Dear Robin, Replies in CAPS below. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Robin Carpenter wrote: > > Hi John: > Thanks for the info responding to my posting re John's 1738 Will. Not > surprisingly, your additional info prompts me to several further comments > and questions. These are all matters of detail, and describing it all may > seem tedious...but I'm hoping that with specificity it'll be "easier" to > follow the earlier mentions etc. Here goes: > 1. Interesting that your birth dates table shown under "Family #518" THERE WERE AT LEAST TWO SOLOMON CARPENTERS COMING IN GOSHEN AT THIS TIME. MORE DETAIL INFORMATION NEEDED. LIKE WILLS! > pretty nearly follows my interpretation (from the will) of birth sequence of > John #24's children. The only major exception is my interpretation would > put Solomon up at #2 position. I note that you have Solomon's birth range > "1690/1712." I have seen assertions of this Solomon as one of the earliest > settlers of Goshen; in such case he would be an adult by 1714, or 1720 at > the latest. Wouldn't this make Solomon's latest plausible birth year would > be 1693, or maybe 1699. Of course, this revised boundary could still have > him halfway down the sequence of John's kids--just as your table has it. > 2. Who is the "John" shown in your table as a son of our subject John? SEE: INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:12755 - ---------------------------------------------- Name:John CARPENTER 3rd Sex:M ID No: Birth:Abt 1685 Place:Jamacia,Queens,Long Island Chr: 1704 Place:Jamacia,,Long Island Marr:Abt 1719 Spouse:Ruth-12715 Marr: 1735 Spouse:Ruth COE-12756 Marr: Spouse: Death:Abt 1755 Place:Goshen,Orange,NY Burial: Place: Father:John CARPENTER Jr. Capt.-12521 Mother:Mary RHODES-1402 Notes -------------------------------------------------------- !Number 74 in the Carpenter Memorial. Page 61. Family is number 42 on page 82. He resided at Goshen, NY. He was called John the Sheriff, to distinguish him from others by the name of John. He served as sheriff for the county of Orange in NY at one time. After he died, his wife, Ruth married a Thurston. and probably kept the records of her family. He bought land of his father in 1704 or 1705. He exchanged land in 1706 and sold it to his brother Joseph in 1714, a 20 acre lot. In the history of Orange County, we find that on July 10, 1721, John Everett, John Carpenter 2d., and John Carpenter 3d. Jr., and others gave a deed of land in trust to lay out a Presbyterian church, cemetery, parsonage and streets, and in all about 140 acres. In 1895, the Presbyterian church celebrated its 175 year. The name of Carpenter in Goshen since 1721 has appeared to be very numerous. !Per page 83, "Increase was executor of his father's (John) will of May 1, 1738, and settled his estate." Children were born into the 1750s per the Carpenter Memorial. He married Ruth Coe in 1735, but children are listed to him born about 1720. This indicates another marriage. Whoever were the first settlers of Goshen, NY, it is beyond all question that this John (#74) and his brother, Solomon (#75), the grandsons of John (#17), were among the first. !A Patriot, served in Dutchess County Militia Associated Exempts. !SEE: Roberts, New York in the REVOLUTION AS COLONY AND STATE. !RECORDS: All the following from Hempstead Town Records of LI, NY. Vol. VI - John Carpenter reference. Some references may be his sons or another John Carpenter: 1773 (no date) ear marks Nov 6, 1801 mentioned in deed between George Mitchell and Singleton Mitchell referencing his property line. Submitted by Phoebe Cortesis of CA via E-Mail on 6-8-98. END > ("3. John CARPENTER 3rd-12755 Abt 1685/1687") This all new to > me, and clearly not mentioned in the Will. One thing that is not at all > ambiguous in the Will is that there are exactly 9 offspring. > 3. Re that same table overall, where do the birth dates come from? OTHER THAN PHOEBE, THEY ARE EDUCATED GUESSES OR FROM THE CARPENTER MEMORIAL. > (Is all this table from the "New England Marriages Prior to 1700" that is NO. SEE THE BOOK CALLED "NEW ENGLAND MARRIAGES PRIOR TO 1700" IT LISTS "CARPENTER, JOHN (BORN ABT 1658- DIED 1732) MARRIED MARY RHODES?, DAUGHTER OF JOHN (RHODES); MARRIED OR RECORDED ON 9 FEB 1680; IN JAMAICA, LI AND /WEYMOUTH/ATTLEBORO. > cited in the short paragraph just above the table, or "Colonial Families," > or some other source?) > 4. Regarding that same paragraph(*), can you interpret the info for > me? (*)--"PER NEW ENGLAND MARRIAGES PRIOR TO 1700; JOHN (1658ABT-1732) & > MARY RHODES?, DAU JOHN; 9 FEB 1680; JAMAICA, LI/WEYMOUTH/ATTLEBORO. SEE: > Colonial Families of Long Island by Seversmith." I get the part of John's b > and d dates, and I get that someone (who?) believes but is unsure wife Mary > was a Rhodes. But I don't understand what is "DAU JOHN." Also, does the > reference to "Colonial Families..." mean that the author of "New England COLONIAL FAMILIES SHOULD BE A SIDE NOTE. > Marriages..." refers to "Colonial Families..." or is Colonial Familes a side > note added in your synopsis? COLONIAL FAMILIES SHOULD BE A SIDE NOTE. > 5. The summary paragraph describing the 1732 Will should include THE FOLLOWING WAS QUOTED WITH VARIATION FROM THE CARPENTER MEMORIAL: !Number 24 in the Carpenter Memorial. Page 50. Family is number 13 on page 61. He resided at Jamaica, LI. His will was dated 10 Jun 1732 and proved 30 Jul 1732. His will names his wife Mary, sons Nehemiah, John and Solomon of Goshen to whom he gives his musket, sword, etc. Daughters Mary, Hannah, Susanna, and Phebe. Also mentioned was Increase who with Nehemiah were executors to the will of their father. He took the oath as Captain of Troops, Nov. 22, 1703 at Jamaica. Of Huntington, RI. > mention of Joseph. He is cited in the Will three times. > 6. Of course you are right in that it is "still in question" as to > which of John's wives was mother to which of the offspring. Still in > question today, and probably to will remain in question forever. So my > interpretation of maternity from the Will is necessarily subjective and > (most assuredly) unauthoritative. > But just to be a gadfly about my interpretation, I note that the > birthdates given in your table of "Family #518" have daughter Mary (b. "Abt > 1692") the first of the girls and before Nehemiah. Given that John's 2nd > wife was named Mary, this small item would seem at least a tiny hint that > dau Mary was a child of mother Mary. And if so, then all the other girls, THE CHILDREN LISTING IS IN THE ORDER GIVEN IN THE CARPENTER MEMORIAL. > too. And tying back to my earlier interpretation of the Will, note that > there are three separate citations of "Joseph Increase & Nehemiah." All > three citations are (a) exactly in that order, (b) inheriting shares equal > to each other, (c) twice cited in same breath with the sisters, and (d) > never mentioned together with or sharing items regarding John and Solomon. > To me, that's a scenario of high (albeit unproven) liklihood that these 6 > children were born to Mary, with John and Solomon born to Abigail. (Are you > persuaded of the liklihood, or no?) IF MARY RHODES (M. 9 Feb 1680) MARRIED AFTER HER SISTER ABIGAIL THEN YES. > 7. Finally, I am surprised to learn of a known and published > marriage between John Carpenter and Mary Rhodes, Feb 9, 1680. "Surprised" > only because I would have expected a known and published marriage to have > appeared in works of ABC, RGC, and whoever authored "Ancestors & Descendants > of Col Solomon Carpenter." (Who did author that?). BEGIN THE ANCESTRY AND DESCENDANTS OF COL. SOLOMON CARPENTER OF GOSHEN, NEW YORK RESEARCHED, COMPILED & ISSUED BY THE CARPENTER FAMILY ASSN. LIMITED EDITION Printed in 1974 PUBLISHER: THE NEWS-JOURNAL P.O. Box 398 (address no longer valid) Machias, Maine 04654 PREFACE My pleasure in being able to produce this booklet stems from many reasons and I welcome an opportunity to comment upon its contents. ... ROSEMARY E. BACHELOR Publisher, Editor, The News - Journal -- A Historical The Carpenter News Journal and Genealogical Publishing The Batchelor News Journal Firm The Rice News-Journal 14 Broadway, Machias, Maine 04654 END Well, I've been > surprised by facts before, and I'll be surprised again. But what's the > source of this John/Mary marriage info? NEW ENGLAND MARRIAGES PRIOR TO 1700 is by Clarence Almon Torrey (974.0 v25t) GENEALOGICAL PUBLISHING CO., INC. Baltimore, MD 1985. His sources are too many to cite here. NEHGS and GPC had cooperated on producing this work. The printed version is like a index to the microfilmed version which cites sources with the marriage. > Sorry to go on at such length. Look forward to hearing back. > Robin C.