Repeated by popular request! Subject: Part 2 by Tony Carpenter in the UK Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 20:09:12 -0700 From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001@home.com> Organization: @Home Network To: "CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com" <CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com> Dear Folks, Tony has a sense of "humour" ... TC- "Do you keep a troshin" is a local Norfolk saying. It comes from the days when the peasants spent their days picking up stones off the fields for the Farmer, It meant "do you keep a going". JRC- Keep on Trucking - 18 & 4 Wheeler version. "Keep Tromping" is another version popular at the turn of the century and was even in a popular song "Tromp Tromp Tromp!" TC- Here is another saying "Hold you hard" I had great fun with that one when I answered the Phone in the USA. have a guess at that. JRC- Anybody got a guess for that? JRC- My favorite English phrase is "Come on by and knock me up." It means come on by my house and knock on my door! Here is another few pages of Tony carpenter's material. ***************************************************** By Tony Carpenter in the UK Part 2 -----any family that has survived from the early days of history has this determination to bond. Why ask you do you want to find your ancestors and living relations, why are trying to contact each other does it give you a comfortable feeling of security to know there is many of us in this world left to progress the family forward through to many generations of the new Millennium. Man has been blessed with the urge to be creative it is a driving force that sets us apart from others in the animal kingdom. The human race has develop in all respects from this, The creation of the family as we no it today, to the conquest of outer space, comes from this driving force. When this urge is diminished as in some branches of a family they fade away from history, as will the human race when it losses the ability to be creative it will turn on its self and destroy all that has been constructed over the generations. I am happy and contented that my particular branch of the Carpenters is still branching out to occupy several generations to come and are blessed with the creative desire, and I hope that there are many others doing the same. A thousand years of one Family's history. What will be the consequence of this information on today's generation? Pride, shame, guilt, or an attempt to find the answer to the old age question "Who am I and why do I look and act in the way I do." Can genealogy explain these questions? How do we put it in a form that can be analysed so a conclusion can be reached? Can we rely on ancient documents and other records to give us an insight of our ancestors in a given period of time, or by studying the history of the period. We have to, as it is the only reference available to us, but we must always understand that all material is open to interpretation. The CARPENTER Family has been researched back to the 10th century and traced to the French family of Melun. There are many branches of the tree and some seventy thousand names are included in the database. This book is only looking at my line that has been researched by my late brother and I, working together for over fifteen years, plus associated branches of interest. I have decided that our work should now be recorded and distributed in the year of the millennium, a thousand years of one family. I will try to explain in plain English what effect it has had on my family and me. The name of Carpenter comes from the Crusading French Knight, the Viscount de Melun born about 1042. He was nicknamed "The Carpenter" "because of the weighty strokes of his battle axe in battle." The great strength and axe were associated with the carpenter's trade. "No weapon could [opponents' weapons that is] be found that could withstand the power of his strikes. The heaviness of his weapons resulted of him being feared in combats". Carpenters of the time must have been among the most "well built people" Let us look at this last paragraph "well built people". Today the family are still well built and strong, our average height is 5ft 10inches, Chest 44inches, inside leg measurement 29 1/2 inches, You must have the inside leg measurement to be a true Carpenter, a standing joke in the family. Where did this saying originate? I can remember my father saying it, and I have repeated it to my grandchildren. So can we surmise that physical attributes as well as family sayings can be passed down from generation to generation? At the age of seventy I can remember five generations of our family. I spent some time in Orlando Florida USA. The condominium complex we were living in was managed by a Carpenter, Evelyn Garrison. She remarked to me that I looked just like one of her uncles, she showed some old pictures and sure enough there was the Family Likeness including the white beard that I have. She introduced me to one of her grandchildren who was almost identical in appearance to one of my brother Denis's children. It would seem that our physical make up has been handed down through the Generations. Only today I was looking across the park to where my grandchildren were playing, and for an instant I thought that the eldest grandson was my son [his father]. I believe this true in most families even when a child is young someone will say he is the spitting image of so. Photographs will show the similarity of appearance later in the book. Again I would like you to think on this have you ever thought you had been at a place before? It has happen to me twice in my life. I once went to the town of Byfleet and it felt so familiar to me, I knew I had not been there before. It was not until we trace the family that I found several of my ancestors had lived and died there and they were resting in the churchyard. The other time is when I served in the Army in Palestine and Malta I felt that I knew the country and the people. I cannot explain this in a way that you will believe but I am sure I am not the only one amongst us who have had these feelings. Am I proud of being associated with a Crusading Knight? I know of one member of the family, a historian, who is trying to disassociate us from this connection, "a mass murderer" I must admit when I read the history of the crusades, I was horrified at the extent of the killing and cruelty. Should I feel shame, should I hide the connection? Definitely not. A family history must show a true record of its roots, warts and all, it is not up for censorship. So we have Saints and Sinners in the family, light and dark. As an artist I know that you must have contrast in your picture to show the full beauty of the subject. Every family has it black sheep, and we must not judge our ancestors on the morals of today. Only the strong survived in the early days of history, and it helped if you were a Knight or a Bishop, and we had both in the family. Can you alter history we know we cannot but only learn from it but do we? I think not; our arm forces are still sent out to crusade by the politicians to right the wrongs in their eyes. Have we changed? We will start our family tree from William The Carpenter, but will included his conceivable ancestors from 920. I will try to write this book so you the reader find it interesting and informative, and in plain English. I hope it might help you understand who you are and explain why you act and have ways of behaving which are quite natural to you; but in other people's eyes be a little eccentric. Lets start at the beginning as good as place as any. The French town of Melun is believed to be our family seat. Caesar said of Melun that it was a town of great importance. The Normans sack the town in 845. And it was siege in the year of 1429-30 by Charles the VII. Severely damaged in 1944. A Prefecture and market Town. The ancient town expanded from an island in the river of the Seine very close too the Forrest of Fontainnebleau and the castle of Vaux {c 1615-61} It has two very old churches. Known through its history for the production of the famous French cheese Brei and Beauce. also glass, pottery, leather and sugar refining. King Hughes Capet gave Melun to his favourite Bouchard. In the reign of Robert Eudes the count of Champagne bought the town. It was taken back by the King in the year of 999 it had been sold by Le Chateleen and his wife they did not profit long as the king had them hung. A sad end for an estate agent though, I know some of you would agree with this punishment. Josselin I. was the first of the line, that has been traced to date, named Viscount of Melun, born 920. He gave the village Noisy-le-Sec to the monastery of Saint Maur-des-Fossez. He then took up the monk's habit that is where he died on the 19 March in Year of 998 or 999. His death caused a feud between the Manasses who took the side of Le Chatelian, who was his grandson and his rightful heir Herve. The following line is the best guess to date from all the information we have at hand to date, a list of all documents researched will be noted at the end of this book. I ask the reader to get from his mind that travelling any distance was not as simple as it is to day, they had no cars to jump in and go on to a motorway, Because the family was based on the river Seine it gave them a highway to travel abroad. Descendants of Josselin I DE Melun to be continued ...