Just for the information of those interested, there is a Zimmerman list. <ZIMMERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com. Wylene Alston

Before I took a vacation I mentioned that I'd consider scanning the copies I had on the above publications for members of the list. I'm now having second thoughts. There's probably a legal area here but when it comes to genealogy we all copy everything we can get our hands on. The second item is the publication that is coming out by the same author. I sent a message to this list on Genealogy Ship to Shore a week or so ago. Purchasing that would be a much better way to go for everyone. And the price is very reasonable. I'm open to comments on the subject. Oh, and one other item. I can't send attachments to the list. Carolyn Carpenter

In a message dated 9/12/99 9:14:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rchristo@intrepid.net writes: << I would even take it another step and suggest another list for the Carpenter's that come from the Zimmerman line >> How does a new researcher know they come from the Zimmerman line till they get back that far. Would that mean they would have to belong to both lists? No need to reply this is just food for thought. Isn't there a Zimmerman list?

-----I think You need to find a outlet for your rage controll and keep it off the list if you please . Sooner or later people on high horses fall >Three cheers for C.A.Carpenter. Let >us get the documents on the web. Find >them and scan them or copy them. >What about that old Harry Rodgers/Raymond >Carpenter stuff. Put it on the net. Get with >it Carpenters, think, react, discuss. Give 1880 Aunt >Nellie in Nebraska a >rest. >BC > >

Hello Carpenters! I am the person that subscribed while that foul mouthed man was on and right away I unsubscribed. I recieved many emails privately asking me to give this list a try. I am doing this for the nice people that emailed me. I will give your list a try My Carpenters are from WV. I have Carpenters in myPhillips line. I have a J.W. Carpenter that married Catharine Phillips, they were married on 9-4-1874. J. W. Carpenter was born in 1853. I dont know anymore on J.W. Carpenter . I hope to connect with Carpenters that are related to my Phillips family also. Catharine is the d/o my gggrandfather Daniel Monroe Phillips. Would like any info on J.W. Carpenter and children he had with Catharine. I also have a Luverna Carpenter that married Marion Phillips in 1871. I have many ties to the Carpenter name but these are the ones I am concentrating on now. If anyone sees a connection I would be glad to hear from you. Thank you for your time, Joan

Three cheers for C.A.Carpenter. Let us get the documents on the web. Find them and scan them or copy them. What about that old Harry Rodgers/Raymond Carpenter stuff. Put it on the net. Get with it Carpenters, think, react, discuss. Give 1880 Aunt Nellie in Nebraska a rest. BC

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------286778DB646CEECACCCFB91F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------286778DB646CEECACCCFB91F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail4.bellsouth.net (mail4.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.4]) by mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (3.3.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09993 for <kdavis44@atl.bellsouth.net>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by mail4.bellsouth.net (3.3.4alt/0.75.2) with ESMTP id XAA21876 for <kdavis44@bellsouth.net>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust197.tnt3.fort-collins.co.da.uu.net [63.14.32.197]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12150 for <kdavis44@bellsouth.net>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DC6CDF.92004B1B@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:17:51 -0600 From: jrfranklin <jrfranklin@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kathleen Davis <kdavis44@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: re. Shallbourne References: <003201befd22$c308c5c0$6a6ee7ce@jcarp45.top.monadnet> <37DBF0B2.E310DF7A@earthlink.net> <37DAE856.111BA7DE@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathleen: I think you probably wanted to post to the Carpenter list and the message came to me. Send it to CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com Audrey Kathleen Davis wrote: > Hi, I'm new to this site. I'm sorry that there seems to be some type of > discension going on here. My grandmother was Georgia Carpenter of Camp Nelson > Kentucky born 1902. Her Father was Robert Carpenter and her mother was Myra > Kemper. Rober Capenter's father was Marion Carpenter and his wife was Maggie. I > don't know her maiden name. I am trying to find out more information about the > Carpeneters in Kentucky and their lineage. If anyone out there has any > information please let me know. Thanks. > > jrfranklin wrote: > > > I again say : Keep your remarks directly to the person involved and not to > > this list. You, and other like you, are trying to keep this going. There > > is no "rage" in this message from Bruce. Audrey Annable Franklin > > > > " John L. Carpenter" wrote: > > > > > -----I think You need to find a outlet for your rage controll and keep it > > > off the list if you please . Sooner or later people on high horses fall > > > > > > >Three cheers for C.A.Carpenter. Let > > > >us get the documents on the web. Find > > > >them and scan them or copy them. > > > >What about that old Harry Rodgers/Raymond > > > >Carpenter stuff. Put it on the net. Get with > > > >it Carpenters, think, react, discuss. Give 1880 Aunt > > > >Nellie in Nebraska a > > > >rest. > > > >BC > > > > > > > > --------------286778DB646CEECACCCFB91F--

