Dear John, I am very glad you cleared this up on locations. I was going to go to the FHC to check the detail map of the local. "Perpetual vicar" can also mean a lay person in charge of a vacant church or one that only has a visiting Priest. In the late 1400s there was a shortage of Roman Catholic Priests in England. Roman Catholic Priests, Bishops and evena Vicar General was common in this line. See William of Homme notes below and that of two of his sons. INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:91 - ---------------------------------------------- Name:William CARPENTER William of Homme Sex:M ID No:8LC0-35 Birth:Abt 1440 Place:Homme,Hertfordshire,England Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:(CARPENTER)-700 Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death:Abt 1520 Place:of,Dilwyne,Herefordshire,England Burial:Abt 1520 Place:of,Dilwyne,Herefordshire,England Father:John the younger CARPENTER-90 Mother:(CARPENTER)-702 Notes ----------------------------------------------- partial notes ... !WILLIAM OF HOMME RESIDED IN PART OF DILWYNE, HEREFORDSHIRE, ENGLAND PER 1898 BOOK. SEE ALSO GENEALOGICAL & FAMILY HISTORY OF WESTERN NEW YORK BY LEWIS 1912. PAGE 1252 AND 1317. PAGE 1317 GIVES BIRTH ABOUT 1480 INSTEAD OF 1440. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE REAL "WILLIAM OF HOMME" WAS THE SON OF THIS WILLIAM? !AKA: William of Hereford. !This William of Homme is the common ancestor of our Carpenter Family in America. Coat of Arms is a common way of tracing lineage. The arms granted to Lord George Carpenter in 1719, as published in the account of his life (The Life and Times of Lord George . . .) were Pally of six, argent and gules on a chevron, azure,three cross crosslets, or. CREST, on a wreath a globe in a frame all or. Supporters, two horses, party-perfess, embattled argent and gules. MOTTO: "Per Actua Belli" (Through the Asperities of War). John the Elder, Bishop, granduncle to this William, had the same Coat of Arms. The same arms, less the supporters and motto, were used by the Herefordshire Carpenter family and were emblazoned in a glass window of the college and church at Westbury upon Trin as early as 1443. They were placed there by permanently by Bishop John (the Elder) Carpenter of Worcester, who was a native of Westbury and a great benefactor of the college, having rebuilt and refounded it. Bishop John Carpenter died in 1476 and was buried in the church, where a plain altar monument was errected to his memory. This church (in 1890) is the Holy Trinity of Bristol, and is described in Willi's Survey of Cathedrals, published in 1742. And in Atykn's and Rudder's History of Gloucester where there is a very interesting sketch of Bishop John Carpenter who was also known as "Master John Carpenter" mentioned in the will of the town clerk of London, John Carpenter, the younger. end One of the sons of William of Homme was Richard Carpenter b. 1464/1470. He was a Catholic Priest. His brother named John (John of London) may have been a Priest also. See below. INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:2781 - ---------------------------------------------------- Name:Richard CARPENTER Rev. Sex:M ID No:4JG9-HH Birth: 1465/1470 Place:Homme,Hertfordshire,England Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:Unknown Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death: 1503 Place:,Wiltshire,England Burial: Place: Father:William CARPENTER WoH-91 Mother:(CARPENTER)-700 Notes: !Raymond Carpenter, the genealogist, states that this Richard Carpenter was Vicar General of Ramsbury to the Bishop of Salisbury. He was a CATHOLIC PRIEST, he died in 1503. See notes below. Coat-of-Arms below. Per Oxford University Records he came from Hereford and had brothers James, John, and William. !The Reverend Richard Carpenter followed in the footsteps of his granduncle John Carpenter the Elder, Bishop of Worcester and served in the same Church at Westbury. Richard Carpenter was Canon of Westbury upon Trin (Tryn) in Gloucestershire and Vicar of Mixbury in Oxfordshire and possibly in Trottescliffe in Kent. He was Vicar of Ramsbury in Wiltshire. He was also of Colford parish in Gloucester. !WILL: The will of Rev. Richard Carpenter mentions sons Robert & Peter. !SEE: Also: (WN & Q) Wiltshire Notes and Queries, Pages 256-258 and 293 which lists The Wilshire Wills proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (1383-1558): "1503 Carpenter, Rychard, D.C.L. and priest, Remmesbury (= Ramsbury, Wilts) (Wilts?) Mixbury, Oxford. (Oxfordshire) 25 Blamyr." There are two other CARPENTER notes in the above record. They read: "1524 Carpenter, als. Morecock, Roger, Hornyngesham, Wilts. F. 31 Bodfelde." "1547 Carpenter, sir Thomas, priste, Cathedral of Sarum. F. 10 Allen." The 1547 year note probably refers to this Richard's grandson. The "F." notes represent the books or records the references were found in. The 1524 year note may refer to a son not listed in his will. The descendants of Roger claim a coat of arms identical from Rev. Richard Carpenter. !Because Richard Carpenter was a Catholic Priest, his coat of arms of three cross crosslets, derived from John Carpenter the Younger of