While I had no Carpenter at Rehoboth, I find it mentioned a lot because of King Phillip's War. Rehoboth was right in the big middle. King Phillip was an Indian. Audrey Linda Hannah wrote: > Dear Stephanie, Martha and others, > Rehoboth (pronounced Re-HO-baath) is in Mass. just east of East > Providence Rhode Island about 7-8 miles if I stand corrected. It is what is > considered the main birthplace of the Colonial Carpenters who emigrated from > England on the ship Bevis in 1638 and landed in Weymouth. They stayed there > a few years and then moved on west to build the settlement of Rehoboth with > a semicircle of homes facing the river. I quote from "Rehoboth Through the > Years" a history book published by the Anawan Historical Society, Rehoboth > Mass. 1993 > "In the Beginning.... > 1643--Rev. Samuel Newman came with his flock from Weymouth to a > place on the east bank of the Pawtucket River called "Seekonk" by the > Indians. Revv. Newmand surveying the countryside, with gratitude for the > successful journey, said, quoting Genesis 26:22 "...and he called the name > of it Rehoboth; and he said For now the Lord hath made room for us, and we > shall be fruitful in the land." Henceforth, the area was referred to as > Rehoboth. ....One of the first things accomplished upon the settlement of > the people was to gather the church (now Newman Church which is still there > in what is now East Providence with the old cemetery across the street with > all our wonderful ancestors of the time. William #16 stone just reads W.C.). > At a town meeting, nine men were chosen to act in settling prudential > affairs of the town. House lots were alloted in the size of 12, 8, 6 acres > each. Lots were alloted according to the estate of the persons. No one was > allowed to sell his land with first gaining the approval of the nene men > chosen. The meeting house (Newman church) was to stand in the middle of > town." > Hiway 152 running down from Attleborom Mass to East Prov. RI to > hiway 114 runs right into the church on the corner. Then you take Mass. > State Hiway 44 over to Rehoboth, I would call it a village. Just 4 corners. > The old village is down a ways pass the Goff Memorial Lib. where there is a > room upstairs dedicated to Colonial genealogy!!! They are only open to 4 on > SAT. Wonderful countryside and so GREEN for a desert rat like me!! Was there > last year. Hope I got the directions right as I am working from a map here > in NM! Hope that answers the question! > Linda in Albuq. > > At 11:14 AM 9/3/99 EDT, you wrote: > >Thank you, Martha! I, too, feel somewhat lost when the word "Rehoboth" is > >used. My Carpenters involve a series of Josephs from Pawtuxet, RI, who > >migrated to Musketa Cove, LI, NY. The last Joseph was b. 6-28-1720 in > >Musketa Cove, and d. before 2-26-1787 in Musketa Cove, and married Elizabeth > >Townsend. Their son Henry, b. 8-6-1741 in Musketa Cove, d. 1-22-1784, West > >Farms, NY, married Phebe Dickerson/Dickenson. Henry's daughter Sophia, b. > >3-18-1769, married 3-25-1789 Daniel Sutton...there my Carpenters end, and > >become Suttons. > >Stefani Evans > > > >In a message dated 09/03/1999 7:45:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > >mothra@erinet.com writes: > > > ><< I keep hearing terms like Rehoboth and I > > don't know what it means. > > >> > > > > > > > Searching for: Acton, Bailey, Bartle, Carpenter, Hannah, Hertzog, Hillary, > Holland, Mackay, Matheson, Page, Reynolds, Ridenour/Reitenaurer, Shadwick, > Stoner, Wollet.

Oh OH!!! Thats 202 and 203!! that came in as attachments. I'm not sure now if I got that right just now. Marilyn

Hey Leader! #202 and 203 came to my mailbox as attachments --- please could you break these into smaller segments and resend them as 202 a, b, c, and 203 a, b, or whatever. I would really appreciate it -- since you wrote a while back that the Digest is not supposed to come to us as attachments!!! Hoping, Marilyn Newman P> S. (*Prodigy is dead in 27 days) Prodigy Internet is NOT going to be my new address. How do I change that????

