Donna, Have you checked the 1920 Federal Census for PA? Or the 1910 Federal Census Or the 1915 PA State Census? John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA SlwHand110@aol.com wrote: > > I have one for u, and been hitting a road block with it concerning the > Carpenter family, which is also in my Cantrell family line. I have a Robert > Edward Carpenter Whom married a Mary A. Taylor in Chester Pennsylvania ... > but since none of the family here remembers any dates, as to when, I don't > have any dates of birth, death, or the marriage.... I was told that Mary A. > Taylor was either born in Rock Island Illinois or in Chester Pa. I have tried > every search engine possible and nothing. Its like they never excised! There > were five children born.Their children were: 1)Son died in infancy 2) William > m- Martha he died in Southern Fla. 3) Bernard Robert b- 8 Feb, 1918 m- > Virginia Farina , and then later moved to Newark NJ, where their five > children were born. 4) James resides in Louisville Kentucky 5) Vincent m- > Loretta he died in New Jersey. ( all born in Chester Pa) If you can help, it > will be most appreciated, and very helpful. I am at a crossroads and not > moving at all with the Carpenters..Appricate any help. > thank u and god bless, > Donna
Is this list for ONLY the ancestry of John Carpenter Town Clerk of London? Geez, Bruce. This was a bit harsh. Not all of us are natural born genealogists. I sure hope my side of Carps aren't the same as yours, or then I'd have to turn into a troll watching the mailing lists! (JUST KIDDING!) Be a gentleman and brighten up! Betty Carpenter-McCulloch >I am sure Tony and family are nice people, but the fact is they have nothing >to contribute to the history of the ancestry of the family of John Carpenter >Town Clerk >of London. >For yourself, I feel you have much to contribute in the compilation of more >modern >genealogical data. You have a passion for it. That being said, I feel you >should >avoid anything before 1300. Your data is all wrong. I have told you this >before. >If you had the right training, languages and time to spend in >Oxford, Cambridge and Paris libraries, you might begin to approach >the true story. This subject of a medeival family is too difficult for you. >Stick with the modern side of it. >Even in an entirely inadequate medieval library collection, like the one >here at the University >of Washington, I was able to compile data you hadn't imagined. What will >I find when I spend six months at the library of Oxford University? I >suspect >it would be much more in the same vein of what I have discovered already. >Be a gentleman and admit you mistakes. > >Sincerely, >Bruce E. Carpenter >professor > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001@home.com> >To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com <CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com> >Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 5:14 PM >Subject: Re: Present English Carpenters > > >>Dear Bruce, >> >>Of the present day Carpenters in England, many can not trace their >>ancestry back more than a couple of hundred years. Some are descendant >>of the French Hugenots, a later group of French Carpentiers, some who >>were woodwrights that became Carpenter and even some American Loyalsts >>who settled in England instead of Canada. >> >>A few lines however have some pretty good documentation and lineage back >>to the same ancestors of the New England Carpenter line in England. >>Such is the case of Tony Carpenter's ancestry in England. >> >>Tony Carpenter's family has had a couple of generations of his family >>interested in genealogy. His ancestry data is pretty darn good. He >>also does not have the biases of the American Carpenters who have read >>or looked at the American versions of Carpenter ancestry. >> >>Tony also has dabbled in Coat of Arms in stained glass among other >>things. From the documentation from his web page, he seems quite >>intelligent, responsible and open minded. Let me quote from a very >>small part of his personal history ... >> >>"On leaving the army, returned to my trade soon became foreman, manager, >>then owned my own electrical business. Finally became an electrical >>consultant." AND >> >>"I became a member of The Soceity of Patentees and inventors, as well as >>several other engineering soceities, far too many to mention here. One >>of my inventions was a method of engraving glass. This was the base of >>my business, The Compleat Engaver International." AND >> >>"I am retired now and spend my days involved in all forms of art >>including painting, woodcarving, Playwriting, poetry and even the start >>of a novel. I am currently teaching art in the local village hall and >>hope to put together a computer programme based on the course. 'learn to >>paint watercolours from your computer'. I also designed a card game, >>based on Golf, which one day I hope to get professionally produced, as >>the family think it better than Trivial Pursuit! >>I believe I was lucky to be born into this great Family of Carpenters, a >>Family name to be proud of. I hope that all you that bear this name feel >>the same. I can remember my Grandfather, who was an old soldier, saying >>to me 'Never dishonor the name of Carpenter, bear it with pride as you >>would a medal'." >> >>I agree that the name of CARPENTER is honorable and a name to be proud >>of. We should all be proud of this ancient name. >> >> >>Personaly, his insights and approach to the Carpenter puzzle is very >>refreshing. >> >>Oh, by the way, Gill (short for Gillian) is Tony's spouse. Tony feels >>blessed by her and her partnership in life. Tony signs his name as >>"Tony" at the end of every message. >> >>A Carpenter Cousin, >> >>John R. Carpenter >>La Mesa, CA USA >> >>Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: >>> >>> Is Gill Carpenter in England any relation to we Rehoboth >>> Carpenters in the US? He seems to be eager to speak for all Carpenters in >>> England (and us as well), but surely no more than a fraction of the >>> Carpenters left in England have any genetic connection to one another. By >>> the 1300 there were all manner of unconnected people using the surname >>> Carpenter. It was also a popular alias for criminals. Then there were the >>> countless hammer and nails carpenters who used their profession as a >>> surname. In English historical records there are countless examples of >these >>> people, whose deluded descendants now think they are part of some ancient >>> lineage. >>> Thanks to excellent Massachusettss records I can trace my ancestors back >to >>> the 1500s with certainty. Few people in England, outside the aristocracy, >>> can do this. The Carpenter >>> Line back from Town Clerk John was a denizen merchant family unrelated >to >>> all the other peasants with the surname in England. Any individual who >wants >>> you to believe the Carpenters of England are a grand big family is a >>> nutcase. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Bruce E. Carpenter >> > > >