London would pass down to his descendants with a vertical green bend sinister. Even though priests were required to be celibates, it was not unusal in those times for church officials of all ranks to have families named in their wills, though of course no wife was named. !His Coat-of-Arms were probably granted when he was at Coleford, Newland parish, Gloucester County. See page 356 in the book, Carpenter Family in America, by Daniel H. Carpenter, 1901. (or this was is son or grandson?) !Some speculation was that his wife's name was Susan Trevelian. end notes. INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:2639 - ---------------------------------------------- Name:John of London CARPENTER Sex:M ID No:4JG9-F5 Birth:Abt 1462 Place:Homme,Hertfordshire,England Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:Unknown Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death:Bef 1540 Place: Burial: Place: Father:William CARPENTER WoH-91 Mother:(CARPENTER)-700 Notes ------------------------------------------------- !Listed in the London Visitation in 1634. His greatgrandson, John married Anne Davison, sister of William Davison who was Secretary of State to Queen Elizabeth the First. Was he a Priest like his brother? DILWIN CHURCH HISTORY: Valued at 20 marks_. Pursuant to this arrangement the Bishop in 1285 directed his officials to make enquiry if church was void and from what time. Who true patron who presented last vacancy and whether the present Richard de Monyton was praiseworthy and of good conversion and nature of Con and held any other benefice.--- The answers were satisfactory, but Richard de M. resigned in a few days. 1298 Peter Pons deacon. In 1303 on a dispute as to the Vicar's salary, Wm. De Kingscote, Canon, and Wm. De Caple, Official of the Hereford Commissioners --- Priory lay Brother John of Clehonger, the Vicar in person. Witnesses deposed on oath that all the fruits oblations obventions and revenues did not average more than 70 marks [46.11.8] The Convent had rebuilt the Chancel and would renew it when necessary and find sufficient books for matutinals and would sell and provide for the Bishop at his visitation. The Vicar to provide a Chapel for chadensore of the Lords day. Vicars of Dilwin Church:- 1349 Wm. Nicholas 1395.Thomas Barwe 1402 John Skele 1407.William Taylor 1409.Walter Robins vac. On pension of 40s. To have a chamber on ground floor of Vicarage [bafram caveram] with a fireplace. 1428.Richard Probert 1460.William Strongford 1466 Thomas Golosse [Walter Smethcote 1468 John Bridde [Walter Brigge 1478 William Hope Bridde vac 1479 Thomas Longe Johanna Bruge 1480 John Coxton Richd. Bromwich 1481.July. R. Iaqueson on his own part and that of R. Judde his Co-Commissioners writes to Bishop Mylling:- "Sir Richard Delabere has presented to us Thomas Leynthall for the Chantry of St. Mary now vacant on the ground of the right passed by Philip Luntley of Leomnstr. To whom Janyn Luntley granted the advowson towards the end of his life. An enquiry is to take place on Church of Dilwyn by ----- and -- --- of repute residing near the Church. CHANTRY of St. MARY Value of 4.5.9. in N.Trancept. Further information on the church comes from "The Manor Houses of Herefordshire" The Church is, says Silas Taylor, "very fayre for a country village" and has been recently restored with considerable skill and judgement. On the North side of the church beneath a canopy ornamented with ball flowers, lies a cross-legged Knight in armour. The shield, worn on the left arm, is charged with a lion rampant within a bordure engrailed. Mr. Blore refers to the monument to the reign of Edward II, and it is generally supposed to represent one of the Talbots, who were connected both with Dilwin and the neighbouring Priory of Wormsley. Silas Taylor [Harl.Mss.6868] says "I am induced to believe it was one of ye Tirells of Tirell's court in this parish from the arms." The curious coffin-lid bearing the arms of Delabere has been already noticed and is more particularly described in the preface to "Dingley's History from Marble, Vol.II, p.103. DILWIN CHURCH Estate is frequently alluded to in deeds as "The College" end notes. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA John F. Chandler wrote: > > Bruce wrote: > > The Pembryg co.is Pembridge co. in > > our parlance. > > I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear that there is no Pembridge > Co. in Great Britain. The phrase used in the text was > > Staunton beside Pembryg, co. Hereford, > > which would be Staunton (near Pembridge), Herefordshire. As it happens, > there is another Staunton only a few miles away, so it is necessary to > make the distinction. > > > Was William a priest? 