Dear MD, I have 2794 descendants (with spouses) of John CARPENTER Capt.-587 born 8 Oct 1626 Shalbourne,Wiltshire,England son of Captain William Carpeter of Rehoboth. More data is yet to be added. Can you give me some more detail on your line? If you add information, I would be happy to share data with you. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA MNill50012@aol.com wrote: > > I do not know of Matt Carpenter, but I am descended from Wm. Carpenter of > William, and his wife, Abigail Briant, thru their son, John. I have no > Benjamin on their list of children. Do you have any further information on > this family? > MN in CA

Abigail Carpenter was born 9 Apr 1643 in Weymouth, Norfolk, MA, daughter of William Carpenter and Abigail SEARLES. She married John TITUS in 1659. At least that is what I have thought for several years. But, I just found some conflicting information which has me confused. Not only was her mother referred to with a different name, but her line of descent in the Carpenter family is shown differently. Can anyone confirm my data? Eleanor Adams

Doesn't Rosemary E Bachelor still publish a monthly news journal? I hear from time to time that she is still publishing but I've never followed through to contact her. Carolyn Carpenter

My line descends thru John Carpenter, b 8 Oct 1626, Eng, sp, Hannah Smith (dau of William & Magdalene) Samuel, b ca 1666, Jamaica, NY " Sarah (?) Samuel, b ca 1695 " " Patience (?) Joshua, b ca 1740, " " Sarah Burt James B. b 4 Jan 1784, Warwick, NY" Catherine Stryker William S. b 5 Mar 1813, Shelby, NY " Lydia Older Sarah Ellen, b 19 Jun 1851, MI " Coroden Hess Sarah was my grandmother. M Nill, San Carlos, CA

Dear Bruce, JOHN CARPENTER was a member of the English Parliament in 1323 for the borough of Leskard in Cornwall, as was 2 years afterwards a Stephen Carpenter for Crediton in the county of Devon (ie in 1325). A Henry Carpenter served in 1418, for the town of Derby. Per Playfairs British Antiquities, London 1810. I guess this was not a name pulled out of a hat. Check it out your self. Sources were available to Amos B. Carpenter. He cites them starting on page one (1) of his work. As I pointed out before, there is other definitions to be used from the dictionaries based on the use at that period in time. Chaundeler can be a broker or trader (of gold, wool etc.) especially associated with the shipping trade. It has been proven that the French & English Carpenters were related and involved in such trading. The Carpenters of this time were well educated and well to do because the were nobles. The ancestry in the French line indicates this. You provided additional proof that ... "John's non-English origins are betrayed by the French version of his name in the original document. The quotation is extremely brief, stating name and occupation. It is from the Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1272-128l. It is precisely dated May 12, 1273 under the heading "Licenses to Export Wool" and reads "Jean le Carpenter, merchant". From an E-Mail message dated 13 July 1999 By Bruce E. Carpenter. (Where to export - France!) Jean Le Carpentier (b. abt 1250)- Lord of Daniel et Avesnes les Aubert, Du Nord, France had a powerful father... Godefroy de Carpentier, Sire de Daniel and d'Avesnes-les-Obert ... who married Aleida Countess Holland. One of Godefroy's great grandchildren (Philippa) married on 24 Jan 1327 the newly crowned King Edward the Third of England. See: GENEALOGY OF THE DE CARPENTIER FAMILY OF HOLLAND BY EDWIN JAQUETT SELLERS, printed in PHILADELPHIA, PA in 1909. AND La chronique de Baudouin d'Avesnes Notice extraite du repertoire The Narrative Sources from the Southern Low Countries, 600-1500. See also: Longman, W., History of the Life and Times of Edward the Third, 2 vols. (1869; repr. 1979) MacKinnon, James, History of Edward the Third: 1327-1377 (1900; repr. 1974). Packe, M., King Edward III (1983). Later Bruce E. Carpenter wrote (27 July 1999): Jean le Carpenter was among a select group given the rights to export wool in 1273. Jean had to be a true `bigwig' with money going to all the right places, as had to be Sir John Carpenter with all his lands held from King Edward lll and consort Queen Philippa. Money and power! Money and power! History can be a better tool than strict genealogy. Even though in 1272 Edward the First became King of England with Eleanor of Castile, I agree that Jean le Carpentier had to be a 'bigwig' as the later Sir John Carpenter who held many lands (the same lands noted in the Domesday Book of 1097 by the way) from King Edward the Third and his wife, Queen Phillipa. Money and Power AND MIGHT I ADD FAMILY. Jean le Carpentier (b. abt 1303/1305 at de Grand Pont,Du Nord,France - He was a noble)or Sir John Carpenter (as he was known in England) and Queen Phillipa were SECOND COUSINS. Marriages for the King of England was arranged more for political reasons that anything else. History can be a better tool than strict genealogy by understanding how things worked AT THOSE TIMES. Has there been a document found that states John or Jean Carpentier is the father of Richard? At this time, none has been found. Did Maurice exist? Yes - according to French records. Did he have a son named Jean (John in England)? Yes. Did Maurice go to England? Yes. In the Samuel Carpenter book of 1912, page 4 is: "The most ancient coat of arms of the Carpenters has for the device in the field three cross crosslets, which appear in many pedigrees filed in the Herald office in London. These lines were located chiefly in the counties of Hereford and Gloucester. The arms borne by the Carpenters of Homme in Herefordshire show the three cross crosslets, and the same appears in a lineage of several generations commencing about 1300 with a Maurice Carpenter, or Carpender, Gent., in the County of Gloucester, and reported in the Herald Visitation in that county. These arms were also borne by the Earls of Tyrconnel, whose descent was through the Carpenters of Homme. Burke says that this family was of great antiquity in Herefordshire." If the line of Richard (b. abt 1335), John the elder(b. abt 1399)- (brother to John the younger), John the younger (b. abt 1410) to William of Homme (b. 1440) is true and the above statement from the Herald Visitation is true ... then it is reasonable to assume that a child of Maurice was the father of Richard. Since only two of Maurice's children have been found in the English Records, those being for; John OR Jean CARPENTIER (b. abt 1303) and for a Renaud OR Richard CARPENTIER (b. abt 1307). It is reasonable to assume that one of these two continued the line to be the father of Richard (b. abt 1335). Is there absolute proof? - NO. Is it a myth? - No because those people did exist historicaly. Is it the best guess? - Probably based on the knowledge we have at this time. So I say, let us NOT be rid of this venerable, but quite annoying best guess. Sincerely, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > The traditional history of the Carpenter family from a John Carpenter who > served in parliament for Leskard in Cornwall in the year 1323 began with > Amos Bugsbee Carpenter in the late 1800s. In the late 1800s English > historical records were still in manuscript and impossible to access. The > script they were written in was difficult to read. They were unindexed etc., > etc. > The 1323 John Carpenter was just a named fished out the pile. Now the great > number of documents unavailable to Amos Carpenter are now fully accessible > to us, and while respecting the efforts of Amos Carpenter, we can gain a > much clearer understanding of 14th century Carpenter history. > > Previous I had shown that Town Clerk John’s family was too powerful > economically to have come from a candle-maker’s family. There must have been > another, and a richer, Richard Carpenter in London. I discovered another > Richard in the prosperous neighborhood of Fleetstreet. This Richard > naturally had no trade associated with his name. Likewise I found a Robert > Carpenter in nearby Surrey, on the Thames River, with a suspicious proximity > to ships and trade. This Robert was a ‘clerk’ like the Town Clerk John > himself. Clearly there was a Carpenter family of wealth and influence > existing in and around London in the later half of the 14th century. What > about the early 14th century? > > In the early 14th century documents I discovered two quite remarkable > Carpenter groups. One was centered about a Sir John Carpenter, a knight. Sir > John had extensive land holdings, and most of the documents I discovered > relating to him were will-related, after his demise. The exact residence of > Sir John was never revealed, although it was clear he had good property in > Berks, Herts and probably Oxfordshire and Wilts. He probably lived in all > those places. It is very tempting to equate this Sir John with the > traditional Leskard, Cornwall John. They are exactly contemporaneous. The > problem with with a Leskard, Cornwall John Carpenter as a progenitor of the > London Carpenters, was that Cornwall was so far from London, literally the > sticks. Who was this Cornwall Sir John Carpenter? I could find no reference > to him, while I found many references to a Sir John Carpenter with land next > to London. In addition this newly discovered John had no son Richard at the > time of his death, which was before and around 1339. Perhaps the two Johns > were identical and a son Richard died well before his father. Later > researchers appointed him as father of Town Clerk John. It is certain from > the documents that Sir John Carpenter had no male heirs at the time of his > death, all his worldly holdings passing to related women or his brother. > Could there have been two Sir John Carpenters in parliament in the early > 1300s? Doubtful I think. Can anyone find a real reference to a Sir John > Carpenter with a son Richard, a reference that is not just hearsay or IGI > mythology? > If not, let us be rid of this venerable, but quite annoying myth. > > Sincerely, > Bruce E. Carpenter