John: I am sure Tony and family are nice people, but the fact is they have nothing to contribute to the history of the ancestry of the family of John Carpenter Town Clerk of London. For yourself, I feel you have much to contribute in the compilation of more modern genealogical data. You have a passion for it. That being said, I feel you should avoid anything before 1300. Your data is all wrong. I have told you this before. If you had the right training, languages and time to spend in Oxford, Cambridge and Paris libraries, you might begin to approach the true story. This subject of a medeival family is too difficult for you. Stick with the modern side of it. Even in an entirely inadequate medieval library collection, like the one here at the University of Washington, I was able to compile data you hadn't imagined. What will I find when I spend six months at the library of Oxford University? I suspect it would be much more in the same vein of what I have discovered already. Be a gentleman and admit you mistakes. Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter professor -----Original Message----- From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001@home.com> To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com <CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Present English Carpenters >Dear Bruce, > >Of the present day Carpenters in England, many can not trace their >ancestry back more than a couple of hundred years. Some are descendant >of the French Hugenots, a later group of French Carpentiers, some who >were woodwrights that became Carpenter and even some American Loyalsts >who settled in England instead of Canada. > >A few lines however have some pretty good documentation and lineage back >to the same ancestors of the New England Carpenter line in England. >Such is the case of Tony Carpenter's ancestry in England. > >Tony Carpenter's family has had a couple of generations of his family >interested in genealogy. His ancestry data is pretty darn good. He >also does not have the biases of the American Carpenters who have read >or looked at the American versions of Carpenter ancestry. > >Tony also has dabbled in Coat of Arms in stained glass among other >things. From the documentation from his web page, he seems quite >intelligent, responsible and open minded. Let me quote from a very >small part of his personal history ... > >"On leaving the army, returned to my trade soon became foreman, manager, >then owned my own electrical business. Finally became an electrical >consultant." AND > >"I became a member of The Soceity of Patentees and inventors, as well as >several other engineering soceities, far too many to mention here. One >of my inventions was a method of engraving glass. This was the base of >my business, The Compleat Engaver International." AND > >"I am retired now and spend my days involved in all forms of art >including painting, woodcarving, Playwriting, poetry and even the start >of a novel. I am currently teaching art in the local village hall and >hope to put together a computer programme based on the course. 'learn to >paint watercolours from your computer'. I also designed a card game, >based on Golf, which one day I hope to get professionally produced, as >the family think it better than Trivial Pursuit! >I believe I was lucky to be born into this great Family of Carpenters, a >Family name to be proud of. I hope that all you that bear this name feel >the same. I can remember my Grandfather, who was an old soldier, saying >to me 'Never dishonor the name of Carpenter, bear it with pride as you >would a medal'." > >I agree that the name of CARPENTER is honorable and a name to be proud >of. We should all be proud of this ancient name. > > >Personaly, his insights and approach to the Carpenter puzzle is very >refreshing. > >Oh, by the way, Gill (short for Gillian) is Tony's spouse. Tony feels >blessed by her and her partnership in life. Tony signs his name as >"Tony" at the end of every message. > >A Carpenter Cousin, > >John R. Carpenter >La Mesa, CA USA > >Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: >> >> Is Gill Carpenter in England any relation to we Rehoboth >> Carpenters in the US? He seems to be eager to speak for all Carpenters in >> England (and us as well), but surely no more than a fraction of the >> Carpenters left in England have any genetic connection to one another. By >> the 1300 there were all manner of unconnected people using the surname >> Carpenter. It was also a popular alias for criminals. Then there were the >> countless hammer and nails carpenters who used their profession as a >> surname. In English historical records there are countless examples of these >> people, whose deluded descendants now think they are part of some ancient >> lineage. >> Thanks to excellent Massachusettss records I can trace my ancestors back to >> the 1500s with certainty. Few people in England, outside the aristocracy, >> can do this. The Carpenter >> Line back from Town Clerk John was a denizen merchant family unrelated to >> all the other peasants with the surname in England. Any individual who wants >> you to believe the Carpenters of England are a grand big family is a >> nutcase. >> >> Sincerely, >> Bruce E. Carpenter >
Dear Bruce, You wrote: "It was suggested to me that what I have presented thus far for connections between the historical individuals I have discussed is opinion. This is outrageous. There are so few surviving documents from this period, that any assertion must be circumstantial by nature." Any assertion that is circumstantial by nature without any other evidence to support it must be a theory, or in others words an opinion or speculation. You have not proved circumstantial evidence or indirect evidence by any other facts supporting person A was the son or father of person B. You have not supplied an overwhelming case, but one of speculation. Because of the so few surviving documents, one can only suppose, or speculate or give opinion until some document (like a will or such) comes forth as proof. The bits and pieces of history that you have presented to this forum are valuable in the setting of the Carpenter Family puzzle. They provide clues but not proof that person A was related to person B. Your theory of the Carpenters not being related to nobility (at this time) but to merchants is interesting. But you also forget that nobles controlled the trade and made a great deal of money in it. Sincerely, An uneducated peasant with an Honorable Name ... John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > With the help of Anne Crawfords book A History of the Vintners Company, a > good many of Carpenter family loose ends can be settled. Crawford tells us > that the main organization of London wine-merchants was known as the Mistery > of the Vintners, a curious enough name. The Mistery was not only involved > in the importation of wines, but also the retail end. In other words > important members of the club controlled and owned taverns. Law forbade non- > members of the Mistery to sell Bordeaux wine. A number of weeks ago I > published documents concerning none other than Bishop John Carpenter or > Worcester himself as an owner of two taverns. At the time I was surprised by > this, but no longer. Let any doubts as to the family identity of this > interesting man from now on be laid to rest. > Another loose end is Town Clerk Johns wife Kathrine and her connection to > St. Botolphs church. This church was a favorite charity for the Mistery. > Also connected to the Mistery were properties on Fleetstreet, and again > Blackfriars, which appears in Town Clerk Johns will. An additional point > gleaned from Crawford is that important Mistery importers often had other > professional designations. Thus a dealer in pepper might be a behind the > scenes Mistery wine importer. This is important to remember in respect to > chaundeler Richard on Fleetstreet. > > Finally, a note on the nature of evidence in a medieval history discussion: > It was suggested to me that what I have presented thus far for connections > between the historical individuals I have discussed is opinion. This is > outrageous. There are so few surviving documents from this period, that any > assertion must be circumstantial by nature. This shows a lack of education > in the individual in question. The evidence I have gathered makes an > overwhelming case. Again I repeat, it is time to abandon the knights and > ladies mindset, and begin the investigation of this merchant family in > earnest. > > Sincerely, > Bruce E. Carpenter > professor