1480 is well before the Reformation.What > > does 'vicar' imply? > > Yes. The term "vicar" connotes a stand-in (for the "real" ecclesiastical > authority), but the job is, in practice, almost always permanent, as it > was for William. Thus, the vicar is the pastor of his parish. > > > Notice the "feoffment" applies to both Willy > > and Johnny. This means we are dealing with Carpenter family > > assets and not church assets. > > That goes without saying. A mere vicar would not be the land holder of > record for the Church's property. > > > in the document is that the property in question > > was cloth manufacture related. > > That is a rather wild extrapolation from very limited data. > > > "Feoffment by John Dey of Nuneton and Agnes his wife, > > Notice that both John and his wife joined in the deed. Because of the > wife's rights of dower, a married man could not alienate property > without her consent. > > > William Carpenter, perpetual vicar of the parish church of Staunton beside > > Pembryg, co. Hereford, John Carpenter, brother of the said William, Thomas > > Shepey of Nuneton, and Nicholas Dalton, otherwise called > > Tayler, of Kynges, co. Warwick > > The relationship among the four feoffees is not made clear here. > Although William evidently lived in Staunton, and Nicholas Dalton/Taylor > lived in Kings, the property was in the borough of Nuneton. > > > of a burgage and a half-burgage in Nuneton > > Note that the term "burgage" does not imply any particular size of > property, but rather the form of tenure -- the property was within a > borough. > > > which they had by the gift of Richard George, Maud his wife, > > and John Freman of Coventre, > > Note, again, the inclusion of Richard's wife in the previous transfer. > As long as we are making wild speculations, it would be appropriate here > to wonder if Richard was the father of John Dey's wife Agnes. > > > who had the same by the feoffment of John Thorp > > late of Coventre, 'weaver' > > Note that the only mention of weaving is as the occupation of a three- > times removed previous holder of the property! > > > to them and the heirs and assigns of the said > > William and John Carpenter. > > I wonder why the other two feoffees' heirs and assigns are not mentioned > here... > > John Chandler

John Chandler: Is Staunton the home (in some sense) the the "Staunton" design for chess sets? If so, do you know what's the connection? Robin

Bruce wrote: > The Pembryg co.is Pembridge co. in > our parlance. I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear that there is no Pembridge Co. in Great Britain. The phrase used in the text was Staunton beside Pembryg, co. Hereford, which would be Staunton (near Pembridge), Herefordshire. As it happens, there is another Staunton only a few miles away, so it is necessary to make the distinction. > Was William a priest? 1480 is well before the Reformation.What > does 'vicar' imply? Yes. The term "vicar" connotes a stand-in (for the "real" ecclesiastical authority), but the job is, in practice, almost always permanent, as it was for William. Thus, the vicar is the pastor of his parish. > Notice the "feoffment" applies to both Willy > and Johnny. This means we are dealing with Carpenter family > assets and not church assets. That goes without saying. A mere vicar would not be the land holder of record for the Church's property. > in the document is that the property in question > was cloth manufacture related. That is a rather wild extrapolation from very limited data. > "Feoffment by John Dey of Nuneton and Agnes his wife, Notice that both John and his wife joined in the deed. Because of the wife's rights of dower, a married man could not alienate property without her consent. > William Carpenter, perpetual vicar of the parish church of Staunton beside > Pembryg, co. Hereford, John Carpenter, brother of the said William, Thomas > Shepey of Nuneton, and Nicholas Dalton, otherwise called > Tayler, of Kynges, co. Warwick The relationship among the four feoffees is not made clear here. Although William evidently lived in Staunton, and Nicholas Dalton/Taylor lived in Kings, the property was in the borough of Nuneton. > of a burgage and a half-burgage in Nuneton Note that the term "burgage" does not imply any particular size of property, but rather the form of tenure -- the property was within a borough. > which they had by the gift of Richard George, Maud his wife, > and John Freman of Coventre, Note, again, the inclusion of Richard's wife in the previous transfer. As long as we are making wild speculations, it would be appropriate here to wonder if Richard was the father of John Dey's wife Agnes. > who had the same by the feoffment of John Thorp > late of Coventre, 'weaver' Note that the only mention of weaving is as the occupation of a three- times removed previous holder of the property! > to them and the heirs and assigns of the said > William and John Carpenter. I wonder why the other two feoffees' heirs and assigns are not mentioned here... John Chandler