Who says anyone "likes" it but it appears to me that there is considerable "ganging up on going on" here. The interesting thing is that for at least two days neither gentlemen involved has said a word except for genealogy. That means there are people on here that like to keep a ruckus going for whatever reason. Take an aspirin and go to bed. Audrey Annable Franklin The Carpenters wrote: > Chuck, > > How many have left the list? How many have written to you about this > nastiness? Add them up, and give us a number. Then request that, if we > object to what has been going on, we notify you right away. Add those to > the other list, and give us a final tally. From what I have read on the > list and what I have received in private e-mail, "most" is probably a > pretty accurate descriptor. How low does list membership have to get > before it is considered pretty serious? Put me down as one of the people > who don't like it. > > George > --- > George R. Carpenter > carpgl@ismi.net > > ---------- > > From: C.A.Carpenter ( Chuck's Wood-Knots) <chuck2@evcom.net> > > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: No more crazy stuff for me! > > Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 10:11 PM > > > > At 09:54 PM 9/11/1999 -0400, Mike Smith wrote: > > >Hi everyone, > > > > > >After quite a bit of thought, I have decided to have my e-mail server > remove > > >the e-mail messages of those deemed offensive by me (and most others I > > >guess) - I will miss the occasional good information found therein, but > I > > >really can't take the rage that at least one member of this group finds > it > > >impossible to contain. > > > > > >I use Microsoft Outlook Express, if anyone wants to know how to keep > > >unwanted e-mail from known sources getting to their in-box, please drop > me a > > >line. > > > > > > > I have also received mail from people who use Webtv to access the net. > They > > tell me they cannot filter their mail. I guess they will just have to use > > > the delete key. > > I don't want to sound "harsh" but it's not like having to run around the > > block 5 or 6 times, it takes a single keystroke. > > And to just answer your post Mike about "most others", out of 350 > > subscribers, about 10 or 15 have complained. > > > > Happy Hunting! > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: > > http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html > > > > Carpenter Genealogy at: > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html > >

Chuck, How many have left the list? How many have written to you about this nastiness? Add them up, and give us a number. Then request that, if we object to what has been going on, we notify you right away. Add those to the other list, and give us a final tally. From what I have read on the list and what I have received in private e-mail, "most" is probably a pretty accurate descriptor. How low does list membership have to get before it is considered pretty serious? Put me down as one of the people who don't like it. George --- George R. Carpenter carpgl@ismi.net ---------- > From: C.A.Carpenter ( Chuck's Wood-Knots) <chuck2@evcom.net> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: No more crazy stuff for me! > Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 10:11 PM > > At 09:54 PM 9/11/1999 -0400, Mike Smith wrote: > >Hi everyone, > > > >After quite a bit of thought, I have decided to have my e-mail server remove > >the e-mail messages of those deemed offensive by me (and most others I > >guess) - I will miss the occasional good information found therein, but I > >really can't take the rage that at least one member of this group finds it > >impossible to contain. > > > >I use Microsoft Outlook Express, if anyone wants to know how to keep > >unwanted e-mail from known sources getting to their in-box, please drop me a > >line. > > > > I have also received mail from people who use Webtv to access the net. They > tell me they cannot filter their mail. I guess they will just have to use > the delete key. > I don't want to sound "harsh" but it's not like having to run around the > block 5 or 6 times, it takes a single keystroke. > And to just answer your post Mike about "most others", out of 350 > subscribers, about 10 or 15 have complained. > > Happy Hunting! > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: > http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html > > Carpenter Genealogy at: > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html >

Do I remember someone in the past few days inquiring about Heiman Carpenter. I remembered that name and today he showed up in the Bradford Cty PA 1880 census for Smithfield Twp. Heiman is 49 and a Farmer b. PA Parents b. RI and VT wife: Harriet 47 years b. PA Parents born CT and RI William E. 21 b. Pa Parents born PA Frank E. 12 b. PA Parents born PA Also, separately, was listed a Phebe Carpenter age 51 a widow and housekeeper B. VT Father born Ireland and mother in CT. Hope this helps someone. Your loss, Mr. Smith. Indignation is quite different than rage. Audrey Annable Franklin

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/shallbourne.htm I have posted the Shallbourne article at the above address. Chuck Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html Carpenter Genealogy at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

At 09:54 PM 9/11/1999 -0400, Mike Smith wrote: >Hi everyone, > >After quite a bit of thought, I have decided to have my e-mail server remove >the e-mail messages of those deemed offensive by me (and most others I >guess) - I will miss the occasional good information found therein, but I >really can't take the rage that at least one member of this group finds it >impossible to contain. > >I use Microsoft Outlook Express, if anyone wants to know how to keep >unwanted e-mail from known sources getting to their in-box, please drop me a >line. > I have also received mail from people who use Webtv to access the net. They tell me they cannot filter their mail. I guess they will just have to use the delete key. I don't want to sound "harsh" but it's not like having to run around the block 5 or 6 times, it takes a single keystroke. And to just answer your post Mike about "most others", out of 350 subscribers, about 10 or 15 have complained. Happy Hunting! Chuck Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html Carpenter Genealogy at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

Hi everyone, After quite a bit of thought, I have decided to have my e-mail server remove the e-mail messages of those deemed offensive by me (and most others I guess) - I will miss the occasional good information found therein, but I really can't take the rage that at least one member of this group finds it impossible to contain. I use Microsoft Outlook Express, if anyone wants to know how to keep unwanted e-mail from known sources getting to their in-box, please drop me a line. Peace & Regards to all, Mike Smith Smitty's Genealogy: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2822

At 02:24 PM 9/11/1999 -0700, Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: >Was William DeMelun the same as Hitler? This is an interesting question, the >answer to which would be, yes very similar indeed. I don't know anything about DeMelun, perhaps because I haven't bothered to look it up. Being single I have to do my own housework and it takes time :) However being as honest as I can, if I were to find that my ancestry involved Hitler I would rather know that it did and except it than not know at all. Now as stated before I can't make a comment on the accuracy of anyones research because I just don't have the credentials to do so. Realizing that, let me ask what might be a dumb question....but this is how we learn. Could, the Carpenter ancestry you have been researching tie in with DeMelun at an earlier date? In other words could DeMelun have been the ancestor of the Carpenter merchants you talk about. I mean even if Hitler had children they might have totally different beliefs than he did, as I suppose it is with all families. Chuck Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html Carpenter Genealogy at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

Was William DeMelun the same as Hitler? This is an interesting question, the answer to which would be, yes very similar indeed. The German prince and knights that led the First Crusade (DeMelun was a Frankish member) were in many ways the first Nazis. Indeed Hitler’s Jew exterminator assistant Himmler, studied the exploits of these early knights very carefully for justification and inspiration of his own SS organization, seeing his proprietors of concentration camps as the later incarnations of the early anti-Semitic knights. DeMelun and his German friends would take a goose, and when the creature pointed its head in a certain direction, they would ride off that way and murder every man, woman and child Jew they came across. DeMelun’s “carpenter” axe could not compare to the gas chambers of the 1940s. However it served the same purpose. The diarys of the surviving victims have come down to. So great was their terror and outrage that through the centuries this material was copied and recopied for posterity. Once again, was DeMelun the same as Hitler? I would have to say he was closer to Himmler. Bruce Carpenter

A mountain of material is beginning to accumulate on my desk on the very beginnings of the Carpenter family in England and in France. This is most of the material from the 1200s. Before that there is really nothing. Of special interest are the state papers of Aquitaine and Gascony, of which exist a great many surviving documents related to an Elias Carpenter of Bordeux, a major wine merchant, local dignitary, companion of the elite, and with close ties to England. This is of interest because as you recall both Bishop John Carpenter of Worcester and Town Clerk John Carpenter had extremely close connections to St. Antony’s Hospital, the clergy of which were from Vienne, France in the same area. A St. Antony’s Hospital existed also in Vienne. It always seemed to me to be a Carpenter family charity with a probable history, and while other similar local French matters have continued to accumulate, my suspicions of connections have grown with them. My intuition now tells me that Herefordshire Adam Carpenter and Bordeux Elias Carpenter are two very visible members of a common Carpenter family and business group. I would like to read, translate and present this material quickly, but language difficulties will retard my progress. My own linguistic training was in Chinese and Japanese. My son, who won a national Latin prize, took a look at this documentation and just handed it back. If there is anyone with Latin skills and wishes to assist, don’t be shy. Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter

I happened onto this in the Tri-County list for Bradford/Tioga/Chemung counties: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pabradfo/biograph/garner.htm Maybe it will interest someone on the list. Audrey Annable Franklin