At 06:39 PM 9/3/1999 -0400, The Carpenters wrote: >Sorry, cousins. It's all my fault. The dust seemed to be starting to >settle, so I thought I would ask a simple question about an important >physical characteristic that might help me find old John 1797 VT >Carpenter's parents, hoping that I might help lighten things up with a bit >of humor. I got mostly "yes!" answers to my query about big bushy >eyebrows. Rest assured that there were also small, thin, no-eyebrow >CARPENTERs with lovely little noses. No, it's NOT your fault. We all need to get "thicker" skins :) You could have talked about the weather and it would have happened anyway... I personally liked the eyebrow thing and so did many others. Keep up the posting! Chuck Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html Carpenter Genealogy at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

Dear Mary, Your comments about documenting health in genealogy is good. The physical characterics of our ancestors and their problems (mental and physical) will help not only us but our descendants as well. We are all equal (in legal and moral beliefs) and while each of us come from varying backgrounds (physical and mental) it is up to us to "deal with life." We all should all beware of our history and make sure the young know it also. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Mary Carpenter wrote: > > I find the comparisons of physical characteristics simply a fun way to > get to know each other's families. It is certainly not meant to show > someone's family or type is "superior" as suggested by kgj ("Mein > Kampf" comment). But here is something more important that may interest > people. > > My dad (Clarence) had prostrate cancer which wore him down, and he > eventually died of complications of a stroke (the cancer would have > killed him anyway. It was advanced) > > Dad's brother Frank Herman also had prostrate cancer, and died of > complications from brain cancer. > > Frank's son, Mark (my cousin) has suffered from prostrate cancer, but > is doing well. > > Clarence and Frank's father, Frank Isaac suffered from prostrate > cancer. > > Frank Isaac's father, Cass, died of certain complications and I wonder > if they may have been prostrate related as well. > > A cancer researcher talked with me about this family history and she > said our family was very unusual in having this ongoing "legacy" of > prostrate cancer through the generations. Because of this we were > included in her research. > > I am wondering if anyone else has encountered a strange situation as > this. And I am hoping this information will bring people's attention > this disease. If someone in your family history has or had prostrate > cancer, it may be a good idea to have younger generations tested as > well. > > Thanks, > > Mary :) > === > Mary C. Carpenter > Quaternary Studies Program > "Where Death is Just the Beginning!" > NAU Box 5644 > Northern Arizona University > Flagstaff, AZ 86011 > Ph. (520) 523-1718 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

-- Actually William of providence came over 2 yrs earlier in 1636 His Genealogy writer lack the enthuiasm of Amos JohnR in Ca & myself are trying to update that book also. John L. Carpenter Searching for Carpenter family decendants of William Carpenter of Providence, RI check my home pages at the following URL's http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/c/a/r/John-L-Carpenter/index.html http://expage.com/page/carpenterlinks http://homepages.msn.com/PicnicPl/jcarp45 >, > Rehoboth (pronounced Re-HO-baath) is in Mass. just east of East >Providence Rhode Island about 7-8 miles if I stand corrected. It is what is >considered the main birthplace of the Colonial Carpenters who emigrated from >England on the ship Bevis in 1638 and landed in Weymouth.

