On 2/27/2008, in reply to my posting of 2/25/08 ("Joseph2 Carpenter of Warwick, R.I., and Musketa Cove, L.I."), John L. Carpenter writes: << Joseph2 Carpenter was born about 1638, probably at Providence Plantation (not 1635, in England), what is this based on what Source? >> _______________________ John, It is a conclusion based mainly on the following: (1) a rejection of the assumption that, because Joseph2 witnessed a deed in 1656, he must have been an adult at the time and thus born about 1635; and (2) a 1664 deposition in which Joseph Carpenter reports his age as 26. English common law entitled a child of fourteen (the _age of discretion_) to choose a guardian, testify in court, bequeath personal property in a will, indenture oneself without parental consent--and witness documents (see William Blackstone, _Commentaries on The Laws of England_, 4 vols. [Oxford, 1765-1769], vol. 1, ch. 17, online at _www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/blackstone/bk1ch17.htm_ (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/blackstone/bk1ch17.htm) ). The deposition is published in _Harris Papers_, Collections of the Rhode Island Historical Society, vol. 10 (Providence, 1902), 72-73. Most of the above information is presented in my previous posting's first paragraph, which ends with the following: "For a detailed discussion of this and related issues—the immigration of William1 Carpenter of Providence (ca. 1636, as a single man) and his marriage to Elizabeth Arnold (ca. 1637, probably at Providence)—see _The New England Historical and Genealogical Register_ 159:67–68." Included in that discussion is additional evidence--that William1 Carpenter of Providence did not arrive in New England with his wife and her family in 1635 and had not known them in England--lending support to the conclusion relating to Joseph's approximate year (and probable place) of birth. As it happens, John, near the bottom of the "Descendants of William #1 Carpenter" page of your website you have posted most of the contents of my e-mail message to this list, dated 3 Feb. 2002, which presents essentially the same information (both that above and below). But for your convenience and that of other interested parties, here's an excerpt of the _Register_ article, copied and pasted from my typescript of it (the footnote numbers are actually 58-65): APPENDIX 2: THE MARRIAGE AND IMMIGRATION OF WILLIAM1 CARPENTER OF PROVIDENCE Since first asserted in 1901, it has become dogma that the marriage of William Carpenter of Providence to William1 and Christian (Peak) Arnold’s daughter Elizabeth occurred in England and that the nascent Carpenter family (including son Joseph) came to Massachusetts with the Arnolds,_[1]_ (#_ftn1) who arrived on 24 June 1635._[2]_ (#_ftn2) There are several reasons to doubt that Carpenter had any contact with the Arnolds in England, however. First, his probable former home of Amesbury, Wiltshire, and that of the Arnolds, at Ilchester, Somersetshire, are more than forty miles apart._[3]_ (#_ftn3) “ [H]oping to assist further research,” Elisha Arnold (1935) introduces the 1606 marriage of Richard Carpenter and Susanna Trevelian, recorded at Nettlecombe, Somerset (seventy plus miles from Amesbury), as “seem[ing] to connect in some way with a John and Richard at Salisbury, 7 miles from Amesbury.”_[4]_ (#_ftn4) So as to put William Carpenter and Elizabeth Arnold in close proximity in England, overzealous researchers have converted this item into the now frequently seen (online) assertions that Richard and Susanna (Trevelian) Carpenter were Providence William’s parents and that Richard died at Ilchester in 1625. Trevelian’s husband, however, died at Loxhore, Devonshire, in 1627 and left neither a son William nor a daughter Frideswide (see note 49)._[5]_ (#_ftn5) The Richard Carpenter buried at Amesbury, 21 September 1625, is far more likely to have been William’s father than one said to have died at Ilchester that year._[6]_ (#_ftn6) A second reason for skepticism as to Carpenter-Arnold contact in England is that while William1 Arnold--like William1 Carpenter, an original Providence proprietor--was granted a house-lot at Hingham, Massachusetts, on 18 September 1635, William1 Carpenter was not._[7]_ (#_ftn7) Had the latter man already married Elizabeth Arnold and immigrated with her family, he, too, almost certainly would have become a Hingham