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A05A016F232DFCD48787338C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Betty, I may have sent this information to your friend, but if I have not it is attached. The birth locations for his spouses vary but may give a clue to his birth area. Best of Luck! John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA fbchan wrote: > > I am trying to help a friend find any information on: > > CARPENTIER, Noel dit LA ROSE > Born; - 1647 > Place;-_________ France > Marriage to Jeanne TOUSSAINT > Place;- Cap de la Madeleine, Champlain, Quebec, Canada > Died;- Jan 26, 1728 > Place, Champlain, Quebec, Canada. > Need to find his birthplace in France in order to proceed. > > Thanks for any information you are able to share with us, > Bfn, > Betty Chan > > ============================== > Caught an error in the Social Security Death Index? > Use RootsWeb's POST-EMS to post a note about it! > http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ --------------A05A016F232DFCD48787338C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="52.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="52.txt" Ahnentafel Chart for Francois CARPENTIER-52 First Generation 1. Francois CARPENTIER-52 was born 21 Sep 1716 in Champlain, Quebec. Francois married (MRIN:17) Marguerite BILLY-62 on 3 Aug 1739 in Champlain, Quebec. Marguerite was born 1722. Second Generation 2. Etienne CARPENTIER-23 was born 1678 in France and was christened 1678 in Cap de Madeleine, Champlain Co., Quebec, Canada. He married Marie Madelienne ROUILLARD-24 on 10 Jan 1713/1714 in Champlain, Quebec (MRIN:8). !Film #: 445830, Page #: , Ordinance #: 68215 Born in France but probably baptised in Canada. 3. Marie Madelienne ROUILLARD-24 was christened 8 Jul 1694 in Batiscan, Quebec. Third Generation 4. Noel CARPENTIER-25 was born 1639 in France. He died 25 Jan 1727/1728 and was buried 26 Jan 1727/1728 in Champlain, Quebec, Canada. Noel married Marie Jeanne TOUSSAINT-26 on 1672 in Cap de Madeleine, Champlain, Quebec (MRIN:9). Film #: 451097, Page #: 925, Ordinance #: 64256 5. Marie Jeanne TOUSSAINT-26 was born 1650 in France. She died 16 Dec 1708 and was buried 17 Dec 1708 in Champlain, Quebec, Canada. !Film #: 451097, Page #: 1008, Ordinance #: 64068 Father is probably Dominique. Fourth Generation 10. Dominique TOUSSAINT-81 was christened 31 Mar 1630 in Gerbeviller, Meurthe-et-mosel, France. !CHR: Gerbeviller, Meurthe-et-moselle, France. This is in the Lorraine region of France near Germany and Luxebnbourg. Batch #: C801891, Source Call #: 1134420 Fifth Generation 20. Demange TOUSSAINT-80 was born about 1610 in France. He married Catherine-79 (MRIN:24). 21. Catherine-79 was born about 1610 in France. Index Name ID Generation , Catherine 21 5 CARPENTIER, Etienne 2 2 CARPENTIER, Francois 1 1 CARPENTIER, Noel 4 3 ROUILLARD, Marie Madelienne 3 2 TOUSSAINT, Demange 20 5 TOUSSAINT, Dominique 10 4 TOUSSAINT, Marie Jeanne 5 3 --------------A05A016F232DFCD48787338C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="25d.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="25d.txt" Descendants of Noel CARPENTIER-25 First Generation 1. Noel CARPENTIER-25 was born 1639 in France. He died 25 Jan 1727/1728 and was buried 26 Jan 1727/1728 in Champlain, Quebec, Canada. Film #: 451097, Page #: 925, Ordinance #: 64256 Noel married (1-MRIN:16) Marie BOUTET-50, daughter of Martin BOUTET-85 and Catherine SOULANGE-88 (MRIN:28). Marie was born 1644 in Saintes, Charente-maritim, France. She died after 1721. !BIRTH: Saintes, Charente-maritime, France. Saintes is near the Bay of Biscay upriver from Rochefort on the Charente river. Bordeaux is some 70 miles to the south. Batch #: 8434604, Sheet #: 10, Source Call #: 1395914 Noel also married (2-MRIN:9) Marie Jeanne TOUSSAINT-26, daughter of Dominique TOUSSAINT-81 (MRIN:25) on 1672 in Cap de Madeleine, Champlain, Quebec. Marie was born 1650 in France. She died 16 Dec 1708. !Film #: 451097, Page #: 1008, Ordinance #: 64068 Father is probably Dominique. Noel and Marie had the following children: 2 F i. Madeleine CARPENTIER-76 was born 1673 in France. !Film #: 451097, Page #: 1009, Ordinance #: 64083 Probably died as an infant. 3 F ii. Jeanne CARPENTIER-3 was born 1676 in France and was christened about 1678 in Quebec. was buried 2 Jun 1747 in Montreal, Quebec. !Film #: 451097, Page #: 1009, Ordinance #: 64084. Born in France. + 4 M iii. Etienne CARPENTIER-23 was born 1678. 5 M iv. Medard CARPENTIER-2 was born 6 Aug 1681 in Champlain, Champlain Co., Quebec, Canada. Medard married (1-MRIN:13) Jeanne PROVENCHER-47. 6 F v. Antoinette CARPENTIER-1 was born 26 Jan 1686/1687 in Champlain, Champlain Co., Quebec, Canada. She died 10 Dec 1771 in I'Ile Dupas, Berthier Co., Quebec, Canada. 7 F vi. Anne Celeste CARPENTIER-45 was born 18 Jun 1691 in Champlain, Champlain, Quebec, Canada. Anne married (1-MRIN:14) Rene DERAINVILLE-48 on 25 Jun 1715 in Champlain, Quebec. 8 M vii. Noel CARPENTIER-46 was born 20 Jan 1696/1697 in Champlain, Champlain, Quebec, Canada. Noel married (1-MRIN:15) Marie DENIAU-49 on 12 Jan 1720/1721 in Longueuil, Quebec. Marie was born 1698. She died after 1775. Second Generation 4. Etienne CARPENTIER-23 was born 1678 in France and was christened 1678 in Cap de Madeleine, Champlain Co., Quebec, Canada. !Film #: 445830, Page #: , Ordinance #: 68215 Born in France but probably baptised in Canada. Etienne married (1-MRIN:8) Marie Madelienne ROUILLARD-24 on 10 Jan 1713/1714 in Champlain, Quebec. Marie was christened 8 Jul 1694 in Batiscan, Quebec. They had the following children: 9 F i. Marie Madeleine CARPENTIER-51 was born 23 Dec 1714 in Champlain, Quebec. + 10 M ii. Francois CARPENTIER-52 was born 21 Sep 1716. 11 F iii. Marie Joseph CARPENTIER-53 was born 27 Mar 1718 in Champlain, Quebec. + 12 M iv. Joseph Marie CARPENTIER-54 was born 1 Mar 1719/1720. 