Dear Steve, This data comes from the Carpenter Memorial. PLEASE NOTE: This pacticular data is being processed into the Main Carpenter data base and has not been checked or cleaned up. This is raw data basics. The Carpenter data starts on page 176 of the Carpenter Memorial under number 1182. Rufus Carpenter. This book is by Amos B. Carpenter and was printed in 1898. INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:3893 - -------------------------------------------------------- Name:Rufus CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: Birth:14 Feb 1770 Place:Rehoboth,Bristol Co.,Massachusetts Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:Betsey BALDWIN-3894 Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death:28 Dec 1834 Place:West Fairlee,Vermont Burial: Place: Father:Caleb 6487 CARPENTER-2470 Mother:Hannah 8586 FRENCH-2471 Notes------------------------------------------------------ INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:3894 - ---------------------------------------------------- Name:Betsey BALDWIN Sex:F ID No: Birth:15 Jun 1773 Place:Oxford,New Hampshire Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:Rufus CARPENTER-3893 Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death: Place:Imlay City,Michigan Burial: Place: Father: Mother: Notes --------------------------------------------------- FAMILY NUMBER:1577 - ---------------------------------------------------- Husband:Rufus CARPENTER-3893 Br/Ch:14 Feb 1770 Wife:Betsey BALDWIN-3894 Br/Ch:15 Jun 1773 - ---------------------------------------------------- CHILD BR/CH ----- ----- 1. Ira CARPENTER-6935 17 Aug 1794 2. Rufus CARPENTER-6936 16 May 1798 3. Caleb CARPENTER-6937 24 Mar 1805 4. Isaac D. CARPENTER-6938 11 Aug 1807 5. Seymour M. CARPENTER-6940 6. Mary CARPENTER-10294 7. Philolena C. CARPENTER-20140 8. Samuel CARPENTER-20141 1814 9. Lavina CARPENTER-20142 Abt 1816 10. Betsey CARPENTER-20143 I believe this is the family you were looking for. Let me know if you are interested in sharing data. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Steven J .Fifield wrote: > > Hello Carpenter List People; > > I am hopeful that some one out there may have some > information that I seek. > I am looking for information on Rufus CARPENTER, from what little I have > on him is this Rufus Carpenter married Betsy ( Elizabeth) b 1776 d. > July 5 1855 One child that I know off Lavina Carpenter b. 11/24/1814 > who married a Jacob or Moses Snyder. Some of the family has Lavina > marring Jacob but all I have found is Moses married to Lavina 31 Oct > 1841 .They had children showing in the 1850 census ,Macomb ,Macomb > County , Michigan . Other then that nothing . Hope that some one can > help !! Thanks Steve Fifield sfifield@sisna.com

Dear Gene, James Aussie Carpenter started his slow decline about that time period. His wife has since died and he is in a convalesent facility as of January 1999. It is true his later work declined but some of his earlier works were pretty good. At one time, he was the only Carpenter publishing a general newsletter on Carpenters and especially the Southern Carpenters!. The most current Carpenter newsletter is being done by Bette Butcher Topp. I do not know how much longer she will keep printing however. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Gene Saunders wrote: > > Hi, John. > > I sent my CARPENTER work to this guy a couple years ago: > > James Ausie Carpenter aka: > PO Box 1356 2101 Nashville Rd > Bowling Green KY 42102-1356 Bowling Green KY 42101 > > He prints (printed?) "The Carpenter and Related Family Historical > Journal" (ISSN 0740-6673), but there is apparently no way to carry on > a private conversation with him (hope he's not one of your relatives, > but my experience with him was really bad). > > He asked which branch I was working, and I didn't have anything really > ready, bu I sent him a non-edited DRAFT of a TMG [The Master > Genealogist] report, just to give him an idea. The auto-generated > prose sounded really awful (like a Tarzan movie!) but he printed it > verbatim -- no attempt to clean it up, never asked if it was okay to > print, etc.. Far as I can tell, he prints EVERYTHING you send him > without EVER thinking (so no social security numbers, credit card > info, medical information, etc). My final communication with him was > over 3 years ago. > > My 2c. (Murphy's Law .. he'll be your father, but just in case he's > not, I thought I'd warn you;^) > > -gene saunders > dallas TX

Best of Luck & Good Hunting! John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Bob Johnson wrote: > > Thanks for all of the help. I believe the consensus is the the person > filling out the death certificate on my grandfather, Kenneth Carpenter, > did not know how to spell Evart, Michigan. I'll be heading that way > soon to check out for a birth certificate. The truth will tell then. > > --Bob Johnson

Opps! I forgot to mention that NC had some Zimmerman Carpenters of good German and Swiss stock. If anyone has a good GEDCOM of the Carpenters that came from the Zimmerman German / Switzerland, I would be happy to add it to the Carpenter CD Project. My apologies to those good NC Carpenters of German / Swiss ancestry for forgetting them for a minute on my last message. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA jrfranklin wrote: > > Sho' nuff! I have Mathias Zimmerman/CARPENTER b 1750 PA d 1835 Ashe m. > Elizabeth MILLER to his son, Jacob b 1778 and his grandson, David W. b > 1806 who married 2nd Mira GRAGG. Their son, Ervin b. about 1843 Yancey > Cty was last heard of in the 1860 census. He did not go to > Graham/Cherokee Cty with the rest of his family. He did, however, have a > daughter named Betty Jane who is my husband's Ggrandmother. I have been > unable to determine who Ervin married or where he went but it must not > have been far. Betty Jane and her son, Mack Leonard Carpenter were > definitely in Western NC. I would also like to determine the parentage > of Mathis Zimmerman and where he came from in PA. He was German without > a doubt. Audrey Franklin > > John Comer wrote: > > > Hi to all you Carpenter genealogists out there, > > I have been watching with much interest all the posts that are coming > > through, very interesting but I haven't seen anything on any NC > > Carpenters. > > Are there any researchers out there researching this area? > > > > Thanks, Joyce Comer

The second significant group of London area Carpenters was those centered about a Edward Carpenter. Edward’s Carpenter surname was frequently rendered as Charpenter, a convention in 14th century documents for those of the ‘denizen’ status or non-citizens, to be distinguished from those who were aliens. The ‘denizens’ were the foreign permanent residents engaged in essential foreign trade. Those of the surname Charpenter in English records were Carpentiers of Charpentiers among themselves. After a few generations they were simply Carpenters, the many Charpenters having seemingly disappeared in the late 1300s. Thus from about 1250 to 1350 a great number of non-English Carpenters make their appearance in English records and then blend into the native populace. This event takes place against the backround of the Hundred Year’s War when the English crown eagerly sought foreign help in a great miltary struggle on the continent. A premier group of these non-English carpenters were those associated with Edward Carpenter or Charpenter mentioned above. Previously I had shown that Edward was ‘probably ’ a Fleming. I have found additional evidence to support this in a connection with Queen Philippa. This document in from The calendar of Patent Rolls for Edward lll in 1360, years after the death of Edward Charpenter. “Inspeximus and confirmation of letters patent (in French) of Queen Philippa (1) dated at Marlborough, 12 June, 32 Edward lll, granting to John de Gosebourn, auditor of her accounts, for long service , 32 ½ acres of land which have come into her hand by escheat in the in the hundred of Middleton, co. Kent, to hold to him, his heirs and assigns, for her life, by the services due. (2) The like, dated at Reading, 10 June, 33 Edward lll, granting to him three shops late of Edward Carpenter of Templestreet, a tenement late of Geoffrey Dubbere at the Blyndyate, a tenement there late of John Brokensbergh, a tenement late of Robert Hattere by the Church of All Saints, seven shops late of Edward Hattere, a teneament late of Robert Guldere in Horstrete and four shops before the friars Preachers, which came into her hand by escheat in the town of Bristol, to hold as above. Grant also that if he survive the queen he shall retain the premises for his life.” >From the names like Dubbere, Hattere and Guldere we can infer we are dealing with a group of Flemings in a financial connection to the Fleming Queen Philippa. I think we can safely assume Edward was a Fleming himself given the material also previously quoted. Edward, as I had shown was a major player in the London area of the early 1300s, as was his son Robert. These Carpenter merchants had a bit of history already in England, and as I will show in my next letter, they imported Flemish wine and no doubt exported English wool. They grew extremely rich and exerted a the powerful influence on the English crown as was shown in previous letters devoted to Carpenters and Lancastrian politics. Sincerely Bruce E. Carpenter Professor Tezukayama University Visiting Scholar University of Washington

