John: I am sure Tony and family are nice people, but the fact is they have nothing to contribute to the history of the ancestry of the family of John Carpenter Town Clerk of London. For yourself, I feel you have much to contribute in the compilation of more modern genealogical data. You have a passion for it. That being said, I feel you should avoid anything before 1300. Your data is all wrong. I have told you this before. If you had the right training, languages and time to spend in Oxford, Cambridge and Paris libraries, you might begin to approach the true story. This subject of a medeival family is too difficult for you. Stick with the modern side of it. Even in an entirely inadequate medieval library collection, like the one here at the University of Washington, I was able to compile data you hadn't imagined. What will I find when I spend six months at the library of Oxford University? I suspect it would be much more in the same vein of what I have discovered already. Be a gentleman and admit you mistakes. Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter professor -----Original Message----- From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001@home.com> To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com <CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Present English Carpenters >Dear Bruce, > >Of the present day Carpenters in England, many can not trace their >ancestry back more than a couple of hundred years. Some are descendant >of the French Hugenots, a later group of French Carpentiers, some who >were woodwrights that became Carpenter and even some American Loyalsts >who settled in England instead of Canada. > >A few lines however have some pretty good documentation and lineage back >to the same ancestors of the New England Carpenter line in England. >Such is the case of Tony Carpenter's ancestry in England. > >Tony Carpenter's family has had a couple of generations of his family >interested in genealogy. His ancestry data is pretty darn good. He >also does not have the biases of the American Carpenters who have read >or looked at the American versions of Carpenter ancestry. > >Tony also has dabbled in Coat of Arms in stained glass among other >things. From the documentation from his web page, he seems quite >intelligent, responsible and open minded. Let me quote from a very >small part of his personal history ... > >"On leaving the army, returned to my trade soon became foreman, manager, >then owned my own electrical business. Finally became an electrical >consultant." AND > >"I became a member of The Soceity of Patentees and inventors, as well as >several other engineering soceities, far too many to mention here. One >of my inventions was a method of engraving glass. This was the base of >my business, The Compleat Engaver International." AND > >"I am retired now and spend my days involved in all forms of art >including painting, woodcarving, Playwriting, poetry and even the start >of a novel. I am currently teaching art in the local village hall and >hope to put together a computer programme based on the course. 'learn to >paint watercolours from your computer'. I also designed a card game, >based on Golf, which one day I hope to get professionally produced, as >the family think it better than Trivial Pursuit! >I believe I was lucky to be born into this great Family of Carpenters, a >Family name to be proud of. I hope that all you that bear this name feel >the same. I can remember my Grandfather, who was an old soldier, saying >to me 'Never dishonor the name of Carpenter, bear it with pride as you >would a medal'." > >I agree that the name of CARPENTER is honorable and a name to be proud >of. We should all be proud of this ancient name. > > >Personaly, his insights and approach to the Carpenter puzzle is very >refreshing. > >Oh, by the way, Gill (short for Gillian) is Tony's spouse. Tony feels >blessed by her and her partnership in life. Tony signs his name as >"Tony" at the end of every message. > >A Carpenter Cousin, > >John R. Carpenter >La Mesa, CA USA > >Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: >> >> Is Gill Carpenter in England any relation to we Rehoboth >> Carpenters in the US? He seems to be eager to speak for all Carpenters in >> England (and us as well), but surely no more than a fraction of the >> Carpenters left in England have any genetic connection to one another. By >> the 1300 there were all manner of unconnected people using the surname >> Carpenter. It was also a popular alias for criminals. Then there were the >> countless hammer and nails carpenters who used their profession as a >> surname. In English historical records there are countless examples of these >> people, whose deluded descendants now think they are part of some ancient >> lineage. >> Thanks to excellent Massachusettss records I can trace my ancestors back to >> the 1500s with certainty. Few people in England, outside the aristocracy, >> can do this. The Carpenter >> Line back from Town Clerk John was a denizen merchant family unrelated to >> all the other peasants with the surname in England. Any individual who wants >> you to believe the Carpenters of England are a grand big family is a >> nutcase. >> >> Sincerely, >> Bruce E. Carpenter >