CARPENTER-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Subject: > > CARPENTER-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 247 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Maurice Carpenter ["Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey] > #2 John H. Carpenter [Sissy1226@aol.com] > #3 Re: Carpenter Genealogy [" John L. Carpenter" <jcarp45@top.] > #4 Gloucester's Tenants ["Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey] > #5 drivel ["Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey] > #6 RE: When uninterested - Delete! [Ancestor1@aol.com] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from CARPENTER-D, send a message to > > CARPENTER-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Maurice Carpenter > Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:35:42 -0700 > From: "Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey.com> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > Maurice Carpenter, thought to be born in Ypres in abt. 1280, and the thought > to be father of a Jean le Carpenter born abt. 1304 in France who is alleged > to have died aft. at Dilwyn in Herefordshire, can be demonstrated to be > wholly implausible. There was actually a Carpenter (Carpentier) family who > resided in Ypres at the time.Their names, social status and professions are > extant to be studied. A son of Maurice Carpenter, Pierre Carpentier was a > textile manufacturer at the time (drapier a Ypres). A relative, Lippin le > Carpentier, was a burgomaster of the city itself, an important position to > be sure, and an indication of the prestige and wealth the Ypres Carpenters > enjoyed. Pierre had to be a grown man in order to manage a family and a > textile making business. A safe estimate puts his birth at least when the > birth of Maurice was in 1280. In actuality Maurice had to be born at least > near 1250, or much earlier. Another objection to Maurice is a common sense > one. Why would a fifty-year-old, or much older man, be doing living in > England in 1300, with a new family, while the rest of his old family stayed > behind? The origins of the Maurice connection to Carpenter history began > when in 1912 Edward Carpenter included a Maurice Carpenter or Carpendar from > Gloucester in his book Samuel Carpenter and His Descendants. This Maurice > comes from a notation in a Heralds Visitation; he is just a name with no > historical connections. I have never seen the name Maurice Carpenter in the > hundreds of books that I have looked through. I am sure the two Maurices > lived, but they are hardly the same people. My own source for Ypres > Carpentiers is, Histoire Industrie Drapiere Flandre, Bruxelles, 1924. > > Bruce Carpenter > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: John H. Carpenter > Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:13:03 EDT > From: Sissy1226@aol.com > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > I am looking for any information reguarding John H. Carpenter, he married > Tressey Tansley. They had 3 children, John, James and Harriet. I know they > came over from Mansfield, England and arrived Ellis Island in 1909. John H. > was the soccer coach for Lehigh University, located in Bethlehem, PA. Anyone > with information, I would greatly appreciate it. > > Thank you > Sissy, a decendant of the Carpenters > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Carpenter Genealogy > Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:20:55 -0400 > From: " John L. Carpenter" <jcarp45@top.monad.net> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > ---- > >6. Obadiah Carpenter, b 22 Jun 1782 Keene, NH, d. 15 Sep 1808, md. 21 Sep > >1808 Nancy MORSE > >7. George Wasingotn Carpenter, b 19 Jan 1815, d. 13 Apr 1897, md.Mary > HILDRETH > >8. Mary Elizabeth Carpenter, b. 18 Dec 1850 Dalton, NH, d. 27 Jun 1903 > >Littleton, NH., md. Bradford KINNE > > > >Do you have any information on any of these families? Thank you for your > >time. > >Sincerely, > >Wendy L. Miller-Kelly > >Wndy who are these children related to ? > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Gloucester's Tenants > Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:27:25 -0700 > From: "Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey.com> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > The political tensions of the late 1300s provide us with glimpse of the > London Carpenters and enough evidence to begin to define them as a family > group at this interesting but troubled juncture of English history. The > story begins with the opposition to King Richard II by three powerful > aristocrats, Richard Fitzalan earl of Arundel, Thomas Beauchamp earl of > Warwick and Thomas of Woodstock duke of Gloucester. Open conflict begins in > the late 1380s. Members of the Kings faction are impeached by Parliament by > the urging of the above three. The King retaliates against the supporters of > the three. In the midst of this we find Richard Carpenter and his sons John > and Robert harassed and arrested. The implication of this is that the > Carpenters must have held land from the three, and their economic activities > must have been intertwined. Ten years later in the late 1390s King Richard > II had his revenge on the three aristocrats. Arundel was executed, > Gloucester murdered and Beauchamp banished. John of Gaunt, the man behind > the scene in all of this, remains neutral until his son Henry Bolinbroke > finally deposes King Richard II and he himself becomes King Henry IV. This > sets the stage for the long War of Roses, the conflict between the Lancaster > and Yorkist claims to the throne, with the Carpenters naturally on the > Lancaster side. When the three above aristocrats had their estates > confiscated, the litigation for one of them happily lists the tenants. John > and Robert Carpenter appear as holding a good proportion of the land. The > document is extremely > Long and I will give portions of it. It is from the Calendar of > Inquisitions, document 298. > > Thomas duke of Gloucester had on the day of his forfeiture the manor of > Tarent Launston ..There are 2 carucates of land of 200 acres each .pasture > on le Doune for 400 sheep worth 6s. 8d. yearly in excess of their winter > keep, the shepherds wages and livery and grease for the sheep John Rauwe, > John Hayne, John Carpenter, Walter Russell, Robert Carpenter, John Chubbe, > Vincent Pynselond, Walter Serle, Thomas and John Russell, Rodger Trubbe, > John Rodger and John Roule, whole virgaters, each holding a messuage and 24 > acres of land, paying 4s. yearly and doing works worth 2s. yearly. > > The manor appears to have been in Dorcet. We can assume that the Carpenters > didnt live on the manor. This land was probably one of many of their > holdings. In the document mention is made of the kind of people who actually > managed the land for their absent landlords. The document describes various > uses the land was put to. Sheep were a detailed and special mention, but not > the only mentioned use. Unfortunately which tenant had the sheep is not > specified, although I suspect the Carpenters. > > Bruce E. Carpenter > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: drivel > Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:30:23 -0700 > From: "Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey.com> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > Dan: > A draper's drivel may be a carpenter's jewel. > BC > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Draper <dandraper@ionet.net> > To: Bruce E. Carpenter <carp@whidbey.com> > Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 10:10 AM > Subject: Re: Gloucester's Tenants > > >Bruce, > > > >Write a book! Don't bother us with this daily drivel! > > > >Dan Draper, Jr. > >Stillwater, Oklahoma > > > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: RE: When uninterested - Delete! > Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:04:36 EDT > From: Ancestor1@aol.com > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > Dear Dan: > > I debated over writing this and will probably be bombasted for doing so but > was that comment truly warranted? I have not been one of Bruce's fans and > have gone head-to-head with him in the past but I must admit I have to > respect a person (anyone) who puts that much work and determination into his > research. I believe that he may be using us as a "sounding board" for > discussing his research. Who better that other Carpenter researchers?? It > takes another genealogist to appreciate the work and the enthusiaism we feel > when we've made a "find"!! I realize that you (and others) may feel that > his work does not pertain to you and indeed it may not BUT there may come a > time when your own research brings you back to the period of time in > discussion today! I'm sure that anyone who's ancestral lines lead there > would be grateful to have available the information that Bruce (or any other > researcher) has found and examined. Most of us would not even have access to > those documents being discussed. May I suggest that those of you that are > uninterested merely use your delete button? (I'm sure we all recognize the > email address by now!) Thanks in advance for being understanding. A fellow > Carpenter researcher............ > > Patti > Clearwater, Florida