Dear Jan, Here is your data on Senator Matt Carpenter. INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:12462 - ----------------------------------------------- Name:Matthew Hale CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: Birth:22 Dec 1824 Place:Moretown,,VT Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:Caroline DILLINGHAM-12466 Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death:24 Feb 1881 Place:Washington,District of,Columbia Burial: Place: Father:Ira CARPENTER-12445 Mother:Esther Ann LUCE-12461 Notes --------------------------------------------------- !Number 4833 in the Carpenter Memorial on page 499. Family on page 666 (#1225). A lawyer and served in the senate in 1869. Extensive notes on pages 500 to 506. BIRTH: He was born and baptised "Merritt Hammond" but he didn't like the name so he changed it. BOOK:- GENEALOGY: Carpenter and Allied Families by Miss Annie L. Carpenter, The American Historical Society, Inc., NY, published in 1936. Page 31. He was a U.S. Senator for WI. SEE: Dictionary of American Biography, Vol. 2, page 512, by Allen Johnson. He is listed as a lawyer, and senator (Rep.). Much detailed information there. end notes The extensive notes describes how state secrets were being leaked and the efforts of Sen. Carpenter to stop them. He sued the New York Tribune, but the book does not say if he was successful. The leaks started about 1870 and investgations, suits and such were still going on in 1877! He was from Captain William Carpenter (b. 1605) of Rehoboth through his son Benjamin. The line went into CT then VT. After he moved to WI, he served as a lawyer. +---¦Ira CARPENTER-12445 Matthew Hale CARPENTER-12462 ¦ ¦29 Apr 1798 22 Dec 1824 --------------¦ ¦Moretown,Chittenden,VT Moretown,,VT ¦ MRIN:4371 --SPOUSE-- MRIN:437 +---¦Esther Ann LUCE-12461 Caroline DILLINGHAM-12466 ¦Abt 1798 Abt 1824 ¦ Waterbury,Washington,VT --CHILDREN-- 1-Lillian CARPENTER-22924 2-Ada CARPENTER-22925 3-Annie CARPENTER-22926 4Paul Dillingham CARPENTER-22927 If you need any more data please let me know. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Gumpysfarm@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/27/99 9:34:15 PM Central Daylight Time, mike@netking.net > writes: > > << Hello, Jan > My name is Debra Carpenter, was wondering about the newspaper clipping? Am > still digging into my line but somewhere I have seen some of your names, > will try to find them, and send you what I have. Could you tell me about the > newspaper? > Thanks Debra >> > > The Newspaper is "The Evening News." Dated Detroit, Saturday, August 23, 1873. > It states: > "The New York Tribune, in response to the Milwaukee Evening Wisconsin, on the > Senator Carpenter scandal, says that the Tribune makes no charges that can > not be substantiated, and hopes that if Mr. Carpenter has been aggrieved by > anything that has appeared in its columns he will resort to his remedy at > law; and the Tribune being a journal of ample pecuniary responsibility, > whatever damage a jury of his countrymen shall say he has sustained will be > promptly paid. More than that, the Tribune will gladly pay any sum that may > be so assessed in damages to be convinced that the life and conduct of Mr. > Matt Carpenter are such as may be held up for an example, instead of a > warning to the young men of the country. For proof of that the Tribune is > willing to pay liberally. " > > In another location of the same paper: > > under "POLITICAL NOTES": > "A serious attempt is being made to kill off President Grant. The Rutland > Globe alludes to the failing health of Vice President Wilson, and his > possible death, and expresses it's horror at seeing Matt. Carpenter, as > President of the Senate, so near to the White House. The New York Tribune > has also been studying the law of decent in the case, and shows that in the > event of Grant, Wilson and Carpenter all dying the country would have to get > along without a chief magistrate till Congress meets in December. Now this > speculating on the effect of men's deaths is just the way to kill them. the > human mind is eculiar, and if the very knowledge that their decease is a > matter of discussion on every street corner is not in itself sufficient to > worry out the vital spark, there are plenty of insane Ravalliacs and Booths > in the country who would jump at the chance to gain themselves "a mission", > which the mere suggestion afforded. Three Presidents have died in office > within a quarter of a century. If we were Grant we should increase our life > insurance forthwith. By the way, Grant still lacks a week of completing the > first six months of his second term, yet the subject of his successor in 1877 > is already discussed by the topic-starved public press. etc.etc.etc... > > Kind of interesting? Now where does Matt Carpenter fit into the Carpenter > Clan? > Anybody? > Jan > Gumpysfarm@aol.com

I do not know of Matt Carpenter, but I am descended from Wm. Carpenter of William, and his wife, Abigail Briant, thru their son, John. I have no Benjamin on their list of children. Do you have any further information on this family? MN in CA

Hi. My name is Kris. I'm new to this list. As I read the e-mails I see that people are trying to link up their Carpenter line with others. Here's mine: Father: Franklin Wayne Carpenter, b. 2/7/1924, Lansing, MI, d.12/8/1963 married: Pauline V. Larson on 2/24/1944, b.12/29/1922, Alameda, Calif., d. 1/17/1998 Grandfather: Hugh J. Carpenter, b. 10/5/1896, Delta Twnshp, Eaton Co., Mich., d. 6/21/1963 married: Iona Esther Perry on 1/3/1921, b. 8/10/1899, Lansing, Mich., d. 8/6/1983 children: Franklin Wayne Robert W. Joyce GGrandfather: Frank W. Carpenter, b. 11/25/1869, Michigan, d. 6/21/1927, Michigan married: S. Anna Shappell on 4/10/1895, b. 10/25/1869, d. 6/7/1950 children: Hugh J. GGGrandfather: Cecil C. Carpenter, b. 1845, Ingham Co., Mich., d. 1936 married: Caroline E. Vannorthwick (aka: Vanorthwick, Vanotwick) on 2/5/1869 in Ingham Co., Mich. children: Frank W. (above) Guy E., b. 1882, married Ola B. Grant 3/17/1904 (no children) Claire C, b. 1890, married Blanche Burmaster (children ?) GGGGrandfather: Daniel R. Carpenter, b. around 1811, N.Y. married: Sally A. Wilson, b. Nov., 1817, d. 3/6/1863 children: Otis W., b. around 1840 Oakland Co., Mich., died 12/6/1864 (Civil War) (single) William H., b. 1842?, married Maryette Vannorthwick (aka, Vanorthwick, Vanotwick) Daniel R., born 1843?, died 1/21/1851(8 yrs old) Cecil C. (above) Diana R., born 10/6/1848, died 12/2/1868 (single) Daniel came from New York. He is listed on the 1840 Census for Oneida Township, Eaton co., Mich.. There is a Daniel R. listed on the 1830 census for chautauqua Co., N.Y. (Harmony Census Division). He came to Oakland Co., Mich., from N.Y., then to Eaton Co., Oneida Twnshp, then Delta Twnshp, Eaton Co., Mich. where he settled. His first son Otis as per above was born in Oakland Co., others in Eaton Co., He is listed on the 1850 and 1860 Census in Eaton Co., Delta Twnshp, and then gone so don't know what happened to him after that. William H. and Cecil C. were his only surviving children. Cecil is my line. William and Cecil married sisters as per above. William and Maryette (aka, Marietto) had at least one child named Carrie or Cassie. William and wife are listed on the 1870 Census still in Delta Twnshp, Eaton Co.,, Michigan. All of these Carpenters are buried in Delta Twnshp Cemetery, Eaton Co., Michigan. How do any of these Carpenters link up with any other Carpenters. Thank you for any help. Kris