13 F v. Marie Anne CARPENTIER-55 was born 10 May 1722 in Champlain, Quebec. 14 F vi. Marie Genevieve CARPENTIER-56 was born 23 Jul 1724 in Champlain, Quebec. + 15 M vii. Charles Marie CARPENTIER-21 was born 2 Jul 1726 and died 20 Feb 1801. 16 M viii. Jean Baptiste CARPENTIER-57 was born 5 Aug 1728 in Champlain, Quebec. Jean married (1-MRIN:20) Apolline COTTENOIRE-70 on 15 Feb 1768 in Isle Dupas, Berthier Co., Quebec. 17 F ix. Marie Jeanne CARPENTIER-58 was born 20 May 1731 in Champlain, Quebec. 18 M x. Alexis CARPENTIER-59 was born 26 May 1733 in Champlain, Quebec. 19 M xi. Etienne CARPENTIER-60 was born 14 Apr 1736 in Champlain, Quebec. 20 F xii. Marie Marguerite CARPENTIER-61 was born 1 Jul 1738 in Champlain, Quebec. Third Generation 10. Francois CARPENTIER-52 was born 21 Sep 1716 in Champlain, Quebec. Francois married (1-MRIN:17) Marguerite BILLY-62 on 3 Aug 1739 in Champlain, Quebec. Marguerite was born 1722. They had the following children: 21 M i. Michel CARPENTIER-63 was born 16 Jun 1740 in Champlain, Quebec. 12. Joseph Marie CARPENTIER-54 was born 1 Mar 1719/1720 in Champlain, Quebec. Joseph married (1-MRIN:18) Genevieve HOURE-64 on 2 Feb 1750/1751 in I'Ile Dupas, Berthier Co., Quebec. Genevieve was born 1721. They had the following children: 22 M i. Joseph CARPENTIER-65 was born 4 Mar 1751/1752 in Isle Dupas, Berthier Co., Quebec. 23 M ii. Alexis CARPENTIER-66 was born 1 Mar 1755 in Isle Dupas, Berthier Co., Quebec. 24 F iii. Genevieve CARPENTIER-67 was born 27 Feb 1756 in Isle Dupas, Berthier Co., Quebec. Genevieve married (1-MRIN:19) Jean Baptiste PIPEREAU-69 on 26 Jun 1775 in Isle Dupas, Berthier Co., Quebec. 25 F iv. Marie Joseph CARPENTIER-68 was born 11 Jul 1760 in Isle Dupas, Berthier Co., Quebec. 15. Charles Marie CARPENTIER-21 was born 2 Jul 1726 in Champlain, Quebec. He died 20 Feb 1801 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was buried 21 Feb 1801 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. Charles married (1-MRIN:7) Jacqueline Luce DUBORD-22 on 26 Aug 1759 in Champlain, Quebec. Jacqueline was born Dec 1728. She died 6 Oct 1801 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. They had the following children: 26 M i. Daniel CARPENTIER-35 was born about 1763 in Quebec. Daniel married (1-MRIN:12) Francoise BOISVERT-36. + 27 M ii. Basile CARPENTIER-33 was born about 1765. + 28 M iii. Joseph CARPENTIER-8 was born about 1769 and died 2 Oct 1843. Fourth Generation 27. Basile CARPENTIER-33 was born about 1765 in Quebec. Line 1291 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: MARR SOUR @S34064@ Basile married (1-MRIN:11) Charlotte BEAUFORT-34 on 16 May 1791 in Ste. Genevieve, Berthier, Quebec. They had the following children: 29 M i. Joseph CARPENTIER-42 was born 3 Dec 1794 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier, Quebec and was christened 3 Dec 1794 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. Line 833 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BIRT SOUR @S20827@ Line 1214 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: MARR SOUR @S34064@ Joseph married (1-MRIN:4) Pelagie CHEVALIER-4 on 23 Aug 1825 in Ste. Genevieve, Berthier, Quebec. 30 F ii. Genevieve CARPENTIER-44 was born 20 Apr 1796 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 20 Apr 1796 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. 31 F iii. Charlotte CARPENTIER-39 was born 21 Aug 1797 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 21 Aug 1797 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. She died 18 Nov 1799 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was buried 20 Nov 1799 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. 32 M iv. Alexis CARPENTIER-38 was born 15 Apr 1799 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 15 Apr 1799 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. 33 F v. Judith CARPENTIER-40 was born 2 May 1802 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 10 May 1802 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. She died May 1858 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was buried 30 May 1858 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. 34 F vi. Marie Marguerite CARPENTIER-43 was born 2 Nov 1802 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 3 Nov 1802 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. 35 M vii. Francois Xavier CARPENTIER-41 was born 23 Jan 1810 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 23 Jan 1810 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. He died 17 Aug 1810 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was buried 20 Aug 1810 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. 36 F viii. Marie Helena CARPENTIER-37 was born 3 Mar 1811 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 11 Mar 1811 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. 