I agree with Terrald (tknorr@home.com, Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:39:18), that academic debate should be encouraged. As a professor myself (computer information systems rather than history), I have witnessed some very heated debates by those who hold differing views on an issue. Due to their strong beliefs in their own research findings, debaters sometimes slip into personal comments. They are human. The error lies in us collectively losing track of the debate. It seems to me that most of the personal comments posted here have been by those not directly involved in the debate. If one has material comments to add, he/she should join in the debate. However, attempts to defend someone else's honor only serve to escalate the personal comments. I, too, am offended by some recent comments. However, probably given my academic discipline, I am more annoyed by those who "forward" or "reply with history" to the list, thereby adding redundancy that requires more keystrokes than I prefer. That doesn't chase me off the list, though, as I can learn from all of you. Having typed all that, I have vilolated my own advice to stick to the exchange of viable information. So, now, back to the debate... As I understand it, there seems to be little, if any, disagreement about the English origins of the Rehoboth and Providence Carpenters. The disagreement lies in the origin of the English Carpenters. From what I have learned thus far, the origin either way appears to be from mainland Europe in the areas that are presently part of France. The Zimmerman line, again as I understand it, stems from the part of Europe that is now Switzerland. Those two areas are not too far apart geograhically that there might even be a common origin among all Carpenters, excepting those who became Carpenters because they were carpenters [note: lower case "c"]. Please take that previous paragraph as a question.