Dear Bob, It maybe a long shot but ... BOOK- GENEOLOGY: Charles Lorain Carpenter, Rear Admiral, USN-Ret., THE DESCENDANTS OF TIMOTHY CARPENTER OF PITTSTOWN, RENSSELAER CO., NEW YORK. Published 1976 - 200 copies By: The News-Journal - P.O. Box 398 Machias, Maine. INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:11898 - ------------------------------------------------------ Name:Charles J. CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: Birth:27 May 1859 Place:Hoosick,Rensselaer,NY Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death: Place: Father:Charles H. CARPENTER-3002 Mother:Elizabeth BABCOCK-11894 Notes ------------------------------------------------- !Number 585-5 in the Timothy Carpenter book. In one copy of the above book, handwritten, it lists C. J. being in Michigan. I find no other information on him. JRC 6/95. end notes His parents, sibling and grandparents. +---¦Francis CARPENTER-2382 Charles H. CARPENTER-3002 ¦ ¦ 9 Feb 1777 24 Sep 1822 -------------¦ ¦Pittstown Twp.,Rensselaer,NY Pittstown,Rensselaer,NY ¦ MRIN:1316 --SPOUSE-- MRIN:4137 +---¦Esther FERRIS-3983 Elizabeth BABCOCK-11894 ¦ 8 Nov 1780 16 Apr 1829 ¦ ,,NY --CHILDREN-- 1-Mary J. CARPENTER-11895 2-Sarah M. CARPENTER-11896 3-Harriet A. CARPENTER-11897 4-Charles J. CARPENTER-11898 I couldn't find Everett either. I did a name sound search and ... Everett, MI maybe Evart, MI. Check out: http://www.mapblast.com/mblast/map.mb?&IC=0:0:8:&AD3=Everett%20MI&CMD=GEO I hope this helps. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Bob Johnson wrote: > > After weeks (seemed like months) of calls, I finally go a copy of my > grandfathers death certificate. The state of Florida seems to be > centralizing death & birth certificates. But only after (I believe it > was) 1995. Any thing before that go to the county. Dade county is in > the middle of moving its records. This all lead to lots in > misdirection. > > Seems that my grandfather, Kenneth, was born in Everett, Michigan. > Everett doesn't show up on mapquest. Does anyone know where it is? > Also, does anyone recognize this family? > > --Bob Johnson > > 1 Charles J. Carpenter > .. +Irene Davis > .........2 Kenneth S. Carpenter > b: May 2, 1904 in Everett, Michigan > d: May 18, 1992 in Maimi, Dade County, Florida > ............. +Rose Marie Blehm > b: Jun 28, 1907 in Lawrence, Kansas > d: Aug 4, 1975 in Saginaw, Saginaw County, Michigan > .................... 3 Billie Rose Carpenter > ........................ +Ecil Mindard > ....................3 Doris Jean Carpenter > ........................+William Lewis Johnson > ......... *2nd Wife of Kenneth S. Carpenter: > ............. +Margaret Carpenter > b: Mar 1, 1914 > d: Sep 1985 in Dade County, Florida > ....................3 Margeret Carpenter > ....................3 Kenneth S. Carpenter, Jr. > ....................3 Patricia Carpenter

Does any one out There know who the parents of Mathais (Zimmerman) Carpenter is is. Thanks, Joyce

Dear Linda, I wish it did include the Zimmerman lines of PA, LA, VA and NC. This because I get alot of requests on them. Unfortunately, the current job on the English Carpenters of French descent is all I can handle at this time. I am still looking for someone to compile a record of the Carpenter / Zimmermans. Do you know of anyone interested? Thanks for asking, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA LindaBoo2@aol.com wrote: > > Does your Carpenter database only include English Carpenters or does it also > include the Zimmerman Carpenters? Thanks , > > Linda