proprietor; the town’s records fail altogether to mention him, however. William1 Carpenter first appears in New England records at Providence, no earlier than mid 1637, under “Agrements & orders the second year of ye Plantation” (begun at Seekonk in the spring of 1636 and relocated to present-day Providence that summer)._[8]_ (#_ftn8) [Reasons three and four pertain to Joseph2's approximate birth year (see this message's first paragraph).] ____________________________________ _[1]_ (#_ftnref1) See, for example, Daniel Carpenter, _Carpenter Family at Providence_ [note 9], 8-9, 30, 31; Elisha Stephen Arnold, _The Arnold Memorial: William Arnold of Providence and Pawtuxet, 1587-1675 . . . _ (Rutland, Vt.: Tuttle Publishing Co., 1935), 9, 52; Mildred Mosher Chamberlain, “Early Rhode Island Settlers,” _Rhode Island Roots_ 13 (1987):75. _[2]_ (#_ftnref2) Edwin Hubbard, “Early Records of the Arnold Family,” _Register_ 33 (1879):428. _[3]_ (#_ftnref3) See _Early Records of Providence_ [note 12], 5:323; Edson Salisbury Jones, “The Parentage of William Arnold and Thomas Arnold of Providence, R.I.,” _Register_ 69 (1915):66-68. _[4]_ (#_ftnref4) Arnold, _Arnold Memorial_ [note 58], 35. _[5]_ (#_ftnref5) Charles William Boase, ed., _Registrum Collegii Exoniensis: Register of . . . Exeter College, Oxford_ (Oxford: Oxford Historical Society, 1894), 86; Frederick Brown, _Abstracts of Somersetshire Wills, etc_., Frederick Arthur Crisp, transcriber, 6 vols. (London: the transcriber, 1887-90), 2:109-10. _[6]_ (#_ftnref6) See Amesbury Parish Register, vol. 1, unpaged; Daniel Carpenter, _Carpenter Family at Providence_ [note 9], 8n. On Amesbury’s eastern border is the parish of Newton Toney, where on 7 August 1603 a Richard Carpenter married Alice Knight and another Richard Carpenter married Ann Kent on 31 October 1603 (Newton Toney Parish Register, unpaged [FHL 1,279,336, item 13]). The latter man died at Newton Toney in 1614 (ibid.; Archdeaconry Court of Sarum, Reg. 8, fol. 226 [FHL 0,994,489, item 1]); the only Newton Toney record surely of the former is that of his marriage. Among a dozen or so legatees named in the 1599 will of Robert Carpenter of Newton Toney is Richard Carpenter of “Aymsbury” (relationship not stated), quite possibly the man of that name who married Alice Knight (see Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 93 Kidd, fol. 47 [FHL 0,092,005]). Evidence of this or of the couple’s being Providence William’s parents is not found, however. The apparent family connection between Robert Carpenter of Newton Toney and Richard Carpenter of Amesbury nevertheless tends to diminish further the likelihood that the latter was the son of Robert Carpenter of Marden (see Appendix 1, paragraph 3, above). (The author was alerted to the above-cited marriage and probate records and their potential implications by John R. Carpenter. While his CD unfortunately omits any qualifying language in presenting Alice Knight as the wife of Richard of Amesbury and mother of William1 of Providence [it also gives her an unsupported Sussex origin], he informally acknowledges that this is not confirmed [see _Encyclopedia of Carpenters_ (note 51), file 91sd, no. 92].) _[7]_ (#_ftnref7) Hubbard, “Early Records of the Arnold Family” [note 59], _Register_ 33:428; Bartlett, _Records of the Colony of Rhode Island_ [note 6], 1:19-20; Glenn W. LaFantasie, _The Correspondence of Roger Williams, Volume 1, 1629-1653_ (Providence, R.I.: Rhode Island Historical Society, 1988), 55 notes 2, 3; Daniel Carpenter, _Carpenter Family at Providence_ [note 9], 13-16; Hingham Book of Possessions, 1:29v (“Hingham Proprietors Grants of Land, 1635-1677,” microfiches 13-18 on _Massachusetts Vital Records, Hingham 1635-1900_ [Oxford, Mass.: Holbrook Research Institute, 1990], microfiche 13). _[8]_ (#_ftnref8) See _Early Records of Providence_ [note 12], 1:3; Howard M. Chapin, _Documentary History of Rhode Island_, 2 vols. (Providence, R.I.: Preston & Rounds, 1916-19), 1:42-43. The complete citation for this is Eugene Cole Zubrinsky, "Abiah3 Carpenter of Warwick, Rhode Island, and His Family: With Additional Material Concerning William1 Carpenter of Providence, Rhode Island, and William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth, Massachusetts," _The New England Historical and Genealogical Register_ 159(2005):55-68, at 67-68. 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