Dear Bruce, Of the present day Carpenters in England, many can not trace their ancestry back more than a couple of hundred years. Some are descendant of the French Hugenots, a later group of French Carpentiers, some who were woodwrights that became Carpenter and even some American Loyalsts who settled in England instead of Canada. A few lines however have some pretty good documentation and lineage back to the same ancestors of the New England Carpenter line in England. Such is the case of Tony Carpenter's ancestry in England. Tony Carpenter's family has had a couple of generations of his family interested in genealogy. His ancestry data is pretty darn good. He also does not have the biases of the American Carpenters who have read or looked at the American versions of Carpenter ancestry. Tony also has dabbled in Coat of Arms in stained glass among other things. From the documentation from his web page, he seems quite intelligent, responsible and open minded. Let me quote from a very small part of his personal history ... "On leaving the army, returned to my trade soon became foreman, manager, then owned my own electrical business. Finally became an electrical consultant." AND "I became a member of The Soceity of Patentees and inventors, as well as several other engineering soceities, far too many to mention here. One of my inventions was a method of engraving glass. This was the base of my business, The Compleat Engaver International." AND "I am retired now and spend my days involved in all forms of art including painting, woodcarving, Playwriting, poetry and even the start of a novel. I am currently teaching art in the local village hall and hope to put together a computer programme based on the course. 'learn to paint watercolours from your computer'. I also designed a card game, based on Golf, which one day I hope to get professionally produced, as the family think it better than Trivial Pursuit! I believe I was lucky to be born into this great Family of Carpenters, a Family name to be proud of. I hope that all you that bear this name feel the same. I can remember my Grandfather, who was an old soldier, saying to me 'Never dishonor the name of Carpenter, bear it with pride as you would a medal'." I agree that the name of CARPENTER is honorable and a name to be proud of. We should all be proud of this ancient name. Personaly, his insights and approach to the Carpenter puzzle is very refreshing. Oh, by the way, Gill (short for Gillian) is Tony's spouse. Tony feels blessed by her and her partnership in life. Tony signs his name as "Tony" at the end of every message. A Carpenter Cousin, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > Is Gill Carpenter in England any relation to we Rehoboth > Carpenters in the US? He seems to be eager to speak for all Carpenters in > England (and us as well), but surely no more than a fraction of the > Carpenters left in England have any genetic connection to one another. By > the 1300 there were all manner of unconnected people using the surname > Carpenter. It was also a popular alias for criminals. Then there were the > countless hammer and nails carpenters who used their profession as a > surname. In English historical records there are countless examples of these > people, whose deluded descendants now think they are part of some ancient > lineage. > Thanks to excellent Massachusettss records I can trace my ancestors back to > the 1500s with certainty. Few people in England, outside the aristocracy, > can do this. The Carpenter > Line back from Town Clerk John was a denizen merchant family unrelated to > all the other peasants with the surname in England. Any individual who wants > you to believe the Carpenters of England are a grand big family is a > nutcase. > > Sincerely, > Bruce E. Carpenter
Dear Chuck, Yep, we look the same over the internet! ;) I'm 5' 9 1/2" tall with a 44 inch chest and a beard. I'm also mostly salt (mostly) and pepper. Another way we are the same is - I wrestle juvenile delinquints for a living and John L. wrestles abnoxious veterans. The difference is the age. <GG> John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA C.A.Carpenter ( Chuck's Wood-Knots) wrote: > > >By and by, my name is John R. Carpenter from La Mesa, CA. > >John L. Carpenter is a Carpenter Researcher from NH. I know it is hard > >to keep us apart because we look so much alike. > > > >Take care Cousin, > > > >John R. Carpenter > >La Mesa, CA USA > > You look like John in NH? Oh God..... > > :)
An excellent explanation of the concentration of Carpenters in Yorkshire is best given by Anne Crawford in her essential A History of the Vintners Company. She says: It was his (King Edward l) great charter of 1302 which weighted the balance firmly in favor of his Gascon subjects. It allowed them to live where they liked instead of with a denizen (or native host) and to sell their wine wholesale to whom they pleased. (Pp. 16-17) Thus the reason the Gascon Carpenters collected themselves in the Yorkshire area was one of law. They lived in a sort of trade ghetto. Also Crawford explains the great number of violence related court dispositions of these Carpenters. A kind of war had broken out between the English merchants and the now favored Gascons. A great number of murders took place. The records still exist and there were apparently economic motives and causes. Also Crawford explains how a denizen resident of London like Edward Carpenter (Eduard le Carpentier) was a true power broker. Then he was in a very privileged position indeed, she says.
-- >This disease also surfaced in the colonial English Catholic community here >in Southern Maryland. I met a woman a couple of years ago at a local >genealogical conference. She was working on a project tracing the disease >for Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. Unfortunately, some years back the >"enlightened" local health officials refused to allow a study of the >disease in St. Mary's County, so the Johns Hopkins study went to the >Catholic area of central Kentucky .. Marion, Nelson & Washington counties >.. & did the study there. Most of the same Catholic family names in >Southern Maryland show up in that section of Kentucky {& in smaller >Catholic settlements in southern Indiana, Missouri, & Texas} .. I ran a >short article on this subject in our local genealogical society's >newsletter & suggested to our members with ancestry in this early English >Catholic cluster to check w/ their doctor about Huntington's disease. It is >very common in this area .. a close friend of mine has it all thru' his >father's family .. from Southern Maryland. >I suppose in any area that was isolated for many generations {by >geography, religion, etc.}, these sorts of diseases can crop up. > >---------- >> From: Honor Conklin <hconklin@MAIL.NYSED.GOV> >> To: LI-Rooters@genexchange.com >> Subject: [LI-Rooters] Rattray's article >> Date: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 8:21 AM >> >> In the article posted yesterday by Helen Rattray "A Village at Odds >with it's Glamour," it mentions Huntington's (chorea) in regard to our >ancestors marrying each other over the generations. I have read of this >degenerative disease in regards to the Guthrie family and how it was >tracked in South America but I wasn't aware of it being especially >prevalent on Long Island. Does anyone know of any books or articles that >specifically explore the disease at it relates to Long Island families, >especially early generations? >> I know that there has been informal tracking of lupus in the John >Concklin of Flushing and Rye line which may also be found in some of the >Ananias Conklin line, (coincidence or an indicator that they are indeed >blood relations). >> I would be interested in any books or articles that track Lupus to >early Long Island or Westchester County families, as well. >> >> >> Honor Conklin >> hconklin@mail.nysed.gov >> >> >> ----------------------- >> How To Unsubscribe: http://www.genexchange.com/faq.cfm >> >> NYGenExchange >> http://www.genexchange.com/ny/index.cfm >> >> Emigrant Savings Bank Records Project >> http://www.genexchange.com/ny/Emigrant.CFM >----------------------- >How To Unsubscribe: http://www.genexchange.com/faq.cfm > >NYGenExchange >http://www.genexchange.com/ny/index.cfm > >Emigrant Savings Bank Records Project >http://www.genexchange.com/ny/Emigrant.CFM >