Dear Mary, To help with the confusion about Samuel being born after the Bevis arrived in 1638, the following data is provided. INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:108 - ---------------------------------------------------- Name:Samuel CARPENTER Sex:M ID No:8MH9-MM Birth:Abt 1638/1639 Place:Weymouth,Norfolk,MA Chr: Place: Marr:25 May 1660 Spouse:Sarah READAWAY-109 Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death:20 Feb 1682/1683 Place:Rehoboth,Bristol,MA Burial:22 Feb 1682/1683 Place:Rehoboth,Bristol,MA Father:William CARPENTER Capt.-584 Mother:Abigail BRIANT-659 Notes ----------------------------------------------- !BOOK- GENEALOGY: PER "GENEALOGICAL & FAMILY HISTORY OF WESTERN NEW YORK" LEWIS 1912, PAGE 1318: SAMUEL, YOUNGEST SON OF WILLIAM, WAS BORN IN REHOBOTH ABOUT 1644, AND DIED THERE 20 FEB 1683. !BIRTH: This was the second Samuel born in the family. He was probably born in late 1638 or very early in 1639 (probably the former). He was of age when listed in his father's will (proved April 1659) and could not have been born in 1644. !NOTE: SEE ALSO "NEW ENGLAND MARRIAGES PRIOR TO 1700" PAGE 136 AND "BROOKS" PAGE 102: CARPENTER, SAMUEL ( -1683) & SARAH REDAWAY, M/2 GILBERT BROOKS 1687/8; 25 MAY 1660; REHOBOTH. Rehoboth vital records regarding marriages 1652-1896 on page 78 lists 25 May 1660 as the marriage date in Rehoboth, Bristol, MA. !SAMUEL WAS ONE OF THE PURCHASERS OF THE NORTH DIVISION OF THE NEW REHOBOTH TOWN AND RECEIVED LAND IN THE DIVISION OF 5 FEB 1671. IN 1680 CHOSEN MEMBER TO LAY OUT LAND. HE MARRIED SARAH READAWAY AND HAD 9 SONS AND 1 DAUGHTER. SARAH MARRIED GILBERT BROOKS AFTER SAMUEL DIED IN 1683. !BOOK- GENEALOGY: Amos B. Carpenter, A GENEALOGICAL HISTORY OF THE REHOBOTH BRANCH OF THE CARPENTER FAMILY IN AMERICA. Also known as the CARPENTER MEMORIAL. Published 1898 By: Press of Carpenter & Morehouse, Amherst, MA. SAMUEL is listed as # 23 on page 48. There is very extensive notes in that record. !Samuel, the son of William and Abigail Carpenter lived in Rehoboth, Bristol, MA all his life. It was recorded that he advanced money to carry on "Phillips War". This may refer to the Wamponpag Indian leader which led the indians in the worst New England indian war, starting in 1675, when three Wampanoag indian warriors were executed for the murder of a Christian Indian, an informer of an alleged Indian conspiracy against the whites. Phillip, an indian named Pometacom or Metacomet, the son of Massosoit, became the sachem of the Wamponoag Indiams in 1662 and followed a peaceful policy for nine years, even though the indians land was expropiated and they were pushed into a smaller and smaller area. When the 3 indians were tried and executed he declared war. By 1676 however the whites gained strength and destroyed the indians crops, captured their women and children, including Phillip's wife and son. Finally, thru bounties, an indian traitor shot Philip near Bristol, RI on Aug. 12, 1676. end notes. As you probably noted above, this was the second Samuel born in the family. Keziah Carpenter had the following pedigree ... Keziah CARPENTER-6186 B: 25 Jun 1722 Attleboro,Bristol,MA M: 14 Feb 1741 --1500 D: 23 Jan 1752 Pomfert,Windham,CT 1st 2nd 3rd + +W CARPENTER 5th-¦con.2 ¦ + +E CARPENTER-----¦ ¦ ¦ + ¦ +E ROBINSON------¦con.1 ¦ + Keziah CARPENTER Samuel CARPENTER ¦ ¦ +Mehitable BISHOP¦ con. 1 4th _ +George ROBINSON-¦_ -¦ _ +Joanna INGRAHAM-¦_ _ con. 2 William CARPENTER 4th-103 C: 22 Nov 1631 Shalbourne,Wiltshire,England M: 5 Oct 1651 --190 Rehoboth,Bristol,MA D: 26 Jan 1702/1703 Rehoboth,Bristol,MA 4th 5th 6th +W CARPENTER oW--¦con.3 ¦ +W CARPENTER C---¦ ¦Cpt. William ¦ ¦of Rehoboth +Alice-----------¦ ¦ W CARPENTER 4th P BENNETT ¦ +John BRIANT-----¦ ¦ ¦ +Abigail BRIANT--¦ ¦ +Alice-----------¦ con. 3 duplicate 6th generation William CARPENTER of Wherwell-98 B: 1576 Horwell,Hampshire,England M: Aug 1604 --10012 ,Wiltshire,England D: 1638 at sea or near,Weymouth,Norfolk,MA 6th 7th 8th 9th +Robert CARPENTER +W CARPENTER oM--¦ ¦ +Elizabeth------- +Robert CARPENTER¦ ¦ ¦ +John CARPENTER-- ¦ +E CARPENTER-----¦ ¦ +Abigail--------- W CARPENTER oW Alice ¦ +W CARPENTER 2nd- ¦ +Robert CARPENTER¦ ¦ ¦ +Maud------------ +E CARPENTER-----¦ ¦ +---------------- +Isabella STORKE-¦ +---------------- All the Carpenter lines above tie into William Carpenter of Homme born about 1440. I hope this helps clear up the confusion. Sorry there is no new data on Amasa Carpenter. Sincerely, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Mary Carpenter wrote: > > -**Samuel Sr. (b. abt. 1635** in Rehoboth) who married Sarah READAWAY > (REDAWAY, REDWAY, REDEWAY). > > -William (of Rehoboth?) (b. 5-23-1605 Wiltshire, England) > ** If Sam Sr.'s father was Wm. of Rehoboth, and Wm. didn't arrive in > America until the Bevis came in 1638, then how could Sam Sr. be born in > Rehoboth 3 years before??? > > If my info is correct (and I am reading it correctly), Sam Sr. had a > brother William (b. 1632 in Southampton, England) who was direct > ancestor of earlier mentioned KEZIAH CARPENTER. > > Any leads on that elusive Amasa from anybody???? Maybe he isn't even > Alonzo's father. Any suggestions are appreciated. > > Thanks > > Mary > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

