Gill: My data on John Carpenter also clearly stipulated that Sir John Carpenter had a father John. Does this mean the 1303 John and the 1323 John were father and son? The revealation that the 1323 John had himself two John sons reminded me of a document I found that might be them. It is somewhat entertaining. From the Patent Rolls for May 6, 1360 at Woodstock. “On complaint by John by John, abbot of Gerondon, that….John le Carpenter and John his brother, William Smyth of Gerondon and others, broke his close, gates, chests, doors and windows of his house at Gerondon co. Leicester, imprisoned him, carried away his goods and fished in his stews there and carried away fish.” Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter