Dear Tony, Here is some data that Bruce E. Carpenter asked on the same subject. Hope it helps, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: jrcrin001 To: carp@tezukayama-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: Coat-of-Arms Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:00:21 -0700 Message-ID: <19980716.120037.11214.4.jrcrin001@juno.com> References: <199807150428.NAA04123@tezukayama-u.ac.jp> Dear Bruce, This question has many answers. The reason for this is which Hertefordshire line? Several Coat-of-Arms came out of this line. Their ancestry however is common with William "the carpenter" De Melun. Thus the oldest Herfordshire line carries the same basic Coat of Arms as William's. William Carpenter of Homme is the traditional ancestor or founder of the American line. See the data below. The notes for him describe the Coat of Arms, history et cetera. I hope this answers your question. Sincerely, John R. Carpenter Working on a Carpenter 2000 CD. 5850 Yorkshire Ave. Carpenter GEDCOMS Wanted! La Mesa, CA 91942-2821 I will share my data for your data. U.S.A. (619) 466-5910 Fax / voice message - E-mail address: jrcrin001@juno.com On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:28:50 -0400 "carpenter" <carp@tezukayama-u.ac.jp> writes: >John: >Could you take a minute to answer a question. >What does the oldest known Herfordshire-Carpenter >arms look like, and specifically what crest? > >yours, >Bruce Carpenter >Nara Japan > **********************************jrc insert ************************************************ INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:91 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Name:William CARPENTER William of Homme Sex:M ID No:8LC0-35 Birth:Abt 1440 Place:Homme,Hertfordshire,England Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:(CARPENTER)-700 Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death:Abt 1520 Place:of,Dilwyne,Herefordshire,England Burial:Abt 1520 Place:of,Dilwyne,Herefordshire,England Father:John the younger CARPENTER-90 Mother:(CARPENTER)-702 Notes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ !WILLIAM OF HOMME RESIDED IN PART OF DILWYNE, HEREFORDSHIRE, ENGLAND PER 1898 BOOK. SEE ALSO GENEALOGICAL & FAMILY HISTORY OF WESTERN NEW YORK BY LEWIS 1912. PAGE 1252 AND 1317. PAGE 1317 GIVES BIRTH ABOUT 1480 INSTEAD OF 1440. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE REAL "WILLIAM OF HOMME" WAS THE SON OF THIS WILLIAM? !AKA: William of Hereford. !AFN 8LC0-35 is the same as AFN 4JG8-24 & AFN 4JG8-XL. !Believed to be the common ancestor of all English Carpenter's in America. !Oxford University records indicate that William of Hereford had sons James, John, William and Richard. !Holm is a saxon word signifying "a woody situation." !The property at Homme or Holm stayed in the family until 1787, when it passed to the Deverux and Peploe Family. Per Robinson's "Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire." In 1873 it was the residence of Lady Frances Vernon Harcourt, who was the daughter of John Lothrop Motley, the distinguished American Historian. !This William of Homme is the common ancestor of our Carpenter Family in America. Coat of Arms is a common way of tracing lineage. ********* The arms granted to Lord George Carpenter in 1719, as published in the account of his life (The Life and Times of Lord George . . .) were Pally of six, argent and gules on a chevron, azure,three cross crosslets, or. CREST, on a wreath a globe in a frame all or. Supporters, two horses, party-perfess, embattled argent and gules. MOTTO: "Per Actua Belli" (Through the Asperities of War). John the Elder, Bishop, granduncle to this William, had the same Coat of Arms. The same arms, less the supporters and motto, were used by the Herefordshire Carpenter family and were emblazoned in a glass window of the college and church at Westbury upon Trin as early as 1443. They were placed there by permanently by Bishop John (the Elder) Carpenter of Worcester, who was a native of Westbury and a great benefactor of the college, having rebuilt and refounded it. Bishop John Carpenter died in 1476 and was buried in the church, where a plain altar monument was errected to his memory. This church (in 1890) is the Holy Trinity of Bristol, and is described in Willi's Survey of Cathedrals, published in 1742. And in Atykn's and Rudder's History of Gloucester where there is a very interesting sketch of Bishop John Carpenter who was also known as "Master John Carpenter" mentioned in the will of the town clerk of London, John Carpenter, the younger. !FOUNDER: William Carpenter of Homme is concidered the common ancestor of the following branches of the Carpenter Family: - REHOBOTH, MA Branch - Capt. William C. son of William (who married Elizabeth the daughter of John of James the son of William of Homme) of Robert (who married Eleanor C. daughter of Robert of William the son of William of Homme) of William of Robert of Richard the son of William of Homme. - PROVIDENCE, RI Branch - William of Amesbury C. son of Richard of Robert (who married Eleanor C. - see above) of William (who married Elizabeth C. - see above) of Robert of Richard the son of William of Homme. - PHILADELPHIA, PA Branch - Samuel the son of John the Sheriff of Robert, of Stephen of Robert of William the son of William of Homme. - VIRGINIA BRANCH - Nathaniel Carpenter through his sons John and Joseph. Nathaniel was the son of Joseph Carpenter, the grandson of William Carpenter of Amesbury, the founder of the PROVIDENCE, RI Branch of the Carpenters. Nathaniel was the son of Hannah Carpenter, the grandson of Captain William Carpenter, the founder of the REHOBOTH, MA Branch of the Carpenters. - LORD LINES - William of Cobham (of William of Alexander of William of John of James the son of William of Homme) who was granted a Coat of Arms in 1663. AND - Warncomb Carpenter (of Thomas of James of James of William of John of James the son of William of Homme) whose youngest son, George became page to the Earl of Montague, and on account of faithful service rendered to the Crown was created "Baron Carpenter of Killaghy" in 1719. - FEMALE LINE NOT LISTED ABOVE - Alice Carpenter (of Alexander of William of John of James the son of William of Homme) who married a Edward Southworth then married Govenor William Bradford of Plymouth Colony. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ end --------- End forwarded message ----------