I am a Carpentr descended from William of Rehoboth. My Carpenter men, at least the ones I know the professions of, worked with their hands, but they were also educated. As an example, my grandfather and great-grandfather were, I guess you could say, carpenters by trade and name. They owned their own construction company and built octagonal-shaped barns in western Dane County, Wisconsin. My great-great-grandfather was a stone mason. My great-great-great grandfather was a farmer, but had a brother who was a merchant. I am proud to say my Carpenters were and are noted for their brains and brawn. By the way, the Carpenter women came in all shapes and sizes! So much for judging someone on those credentials! A Carpenter from Wisconsin via Rhode Island, Massachusetts and New York C.A.Carpenter ( Chuck's Wood-Knots) wrote: > > At 09:04 PM 9/1/1999 -0700, Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > >Dearest Carpenters: > >As I mentioned previously, the vast, vast majority > >of present English Carpenters are dscendants of timber tossing carpenters of > >trade. > >They surely must be well built. However the Rehoboth > >and Providence Carpenters are descendants of landowners > >and merchants. These were people who used their brains and > >not their brawn. My Carpenters are all tall, thin boned with > >fine chisled facial features. They (including myself) were never in > >love with physical work, even on the farm. In the Carpenter Memorial, > >on p. 376, is a picture of Philo Carpenter. He seems to me to be > >the classic Carpenter. Take a look at the two on p. 163. > >A classic Carpenter is Frank Carpenter, whose fine photo can > >be found at www.geocities.com/fbc.htm. A much more interesting > >question would have been, "Were the Carpenter ladies well built"? > > > >For the record, the reason I don't accept a DeMelun > >origin for the Herefordshire Carpenters is not > >that I dislike the DeMeluns, but rather the evidence that > >supports the connection is a sham. It is the nature > >of my profession to assign an "F" for lousy homework and > >an "A" for well done homework. Simple as that. > > > >Sincerely, > >Bruce Carpenter > > > > The URL posted above does not work for me but the one below does. > > http://www.geocities.com/~newgeneration/fbc.htm > > From a personal observation. > > I am descended from the Rehoboth clan. I grew up in Barrington, RI which > was once part of Rehoboth. > > I am more closely related to Bruce Carpenter than any other Carpenter on > the list. We follow the same path from William down to Stephen Carpenter > and Martha Hunt. > > The observation is: > I am small boned and 5'8" tall but have the 29.5 inseam as Tony mentions.. > maybe it's 30". > ALL the Carpenters I have ever met were small boned with the exception of > my son who is large boned, 6' and 265 lbs. The biggest Carpenter I know :) > Frank Carpenter( The Painter ) bears a strong resemblance to my family and > a lot of other Carpenters I have known. > All of them were very intelligent and worked hard, but not "heavy" laborers. > They were all "artistic" in some way and yes a little eccentric :) > > And they all loved women, "well built" or not :) > > Chuck > > Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: > http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html > > Carpenter Genealogy at: > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

