather DANIEL was still alive. or maybe where they > > > might have left Ireland from? they were all from County > > > Tyrone. thank you for any help or hints kathy > > > > > > Kathy > > > > Have you tried the search engines for most free Internet > > passenger lists at > > > > http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/search_ships.shtml > > > > Scroll down to the yellow search boxes, and look for SEARCH PA > > SHIPS. > > > > Good luck! > > > > Lorine > > Lorine McGinnis Schulze > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release Date: 7/10/02 > > > Lorine McGinnis Schulze -- * The Olive Tree Genealogy http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ * Past Voices:Letters Home http://pastvoices.com/ * USA Genealogy http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/usa_genealogy/ * My Family Branches http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~myfamilybranches/ otg@csolve.net or olivetreegen@netscape.net

As good as ISTG is, it's not a 'complete' listing of 'all' ships which arrived at the port of Philadelphia within any given time frame, which, I believe, is what Kathy Hamby wanted. I know that the NY Times had a 'Maritime News' section/page which listed 'all' ships arriving and departing from the Port of NY and I wonder if the Philadelphia Inquirer might not have had something similar. D---ed if I can remember where I got it, but I found at one of the sites online a complete listing for 'all' ships arriving in NY during 1899-1900 but couldn't find anything similar for the 1868-1881 time period. Of course this is only a list of arriving ships, not the passenger lists (though 'some' cabin class lists were also published in the NY Times), so one still needs to find the films for these ships' passenger lists at either FHL or NARA, an herculean task. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorine McGinnis Schulze" <otg@csolve.net> To: <CASTLE-GARDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [CASTLE-GARDEN] ships landing in Phila 1800-1885 > > > On 10 Jul 2002 at 8:47, kathy hamby wrote: > > > hello everyone! could someone tell me if there is a list to join > > to find out about ships landing in the Phila port for 1880-1885? > > i am trying to find out where my gr,grgrandmother CATHERINE > > BRENNAN landed in 1882 and to see if my gggrandfather DANIEL was > > still alive. or maybe where they might have left Ireland from? > > they were all from County Tyrone. thank you for any help or > > hints kathy > > > Kathy > > Have you tried the search engines for most free Internet > passenger lists at > > http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/search_ships.shtml > > Scroll down to the yellow search boxes, and look for SEARCH PA > SHIPS. > > Good luck! > > Lorine > Lorine McGinnis Schulze --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release Date: 7/10/02

On 10 Jul 2002 at 8:47, kathy hamby wrote: > hello everyone! could someone tell me if there is a list to join > to find out about ships landing in the Phila port for 1880-1885? > i am trying to find out where my gr,grgrandmother CATHERINE > BRENNAN landed in 1882 and to see if my gggrandfather DANIEL was > still alive. or maybe where they might have left Ireland from? > they were all from County Tyrone. thank you for any help or > hints kathy Kathy Have you tried the search engines for most free Internet passenger lists at http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/search_ships.shtml Scroll down to the yellow search boxes, and look for SEARCH PA SHIPS. Good luck! Lorine Lorine McGinnis Schulze -- * The Olive Tree Genealogy http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ * Past Voices:Letters Home http://pastvoices.com/ * USA Genealogy http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/usa_genealogy/ * My Family Branches http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~myfamilybranches/ otg@csolve.net or olivetreegen@netscape.net

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At 09:09 PM 7/9/02 EDT, you wrote: >Sandra- regarding Sagmeister. Thanks for the lookup! Did Georg come alone? >Also, does anyone know an approximate meaning to the name Sagmeister? Does >meister mean master? Is a "brewer" specifically a beer maker ? Best guess -- in German, Säge is "saw", so a Sägemeister would be a master sawyer (to use the old-fashioned English word). Steve Troy in Maryland

hello everyone! could someone tell me if there is a list to join to find out about ships landing in the Phila port for 1880-1885? i am trying to find out where my gr,grgrandmother CATHERINE BRENNAN landed in 1882 and to see if my gggrandfather DANIEL was still alive. or maybe where they might have left Ireland from? they were all from County Tyrone. thank you for any help or hints kathy Researching; Dougherty, McLaughlin, Gordon, MacDonald , Brennan and Shephard in Canada, Ireland and PA Vollmer (Fulmer), Renz (Rentz), Brauch, Schumacher (Shoemaker), Muller, Blinn, Jung. Becker and Hofmann in Germany, Ohio and Indiana Baer, Paszotta and Carney (Craney) in Germany, Delaware, Indiana and Philadelphia ----------------------------------------- list "mom" for; Vollmer-L@rootsweb.com Paszotta-L@rootsweb.com Brauch-L@rootsweb.com Germans-to-Phila-L@rootsweb.com Blinn-L@rootsweb.com Hofmann-L@rootsweb.com GERMANS-OH-STARKCO-L@rootsweb.com ----------------------------------------- my family tree: http://community.webtv.net/kathy556/DoughertyGordonBaer