John: in Town Clerk John's 1441 will he refers to his brother Robert's son Richard thusly, "Also I give and bequelth to my kinsman Richard, son of my brother Robert,for the increase of his estate when he shall arrive at full age and mature discretion...." Thus those 1390s dates for Roberts children are impossible. Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter -----Original Message----- From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001@home.com> To: Bruce E. Carpenter <carp@whidbey.com> Cc: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com <CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com>; John L. Carpenter <familysearcher@mailcity.com>; Richard L. Carpenter <adoptahighway1@home.com>; Terry Lee Carpenter <diluvius@flash.net> Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Chaundelers and Chandlers #2 >Dear Bruce, > >Continuing from the end of the last E-message ... > >If Richard Carpenter -86 (who married Christina) died in 1395, who was >the Richard Carpenter noted in the November 1412 record? > >In searching my records I have ... > > > +---¦Richard CARPENTER-86 >Robert CARPENTER-14719 ¦ ¦Abt 1335 >Abt 1368 ----------¦ ¦of London,Middlesex,England >of London,Middlesex,England ¦ MRIN:18 > --SPOUSE-- MRIN:5247 +---¦Christina-87 > ¦Abt 1335/1337 > ¦of London,Middlesex,England > --CHILDREN-- >1. Alexander CARPENTER-23395 Abt 1389 >2. Joan CARPENTER-14721 Abt 1390 >3. Richard CARPENTER-4675 1392 >4. Katherine CARPENTER-14722 Abt 1395 >5. Henry CARPENTER-16314 Abt 1395 > >The notes for the Richard - 4675 above list: >A Goldsmith by trade. In 1410, City of London Records indicate >a Richard Carpenter and Johannes Norman, goldsmiths (Chaundelers?) >sponsoring an orphan. Apparently this of one of many encouraged by this >Robber's Grand-Uncle John Carpenter, the younger, the noted town clerk >of London. >SEE: "THE CITY OF LONDON SCHOOL" By A. E. Douglas-Smith, 2nd Edition, >1965, Oxford. The City of London School for the Poor was endowed by >this Richard's uncle, named John or John the younger. On page 2 of the >above, it lists that "Richard (gfather) was a chandler living in >Billiter Lane in 1381. >It also mentions on page 3, that a son named Robert Carpenter, "of whom >nothing is known except that he had a son (named) Richard and two >daughters (named) Joan and Katherine." This is known by John the >younger's will. Other children may have been buried in the graveyard of >the Church of St. Martin. >end notes. > >This Richard (noted above) was born in 1392 and would have been about >age 22 in November of 1412. Currently, until more data comes in, this >was probably the Richard "of Fleetstreet" in 1412. > >While I am uncomfortable with this, it is logical. In 1410 this Richard >Carpenter was known as a "goldsmith." But then in 1412 he was known as >"of Fleetstreet." Could he have been a "gold chandler" or a broker for >goldsmiths? > >What do you think? > >John R. Carpenter >La Mesa, CA