Dear Stephanie, Martha and others, Rehoboth (pronounced Re-HO-baath) is in Mass. just east of East Providence Rhode Island about 7-8 miles if I stand corrected. It is what is considered the main birthplace of the Colonial Carpenters who emigrated from England on the ship Bevis in 1638 and landed in Weymouth. They stayed there a few years and then moved on west to build the settlement of Rehoboth with a semicircle of homes facing the river. I quote from "Rehoboth Through the Years" a history book published by the Anawan Historical Society, Rehoboth Mass. 1993 "In the Beginning.... 1643--Rev. Samuel Newman came with his flock from Weymouth to a place on the east bank of the Pawtucket River called "Seekonk" by the Indians. Revv. Newmand surveying the countryside, with gratitude for the successful journey, said, quoting Genesis 26:22 "...and he called the name of it Rehoboth; and he said For now the Lord hath made room for us, and we shall be fruitful in the land." Henceforth, the area was referred to as Rehoboth. ....One of the first things accomplished upon the settlement of the people was to gather the church (now Newman Church which is still there in what is now East Providence with the old cemetery across the street with all our wonderful ancestors of the time. William #16 stone just reads W.C.). At a town meeting, nine men were chosen to act in settling prudential affairs of the town. House lots were alloted in the size of 12, 8, 6 acres each. Lots were alloted according to the estate of the persons. No one was allowed to sell his land with first gaining the approval of the nene men chosen. The meeting house (Newman church) was to stand in the middle of town." Hiway 152 running down from Attleborom Mass to East Prov. RI to hiway 114 runs right into the church on the corner. Then you take Mass. State Hiway 44 over to Rehoboth, I would call it a village. Just 4 corners. The old village is down a ways pass the Goff Memorial Lib. where there is a room upstairs dedicated to Colonial genealogy!!! They are only open to 4 on SAT. Wonderful countryside and so GREEN for a desert rat like me!! Was there last year. Hope I got the directions right as I am working from a map here in NM! Hope that answers the question! Linda in Albuq. At 11:14 AM 9/3/99 EDT, you wrote: >Thank you, Martha! I, too, feel somewhat lost when the word "Rehoboth" is >used. My Carpenters involve a series of Josephs from Pawtuxet, RI, who >migrated to Musketa Cove, LI, NY. The last Joseph was b. 6-28-1720 in >Musketa Cove, and d. before 2-26-1787 in Musketa Cove, and married Elizabeth >Townsend. Their son Henry, b. 8-6-1741 in Musketa Cove, d. 1-22-1784, West >Farms, NY, married Phebe Dickerson/Dickenson. Henry's daughter Sophia, b. >3-18-1769, married 3-25-1789 Daniel Sutton...there my Carpenters end, and >become Suttons. >Stefani Evans > >In a message dated 09/03/1999 7:45:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >mothra@erinet.com writes: > ><< I keep hearing terms like Rehoboth and I > don't know what it means. > >> > > > Searching for: Acton, Bailey, Bartle, Carpenter, Hannah, Hertzog, Hillary, Holland, Mackay, Matheson, Page, Reynolds, Ridenour/Reitenaurer, Shadwick, Stoner, Wollet.

Sorry, cousins. It's all my fault. The dust seemed to be starting to settle, so I thought I would ask a simple question about an important physical characteristic that might help me find old John 1797 VT Carpenter's parents, hoping that I might help lighten things up with a bit of humor. I got mostly "yes!" answers to my query about big bushy eyebrows. Rest assured that there were also small, thin, no-eyebrow CARPENTERs with lovely little noses. Now I'm going to add that info to all my other info about VT-->NY Carpenters, and see if I can draw a straight line to the past from all of this. The implication that we can solve the nature vs. nurture question by example from our own simple views of our ancestors was not mine. I am simply looking for the bread crumbs that Hansel and Gretel Carpenter may have dropped along the way. Has anyone seen John and Mary CARPENTER of De Ruyter, NY? How are their parents doing these days? Genealogy, yes. Genetics, no. George R.

