Linda, Yes, I think I may know of these folks. Sharon sent to this list on May 30 some items she found in the "Abstracts From Madison County Newspapers in the Cazenovis, NY Public Library," which is my family's county, so to speak. Here is part of it: Benson, Royal m. Thurs. 14 Nov 1811 by Elisha Whipple, Esq., to Miss Betsey Carpenter. Chappell, Henry late of Cherry Valley, Otsego Co. made public confession of defamation and slander gainst William Carpenter of DeRuyter and dau. Betsey carpenter. Signed Henry (X) Chappel at DeRuyter before Jeremiah Justus and Eli Gage. 30 Jan 1809 and several following issues. Well, it happens that my GGGgrandfather, John CARPENTER, born in 1797 in VT, spent most of his adult life in DeRuyter, a small town in Madison County. He lived to be 82. I have been trying to push him back to find his parents. When I saw this, I was so excited (still am), because if Betsey was married in 1811, she was most likely born in the 1890s, and could be a sister of my John. This would make his William (of whom I have heard nothing before) John's father. At the least, I'm betting he is an uncle of John's. I ran a search on the LDS site, and got this: IGI Record: Betsey CARPENTER Sex F Born: 14 Feb 1799 Huntington Twp, Fairfield, connecticut Parents: Father: William CARPENTER Mother: Charry Batch number: 7450313 Sheet: 0 Now, if this is the same pair, then Betsey was married at age 12 (almost 13). Possible, I suppose. Frontier women were a rarity, and as we all know, they are good looking, strong, and able. :--) Also, she may have been pregnant, which in those days might make age a moot point. Or maybe one of the dates is wrong. (Sounds like a genealogists lament, eh?) I was wondering about "Charry." There are several possibilities. The first I thought of was Charlotte. The LDS site only really thought of Charity. The rest of your information beats up on my theory. There *was* a Betsey and her father William in DeRuyter. Maybe Charry/Charlotte is a different thing. If your Wm. and Charlotte aren't mine, then at least you picked up a little something here, maybe. I'm planning a trip, probably in July, to Madison Co., NY, to search for these things, find documentation for my family there, see if the old house is still there, and, with any luck, head into VT to do the same for John's parents and siblings and others. There is a whole pack of us looking to push NY back into VT. Good searching! George --- George R. Carpenter Pinckney, Michigan carpgl@ismi.net ---------- > Does anyone know these Carpenters? > William Carpenter b. April 1, 1776, Providence, RI, d. November 15,1838 IL > m. Charlotte Holmes ( first wife Jemima b. 1800 VT) > > Thanks and Regards, Linda Cates