28. Joseph CARPENTIER-8 was born about 1769. He died 2 Oct 1843 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was buried 3 Oct 1843 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. Joseph married (1-MRIN:3) Francoise MAURICE-9 on 12 Jan 1795 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier, Quebec. Francoise was born about 1776. They had the following children: 37 M i. Joseph CARPENTIER-27 was born 8 Apr 1796 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 9 Apr 1796 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. He died 20 Nov 1796 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was buried 21 Nov 1796 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. + 38 F ii. Charlotte CARPENTIER-6 was born 5 Jan 1798 and died 16 Nov 1836. 39 F iii. Marie Genevieve CARPENTIER-30 was born 15 Jun 1802 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 16 Jun 1802 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. + 40 M iv. Basile CARPENTIER-31 was born about 1804. 41 M v. Pierre CARPENTIER-28 was born 21 Nov 1812 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 29 Nov 1812 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. Pierre married (1-MRIN:21) Adaline LECUYER-71. Adaline was born 1828 in Grandine, Quebec. 42 F vi. Marie Rose CARPENTIER-29 was born 11 Sep 1818 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 11 Sep 1818 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. Fifth Generation 38. Charlotte CARPENTIER-6 was born 5 Jan 1798 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was christened 5 Jan 1798 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. She died 16 Nov 1836 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec and was buried 18 Nov 1836 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. Line 100 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BIRT SOUR @S20827@ Line 104 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: DEAT SOUR @S21092@ Line 108 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: CHR SOUR @S20827@ Line 112 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BURI SOUR @S21092@ Charlotte married (1-MRIN:1) Joseph DESTRAMPES-5 on 17 Nov 1817 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier, Quebec. Joseph was born 14 Feb 1795 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. He died 8 Aug 1871 in St. Cuthbert, Berthier Co., Quebec. Line 73 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BIRT SOUR @S20827@ Line 77 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: DEAT SOUR @S21097@ Line 81 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: CHR SOUR @S20827@ Line 82 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: CHR SOUR DATA Line 83 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: CHR SOUR DATA TEXT 14 February 1795, the undersigned priest baptized JOSEPH, born today, son of Joseph DESTREMPES and Elisabeth BRUNEAU, his wife. Godfather Seigneur Jean Baptiste DESTRAMPES, surgeon. Godmother Marie Louise BRUNEAU, wife of Antoine DESTRAMPES. Line 84 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: CHR SOUR DATA TEXT 14 February 1795, the undersigned priest baptized JOSEPH, born today, son of Joseph DESTREMPES and Elisabeth BRUNEAU, his wife. Godfather Seigneur Jean Baptiste DESTRAMPES, surgeon. Godmother Marie Louise BRUNEAU, wife of Antoine DESTRAMPES. CONT Signed by his godparents his father and the priest. Line 88 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BURI SOUR @S21097@ Line 89 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BURI SOUR DATA Line 90 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BURI SOUR DATA TEXT 10 August 1871, the undersigned priest, in the cemetery of this parish, has buried the remains of Joseph DESTREMPES, died the day before yesterday, at the age of 76, farmer, husband of the deceased Charlotte CARPENTIER. In the presence of Francoi Line 91 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BURI SOUR DATA TEXT 10 August 1871, the undersigned priest, in the cemetery of this parish, has buried the remains of Joseph DESTREMPES, died the day before yesterday, at the age of 76, farmer, husband of the deceased Charlotte CARPENTIER. In the presence of Francoi CONC s Xavier DESTREMPES and Onesime PLANTE who have not signed. Line 92 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: BURI SOUR DATA TEXT 10 August 1871, the undersigned priest, in the cemetery of this parish, has buried the remains of Joseph DESTREMPES, died the day before yesterday, at the age of 76, farmer, husband of the deceased Charlotte CARPENTIER. In the presence of Francoi CONT Signed by Andre Brien, pastor Line 1175 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: MARR SOUR @S21061@ Line 1176 from GEDCOM File not recognizable or too long: MARR SOUR DATA