Folks, The genealogy of my line will be very easy. My kids play soccer, so therefore every single descendent of theirs will play soccer too. Just go to a soccer pitch (field) to look up my descendents. My daughter broke her arm, so therefore every single female descendent of hers will have evidence of a break in the left arm. Just go and dig through medical records for all female descendents of hers. My son has a scar on his forehead, so therefore every male you see with a scar on his forehead will be a descendent of his. I am a printer, so whenever all descendents of mine are not playing soccer and are not getting a scar on their forehead and are not breaking their left arm, then they will be working in a print shop. Come to think about it, since Gutenberg was a printer and I am a printer, I must be decended from Gutenberg. And genealogy was supposed to be not easy!!! Rick

George - Thank you for sharing your family with me. My children and I are all college graduates as well. My son in English, one daughter in music and one in broadcasting. I am a law school graduate and currently have my own law practice. I specialize in family violence (so perhaps I am a bit sensitive). My dad graduated from UC Berkeley in chemistry and my mom San Jose State in French and history. My dad went back to school and studied structural engineering and joined his father in the construction business. Many buildings on the campus of MSU and around the area were built by my grandpa. Great grandparents were farmers and builders. Mother's father was a cabinet maker. Mother's mother was a cook and maid. She worked for Earl Warren when he was governor of Calif. after coming to this country. She was the most influential person in my life. My older brother is an exceptionally skilled craftsman who builds custom log staircases, log furniture, does custom wood interior as well as other custom made furniture. He has been featured in many magazines. All of my five siblings have been to college, one is still going and the rest have graduated. My other and younger brother received his degree in mathematics but has been known to lift a hammer on occasion. We are all outdoors people who love to camp, fish, canoe, hike, etc. My skilled craftsman brother spent many years working with youths and taking them on rock climbing, white water rafting, etc., trips all over the country. As far as I know none of my ancesters that predate my father went to college. They were farmers, most were builders, and some were preachers. The male carpenter line also served in the military - Civil War, World War I, WWII, Viet Nam. I have a great and loving family. We are all Christians and value our relationship with God above all. Even the women have lifted a hammer on occasion. I myself have done roofing, drywalling, plastering, and various other carpenter things. Thanks again for sharing. Kris

At 10:50 AM 9/3/1999 -0700, Mary Carpenter wrote: >I find the comparisons of physical characteristics simply a fun way to >get to know each other's families. It is certainly not meant to show >someone's family or type is "superior" as suggested by kgj ("Mein >Kampf" comment). But here is something more important that may interest >people. http://habitant.org/genetics.htm Genetic Disorders, Databases, and Genealogy Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html Carpenter Genealogy at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

Please, let's not digress back to the defensive mode we were in last month. If someone makes a comment or supplies "fact" or "opinion" we don't agree with, it can be addressed to the list serve as a plain statement of disagreement, without adding to the name-calling. I know it is hard when you feel strongly about something, I often want to just shout over this list "What, are you CRAZY??!!". But I think we all suffered by the breakdown in communication in the past. I do not always agree with Bruce's way of wording things. I like to think his last message was trying to be more careful, and maybe even show some humor. I commented myself that as a woman I take no offense (didn't see that message posted though). Even tho' I may not agree with his tone, I realize that professors who are actively into research tend to take a stand, and defend their work, sometimes to the point of being beligerant. That isn't to say it is "right" or wrong, but being in an academic atmosphere myself I understand having to defend your beliefs or research to an unbelieving public and other researchers, and trying to "prove" your "facts". Just remember: Everyone's perception of reality is different. I guess this may cause more hard feelings. I hope not. I am one of those Carpenter "lovers", and I really hate people arguing. Let's just keep in mind that it is hard to discern someone's intended tone of voice on an e-mail. The best we can do is stick in a smiling face now and then to show humor or sarcasm :). Even if Bruce, or anyone else, is being insultive or aggravating (whether intentionally or not), it does not help the situation to say equally aggressive, berating remarks on the list serve where it can incite others into similar tirades. I think it is best to direct such comments to the author directly. Maybe it will even help change their own comments to the List. I would certainly hate to see someone boycott the List Serve completely because they feel anything they say will be criticized or worse. Everyone provides some important piece of information! We can comment without being mean. I may not agree with Bruce's comments, but he is supplying invaluable information that most of us would never have available to us in our lives. That doesn't excuse his bad behavior, but I try to glean the important stuff from the rest. John in CA as well provides much info and help to people as well, if he has views or "facts" I don't agree with, I use what is usable to me. Thanks for your time. I think we can all get back to serious genealogy AND some fun exchanges as well. Mary :)) === Mary C. Carpenter Quaternary Studies Program "Where Death is Just the Beginning!" NAU Box 5644 Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, AZ 86011 Ph. (520) 523-1718 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

