Dear Bruce, I apologise for the delay in answering your last. I have the following family that comes from France into England. The Edward Carpenter you mention below may have come from this line. +---¦Jehan Le CARPENTIER-13058 Rob. Le CARPENTIER-44818 ¦ ¦Abt 1250 Abt 1275 --------------¦ ¦Lord of Daniel e,Du Nord,France of,Du Nord,France ¦ MRIN:15879 --SPOUSE-- MRIN:15880 +---¦ ¦ --CHILDREN-- 1Robert CARPENTER-44817 Jehan and Jean were brothers. Jean in France is John in England but what is Jehan in english equivalent? +---¦Jean Le CARPENTIER-13043 Maurice CARPENTIER-1407 ¦ ¦Abt 1250 Abt 1275/1280 ---------¦ ¦Lord of Daniel e,Du Nord,France Ypres,West Vlaanderen,F,Belgium ¦ MRIN:4560 --SPOUSE-- MRIN:511 +---¦ ¦ --CHILDREN-- 1-Stephen CARPENTER-16313 2-Henry CARPENTER-36558 3Pierre Le CARPENTIER-13035 4John OR Jean CARPENTIER Le-85 5Renaud OR Richard CARPENTIER-13037 6-Alix OR A CARPENTIER Le-13056 7-Mehant Le CARPENTIER-13034 Stephan and Henry (above) have not been proven as children of Maurice. They are not in the French record, but are believed to be closely related. See Stephen's data below. As you can see I have wondered about the link to Robert le Carpentier (see notes below). INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:16313 - ---------------------------------------------------- Name:Stephen CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: Birth:Abt 1300 Place:of Devon,Devonshire,England Father:Maurice CARPENTIER-1407 Mother: Notes ------------------------------------------------ !Stephen CARPENTER was a member of the English Parliament in 1325 for the Crediton in the county of Devon. Per Playfairs Britsh Antiquities, London 1810. !Only two of Maurice's male children are recorded in England. Stephen is not listed in the French records, but is probably related to Maurice as an uncle. This is a temporary connection. !NOTE: Is Stephen Carpenter, the same as Stephen Le Carpenter of Winterbourn' in 1323? Is he related to Robert le carpenter born abt 1167 in Huntingdon? Also found in the Suffolk Curia Regis Rolls in 1212? Or Maybe Robert Carpenter b. 1181? !SEE: Calendar of Antrobus Deeds before 1625, edited by R. B. Pugh in 1947. Page 6, dated 18 Mar 1323 mentions "Gift with warranty by Stephen le carpenter of Winterbourn' to Henry Curteis of Ambresbur' of a tenement with a curtilage which he had in the town of Ambresbur' . . ." (ie town of Amesbury). end notes. Miscellaneous note: In the late 1500's the town of Amesbury in Wiltshire figures into Carpenter history as many are born, married and buried there. Carpenters owned an Inn, sheep farm and other property there. Wills found prove this and their relation to the American Carpenters. Robert Carpenter (b. abt 1167) has only the speculative line below. +---¦Ralph OR Raulf CARPENTER-16308 Robert CARPENTER-16310 ¦ ¦Abt 1135 Abt 1167 -----------¦ ¦of,Yorkshire,England of,Suffolk,England ¦ MRIN:5675 --SPOUSE-- MRIN:10150 --CHILDREN-- 1Agnes CARPENTER-13063 INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:16310 - ---------------------------------------------------------- Name:Robert CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: Birth:Abt 1167 Place:of,Suffolk,England Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:Unknown Father:Ralph OR Raulf CARPENTER-16308 Mother: Notes -------------------------------------------------- !Robert or Robert Le Carpenter found in Suffolk Curia Regis Rolls in 1212. He is believed to be the descendant of William the Carpenter, b. abt 1042. !SEE: Calendar of Antrobus Deeds before 1625, edited by R. B. Pugh in 1947. Published by by the Wiltshire Archaeology & Natural History Society Records Branch. Submitted by Peter Goodhugh, 1992 of the Amesbury Society in Amesbury, Wiltshire, England. Page I, undated circa 1250 in black pencil. "Gift with warranty by Christine daughter of John de Ambresber' in her widowhood to Robert Kade for his homage and service of a messuage and curtilage lying between the messuage of Robert the carpenter and . . ." Robert the carpenter acts as a wittness also. See also Robert Carpenter born about 1181. Page 5, dated 9 July 1321 mentions "Carpenter Street (in vico carpentarii) in Great Ambri'." (ie Amesbury, Wiltshire, England) Page 6, dated 18 Mar 1323 mentions "Gift with warranty by Stephen le carpenter of Winterbourn' to Henry Curteis of Ambresbur' of a tenement with a curtilage which he had in the town of Ambresbur' . . ." (ie town of Amesbury). end notes. Hopefully, the data above combined with what you and others are digging up will help put the puzzle into a clearer light. Keep up the research! Sincerely, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > John: > Thanks for you letter re. d'Avesnes problem. I am in a state of Carpenter > history excitment because I feel I have discovered the "missing link" to the > whole problem. I found a ducument which located Edward Charpenter on > Fleetstreet. This and the document that locates a Richard Carpenter to > Fleestreet fits all the material that I have located thus far into an > unmistakable pattern. The London Carpenters were descendants of Flemish > merchants. I realize this does not agree with some traditional data, but > doesn't the truth in family history always end in a surprise? I am now > anxious to return to the library and look more carefully at the 1200s for > clues of Edward's family. I will keep you informed. > Sincerely, > Bruce E. Carpenter