Ok, here's my situation. Three of four years ago John Carpenter of CA contacted me about my Carpenter line that he had seen published in a journal published by James Aussie Carpenter. I by the way made mistakes in that genealogy and contacted James at a later date to straighten it out. I met James Aussie through my correspondence with Raymond George Carpenter, Genealogist for the American Carpenter Family. Raymond was a great guy but you had to decipher his handwriting. He didn't have a computer and wrote long hand :) At any rate, I sent my feeble gedcom to John in CA and he in turn sent me his work which at that time consisted of a database of about 18,000 individuals. A while after this I became aware of an article in "American Genealogist" October, 1995 by Gene Burzinsky who gave new information about Carpenter ancestry which I then sent to John. Not long after meeting John in CA I started writing to John L. Carpenter in NH. John was extremely helpful to me in understanding the Providence, RI line and sent me many journals and publications. What I'm trying to say is you couldn't meet more helpful gentlemen if you tried, I like them both very much and I respect them, I like to call them friends and I do not use that term loosely. I met Professor Bruce Carpenter ( through e-mail) several months ago. We talked in length privately about our Carpenter ancestry. He was also quite helpful to me and quite "civil", a likable guy for sure. Now I know some of you are going to call me on this but it's true, the Bruce I know is quite friendly and "normal". I can understand his anger,I mean if someone kept posting PUBLICLY that our family was descended from Hitler for an example( and I'm not saying De Melun was like Hitler, I have no idea who he was other than what's been posted) and my records and research were totally opposite then I would be upset. Would I call the other researcher an idiot? I might, but not PUBLICLY! I would publish my "Proof" and settle the debate in this manner. After all is said and done this is the only way to get at the "truth". Calling people names publicly solves nothing except perhaps the loss of subscribers, which by the way cost this list at least 20 just this past week. Please lets not lose any more of our family. As I said before I'm not qualified to offer an answer on who's theories are correct Tony's or John's or Bruce's or none of the above I have not done the PERSONAL research to offer an opinion. I AM overjoyed that people are working on it! Do I think it makes a difference if your from the Rehoboth line or Providence line or Zimmerman? Not at all.... the list is for ALL Carpenter and Zimmerman lines. So, you see the problem here for me, I consider all three gentlemen "friends" of mine and I respect them all. Am I interested in medieval Carpenter genealogy? You bet I am. I have had my "American" ancestors for quite some time now and would like more info on the early line. I have by the way applied for a separate Medieval Carpenter genealogy list, don't know if I will get it. The other thing is this.... If this bickering bothers you why in the world, as has been suggested don't you configure your e-mail program to not receive mail posted by anyone who offends you? This is simple to do... I can't imagine myself getting a computer and going on the Internet not knowing the first thing about how the computer or my programs work! I agree that this is not something you should have to resort to but it is an option and this is the real world. Doing this would immediately solve your problem, end of story. Please, lets get along.. Chuck Who's family came down from the trees when John L.'s did :) Hey, maybe they even lived together! PS: I have asked John L. Carpenter in NH who I feel most closest to and who I also know would do a great job to take over this list, so far I haven't had much luck........ Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html Carpenter Genealogy at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

In a message dated 9/10/99 3:01:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Kjgcarp writes: << Carolyn - Who put this book together and is it about any and all Carpenters or just some branches of Carpenters if you know? Thanks. Kris >> To the best of my knowledge is it by Rosemary E Bachelor. She published The Carpenter Family News-Journal for several years. From the Journal she went to The Epistle. That publication had her four families: Batchelor, Carpenter, Rice and Richmond. They were both monthly publications that had her research as well as research from other. It is my understanding that the books she is going (or has) publishedare from these publications. So it wouldn't be ALL Carpenters but it should include a great deal of information. I've not seen the books so I can't be specific. Carolyn

Apology to our American Cousins, it appears that I might have misled you, you will see the comment received, and all I was doing was trying to be helpful! Regards - Peace and love to you all, Tony [and Gill] This was what I received: Tony: When you list the professions of servants be careful not capitalize carpenter. You make your reader think the servants were members of the Carpenter family. Bruce Carpenter -----Original Message----- From: Tony Carpenter <tony.c.@skynow.net> To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com <CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 7:09 AM Subject: The Bevis Attach ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Carpenter <tony.c.@skynow.net> To: Bruce E. Carpenter <carp@whidbey.com> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 6:12 PM Subject: Nit-picking > Dear Professor Bruce, > Sorry you feel we were inaccurate in capitalising the profession on our list > of people on the Bevis, we will take your literal slap on the wrist for what > it is worth. Might I point out that LAVENHAM [ not Levenham as indicated in > your last missive] in Suffolk is not a City, that presupposes the presence > of a Cathedral. It is a small country town, with no major river. Its > nearest port is the Town of Ipswich. Incidentally Ipswich is currently > applying to become a City to celebrate the Millenium. > Tony >