In the Carpenter Memorial page 101 Greenwood Carpenter ( #488) son of Ezra Carpenter of Swanzey,Cheshire NH It stated he moved to Swanzey NH prob ably " After the Death of his first wife Sarah ( Sally) Leathers of Charlestown ,Mass. The truth is she walked out on him and the children ,Married with someone and had a child with him .In 1771 ,Greenwood ,Petitioned the General Assembly of NH for a a Divorce and on April 5th was granted . " The said Greenwood Carpenter, is hereby Declared to be at liberty to Marry again as tho' the said Sarah was Deceased . " Must been passed on that sally had died. further text avail if anyone interested. This was the 2 nd such divorcee in the colonial colony of New Hampshire the other was in 1703 Not a Carpenter. John in NH Breaking up Was hard to do then John L. Carpenter Searching for Carpenter family decendants of William Carpenter of Providence, RI check my home pages at the following URL's http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/c/a/r/John-L-Carpenter/index.html http://expage.com/page/carpenterlinks
A Flemish origin for the London Carpenters was a matter I had long assumed. Their ultimate beginnings may indeed have been Flemish, but an overwhelming amount of evidence now exists that points to a Gascon origin in the 1200s. Gascony in France at this time was actually an English possession, known as the Duchy of Aquitaine (please consult your encyclopedia). The Gascons dominated the importation of wine into England. The combined profits with taxes provided a major source of income for the crown. Eduard le Carpentier and a group of other Carpenters were first encountered in a curious salvage court case concerning a French ship in 1293. This year was the beginning of armed conflict between France and Gascony, thus suggesting a Gascon connection for Eduard, rather than a Flemish one. Eduard, I later discoved, seemed to be connected to a large group of Gascons in Yorkshire, a major trading center. Peter le Charpenter, an important 1200s merchant from St. Jean dAngeley in Gascony, was also a resident of Yorkshire. The other influential appearing knight, Sir John Carpenter, was found to be in the service of a Sir John St. John, the Seneshal of Gascony. In other words the crown repeatedly sent Sir John St. John to Aquitaine on administrative matters. Surely Sir St. John took along his knight Jean le Carpentier, a Gascon fluent in local affairs. An extensive Carpenter involvement in English-Gascon affairs is not difficult to imagine. Right from the beginning the Carpenters seemed to know what they were doing. They made money and then they bought power. This pattern, as you recall from my earlier research, extended for another century and a half to the Lancastrian royal cause. In addition I discovered an extensive series of court cases dealing with denizen Charpenters in various towns in Yorkshire port towns. This suggests to me a large group of families by 1300s that had grown from three or more individuals in the mid 1200s. Where the Carpenter thread leads back from Gascony I do not know. However, one excellent hint exists. The town of St. Jean dAngely traditionally had ties with Rouen in Normandy. Rouen was the center for Norman business dealings. Norman traders controlled much of the wine trade until the reconquest of Normandy by the French. We normally think of the Normans as warriors. Yet their abilities at international finance and trade was one of their real achievements. Were the Carpenters Norman knights and traders, whose sons left for Flanders in the 1000s to become the large landowners in Nord of the 1200s, and whose sons became the wine importers and commodity exporters of Gascony and England? Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F3659CE3CC9B2351622A6633 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bruce, Attached is the data on the French Carpentier descendancy line in the Du Nord area of France. Pierre is the son of Maurice in the French records. Take care, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > John: > I still haven't seen Nord data, but I think my computer > problems on this end are now O.K. > I found some other important Carpenter findings, all > of which are pointing to a major group of Gascon > Carpenters in Yorkshire. Most of the 'denizen' > Carpenters as of late 1200s seem to have a Yorkshire > and Gascony connection. There is politics > and crown money connected to this. > More later. > Bruce Carpenter --------------F3659CE3CC9B2351622A6633 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="13035.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="13035.txt" Descendants of Pierre Le CARPENTIER-13035 First Generation 1. Pierre Le CARPENTIER-13035 was born about 1300 in de Grand Pont, Du Nord, France. Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30085 FOUNDER: Pierre can be concidered the "Founder" of the French De Carpentier branch of the Carpenter Family. He had the following children: + 2 M i. Anselot Le CARPENTIER-13053 was born about 1335. 3 M ii. Artus Le CARPENTIER-13052 was born about 1337 in near Cambrai, Nord, France. Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30090 4 M iii. Renaud Le CARPENTIER-13038 was born about 1337/1339 in Grand Pont, Cambrai, Nord, France. Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30093 5 M iv. Jacquemart CARPENTIER-13046 was born about 1339 in Grand Pont, Cambrai, Nord, France. Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30094 6 M v. Eustace OR Eustache CARPENTIER-13050 was born about 1340 in Ypres, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 632, Ordinance #: 24192 7 M vi. Guy Le CARPENTIER-13047 was born about 1341 in Grand Pont, Cambrai, Nord, France. Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30095 Second Generation 2. Anselot Le CARPENTIER-13053 was born about 1335 in near Cambrai, Nord, France. Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30089 This French Carpenter line continues, but the probability of error of who is whose child is higher than 51%. Until further information is forthcoming, this part of the record pauses with this family. 4/1995 jrc He had the following children: 8 F i. Marie CARPENTIER-13040 was born about 1360 in of Courriere, Namur, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 515, Ordinance #: 19740 9 M ii. Godefroid Le CARPENTIER-13049 was born about 1365 in Lord of Maire ne, Du Nord, France. BIRTH: PLACE - Lord of Maire near Brillon, Du Nord, France Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30096 + 10 M iii. Jean Le CARPENTIER-13041 was born about 1367. 11 M iv. Ancelot OR Ancel CARPENTIER Le-13055 was born about 1369 in Lord of Maire ne, Du Nord, France. BIRTH: PLACE - Lord of Maire near Brillon, Du Nord, France Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30097 Third Generation 10. Jean Le CARPENTIER-13041 was born about 1367 in Lord of Maire, near Brillon, Du Nord, France. BIRTH: Lord of Maire near Brillon, Du Nord, France Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30098 He had the following children: 12 M i. Pierre Le CARPENTIER-30452 was born about 1395 in Lord of Maire, near Brillon, Du Nord, France. Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30099 + 13 M ii. Jean Le CARPENTIER-30461 was born about 1400/1404. Fourth Generation 13. Jean Le CARPENTIER-30461 was born about 1400/1404 in Mayor of, Dinant, Namur, Belgium and was christened in Lord of Maire, near Brillon, Du Nord, France. !Same person. Film #: 170411, Page #: 789, Ordinance #: 30100 Film #: 170411, Page #: 522, Ordinance #: 20040 He had the following children: + 14 M i. Jean CARPENTIER-30459 was born about 1455. Fifth Generation 14. Jean CARPENTIER-30459 was born about 1455 in Dinant, Namur, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 522, Ordinance #: 20024 He had the following children: + 15 M i. Pieter DE CARPENTIER-30443 was born 1488. Sixth Generation 15. Pieter DE CARPENTIER-30443 was born 1488 in Messenes, W. Flanders, Belgium. !BOOK: GENEALOGY OF THE DE CARPENTIER FAMILY OF HOLLAND BY EDWIN JAQUETT SELLERS. Printed in PHILADELPHIA, PA in 1909. EDITION LIMITED TO ONE HUNDRED COPIES. PRESS OF ALLEN, LAMB & SCOTT PHILADELPHIA. INTRODUCTION Although the family treated of In this work has not been definately traced beyond Pierre de Carpentier of Messen, Flanders yet its origin - appears in " Histore dc Cambray et du Cambresis, par Jean le Carpentier," published at