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------515D7B25460CFC44F377B481 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mary, I'm sorry but your weak link is still not positive. The attached file is what I have on the subject. Maybe, I have something you don't have or have overlooked. Best of luck! I hope you prove a link one way or the other. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Mary Carpenter wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am not having any luck finding a "positive" link a few generations > back in my CARPENTER line. If our "best fit" link (Amasa CARPENTER) is > correct, then my line goes back to Wm. of Rehoboth. But in all the > searches I see on this list serve, I never see the names that connect > in the last few generations to my line. If anyone can help, please let > me know. Here's my line, from Me (Mary), going BACK through the male > side to my "problem" link: > > Mary C. CARPENTER, b. 2-5-1960 in WI; single, presently living in > Flagstaff, AZ. > > Clarence Frank CARPENTER, b. 9-20-1922 in Longwood Twp., Clark Co., WI; > d. 5-20-1995 in Marshfield, Wood Co., WI; buried Abbotsford, Clark Co., > WI; m. Doris Marie GENRICH on 8-18-1954 in Dorchester, Clark Co., WI. > > Frank Isaac CARPENTER, b. 2-20-1882 in Chesaning, MI; d. 3-29-1945 in > Sparta, WI; m. Catherine POMMERICH on 2-3-1909 in Fond du Lac, WI. > Children: > Evelyn Carpenter Young > Ione Carpenter Vandehey > Cathryn Carpenter Brunkhorst > Frank Herman Carpenter > Marie Carpenter Kramer > Clarence Frank Carpenter (my dad) > > CASS Carpenter, b. 11-26-1851 in MI; d. 5-3-1925 in an Infirmary, > Calhoun Co., MI; m(1). Czarina (Czarena) A. BUCKLAND on 6-30-1877 in > Chesaning, MI. > Children: > *John Carpenter, b. 8-1880 in St. Charles Twp., Saginaw Co., MI; d. > 10-9-1940 in Pacific B1 (or Smithers), British Columbia, Canada; m. > unknown (I have pictures of her visiting my grandfather after John's > death, but no one can remember her name!). They had a son who may have > been in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or some other Canadian law > enforcement. *I am very interested in finding descendants of John! > Frank Isaac Carpenter (MY GRANDFATHER, see above). > Veva Dulcenia Carpenter DeMott > Eva J. Carpenter Homer (twin sister of Veva) > Cass married (2) Minnie C. FROST on 3-31-1898 in Merrill, MI. They had > a son, Walter Cass CARPENTER, b. 1901; d. 10-3-1926. > > Alonzo (Elanson) CARPENTERr, b. 1812 in Corinth Twp. Saratoga, NY; d. > Unknown; m. Julia FORBES in 1850. (Julia was born 6-13-1826 in NY; d. > 8-1-1899 in St. Charles, MI). I am also looking for more on the FORBES > side. > Children: > Sarah, b. 1850 in MI; d. unknown > Cass (my g.grandfather, see above) > Emma, b. 1855; d. unknown > Frank, b. 6-24-1857 in St. Charles, MI; d. 4-27-1926 in Battle > Creek, MI. > > > HERE IS MY WEAK LINK: > AMASA CARPENTER, b. 3-27-1783 in Thompson, Windham, CT; d. aft. 1850 in > Sandy Creek, Oswego Co., NY; m. Lucy STONE, unknown when/where. Lucy > was born abt. 1783 in CT; d. unknown. > > AMASA is Number 3751 in the Carpenter Memorial on page 415. He married > twice. Had 10 children and settled in Sandy Creek, NY. He is listed in > the 1850 census for Oswego Co., NY. > > The researcher would did much searching for my cousin in MI, could not > find names of Amasa and Lucy's children. She states in a letter that of > the many Carpenter lines in Oswego Co., NY (she ruled out Saratoga Co. > lines), there is one line she cannot rule out nor find proof that it is > the right line. This is AMASA CARPENTER. > > He occurs in the Oswego Co., NY census from 1820 through 1850, at which > time he is listed age 67 with wife Eunice age 62 and an Orlando Smith > age 12. There is a male in the household that would be the right age to > be Alonzo through 1840. Perhaps this Amasa is a different one than is > listed in the Memorial??? > > Amasa was the son of Samuel CARPENTER and Dolly ALTON, the last of a > line of 5 Samuel's if I'm counting correctly. > Samuel Carpenter, b. 5-24-1757 in Pomfret, Windham, CT; d. 1-7-1798 > in Thompson, Windham, CT; > m(1). Dolly ALTON on 4-27-1780 in Windham, CT. Dolly b. abt. 1760 in > Windham, CT; d. 30901785 in Thompson, Windham, CT. > m(2). Sybil ALTON > > Children of Samuel and (1)DOLLY: > Amasa; b. 12-29-1781 in Thompson, Windham, CT; d. 4-19-1782 in same > place. > *Amasa (MY problem LINE); b. 3-27-1783 in Thompson, Windham, Ct; d. > aft. 1850 in Sandy Creek, Oswego, NY; m. Lucy STONE. No mention of his > other marriage. > Samuel Carpenter, b. 3-6-1785 in Thompson, Windham, CT; d. Unknown > > Children of Sam. and (2)SYBIL: > Dolly > Eliot, b. 8-30-1792 in Thompson, Windham, CT; d. aft. 1835 in > Windham, CT. > Asa, b. 8-4-1795 in Thompson, Windham, CT; d. Unknown. > > ....So, I realize this is huge and probably hard to read, but if > ANYTHING rings a bell with anyone, please let me know. I need that link > to Alonzo's (Elanson's) dad! A list of Amasa's children would be a > great help too. I also mentioned wanting to find more "long lost > cousins" in Canada, through my grandfather Frank Isaac's brother John. > > Thanks for everyone's time! > > Mary C. Carpenter > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------515D7B25460CFC44F377B481 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="14581.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="14581.txt" Descendants of Amasa CARPENTER-14581 First Generation 1. Amasa CARPENTER-14581 was born 27 Mar 1783 in Thompson, Windham, CT. He died after 1850 in Sandy Creek, Osewego, NY. !Number 3751 in the Carpenter Memorial on page 415. Married twice. He had ten children and settled in Sandy Creek, NY. He is listed in the 1850 census for Osewego county, NY. Amasa married (1-MRIN:5191) Lucy STONE-14586 about 1802 in CT. Lucy was born about 1783 in CT. They had the following children: + 2 M i. Amasa CARPENTER-22391 was born 1804 and died 14 Jul 1854. + 3 M ii. Alonzo OR Elanson CARPENTER-14776 was born 1812. Amasa also married (2-MRIN:5192) SMITH a Widow-14587, daughter of Samuel STOEL-14588 (MRIN:5193). SMITH a Widow was born about 1783 in CT. Her father was named Samuel Stoel. Second Generation 2. Amasa CARPENTER-22391 was born 1804 in CT. He died 14 Jul 1854 in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, OH. Amasa may be his father. Amasa Carpenter resided at North Woodstock, CT. He moved to Cleveland, OH in 1853. He married first in 1830, Susan Richmond and secondly in 1836 to (name unledgible possibly a sister to Susan). Amasa married (1-MRIN:7192) Susan RICHMOND-22392 on 1830 in CT. Susan was born about 1804 in CT. Amasa also married (2-MRIN:8053) RICHMOND-22393 on 1836 in CT. RICHMOND was born about 1804. They had the following children: 4 M i. Edward Richmond CARPENTER-22394 was born 1838 in CT. He died in Collingwood, Ontario, Canada. He removed to Cleveland, OH with his father in 1853 and later finally settled in Collingwood, Canada. 3. Alonzo OR Elanson CARPENTER-14776 was born 1812 in Corinth Twp, Saratoga, NY. Information on this family supplied by John Wilfred DeMott of Rives Junction, MI. 4/1996. !Koos research: !CENSUS: 1850 US Census, Oswego, Oswego county, NY - Given name of "Alonzo" 1860 US Census, St. Charles Twp., Saginaw county, MI - First name is spelled Elanson. Cass gave his father's name as Alonzo on his marriage record. !IGI: Alonzo Carpenter born about 1812 at Corinth Twp., Saratoga county, NY. Relative of Joseph Hatten Carpenter. !PARENTS: Father may be Amasa # 3751. See page 415 of the Rehoboth Carpenters by Amos B. Carpenter. Both are in the same area in 1850. NAME: aka Elanson. Alonzo married (1-MRIN:5268) Julia FORBES-14777 on 1850. Julia was born 13 Jun 1826 in NY. She died 1 Aug 1899 in St. Charles, MI. They had the following children: 5 F i. Sarah CARPENTER-14778 was born 1850 in Oswego, MI. + 6 M ii. Cass CARPENTER-14772 was born 26 Nov 1851 and died 3 May 1925. 