Dear Bruce, I am excited! I think you may have found data on Godwin (b. abt 1100) Carpenter's retirement location. As you know many of the nobility went into monasteries for their old age. I knew that Godwin went into a Monastery in Normandy (Per the Edwin Sellers book). "Gaufrido Carpentari" is the latin version of Godwin (Godefroy or Godefroid in French) Carpenter. This means Godwin lived to a ripe old age and probably died there! "... Origins in Normandy, from the Calendar of Documents Preserved in France, vol. 1, 1189-1199. "Charter of Jordan de Champern confirming to the canons regular.... Gaufrido Carpentari." This was for the Priory of St. Stephen in the Diocese of Bayeux. He is no earlier than the patronymic Carpenters in Carpentier's Histoire, but is from a primary source I have seen myself. I don't accept anything I haven't seem myself. BC" INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:16311 - ------------------------------------------------ Name:Godwin CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: Birth:Abt 1100 Place:of Melun,Seine-et-Marne,IDF,France Chr: Place:of,Suffolk,England Marr: Spouse:Unknown Father:William CARPENTER-28699 Mother: Notes ---------------------------------------------- !aka Godefroid or Godefroy in French, Godwin in Old English. !Per Raymond George Carpenter, American Genealogist: "In 1121 A.D. a Godwin Carpenter resided in Suffolk County, England." end partial notes. ********** I could not find "Sallop" or similar in the UK maps that I have. The change from 1272 to present has not reflected similar name or close variants for "Sallop.". ********** You indicate that the following Robert is the one you found circa 1253. Can you please show me the differences? Please provide how the data needs to be revised. I must have missed something, since I don't know what to revise. >INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:16310 > >--------------------------------------------- > > Name:Robert CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: > > Birth:Abt 1167 Place:of,Suffolk,England > > Chr: Place: > > Marr: Spouse:Unknown > >Father:Ralph OR Raulf CARPENTER-16308 Mother: > >Notes ------------------------------------------ > >!Robert or Robert Le Carpenter found in Suffolk Curia Regis Rolls in > >1212. He is believed to be the descendant of William the Carpenter, b.abt 1042. > >Found in the IGI as born abt 1167 in Huntingdon,C,England. What do you think of the Antrobus deed circa 1250 AD below? > >!SEE: Calendar of Antrobus Deeds before 1625, edited by R. B. Pugh in > >1947. Published by by the Wiltshire Archaeology & Natural History > >Society Records Branch. Submitted by Peter Goodhugh, 1992 of the > >Amesbury Society in Amesbury, Wiltshire, England. Page I, undated circa 1250 in black pencil. > >"Gift with warranty by Christine daughter of John de Ambresber' in her widowhood to Robert Kade for his homage and service of a messuage and curtilage lying between the messuage of Robert the carpenter and . . ." Robert the carpenter acts as a witness also. > >Page 5, dated 9 July 1321 mentions "Carpenter Street (in vico > >carpentarii) in Great Ambri'." (ie Amesbury, Wiltshire, England) > >Page 6, dated 18 Mar 1323 mentions "Gift with warranty by Stephen le > >carpenter of Winterbourn' to Henry Curteis of Ambresbur' of a tenement with a curtilage which he had in the town of Ambresbur' . . ." (ie town of Amesbury). > > > >Robert Carpenter appears to be some type of Relative to Christine listed above circa 1250 AD. Daughter in law? or ? Christina and Christine is close, I wonder and the relationship? > > > >You list several Carpenters, can you supply the source for each? > > I am still looking forward to your clarifications on the questions I asked. I really would like to know more! Your cousin on the Rehoboth Carpenter line, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA ************************************************************ Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > Number two is our boy, but dates do not match my > Curia Regis Rolls dates. Need to revise. > Number three is a trade carpenter. Number > one is a real head scratcher. I have seen your listing that Bishop > Melun was a patronymic Carpenter. You should check this. The Bishop > lived well before surnames. He is really not a patronymic > Melun, I think. He lived in Paris. Unless he was Robert le Carpentier de > Melun. > My understanding is that his genealogy is a complete question. He taught in > Paris > for 40 odd years. Hence Robert de Melun. I think you need to boot him. > By the