Leyden, 1664, vol. II, page 369: "Since the year 1166 the family is known in the archives of the Abbey of Vauchelles to which much assistance was rendered by Barthelemy and Renaud Carpentier issue of Roger, Sire de Gouy, as we learn from the Tournament of Auchin in the year 1096. Siger Carpentier and Godefroy, descended from the said Renaud, were held in high esteem in Cambray and adjacent parts about 1200. Siger gave, among others, the tithes of Attiche to the Abbey of Cisoing in the year 1265, as can be seen in the archives of that place. He was Seigneur de Vannes and one of the most eminent knights of his time and laid the foundation for a fair posterity, which settled in French Flanders, through his marriage with Berthe Dame en Arquenghem by whom he had a son named Anseau whose descendants maintained themselves with glory and fame as late as the year 1400, when some of them, because of disfavor, were obliged to retreat to France, where, to the present day, they keep up the rank of their ancient nobility and are Seigneurs de Berthier, de Crecy, de Machy, de Ratilly de Marigny, etc. "This House possessed in the Netherlands, where the main branch has been extinct for nearly a century, the Seigneuries de Vannes, d' Avesnes lez Obert, du petit Ribecourt, de Maire, de Hamarree, de Tilloy, de Waignou, d'Aumont, de Flechinet, etc. It gave a bishop to Chartres and an abbot to St. Vaast in Arras; an almoner to Robert, Count de Flanders; governors to Therouane, grand bailiffs to Courtray; counsellors and gallant captains for armies to emperors, kings and princes, and even governors to newly discovered and conquered countires of the United Netherlands, etc. It has distinguished itself through brilliant alliances by marriage with many noble houses. Some of the descendants of the aforesaid Godefroy de Carpentier, Sire de Daniel and d'Avesnes-les-Obert (benefactor of the Abbey of Vaucelles according to a title of the year 1280, and brother of the aforesaid Siger, Sire de Vannes), left for England and Holland, where they bear different arms, although descended from the same house which recognizes as its originators of the ancient and illustrious Seigneurs de Gouy or Goy, who are so renowned in the archieves of the abbies of St. Vaast d'Arras, Mont St. Elloy, Honnecourt, Mont St. Martin, etc., since the year 1036, which is mentioned by Andre Du Chesne in his genealogical works. "Of this house was Jean le Carpentier, Treasurer- General of the Emperor Charles the Fifth, who by Marguerite de Langhe, daughter of Jean, had a daughter named Jeanne le Carpentier, who married Matthieu de Keinooghen, son of Jean Escuyer and Barbe d'Espelghem, who was father of Marie de Keynooghem married to Adrian van der Goes." The rest of the book gives the descendants of this Pieter. Film #: 170411, Page #: 384, Ordinance #: 14764 He had the following children: + 16 M i. Jan. DE CARPENTIER-30458 was born 15 Aug 1511. 17 F ii. Johanna DE CARPENTIER-30463 was born about 1517 in of Messines, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 398, Ordinance #: 15286 Seventh Generation 16. Jan. DE CARPENTIER-30458 was born 15 Aug 1511 in Messenes, W. Flanders, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 384, Ordinance #: 14766 He had the following children: + 18 M i. Pieter DE CARPENTIER-30442 was born about 1536. Eighth Generation 18. Pieter DE CARPENTIER-30442 was born about 1536 in Messenes, W. Flanders, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 384, Ordinance #: 14769 He had the following children: 19 M i. Jean CARPENTIER-30440 was born about 1550 in of Saint Quentin, Aisne, France. Film #: 170411, Page #: 630, Ordinance #: 24092 20 M ii. Pieter DE CARPENTIER-30441 was born Aug 1553 in Messenes, W. Flanders, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 384, Ordinance #: 14774 21 M iii. Philippe DE CARPENTIER-30456 was born about 1560 in Messen, W. Flanders, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 487, Ordinance #: 18740 + 22 M iv. Roeland CARPENTIER-30434 was christened about 1560. Ninth Generation 22. Roeland CARPENTIER-30434 was christened about 1560 in of Delft, Zuid Holland, Netherlands. Roeland married (1-MRIN:10989) Josina VAN HECKE-30433. Josina was christened about 1560 in of Delft, Zuid Holland, Netherlands. They had the following children: + 23 M i. Nicollas CARPENTIER-30387 was christened about 1580. 24 M ii. Johan CARPENTIER-30439 was born 29 Dec 1587 in Delft, S-Hlln, Netherlands. Film #: 537999, Page #: 5, Ordinance #: 90293 + 25 M iii. Pierre DE CARPENTIER-30451 was born about 1588. 26 F iv. Jeanne DE CARPENTIER-30469 was born about 1590 in Wervicq, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 436, Ordinance #: 16747 + 27 M v. Pieter DE CARPENTIER-30432 was born 2 Jun 1591. 28 F vi. Isabella CARPENTIER-30438 was born 15 Oct 1593 in Delft, Zuid Holland, Netherlands. Film #: 537924, Page #: 7, Ordinance #: 89697 Tenth Generation 23. Nicollas CARPENTIER-30387 was christened about 1580 in of Delft, Zuid Holland, Netherlands. Nicolas Carpenthier and Nicollas Carpentier are probably the same person. He had the following children: 29 F i. Izabeau CARPENTHIER-30386 was christened 27 Mar 1602 in Conde-Sur-L'Esca, Nord, France. !BAPTIISM: Conde-Sur-L'Escaut, Nord, France. Batch #: K802551, Source Call #: 1218311 30 M ii. Laurent CARPENTHIER-30385 was christened 10 Aug 1604 in Conde-Sur-L'Esca, Nord, France. !BAPTIISM: Conde-Sur-L'Escaut, Nord, France. Batch #: J802551, Source Call #: 1218311 31 M iii. Nicollas CARPENTHIER-30384 was christened 26 Oct 1606 in Conde-Sur-L'Esca, Nord, France. !BAPTIISM: Conde-Sur-L'Escaut, Nord, France. Batch #: J802551, Source Call #: 1218311 25. Pierre DE CARPENTIER-30451 was born about 1588 in Wervicg, W. Flanders, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 488, Ordinance #: 18746 He had the following children: + 32 M i. Pierre DE CARPENTIER-30450 was christened 3 Jun 1594. + 33 M ii. Jean DE CARPENTIER-30431 was born about 1596. 27. Pieter DE CARPENTIER-30432 was born 2 Jun 1591 in Delft, Zuid Holland, Netherlands and was christened 16 Jul 1591 in Delft, Zuid Holland, Netherlands. Batch #: 7231329, Sheet #: 12, Source Call #: 822070 His children may belong to Johan. He had the following children: 34 F i. Petronelle DE CARPENTIER-30457 was born 1612 in Ypres, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 436, Ordinance #: 16749 + 35 M ii. Jean CARPENTIER-30460 was born about 1614. 36 F iii. Jeanne DE CARPENTIER-30468 was born 1617 in Ypres, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 436, Ordinance #: 16750 Eleventh Generation 32. Pierre DE CARPENTIER-30450 was christened 3 Jun 1594 in Messen, W. Flanders, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 488, Ordinance #: 18744 Pierre married (1-MRIN:10988) Jenne SAINCTE-30430. Jenne was christened about 1594 in of, W. Flanders, Belgium. They had the following children: + 37 M i. Jean CARPENTIER-30429 was born 20 Oct 1626. 33. Jean DE CARPENTIER-30431 was born about 1596 in Messen, W. Flanders, Belgium and was christened about 1596 in Messen, W. Flanders, Belgium. He had the following children: 38 F i. Marie CARPENTIER-30406 was christened 11 May 1620 in Conde-Sur-L'Esca, Nord, France. !BAPTISIM: Conde-Sur-L'Escaut, Nord, France. Batch #: K802551, Source Call #: 1218311 35. Jean CARPENTIER-30460 was born about 1614 in Ypres, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. !NAME: CARPENTIER - "Of this house was Jean le Carpentier, Treasurer- General of the Emperor Charles the Fifth, who by Marguerite de Langhe, daughter of Jean, had a daughter named Jeanne le Carpentier, who married Matthieu de Keinooghen, son of Jean Escuyer and Barbe d'Espelghem, who was father of Marie de Keynooghem married to Adrian van der Goes." Per the book: GENEALOGY OF THE DE CARPENTIER FAMILY OF HOLLAND BY EDWIN JAQUETT SELLERS, Printed in PHILADELPHIA, PA in 1909. MISC: Could this be the Jean Carpentier that wrote; "Histoire de Cambray at de Cambresis" par Jean le Carpentier printed at Leyden in 1664, Vol. 2, pp369-371, and also referenced in; "Archives de Noblesse de France" par M.Laine, Paris 1828. Jean married (1-MRIN:11011) Marguerite DE LANGHE-15422, daughter of Jean DE LANGHE-42619 (MRIN:15158) about 1633 in Belgium. Marguerite was born about 1614 in of, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. They had the following children: + 39 F i. Jeanne Catherine DE CARPENTIER-30467 was born 4 Jan 1634. Twelfth Generation 37. Jean CARPENTIER-30429 was born 20 Oct 1626 in Conde-Sur-L'Esca, Nord, France and was christened 20 Oct 1626 in Conde-Sur-L'Esca, Nord, France. !BAPTIISM: Conde-Sur-L'Escaut, Nord, France. Batch #: J802551, Source Call #: 1218311 He had the following children: + 40 M i. Caroli CARPENTIER-30383 was born about 1649. 