7 F iii. Emma CARPENTER-14779 was born 1855. 8 M iv. Frank CARPENTER-14780 was born 24 Jun 1857 in St. Charles, Saginaw, MI. He died 27 Apr 1926 in Battle Creek, Calhoun, MI. Third Generation 6. Cass CARPENTER-14772 was born 26 Nov 1851 in Oswego, MI. He died 3 May 1925 in Infirmary, Calhoun, MI and was buried 7 May 1925 in Oak Hill Cem., Battle Creek, Calhoun, MI. Information on this family supplied by John Wilfred DeMott of Rives Junction, MI. 4/1996. !CENSUS: 1860 US Census, St. Charles Twp., Saginaw county, MI - Pg 513, 7 June 1850 Age 7 - Living in the household of Elanson Carpenter, mother Julia age 36, Sarah age 10, Frank age 3 and an Emma Carpenter was living in the same area in the household of Benjamin and Catherine Holiday. 1870 US Census, St. Charles Twp, Saginaw county, MI - Pg 461. Julia 40, Emma age 15, Frank age 12, but no record of Cass. 1880 US Census, St. Charles Twp., Saginaw county, MI - Pg 2, ED320, 1 June 1880 Cass is age 28, wife Czarina A. age 28, and son John age 8 months. 1900 US Census, Arcada Twp., Gratiot county, MI - Village of Alma, ED45, Pg 19 Cass born Nov 1855, wife Minnie C., daughter Vevia age 6 and stepdaughter Della Sylvester. MARRIAGE: Marriage Record for Saginaw county 1867-1882 (MI F572.S17 M377 1950): Czarina A. Buckland, 25, St. Charles, born in NY to Cass Carpenter, 25 St. Charles, born in St. Charles, married June 30, 1877 at Chesaning. Minister J.M. McIntosh, Wm P. Dredge, J.P., Witnesses M. M. McIntosh and Hanitt E. Thompson of Chesaning. Certificate of Marriage Record Number 3881. See also LDS Family History Center info for same marriage date and marriage #2 info. Marriage #2 to Minnie C. Frost and Cass Carpenter dated March 31, 1898. !DEATH: Certificae of Death: Cass Carpenter died on 3 May 1925 at the County Farm, Marengo Twp., Calhoun county, MI - cause of death, carcinoma of the bladder - usual place of abode, 82 1/2 Division St., Battle Creek. Widowed, last wife Minnie. DOB 26 Nov. 1851 in MI. Occupation: teamster, employee Battle Creek lumber - parents unknown, Informant Walter Carpenter. Funeral Notice: Battle Creek Inquirer - Evening News, Wed. May 6, 11925, page 10,Funeral services for Cass Carpenter will be held Thursday morning at 10 o'clock from Spaulding Undertaking Parlors. Burial will be made in Oak Hill. (Microfilm to discolored to copy) Saginaw County Cemeteries (MICH F572.S17 S33z): Chesaning Wildwood Cemetery, Czarena Carpenter died May 30, 1887, age 35 years, first wife of C. Carpenter. Cass married (1-MRIN:5266) Czarena A. BUCKLAND-14773 on 30 Jun 1877 in Chesaning, Chesaning, MI. Czarena was born 1852 in NY. She died 30 May 1887 in St. Charles Twp, Saginaw, MI. They had the following children: 9 M i. John CARPENTER-14774 was born Sep 1880 in St. Charles Twp, Saginaw, MI. He died 9 Oct 1940 in Pacific B1, Canada. !*John Carpenter, b. 8-1880 in St. Charles Twp., Saginaw Co., MI; d. 10-9-1940 in Pacific B1 (or Smithers), British Columbia, Canada; m. unknown (I have pictures of her visiting my grandfather after John's death, but no one can remember her name!). They had a son who may have been in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or some other Canadian law enforcement. *I am very interested in finding descendants of John! E-MAIL: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 from Mary Carpenter <mccarpenter@yahoo.com + 10 M ii. Frank Issac CARPENTER-28237 was born 20 Feb 1882 and died 29 Mar 1945. + 11 F iii. Veva Dulcenia CARPENTER-14732 was born 13 Feb 1884 and died 5 Oct 1971. + 12 F iv. Eva J. CARPENTER-14767 was born 13 Feb 1884 and died 18 Jan 1968. Cass also married (2-MRIN:5267) Minnie C. FROST-14775 on 31 Mar 1898 in Merrill, Mich. Minnie was born Jan 1870 in of, MI. They had the following children: 13 M v. Walter Cass CARPENTER-14781 was born 1901 in MI. He died 3 Oct 1926 in MI and was buried in Riverside Cem., Bellevue, MI. Fourth Generation 10. Frank Issac CARPENTER-28237 was born 20 Feb 1882 in Chesaning, Saginaw, MI. He died 29 Mar 1945 in Sparta, Kent, WI. Frank married (1-MRIN:10214) Catherine POMMERICH-28238 on 3 Feb 1909 in Fond du Lac, WI. Catherine was born 28 Sep 1886 in WI. She died 25 Aug 1965. They had the following children: 14 F i. Evelyn CARPENTER-28253 was born 4 Nov 1906 in Clark, WI. She died 1 Feb 1989. Evelyn married (1-MRIN:10219) Young WILLIAM-28255 on 18 Oct 1927. Young was born 23 Dec 1901 in MI. He died 2 Aug 1980. 15 F ii. Ione CARPENTER-28229 was born 2 Jul 1911 in Clark, WI. She died 2 Oct 1994 in Marshfield, Wood, WI. Ione married (1-MRIN:10213) Vandehey LEONARD-28232 on 16 Oct 1928. Vandehey was born 11 Apr 1909 in WI. He died 16 Nov 1987 in Wood, MI. 16 F iii. Cathryn CARPENTER-28254 was born 18 May 1913 in Clark, WI. She died 26 Nov 1995 in Abbotsford, Clark, WI. Cathryn married (1-MRIN:10217) Arlyn BRUNKHORST-28233 on 7 Sep 1935. Arlyn was born 6 Dec 1907. + 17 M iv. Frank Herman CARPENTER-28252 was born 13 May 1915 and died 10 Jul 1990. 18 F v. Marie CARPENTER-28231 was born 9 Oct 1920 in Clark, WI. Marie married (1-MRIN:10216) Myron KRAMER-28236 on 22 Nov 1945. Myron was born 10 Feb 1921 in WI. He died 23 Jun 1994 in Fond du Lac, Fond du Lac, WI. + 19 M vi. Clarence Frank CARPENTER-28230 was born 20 Sep 1922 and died 20 May 1995. 11. Veva Dulcenia CARPENTER-14732 was born 13 Feb 1884 in Chesaning, Saginaw, MI. She died 5 Oct 1971 in Battle Creek, Calhoun, MI and was buried 7 Oct 1971 in Riverside Cem., Bellevue, Eaton, MI. BIRTH: MI State Index to Births, 1884: Baby girl Carpenter, born Saginaw county. LDS Family History Center: Birth Record for Carpenter Twins, dated Feb. 13, 1884. Interestingly Eva was named but Veva was not. !CENSUS: 1900 US Census Arcada Twp., Gratiot county, MI, Village of Alma, ED 45, Pg 19 - Veva born Feb 1884, with father. In 1910 she was supposedly living with her father and had a son age 4. Not found. MARRIAGE: Certificate of Marriage: Record Number 353 - marriage date 3 July 1915 to Ray Demott age 27, his parents listed, in Battle Creek - she claimed to be 27 years old and this was her first marriage. !DEATH: Death Certificate State File Number 59668, Local File Number 1072, Veva D. DeMott, DOD Oct. 5, 1971 at 1:20 AM, age 87. DOB Feb. 13, 1884. Place of death, Calhoun county, Battle Creek, 425 West Jackson St.. Born in MI. Informant Eva Dingledine. Cause of death, Arterlosclerotic occlusion, cerebral or coronary and Arteriosclerosis generalized. Also Pharyneoesophareal Pulsion Diverriticulum. Burial at Riverside Cemetery, Bellvue, Eaton county, MI on Oct. 7, 1971. Funeral Home: Hebble's. OBIT: Battle Creek Inquirer and News, Tuesday, Oct. 5, 1971 page A-5 "Services for Mrs. Veva D. DeMott age 87 . . . Native of Chesaning . . . survived by ... daughters Eva Dingledine and Mrs. Charles Rhodes. See also Page B-7 for Funeral notice held at Maple United Methodist Church . . . Bellevue Riverside Cemetery records (MICH F574.B4 L3 1980) Pg 44: Veva D. (87) born 1884, died Battle Creek, MI. The ancestry of this family submitted by this person: John W. DeMo