way, long ago I ran across what might be the earliest example > of patronymic use of Carpenter, in my opinion. Origins in Normandy, from > the Calendar of Documents Preserved in France, vol. 1, 1189-1199. > "Charter of Jordan de Champern confirming to the canons regular.... Gaufrido > Carpentari." > This was for the Priory of St. Stephen in the Diocese of Bayeux. > He is no earlier than the patronymic Carpenters in Carpentier's Histoire, > but is from a primary source I have seen myself. I don't accept anything > I haven't seem myself. > BC > -----Original Message----- > From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001@home.com> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com <CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Sunday, October 24, 1999 5:30 PM > Subject: Re: Suffolk Robert > > >Dear Bruce, > > > >I have 3 Robert Carpenters in that time period. > > > >INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:28078 > >-------------------------------------------- > > Name:Robert CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: > > Birth:Abt 1150 Place:of,Hampshire,England > >Son of Robert Carpenter-200031 - Bishop Melun. > > > >INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:16310 > >--------------------------------------------- > > Name:Robert CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: > > Birth:Abt 1167 Place:of,Suffolk,England > > Chr: Place: > > Marr: Spouse:Unknown > >Father:Ralph OR Raulf CARPENTER-16308 Mother: > >Notes ------------------------------------------ > >!Robert or Robert Le Carpenter found in Suffolk Curia Regis Rolls in > >1212. He is believed to be the descendant of William the Carpenter, b. > >abt 1042. > >Found in the IGI as born abt 1167 in Huntingdon,C,England > > > >The paper on the early Curia Regis Rolls of 1212 lists him as above. > > > >INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:28082 > >------------------------------------------------- > > Name:Robert CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: > > Birth:Abt 1181 Place:Winchester,Hampshire,England > >Father:Robert CARPENTER-28078 Mother: > > > >!SEE: Calendar of Antrobus Deeds before 1625, edited by R. B. Pugh in > >1947. Published by by the Wiltshire Archaeology & Natural History > >Society Records Branch. Submitted by Peter Goodhugh, 1992 of the > >Amesbury Society in Amesbury, Wiltshire, England. Page I, undated circa > >1250 in black pencil. > >"Gift with warranty by Christine daughter of John de Ambresber' in her > >widowhood to Robert Kade for his homage and service of a messuage and > >curtilage lying between the messuage of Robert the carpenter and . . ." > >Robert the carpenter acts as a witness also. See also Robert Carpenter > >born about 1167. > >Page 5, dated 9 July 1321 mentions "Carpenter Street (in vico > >carpentarii) in Great Ambri'." (ie Amesbury, Wiltshire, England) > >Page 6, dated 18 Mar 1323 mentions "Gift with warranty by Stephen le > >carpenter of Winterbourn' to Henry Curteis of Ambresbur' of a tenement > >with a curtilage which he had in the town of Ambresbur' . . ." (ie town > >of Amesbury). > > > >Robert Carpenter appears to be some type of Relative to Christine listed > >above circa 1250 AD. Daughter in law? or ? Christina and Christine is > >close, I wonder and the relationship? > > > >You list several Carpenters, can you supply the source for each? > > > >I will check and see where "Sallop" is in England. > > > >Let us know the sources. Fascinating stuff! > > > >Your Rehoboth Cousin, > > > >John R. Carpenter > >La Mesa, CA > > > >Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > >> > >> I have meant to go through your early > >> data and compare your findings with mine. I > >> am beginning to see you have many > >> of the individuals I have encountered. For example you > >> have a Robert b. 1167 in Suffolk and a Curia Regis Rolls > >> notation for 1212. I haven't seen that,however I > >> found a Curia Regis Rolls notation for Robert Carpenter > >> married to Christina for 1253. The Suffolk Carpenters > >> seemed to me a distinct group i.e. that had capital > >> for land. There was a Thurston and a John of Butley Carpenter for > 1230-32. > >> All of the above might be descendants of Ralph Carpenter who is listed > for > >> land aquisition in both Norfolk and Suffolk for 1225-26. > >> In 1272 in Sallop, a Robert is noted as son of Radulphus. There was also > a > >> John son of Ralph > >> noted for Norfolk. > >> I question the 1212 date for Robert. Is there even Curia Regis Roll > >> data that early? Where was Sallop? > >> BC > >