39. Jeanne Catherine DE CARPENTIER-30467 was born 4 Jan 1634 in Ypres, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 437, Ordinance #: 16777 Jeanne married (1-MRIN:15159) Matthieu DE KEINOOGHEN-42620, son of Jean Escuyer KEINOOGHEN-42621 and Barbe DE ESPELGHEM-42622 (MRIN:15160). Matthieu was born about 1634 in of, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. They had the following children: 41 F i. Marie DE KEINOOGHEN-42623 was born about 1664 in of, Holland. Marie married (1-MRIN:15161) Adrian VAN DER GOES-42624. Adrian was born about 1664 in of, Holland. Thirteenth Generation 40. Caroli CARPENTIER-30383 was born about 1649 in Conde-Sur-L'Esca, Nord, France. Caroli married (1-MRIN:10981) Joanna BERLON-30382. Joanna was born about 1649 in of, Nord, France. They had the following children: 42 M i. Pierre Francois Brunon CARPENTIER DE-30449 was born 26 Dec 1670 in Ypres, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 488, Ordinance #: 18753 + 43 M ii. Roeland CARPENTIER-30437 was born about 1673/1678. 44 F iii. Maria CARPENTIER-30381 was christened 24 Apr 1675 in Conde-Sur-L'Esca, Nord, France. !BAPTIISM: Conde-Sur-L'Escaut, Nord, France. Batch #: K802552, Source Call #: 1218311 45 M iv. Jan Baptist Joseph CARPENTIER DE-30428 was born 10 Jun 1679 in Ypres, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. Film #: 170411, Page #: 488, Ordinance #: 18754 Fourteenth Generation 43. Roeland CARPENTIER-30437 was born about 1673/1678 in Ypres, West Vlaanderen, Belgium and was christened in of Leiden, Zuid Holland, Netherlands. Roeland married (1-MRIN:10990) Aaltje VAN DER VALK-30436. Aaltje was born about 1675/1680 in of, West Vlaanderen, Belgium. They had the following children: + 46 M i. Hubert CARPENTIER-30405 was born about 1700. + 47 M ii. Jan CARPENTIER
Dear Mr. Chandler, Thank you! I will. I have enjoyed your books and various articles! A fan, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA John F. Chandler wrote: > > John Carpenter wrote: > > Jehan and Jean were brothers. Jean in France is John in England but > > what is Jehan in english equivalent? > > "Jehan" and "Jean" are equivalent. Both are French forms of "John". > It is not unheard of to find two brothers with the same name, but I > would check again on these two. Only if there were really solid > documentation would I accept them as brothers. > > John Chandler
Dear Linda, I am not Professor Carpenter, but a humble Carpenter compiler. There is a story of a Hessian soldier who was captured or deserted the English army and was paroled by the Americans. He was a carpenter by trade and moved west. He became a fur trapper and soon realized he would be better off as a middleman. He set up a place in the Turtle Mountains of present day North Dakota just east of the International Peace Gardens. There he bought and sold for a trading company. He married a indian wife and had several children. After she died he moved back east remarried (but no children) and when two of his sons visited he lost his wife and reputation. He went west with his son and was never heard from again. According to an old researcher, this story was true. I have verified the village of Carpenter (now a ghost town and burned out post office), and historical records showing indians with the Carpentier last name. I visited there many years ago, but could not find any local Carpenters (Carpentiers). James Usher has the story of 3 german Zimmermans renamed Carpenter who went to Wales, England for a generation or two before moving to LI. The story has some truth with historical people (including Carpenters), but has been accepted as a false genealogy. The Carpenter Association of the time period of the mid to late 1800s were interested in a great fortune to be had in England, waiting for the right heirs to claim it. They felt that Revolutionary War Loyalsts (who sided with the English Crown) were unloyal Americans who did not deserve a chance at the loot. Thus they were disowned and called Zimmerman/Carpenters. They did the same to the Southern Carpenters who fought for the Confederate States of America in the War Between the States (Civil War). The reason for the two above stories is because they seem a part of your verbal history. I have two Benjamin Carpenters who may match your data. +---¦Barnard CARPENTER-13221 Benjamin CARPENTER-39429 ¦ ¦21 Dec 1756 4 May 1803 --------------¦ ¦Nine Partners,Dutchess,NY ,,NY ¦ MRIN:14124 no family listed +---¦Phebe AVERY-39423 ¦29 Nov 1770 ¦of,Dutchess,NY *********** This one matches your DOB but was from VA. +---¦Enoch CARPENTER-5459 Benjamin CARPENTER-5473 ¦ ¦Abt 1770/1780 1 May 1803 ------------¦ ¦,,VA Near Lowesville,Amherst,VA ¦ MRIN:1797 --SPOUSE-- MRIN:1869 +---¦Sarah OR Sally EVANS-5467 Elizabeth "Betsey" ETHEREDGE-5725 ¦Abt 1774 25 Aug 1804 ¦Prob Lexington,Parish,Amherst,VA ,,TN --CHILDREN-- 1-Eliza Jane CARPENTER-5726 11-Benjamin Franklin CARPENTER-5736 2Lycurgus A. CARPENTER-5727 3-Enoch CARPENTER-5728 4-Sarah Jane CARPENTER-5729 5-Mary C. CARPENTER-5730 6-Martha Ann CARPENTER-5731 7-Ellender E. CARPENTER-5732 8-Jeremiah CARPENTER-5733 9-Zana Caroline CARPENTER-5734 10-John W. CARPENTER-5735 INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:5473 - -------------------------------------------------------- Name:Benjamin CARPENTER Sex:M ID No:T7K9-6C Birth: 1 May 1803 Place:Near Lowesville,Amherst,VA Chr: Place: Marr: 1823/1824 Spouse:Elizabeth "Betsey" ETHEREDGE-5725 Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death:18 Oct 1881 Place:,Lawrence,AL Burial: Place:Masterson CEM.,,Lawrence,AL Father:Enoch CARPENTER-5459 Mother:Sarah OR Sally EVANS-5467 no notes. *************** If you can supply some more details I can search abit better. Sincerely, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Compiler of the Carpenter 2000 CD Project Carl Harmon wrote: > > Dear Professor Carpenter: > > <P>I am hoping that you may be able to shed some light on my difficulty > in finding further information on my ggg-grandfather Benjamin > Carpenter. > According to family legend he was born in the state of New York > (however, > I have one piece of documentation which says he was born in > England. > No city, etc.), being descended from 3 brothers who came to this country > > at the time of Revolutionary War as Hessian soldiers. I haven't > put > much stock in this story however, since I know nearly every genealogist > has a story similar to this. I do know as fact that some of his children > > were born in the state of New York (Oneida County). > > <P>Since he was born 1 May 1803 (according to his tombstone) I have been > > unable to find any records on him. I have traced my family history > > starting with him and ending with my grand-daughter. Fortunately, > when my family arrived in Wisconsin they only lived in one location > prior > to where the following generations (up to my father) were born and > raised. > > <P>Living in Dane County, Wisconsin and working at the University of > Wisconsin-Madison > I have had access to one of the nations finest historical society > collections. > Most of the information I do have on my family came from this > resource. > I have tried contacting the person who is supposed to have the records > for the cemetery in which he is buried. My phone calls and letters > > have gone unanswered. I have bought many family history CDs only > to find no information on him. I am not a professional > genealogist, > however