I was thinking about your John Carpenter and thought of the Georgia land lotteries held (after Georgia's boundaries became finalized in 1802) that were held in 1803, 1806, 1819, 1827 and 1832. Those people living in the state for at least a year were eligible for land areas upto 400 acres in size. That your John Carpenter suddenly appears about 1804 in the current Putman county is right after the first land lottery. The Office of Secretary of State (and other locals) has the lists of the lottery participants. Putnam county was created in 1807 from Baldwin county which was created in 1803. At least one Baldwin county history book has been written per my "handybook." Baldwin county was created out of the Creek Indian Lands which was unorganized or "indian" lands. The following may be duplicative but ... "My first record of him is when he paid taxes in Hancock, GA in 1804. He entered the GA Land Lottery in 1805, as a bachelor, and drew one lot, # 866. For him to do this, he must have been in GA for at least a year. He was married around 1805 as well, I believe. His wife's name was Mary, b. ca 1790. She was believed to be Indian, Cherokee. He apparently moved, to Putnam Co., GA, paying taxes in 1815." Per Daniel Carter (below). >From what you sent me, this seems to match up with name (John), spouse's name (Mary), and location (Putnam county). See the individual data below. INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:5351 - ------------------------------------------------ Name:John CARPENTER Sex:M ID No:MTLC-XK Birth: 1764 Place:,Nash,NC Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:Amanda CARPENTER-5352 Marr:Abt 1805 Spouse:Mary-37308 Marr: Spouse: Death: 1824 Place:Newman,,GA Burial: 1824 Place:Oak Hill Cem.,Newman,,GA Father:Thomas "Jack" CARPENTER-5337 Mother:Mary LEE-5339 Notes ---------------------------------------------------- !BOOK: See page 46 (for notes) of the Mowrey 1997 book. See book information below: UPDATE OF THE GENEALOGY OF THE NEW ENGLAND CARPENTER FAMILY OF ENGLISH ORIGIN - THE VIRGINIA / WEST VIRGINIA BRANCH - SOME DESCENDANTS OF JOSEPH CARPENTER - PIONEER OF THE JACKSON RIVER - MOWREY"S VERSION. BY TERRY LEE CARPENTER AND PAUL THOMAS MOWREY. PRO BONO PUBLICO - PRIVATELY PUBLISHED, DOVER, OHIO, 1997. BY PAUL THOMAS MOWREY. Page 46: 1. John (17) Carpenter presented Solomon's discharge in Botetourt County court in February of 1780 and proved Solomon (15)'s Ranger service. He was identified as "son of Thomas Carpenter and heir of Solomon Carpenter" on this date and was issued a warrant for 60 acres of land as such. This relationship was restated in another Botetourt County court case on 5 May 1791. Brother Reuben, this John & grandson of Reuben Thomas were listed on the 1803 GA tax roll. In 1805 Henry, John & Thomas were listed in the Lincoln Co. Georgia Land Lottery. E-MAIL: Subj: Carpenter GEDCOM Date: 99-03-19 20:44:17 EST From: dcarter@mylink.net (Daniel Carter) To: jrcrin001@aol.com Hi, sorry I did not supply enough information in my first E-mail. Here is what I have on him: John CARPENTER, b. ca. 1773 in VA. My first record of him is when he paid taxes in Hancock, GA in 1804. He entered the GA Land Lottery in 1805, as a batchelor, and drew one lot, # 866. For him to do this, he must have been in GA for at least a year. He was married around 1805 as well, I believe. His wifes name was Mary, b. ca 1790. She was believed to be Indian, Cherokee. He apparently moved, to Putnam Co., GA, paying taxes in 1815. He entered the 1820 GA Land Lottery, having two draws, receiving his land in Irving and Early County Districts. He was enumerated on the 1820 Federal census of Hancock Co., GA. He was shown with his wife Mary, five boys and four girls: Hamilton Carpenter, b. ca. 1808, Deborah Carpenter, b. ca. 1810, George W.Carpenter, b. ca. 1811, Nancy Carpenter, b. ca. 1813, Bical Carpenter, b. ca. 1814, John Carpenter, b. 1815, Eleazar "Eli" Carpenter, b. 1816, James Carpenter, b. 1817, Sarah H. Carpenter, b. 1825. John Carpenter died around 1839. Mary died ca. 1857. Hope this information helps. it is all I have on he and his wife. I have plenty on the children and the resulting families. I am descended from Hamilton. Thank you for responding, Daniel Carter. end notes I hope this helps and is not too duplicative. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA WyleneL@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/23/99 12:03:50 PM Central Daylight Time, > jrcrin001@home.com writes: > > << > I encourage everyone to submit a piece of the puzzle from any source you > find (don't forget to cite). Feel free to ask questions. Many > clarifications and errors have been corrected this way. > >> > > Here is my brick wall, John Carpenter listed below. I like to never have > found him listed in 1850 in the census index because I was told he was in > Upson Co., GA. But no Carpenters were listed in Upson Co., GA that year. I > finally discovered a big error and Upson Co., GA was listed as Richmond Co., > GA. > Below are the few things I know about my John Carpenter, I have been working > on this family for 35 years.........he just suddenly appeared in Putman Co., > GA about 1804, nothing at all before that. > > Descendants of John Carpenter > > Generation No. 1 > > 1. JOHN1 CARPENTER was born Abt. 1773 in Virginia, and died June 12, 1839 in > Upson Co., GA.. He married MARY Bet. 1802 - 1805 in Possibly GA. She was > born 1790 in N.C., and died 1854 in Upson Co., GA.. > > More About JOHN CARPENTER: > Fact 1: 1804, John Carpenter paid land taxes in Hancock County, Ga in > 1804. > Fact 2: 1805, He entered the Land Lottery in 1805, but drew a blank, so he > recieved no land. > Fact 3: 1815, John paid land taxes in Putnam Co., GA in 1815. > Fact 4: 1820, John was enumerated in 1820 Census in Hancock Co., GA. > with a wife, 5 sons, and 1 dau > Fact 5: 1820, He entered the 1820 Land Lottery and had 2 draws. > Fact 6: 1824, 6 July 1824 John Carpenter and a John Bell purchased > lot #82, drawn by Sheldon Farrow. > Fact 7: 1825, In 1825 John pd $70 toJohn Bell for a quick claim deed, > written on back of 1st deed. > Fact 8: 1830, John and fam. in Putnam Co., Ga in 1830. John moved to Upson > Co., GA in 1832. > Fact 9: 1880, His son George W. Carpenter on the 1880 Steward Co. Ga. > census stated his father was born in VA. > > Children of JOHN CARPENTER and MARY were: > i. FEMALE2 CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1806, Georgia. > > More About FEMALE CARPENTER: > Burial: died young > > 2. ii. HAMILTON (Parks) CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1808, Georgia; d. > Bet. 1864 - 1865, Upson Co., Georgia. > 3. iii. DEBORAH CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1810, Hancock Co., Georgia; d. > Aft. 1870, Schley Co., Georgia. > 4. iv. GEORGE W. CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1811, Georgia; d. Aft. 1880, > Stewert Co., Georgia. > v. NANCY CARPENTER, b. Bet. 1812 - 1813, Georgia; d. > June 30, 1855, Milledgeville, Ga. > > More About NANCY CARPENTER: > In 1850, Nancy was listed as an idiot. > She was admitted to the Georgia State Mental Hospital, on 24th April > 1855. > It was stated "she is 40 yrs old, 1st symtoms manifested 10 yrs ago > decidedly insane 8 yrs ago. cause unknown, disease hereditary > no prominent delusions, is not apparently in a state of dementia, > general health > had a broken arm, has elephantiasis, destructive to clothing > but often attemps to injure others etc." She d. 2 mo. after > admittance. > > vi. BICAL CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1814; m. PLEASANT SPEARS, January > 14, 1838, Upson Co., Georgia; b. Abt. 1815. > > More About BICAL CARPENTER: > We have no record of Bical after the estate sale following her father's death. > > 5. vii. JOHN CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1815, Georgia; d. Aft. 1867, Georgia. > 6. viii. ELEAZER 'ELY' 'ELI' CARPENTER, b. 1816, GA., prob. Putnam > Co.; d. October 03, 1864, Baltimore, Md.. > 7. ix. JAMES CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1817, Georgia; d. Bef. 1850. > x. CAIN CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1824, Georgia. > xi. JACKSON CARPENTER, b. Abt. 1825, Georgia. > > Generation No. 2 > > 2. HAMILTON2 CARPENTER (JOHN1) was born Abt. 1808 in Georgia, and died Bet. > 1864 - 1865 in Upson Co., Georgia. He married BERTHENA E. NORRIS March 03, > 1845 in Harris County, Georgia, daughter of SAMUEL NORRIS and ELIZABETH > PENTON. She was born Abt. 1825 in Georgia, and died Aft. 1880 in Upson Co., > Georgia. > > Children of HAMILTON CARPENTER and BERTHENA NORRIS are: > 8. i. CALVIN3 CARPENTER, b. 1847, Upson Co., Georgia. > 9. ii. GREENVILLE N. CARPENTER, b. 1848, Upson Co., Georgia; > d. Oklahoma City, OK. > iii. DEBORAH A. E. CARPENTER, b. 1850. > iv. JAMES T. CARPENTER, b. 1851. > v. B. ANN CARPENTER, b. 1853. > vi. LYDIA A. D. CARPENTER, b. 1855. > vii. HAMILTON PARKS CARPENTER, b. 1857. > > viii. JOHN G. CARPENTER, b. 1859. > ix. JEFFERSON J. (Jeff) CARPENTER, b. 1868. > > > > 3. DEBORAH2 CARPENTER (JOHN1) was born Abt. 1810 in Hancock Co., Georgia, > and died Aft. 1870 in Schley Co., Georgia. She married WILLIAM HICKEY > January 01, 1837 in Upson Co., Georgia. He was born Abt. 1812 in Georgia, > and died Aft. 1885 in Schley Co., Georgia. > > Children of DEBORAH CARPENTER and WILLIAM HICKEY are: > i. MARY ANN C.3 HICKEY, b. 1839, Upson Co., Georgia; m. GILLMORE. > ii. BENJAMIN G. HICKEY, b. Bet. 1842 - 1843. > > Private in Co. G, 5th Reg., GA Vol., Army of TN, CSA, Schley Co. GA, 11 May > 1861 > 31 Dec 1864, he was shown absent with out leave. No later record. > > iii. CAROLINE E. HICKEY, b. 1844, Upson Co., Georgia; m. HEAM. > > 4. GEORGE W.2 CARPENTER (JOHN1) was born Abt. 1811 in Georgia, and died Aft. > 1880 in Stewert Co., Georgia. He married ELIZABETH LOUISA WALLACE January > 05, 1832 in Putman Co., Georgia, daughter of BAALAM WALLACE and ELIZABETH > CLEMENTS. She was born Abt. 1814 in Georgia, and died Aft. 1880 in Stewert > Co., Georgia. > > More About GEORGE W. CARPENTER: > Burial: Cedarwood Cemetery, Richland, GA. > > More About ELIZABETH LOUISA WALLACE: > Burial: Cedarwood Cemetery, Richland, GA. > > Children of GEORGE CARPENTER and ELIZABETH WALLACE are: > 10. i. JESSE3 CARPENTER, b. 1832, Georgia. > ii. GEORGE CARPENTER, b. 1835, Georgia. > > He may have settle in Arkansas, if not Texas. > > 11. iii. SARAH A. CARPENTER, b. April 30, 1837, Georgia; d. November > 23, 1903, prob. Stewert Co., GA. > 12. iv. JOHN J. CARPENTER, b. June 04, 1841, Georgia; d. November 23, > 1903, McLennan Co., TX. > v. LOUISA CARPENTER, b. 1843, Georgia. > 13. vi. DIADIMONA E. CARPENTER, b. July 06, 1844, Georgia; d. January > 10, 1884. > 14. vii. ISABELLA MISSOURI CARPENTER, b. 1846, Georgia. > viii. MARY ETTA HARRIETT MORGANELLA CARPENTER, b. July 26, 1848, > Georgia; m. HENRY H. KENDIRICK; b. November 23, 1843; d. January 02, 1923. > ix. SOPHIA CARPENTER, b. 1850, Georgia; m. D. W. HARVEY. > x. ETHELDOR CARPENTER, b. 1854, Georgia. > xi. VICTORIA CARPENTER, b. May 12, 1854, Georgia; d. > January 28, 1898; m. S. T. HARRY. > xii. EMMA ANNA CARPENTER, b. 1856, Georgia; d. November 12, 1923; > m. CHALKLEY. > > 5. JOHN2 CARPENTER (JOHN1) was born Abt. 1815 in Georgia, and died Aft. 1867 > in Georgia. He married SARAH CUMMINGS August 23, 1846 in Upson Co., Georgia, > daughter of STEPHEN CUMMINGS. She was born Bet. 1825 - 1831 in Georgia, and > died Aft. 1880. > In 1850 John was listed as the head of household, with wife Sarah, > son Napoleon, his mother Mary and his sister Nancy was also listed in his > household. > John was listed as insane. In 1860, John was in the household of his bro. > Ely in Randolph Co., AL. > > In 1860, Sarah and Napoleon were in the household of W. R. Jarrold. > Sarah was listed as a domestic. > > > Child of JOHN CARPENTER and SARAH CUMMINGS is: > i. NAPOLEON3 CARPENTER, b. 1847, Georgia. > > 6. ELEAZER 'ELY' 'ELI'2 CARPENTER (JOHN1) was born 1816 in GA., prob. Putnam > Co., and died October 03, 1864 in Baltimore, Md.. He married ANNZENA NORRIS > May 10, 1846 in Tallapoosa Co., AL., daughter of SAMUEL NORRIS and ELIZABETH > PENTON. She was born March 1831 in GA., and died 1900 in OK.. > > More About ELEAZER 'ELY' 'ELI' CARPENTER: > Burial: November 01, 1864, B-46 Louden Park Cem., Confederate Lot, Baltimore, > MD. > Eleazar was listed in the Upson Co., GA Tax Digest in 1850, and the > 1850 Upson Co., Ga Census. > He purchased land in Chambers Co., AL 25th Feb 1856, deed was > recorded in Randolph Co. AL > He was in Chambers Co. Al in 1860, but on Randolph Co. census.(this > was because of the path of creeks and rivers.) > He volunteered ( Conscripted) for service and was mustered into Co. > B, 64th GA Reg. Inf. CSA, as pvt > > Children of ELEAZER CARPENTER and ANNZENA NORRIS are: > 15. i. MARY ANN3 CARPENTER, b. September 15, 1847, Ga; d. Bef. 1900, > prob. Tallapoosa Co., AL. > ii. JULEY ELLENDER 'DILLY' CARPENTER, b. July 19, 1848, GA.; d. > September 01, 1858, GA.. > > She was listed in the 1850 Upson Co., Ga census with parents. > She is also listed in an old Bible record as Juley Ellender. > > 16. iii. WILLIAM CICERO CARPENTER, b. August 01, 1850, Upson Co., GA.; > d. May 25, 1931, Hico, Hamilton Co., Texas. > 17. iv. ALONZO CICERO CARPENTER, b. January 10, 1852, Upson Co., Ga; > d. January 28, 1936, Cordell, Washita Co, Ok. > 18. v. VICTORIA LAURA ELIZABETH CARPENTER, b. December 1855, > Alabama; d. December 31, 1906, Navarro Co., Texas. > 19. vi. JAMES SAMUEL CARPENTER, b. May 11, 1856, Fayette, Chambers > Co, Al; d. June 02, 1925, Clinton, Custer Co, Ok, T.B.Sanitarium. > vii. JOHN HAMILTON CARPENTER, b. April 27, 1859. > > 7. JAMES2 CARPENTER (JOHN1) was born Abt. 1817 in Georgia, and died Bef. > 1850. He married IRENE NORRIS January 10, 1848 in Troup Co., Georgia, > daughter of SAMUEL NORRIS and ELIZABETH PENTON. She was born Abt. 1827 in > Georgia. > > Child of JAMES CARPENTER and IRENE NORRIS is: > i. SARAH A.3 CARPENTER, b. 1848, Alabama; m. JAMES D. GREER, > November 06, 1865, Tallapossa Co., Alabama.