At 12:45 PM 9/3/1999 -0400, Nkobblk@aol.com wrote: >Thank heaven for the digest mode. I can use the delete key to erase messages >from "Bruce the braggart" And thank heaven I also have a "delete subscriber key" which I will be using if anymore "personal attack" type messages are posted. If you want to chastise someone then by all means do so, PRIVATELY. "Civil" public disagreement of course is welcome, we all learn by intelligent debate. Thank you, Chuck..... Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html Carpenter Genealogy at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

Thanks John for the helpful information. Kris

The German word for carpenter (the worker) is Zimmermann. Zimmer means "room," as in Wohnzimmer (livingroom), and mann is man or person. Thus, the change was a simple German-English translation, rather than an arbitrary change. There used to be (and still is) tremendous pressure on immigrants (and the rest of us, too, of course) to conform to the mainline culture--in this case the use of English names. Why remain a "greenhorn" forever, when a simple translation of the name and learning to say We instead of Vee can make life more pleasant and prosperous? (Of course, I'm only saying this from the immigrant's point of view.) George C.

Mary, My brother, David CARPENTER, is a builder. He has a "regular" job with serious responsibility in a pharmaceutical company, but gets his joy in life building houses. He, too, really enjoys being "Carpenter the carpenter." George ---- > My father, > Clarence Frank ("Carpy") Carpenter was a self-taught carpenter. He > always took great pride in having a profession the same as his name. > Even if we did not originally descend from such tradesmen, I am very > proud to have a name that also has been a profession in my family (at > least once). It makes for a great conversation piece as well. :) > > I wonder how many others out there have carpenters by trade in their > line? > > Mary

My Carpenters were farmers and did many other things as well, but in the 1800s several of them built many large timber bridges in NY and MI, at least. Throwing around those huge timbers required great strength, for which they had the reputation. My grandfather's generation included barbers and merchants. My father's generation included many college graduates, including my father, who earned a Ph.D. in mathematical statistics and was an important person in the development of research statistics. My generation of Carpenters includes virtually no members without a college degree, and most of us hold more than one. Almost all of us earn our livings as professionals in many different areas. My children's generation is the same. We are mostly pretty big people who would no doubt be farming and building bridges and doing other hard physical work, had we not been fortunate enough to have been born in the USA during such a time as ours has been. I suspect that, had I been raised during the Crusades to hate the "Saracens" and other "infidels" to the point at which killing them made me feel I was doing God's will, I probably would have been a big, strong killer, and proud of it. Maybe not, but what would have prevented it? The goal of most historians is to find out the story of what actually happened in the past. There is a genetic component to our behavior, of course. However, let's not forget the effect of the environment on our ancestors. What I really want to know is who my ancestors were, and what they were like, including what they did. I hope they weren't all wonderful. George R. Carpenter

> > The test for prostate cancer is a simple blood test, > called a PSA. Any > male over 50 should get this test done on a regular > basis, whether you are > an Iron Carpenter or a Gentle Carpenter. > > George Carpenter > > -- > If someone in your family history has or had > prostrate > > cancer, it may be a good idea to have younger > generations tested as > > well. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mary :) > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com