I have been working on this for approximately 16 years. I > have also taken a beginning and advanced genealogy class, the latter > through > the University of Wisconsin. > > <P>I have been reading with great interest your research on the origins > of the Carpenters and you appear to know your subject very well. > Therefore, I am hoping you will be able to give some advice. > > <P>Sincerely, > > <P>Linda Carpenter Fry > > <P>Researching the following surnames: Carpenter, Hacker, Sorn, Farwell, > > Bardsley, Charlesworth, Cantrell (and all variations), Reynolds and > Harmon > <BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A6BB155A771003DF1FED6DD4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Bruce, You are probably right in that John & Henry may have been the sons of John or Jean le Carpentier-13043 b. Abt 1250 Lord of Daniel et Avesnes les Aubert, Du Nord, France. This would also help explain the Stephen and Henry that were temporarily assigned to Maurice. Thier presence in the London area was always a great question. FAMILY NUMBER:511 - ----------------------------------------------------- Husband:Maurice le CARPENTIER-1407 Br/Ch:Abt 1275/1280 ---------------------------------------------------- CHILD BR/CH ----- ----- 1. Stephen CARPENTER-16313 ** Abt 1300 2. Henry CARPENTER-36558 ** Abt 1300 3. Pierre le CARPENTIER-13035 Abt 1300 4. John OR Jean CARPENTIER le-85 Abt 1303/1305 5. Renaud OR Richard CARPENTIER le-13037 Abt 1307 6. Alix OR Alexandrine CARPENTIER le-13056 Abt 1309 7. Mehant le CARPENTIER-13034 Abt 1313 The impression I have is that Jean le Carpentier (b. abt. 1250) was the wool merchant trading wool for wine. His brother Jehan (or ?) was in the shipping (Jehan was the father of Robert). Jean le Carpentier settled in the London area with his sons (Maurice, John and Henry) while brother Jehan focused on the major ship building areas near Bristol. Peter and Oliver may have been of this line also since they were involved in the wine business. This per your message below. One way the King helped secure loyalty was by the "honour" of Knighthood. It this the new "knight" would swear loyalty to the King. (and give a portion of his increse to the King also!) It is interesting to note that the climate had changed in this time period. England which once had a thriving grape business (in roman and post roman times) was now less suitable for the vine. One of the complaints of the Norman Invaders of 1066 was the lack of suitable local wine and the gloomy days compared to Central France. The attached file has some notes and possible sources (web & other) and research books available on ... Wine in France Wool in England Medieval England I hope some dedicated researcher can make a dent in these and report back to the rest of us. Like you have done in bits and pieces. Piece by piece. A little here and a little there. What are the impressions of other Carpenter researchers? Keep bringing in the data! Sincerely, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > An excellent study of the wine trade has enlightened my in respect to many > of the details on Carpenter history. The book is A History of the Vintners > Company by Anne Crawford, Constable London, 1977. She presents evidence that > argues that merchants like Peter and Oliver Charpenter were major players in > the trade, by right of their royal license. Originally I thought Carpenter > involvement in court finance and politics dated about the time of Henry Vl. > The evidence now points to the 1300s at least, as a starting point. > According to Anne Crawford, merchants who actively supported the crown were > rewarded with knightships. This explains the Staunton St. John knight John > Carpenter who held many manors. In my romantic conception of medieval > England I thought all knights were products of knightly families. A wine > merchant becoming a knight was something I couldnt quite imagine. John > Carpenter, I now seriously suspect, was a Jean le Carpentier > directly related to Eduard le Carpentier, London wine merchant. The > documents explicitly mention that Knight John was the son of a John. Could > John and Eduard have been brothers, both being the sons of the mentioned > John senior? Could this John have been the Jean le Carpenter granted a royal > charter to export wool in 1273? Likewise could this whole line be from the > Peter le Charpenter granted a royal charter to import wine about 1260? In > another letter I will explain the significance of Gascony France and her > merchants in England. Peter le Charpenter was a Gascon, as were most of the > wine merchants of 1300s. > > Sincerely, > Bruce E. Carpenter --------------A6BB155A771003DF1FED6DD4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name="WineWool&Medstuff.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="WineWool&Medstuff.txt" The following data is gleamed from the web. It would take a dedicated researcher months to research all the following. I hope some one will nible here and there for Carpenter Research. John R. Carpenter jrcrin001@home.com INDEX Wine in France Wool in England Medieval England Wine in FRANCE French Wine making areas Number 1, 5 and 9 in in the northern area of France. 1.Alsace 2.Bordeaux 3.Burgundy 4.Beaujolais 5.Chablis 6.Loire 7.Rhône 8.Languedoc - Roussillon 9.Champagne 10.South West Region - Includes what used to be Gascon. Climate variations throughout France make for a wild assortment of wine styles. France produces many of the world's finewines, notably those of the great Bordeaux and the Burgundy regions. Otherwine regions include Alsace, Champagne, the Loire Valley, Provence, Corsica,Languedoc-Roussillon, Jura, Savoire, Bugey, South-Western France, and theRhone Valley. #9 THE HEART OF THE Champagne region lies 90 miles (145km) northeast of Paris near the Belgian border. It is generally divided into three parts the Montagne de Reims, the Vallée de la Marne and the Côte des Blancs. The Aube, 70 miles to the southeast, is important for wines they produce that go into many of the nonvintage blends of the major champagne houses. Of the regions 75,000 acres of vineyards, most and the greatest vineyards of Champagne, are planted in the département of the Marne. The vineyards are not owned by great landowners but by thousands of growers, often working part-time. All of the vineyards are situated on deep chalk soils. Champagne is situated on the same great basin that also forms the famous white cliffs of Dover in southern England. The chalk, a natural moisture regulator, provides good drainage (chalk can absorb up to 40% of its volume in water) and reflects precious sunlight and its heat. The thin layer of arable topsoil constantly needs a top dressing of fertilizer to do its job. Laws dictate which of the three permitted grapes may be planted where. Trial and error over time has shown the wine growers the grape types best suited for each zone of production. In a region where the annual temperature is just slightly above the minimum temperature required to ripen grapes 50°F(10°C) slight variations of slope and aspect are crucial. Most of the best vineyards are planted on slopes at an altitude high enough to be clear of frost (usually above 300ft or 90m), but low enough (below 690ft or 210m) to be sheltered from extreme weather conditions. Lying on a deep bed of crustaceous chalk beneath a thin layer of topsoil, the slopes of the Montagne de Reims and the Côte des Blancs provide the best vineyards. The greatest concentration of villages designated as Grand and Premier Cru are found in these two areas. The Montagne de Reims is planted mainly with Pinot Noir. Although it contains the northernmost vineyards some even north-facing its peculiar microclimate is well suited for the growing of the Pinot Noir grape. The Montagne is a forested plateau south of Reims. Its wines give the great champagnes their backbone their weight and richness. Along both banks of the River Marne, is the Vallée de la Marne. With mostly south-facing, lower-lying vineyards, this zone produces the fullest, ripest wines, predominately from the Pinot Meunier and