In my previous letter I gave reasons to dismiss the Leskard, Cornwall Sir John Carpenter as the progenitor of the London Carpenters and Town Clerk John Carpenter. It was suggested that this Sir John could certainly be the Sir John that appears Many times in early 1300s documents, with many land holdings close to London. It was also demonstrated previously that his wife held an estate from Queen Philippa, the lady of destiny in English history, who brought many of her countrymen to England, some of them becoming knights in the service of the crown, like Sir Walter Maunay. If you saw Sir Walter’s name in a list you would assume he was an Englishman. In reality he was a Fleming with an anglofied name. Our Sir John Carpenter might easily have been a Sir Jean le Carpentier. He had a father John. It was shown previously that a Jean le Carpenter was among a select group given the rights to export wool in 1273. Jean had to be a true ‘bigwig’ with money going to all the right places, as had to be Sir John Carpenter with all his lands held from King Edward lll and consort Queen Philippa. Money and power! Money and power! History can be a better tool than strict genealogy. Sincerely’ Professor Bruce E. Carpenter

In a message dated 7/27/99 9:34:15 PM Central Daylight Time, mike@netking.net writes: << Hello, Jan My name is Debra Carpenter, was wondering about the newspaper clipping? Am still digging into my line but somewhere I have seen some of your names, will try to find them, and send you what I have. Could you tell me about the newspaper? Thanks Debra >> The Newspaper is "The Evening News." Dated Detroit, Saturday, August 23, 1873. It states: "The New York Tribune, in response to the Milwaukee Evening Wisconsin, on the Senator Carpenter scandal, says that the Tribune makes no charges that can not be substantiated, and hopes that if Mr. Carpenter has been aggrieved by anything that has appeared in its columns he will resort to his remedy at law; and the Tribune being a journal of ample pecuniary responsibility, whatever damage a jury of his countrymen shall say he has sustained will be promptly paid. More than that, the Tribune will gladly pay any sum that may be so assessed in damages to be convinced that the life and conduct of Mr. Matt Carpenter are such as may be held up for an example, instead of a warning to the young men of the country. For proof of that the Tribune is willing to pay liberally. " In another location of the same paper: under "POLITICAL NOTES": "A serious attempt is being made to kill off President Grant. The Rutland Globe alludes to the failing health of Vice President Wilson, and his possible death, and expresses it's horror at seeing Matt. Carpenter, as President of the Senate, so near to the White House. The New York Tribune has also been studying the law of decent in the case, and shows that in the event of Grant, Wilson and Carpenter all dying the country would have to get along without a chief magistrate till Congress meets in December. Now this speculating on the effect of men's deaths is just the way to kill them. the human mind is eculiar, and if the very knowledge that their decease is a matter of discussion on every street corner is not in itself sufficient to worry out the vital spark, there are plenty of insane Ravalliacs and Booths in the country who would jump at the chance to gain themselves "a mission", which the mere suggestion afforded. Three Presidents have died in office within a quarter of a century. If we were Grant we should increase our life insurance forthwith. By the way, Grant still lacks a week of completing the first six months of his second term, yet the subject of his successor in 1877 is already discussed by the topic-starved public press. etc.etc.etc... Kind of interesting? Now where does Matt Carpenter fit into the Carpenter Clan? Anybody? Jan Gumpysfarm@aol.com