Dear Bruce, When I compile data, I sometimes don't check definitions. You are right that chaundler does not mean goldsmith. This was an error on my part. Having discussions and questions posed helps put the puzzle together. Per Webster's New Universal UNABRIDGED Dictionary (based on the Random House Dictionary of the English language 1996 by Barnes & Noble); There are three definitions for the word Chandler (page 344) or Chaundelier ... The most common TODAY; "1) a person who makes or sells candles and sometimes other items of tallow or wax, as soap." (I.E. related to candles and their holders) A common definition used in the early 1700's and into the early 1800s; "2) a dealer or trader in supplies, provisions, etc. of a specialized type: a ship chandler." The more obscure definition; "3) a retailer of provisions, groceries, etc." Word Root history "[1275-1325; ME chandeler candlestick, maker or seller of candles < AF, OF chandelier, lit., some one or something connected with candles, equiv. to chandelle CANDLE + -ier -IER2]" Since earlier works used the term in the definition of their times and local and we should look at the sources of data. Examples: "Bunise's various 19th century works; "Life of Lord George Carpenter" printed 1736; Play fair's Family Antiquities." Logically, since the sources with in the 1700's into the 1800's we should use the definition used AT THAT TIME AND LOCAL. The definition of number two above would fit. "2) a dealer or trader in supplies, provisions, etc. of a specialized type: a ship chandler." Since Richard Carpenter was close to power because of wealth and had access (in the mid to late 1300s) in someway (due to nobility for example) to the King's Court, it is reasonable to assume that he was a trader (or broker in today's terms) in supplies or provisions. Fleet Street today in central London, England is the location of many newspaper offices. In the 1700's it was an area of Brokerages, as it had been for several hundred years. A Broker (from 1350-1400 ME broco(u)r)) in the 1700's was a middleman dealing with high end merchandise such as gold. (I can see how the relationship was formed between Chaundler and gold) Fleet Street in 1375-1425 derives its name from the ME Flete Strete, after a nearby stream. Thus in your last E-message where you quoted "the Close Rolls for Henry lV in 1412. "Memorandum of a mainprise body for body, made in chancery in November this year by John Bulloke `skynner', John Ledys `cordwaner', both of London, Richard Carpenter of `Fleetsreet' ..." Apparently by 1412 "of Fleetstreet" meant he represented someone or some group (like himself or some brokers). Since Fleet Street was known as a brokerage area from the late 1300's to the early 1900's, this makes sense. What is even more amazing is that the Richard Carpenter (who married Christina) in question died in 1395 and was buried in St.Martin Church,Outwich,London,England. None of Richard Carpenters known children is named Richard. His oldest son, John the elder inherited his father's wealth (1395) and later (in 1441) his younger brother's wealth (he was John the younger - The Noted Town Clerk of London). Is this a mystery or did John the elder assume his father's name when he assumed the business? ANOTHER QUESTION! Keep up the good work and research! Your Truly, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > According to An Encyclopedia of London, London, 1970, > chaundelers and chandlers were the same and engaged in large part in candle > manufacture. They were organized into a guild and made their wares around > 1400 in Bishopsgate in London (an interesting fact in itself). > There is no connection with gold. The goldsmiths were an entirely different > trade with their own guild. > Sincerely, > Bruce E. Carpenter