to a lesser extent the Pinot Noir grapes. Some Chardonnay is beginning to make inroads into the area. Extending south from Epernay for about 13 miles (21km) is the Côte des Blancs. The ridge is planted on both slopes, but the best vineyards are on the eastern side. The chalk subsoil combined with its relative warmth, produces the fine Chardonnay that give freshness to the blend and encourages the sparkle. The Aube is Champagne's most southerly zone. Located about 65 miles (112km) south of Epernay, its climate has more extremes in temperature and the grapes achieve greater ripeness. Though rarely talked about, its wines are an important component of the nonvintage wines of the big houses. A newcomer to Champagne is Côte de Sézanne. Planted in the 1960's almost exclusively with Chardonnay, its southern location means that its grapes ripen better than most of the other zones. continued ... CHAMPAGNE WAS A REGION long before it was a sparkling wine. The region lies at a crossroads of northern Europe the river valleys leading south to the Mediterranean and north to Paris, the English Channel and Western Germany and thus has been the setting of many dramatic events in the history of the French nation. As a convenient access point, it has been for hundreds of years, the chosen path of many invaders including Attila the Hun. The Hundred Years' War and the Thirty Years' War brought repeated destruction to the region as armies marched back and forth across its landscape. By the 17th century, the city of Reims has seen destruction seven times and Epernay no less than twenty-five times. But crossroads also bring trade. Champagne gained importance in its own right, during the middle ages as a center of European trade. The medieval counts of Champagne were wise enough to encourage commerce and strong enough to protect the traveling merchants. They created the then famous, Fairs of Champagne. Though these fairs were mainly about cloth, they were of obvious benefit for the wines of Champagne as it gave them easy exposure and access to important wine markets. Champagne also benefited when the cathedral at Reims was chosen in 987 AD, as the coronation site for the French king Hugh Capet and establishing Reims as the spiritual capital of medieval France. In fact, thirty-seven kings of France were crowned there between 816 and 1825. The monasteries in Champagne with the economic assistance of the crown, were to make wine production a serious venture until the French Revolution in 1789. Before the mid-1600's there was no Champagne as we think of it. For centuries the wines were still wines and were held in high regard by the nobility of Europe. But the cool climate of the region and its effect on the wine making process was to play an important part in changing all of that. ************************************************************************ Wool in England Unfortunately the following sites is down, overloaded or unreachable ... Medieval England 1066-1399 - Bibliographies 25 THE WOOL TRADE. Baker R.L., (1956), The Establishment of the English Wool Staple in l3l3, Speculum, xxi Bowden P.J., (1956), Wool Supply and the Woollen Industry, Ec.H.R., Bowden P.J., (1962), The Wool Trade in Tudor and Stuart England Bridbury A.R., (1982), Medieval Clothmaking Carus-Wilson E. & Coleman O., (1963), England's Export Trade, l275-l547 Carus-Wilson E.M., (1954), Medieval... http://www.history.bangor.ac.uk/h3h03/h3h03b25.htm As is the following site ... Medieval England 1066-1399 - Bibliographies H3H03: BIBLIOGRAPHY SELECT FROM: Use Cut and Paste in conjunction with the Library Catalogue Link to check the availability of books in the Bangor Library ... http://www.history.bangor.ac.uk/H3H03/h3h03men.htm Medieval England 1066-1399 - Bibliographies 26 GENERAL TRADE. Bridbury A.R., (1955), England and the Salt tra
Glenice, Have you corresponded with Nancy Carpenter Kinman? Adam Haywood Carpenter is her ancestor also, and I corresponded with her several months ago about him. If you have that information I won't need to repeat it. Terry Carpenter John Carpenter wrote: > > Dear Glenice, > > I do not have a close match to your Adam Carpenter. > > I am forwarding this message to Terry Lee Carpenter in TX. He is an > expert on the southern Carpenters. > > By the way, I knew a Glenice Musgrove at either Fort Jackson or > Columbia, SC in the mid 1960s. Any relation? > > John R. Carpenter > La Mesa, CA USA > > Glenicegs7@aol.com wrote: > > > > My Carpenter line can be traced back to Adam Haywood Carpenter born 23 Dec > > 1847 in Mississippi. I have been unable to find any additional information > > on him, his parents or siblings. Do you know of any information on Adam or > > do you know where I can get a copy of the newsletters that were published by > > James Ausie Carpenter? > > The birthdate on Adam may be off, although I think what we have is correct. > > Thank you for any hints you can give me. > > Glenice Carpenter Musgrove
Fellow Carpenter researchers: I am working with some outstanding researcher who let me tag along in researching the 1700-1800 Carpenters of NC especially Isaac Carpenter's of Halifax (b. 1764, d. 1837). Our research has led us into the Tidewater area of VA. I know people hate broad questions, but here goes anyway. Does anyone have any wills, deeds, probate, marriage bonds, etc. in Isle of Wight County and/or Surrey County of VA for CARPENTERS in the 1600's to later 1700's? Thanks in advance Louis Carpenter
Does anyone out there have a complete text--or an actual copy--of the will of John Carpenter Jr of Jamaica NY? (This is the John identified as John #24 in Carpenter Memorial, c.1658-1738, 1st married to Abigail Rhodes, and married to Mary ______ at the time of his 1638 will.) I've seen extracts and abstracts of this will, and there seems an anomaly in the apparent "headcount" of sons--which I'd like to resolve, and which may indicate which kids had which mother. But having the actual-real-unredacted text may be key. Can you help? Robin C.
John Carpenter wrote: > Jehan and Jean were brothers. Jean in France is John in England but > what is Jehan in english equivalent? "Jehan" and "Jean" are equivalent. Both are French forms of "John". It is not unheard of to find two brothers with the same name, but I would check again on these two. Only if there were really solid documentation would I accept them as brothers. John Chandler
please remove me from you e-mail listing at this time. Thank you. sc7232@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Dear Penny, My computer crashed last night after a power failure. The back up power supply caught the surge and gave its life for the computer. I do not know if my message to you was sent. Bette Butcher Topp at toppline@cet.com has had articles about touring Carpenter locations in England. The now defunct Carpenter & Related Family Historical Journal had Raymond George Carpenter's article. Unfortunately, I lent my copy out and never got it back. My father toured Southern England briefly a few years ago. I wrote an article for the above C&RFHJ but it was never published. I do not remember if I ever sent a copy to Bette. If Bette can not help you, let me know. Sincerely, John R. Carpenter 5850 Yorkshire Ave. La Mesa, CA 91942-2821 (619) (935 in 6/00) 466-5735 LGroup2220@aol.com wrote: > > Bruce and John - still enjoying your posts. > Now, a new thought. You are holding the > jewels of Carpenter history in your > hands. I am selfishly looking ahead to my > next trip to England. How exciting it would be > to visit all the historical places of which you > speak and that relate to our ancestry. Could > you consider publishing a paper or book that > would direct us to all these interesting places, > explaining each step of the way their significance. > I would purchase such a book. You have given > Fleet street a whole new meaning to me and will > see it with new eyes. I know your plates must be > full - but (yes I'm pushing anyway) we are revisiting > England May of 2001 :) I would even purchase > a rough draft or a preliminary list. Think about it. > please - Penny from Nebraska