The following 1480 document is later Carpenter history.I happened upon it and thought someone might like to note it. The John and William are seemingly from the John b. 1410 in the Herefordshire Carpenter descent. The Pembryg co.is Pembridge co. in our parlance. I think we are dealing with Dilwyn and Homme Carpenters here. The document give us a few goodies that I for one was unaware of. William was knighted. Was William a priest? 1480 is well before the Reformation.What does 'vicar' imply? This need to be worked on and interpreted. Notice the "feoffment" applies to both Willy and Johnny. This means we are dealing with Carpenter family assets and not church assets. One interesting revelation in the document is that the property in question was cloth manufacture related. The term 'wever' or weaver referred perhaps not to a single artisan, but to the owner of a bigger facility. The term 'burgage' seems a fairly serious legal term for a large holding.I always suspected the Herefordshire Carpenters of being in the wool and cloth business, as I have blabbed about before. I like to picture them raising thier sheep and processing the wool in facilities they owned or partly owned. This document gets us real close to real life. At any rate this is the first actual document I have seen dealing with William of Homme.He has his title, his career and his real estate holdings.Ladies and gentlemen, I present you with the long mysterious Sir William of Homme. From Descriptive Catalogue of Deeds, pp. 31-2, document A. 10675. "Feoffment by John Dey of Nuneton and Agnes his wife, to Sir William Carpenter, perpetual vicar of the parish church of Staunton beside Pembryg, co. Hereford, John Carpenter, brother of the said William, Thomas Shepey of Nuneton, and Nicholas Dalton, otherwise called Tayler, of Kynges, co. Warwick, of a burgage and a half-burgage in Nuneton which they had by the gift of Richard George, Maud his wife, and John Freman of Coventre, who had the sameby the feoffment of John Thorp late of Coventre, 'weaver' to them and the heirs and assigns of the said William and John Carpenter. Witnesses:- Sir Richard Cokkes, vicaof the parish church of Nuneton, William Asshe, then bailiff of the said town and others (named). The Conception, 19 Edward IV. Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter

Dear John, Do you know if the family you referenced for Tiffany Shoop (who was looking for Elizabeth Carpenter's mothers info) was at any time in Louisiana? I've been looking for John D. Carpenter who would have been born around the same time as the one in the info you posted for her. >4. SAMSON A. CARPENTER (BENJAMIN SAMSON1) was born 1816 in South >Carolina. He married > NANCY MAYBERRY 1838. She was born 1817 in South Carolina. > >Children of SAMSON CARPENTER and NANCY MAYBERRY are: > i. MATAMORGILLA CARPENTER, b. 1839. > ii. JOHN D. CARPENTER, b. 1842. > iii. ELIZABETH A. CARPENTER, b. 1844. > iv. CLARINDA CARPENTER,b. 1848. > v. NANCY A. CARPENTER, b. 1850 > vi. LEVI D. CARPENTER, b. 1850. > vii. JOSEPH H. CARPENTER, b. 1853. > viii. SAMSON J. CARPENTER, b. 1855, AL; d. Nov 10, 1932, >Galveston, TX; m. ELIZA JANE ST.CLAIR, May 20, 1874; > b. May 20, 1851, Lavaca Co, TX; d. Feb 02, 1927, >Williamson Con, TX. > ix. LOVDY PINKNEY CARPENTER, b. May 20, 1851, Coffee Co, AL; m. >WINFIELD SCOT "SCOOT" ST. CLAIR; > born 1848. I see that some of the family were born in Texas and my great grandfather listed on his children's b.c. as from Shreveport. He married Mary Ella Martin from Houston which is not far from Galveston where one of the above named brothers was born. I may just be doing wishful thinking but they sound like they might fit. Any info you might have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time. Loretta Luquette

I just found a new (to me) error in Carpenter Memorial. I think I've pieced together part of a resolution, but am hoping someone out there has the straight scoop to confirm it. All of the following pertains to Orange County NY: On p. 162 we have Jesse Carpenter #340, of Joseph 91, Samuel 27, John 17. Jesse is alleged to have 4 kids; Joseph, Jesse, Clarissa, Hannah. On p. 283 we find Jesse Carpenter #983, of Colvin 336, Joseph 91, Samuel 27, John 17. This Jesse is ALSO alleged to have 4 kids...named Clara, Joseph, Jesse, Hannah. One might be tempted to think Jesse 983 named his kids after his uncle Jesse 340. Alas, the coincidence becomes too too great, when we note that both sets of offspring seem to be born on the same dates and married to the same people. Separately, Coleman's "Early Records of the First Presbyterian Church At Goshen New York" cites (at p. 116) the 1791 baptism of Joseph, Clarissa, Jesse, and Hannah--all offspring of Jesse Carpenter. The 1791 date seems to confirm Jesse the father of these four kids as being Jesse #340 (b. about 1740, p. 88). The other Jesse (983) is said on p. 161 to be born 1778--a contemporary, not a parent, of the four baptees. If so, that leaves open who might be the spouse and children of Jesse 983. (Any info on this?) OK; Considering the Jesse #340 info, we then note that ABC has BOTH Clarissa and Hannah marrying a David Roe of Chester NY (with an "as reported" qualifier w/r Hannah). Does anyone have independent info on either of these young ladies' marriages? Robin C.

-----Original Message----- From: Tiffany Shoop <shoops@bigsky.net> >Looking for info on Sarah Elizabeth Carpenter's mother Rebecca Donaldson. >This is the info on my family. Sarah Elizabeth Carpenter Married George >Washington Nelson the parents of my ggrandfather Benjamin David (called >"Buck") Nelson who married Elizabeth (called Polly) Rushing. > >But what I'm looking for is Sarah Elizabeth Carpenters ggggrandparents also. >Sarah was daughter of William Bailey Carpenter and Rebecca Donaldson, and >William Bailey Carpenter was son of Benjamin Samson Carpenter and Milly C. ? >I'd like to go back further. Any help you have would be greatly >appreciated. >Thank you, my email is shoops@bigsky.net. >Tiffany >I've listed part of what I have below for your reference. > >1. BENJAMIN SAMSON CARPENTER was born 1771, and died 1836 in Dale Co, Al. >He married MILLY C 1806. She was born 1780 in South Carolina, and died >After 1850. > >Children of BENJAMIN CARPENTER and MILLY C are: >2. i. WILLIAM BAILEY CARPENTER, b. 1808, South Carolina; d. >October 30, 1883, Alabama >3. ii. JOHN G. CARPENTER, b. 1810, South Carolina >4. iii. SAMSON A. CARPENTER, b. 1816, South Carolina >5. iv. NANCY CARPENTER, b. 1821, Alabama >6. v. BENJAMIN CARPENTER, b. 1824, Covington Co, AL; m. EMILY >TRENATHAM TREVER, 26 Oct 1846, Pike Co, AL > > Notes for BENJAMIN CARPENTER: > Resides in Van Zandt Co, Texas in the 1850 census > >7. vi. HOLLEY CARPENTER, b. 1826, AL (states for Alabama) > > >Generation No. 2 > > >2. WILLIAM BAILEY CARPENTER (BENJAMIN SAMSON1) was born 1808 in South >Carolina, and died October 30, 1883 in Alabama. He married REBECCA SAVANNAH >DONALDSON 1832 in Alabama. She was born about 1815 in South Carolina, and >died April 1884 in Alabama. > >Children of WILLIAM CARPENTER and REBECCA DONALDSON are: > i. SAMPSON HARMON CARPENTER, b. May 26, 1833, AL; m. >ELIZA ??, Abt. 1852, b. Oct 22, 1836 d. Oct 30, 1904, Piney Grove Baptist >Cem, Geneva Co, AL. > > Notes for SAMPSON HARMON CARPENTER: > Resided in covington Co, AL in the 1860 census. > > Served during the Civil War in Co F 33rd AL Inf Rgt > > Not listed in 1870 census indicates deceased > > Notes for ELIZA ??: > Resided as a widow in Geneva Co, AL in the 1870 census > > ii. BENJAMIN DAVID CARPENTER, b. Nov 25, 1834, Coffee >County, AL; d. Oct 13, 1919, Buried S. Butler Cem, AL; > m. ELIZABETH WARE, Aug 17, 1856, Covington Co, AL; b. >Auf 31, 1838, Macon Co, AL; d. Jan 11, 1924, Buried > S. Butler Cem, AL. > > Notes for BENJAMIN DAVID CARPENTER: > Served in the Civil War Co E 2nd AL Calvery drawing a >pension. > > iii. EMILY CARPENTER, b. February 28, 1836, Alabama > > ***iv. SARAH ELIZABETH CARPENTER*, (my gggrandmother) b. Nov >13, 1838, AL; d. Oct 01, 1912, Buried in Antioch > Cem, Coffee Co, AL; married GEORGE WASHINGTON NELSON, >b. Feb 08, 1824, AL; d. May 19, 1892, Buried in > Antioch Cem., Coffee Co, Alabama. (they had 13 >children) > > Notes for SARAH ELIZABETH CARPENTER: > 1860 Covington Co, AL (Rose Hill Pct) > > 1870 Creshaw Co, AL (Townshi-p 6 Pct) > > 1880 Covington Co, AL (Rose Hill Pct) > > Tribe of Dane, bloodline part of tribe of Dane Sarah >Elizabeth Carpenter Nelson was half Indian (Cherokee) > (not documented) > > At the time Sarah Elizabeth Carpenter Nelson filed for a >military pension after the death of her husband George > Washington Nelson, she stated her Real and Personal >properties were, 80 acres of land located in Beat No H, Coffee > County with value of $100.00. One log house value at >$250.00, 1horse/mule $25.00, 2 cattle of all kind $5.00 for a > total of $205.00. Date April 22, 1897. > > Notes for GEORGE WASHINGTON NELSON: > George Washington Nelson received land containing one >hundred and fifty-nine acres and thirty-four hundreths of an > acre. Homestead Certificate #17157. Application >#28890. This was listed in the East of St. Stephens Meridian, AL. > Signed by President Theodore Roosevelt. Dated Feb. 12, >1902. > > 1855 Farm Census for AL list 1 male and 1 female over >age 21 and 1 male under 21 > > *** 1860 Covington Co, AL(Rose Hill Pct) list George W Nelson >with wife, Elizabeth, and son William C, also twins > Emily M and James M. > > 1870 Crenshaw Co, AL (Rutledge Pct) list himself, wife, >Elizabeth with 7 children. > > > 1810 Covington Co, AL (District 3 4) list >himself, wife Elizabeth, with 8 children > > CONFEDERATE MILITARY RECORD > > Private G.W. Nelson > Company F 3rd Alabama Infantry Regiment > > While Pvt Nelson was serving with the 33rd Inf Reg his >regimental commander was Samuel Adams, Col. C.S.A. The > 33rd Regiment saw action at Perryville, Ky, there it was >part of General Braxton Bragg's Army. Maj Gen Lenidas > Polk was Corp commander, Brigade Commander was Brig Gen >S.A.M. Wood. Gen Wood was wounded during the > battle of Perryville. > > The 33rd Reg took part in the battle of Stone's River or >Murfreesboro. The Reg was part of the 4th Brigade which was > still commanded by Brig Gen S.A.M. Wood. The >confederate army lost 10,266 men in the battle. This was one out > of every four that entered the battle December 31, 1862. > > On September 19th and 20th 1883, the battle at >Chickamauga Ga, was fought. Gen S.A.M. Woods Brigade was > part of Maj Gen P.R. Cleburne's Division of Lt Gen >Daniel H. Hill's Corps. The confederates won a great battle but > lost 17, 804 men, the Union loss was 16, 179. The >Chickamauga River ran red with blood according to accounts > of the battle. > > The 33 AL was under Brig Gen Mark P Lowery's Brigade Nov >23 when the battle of Chattanooga opened up. > Lt Gen William J Hardee was Corp Commander. The >Division Commander was Maj Gen P.R. Cleburne. > Confederate Army, Pvt Nelson was discharged honorably >from the Army Aug 1st 1864. > > The South lost 34, 979 men defending Atlanta, the Union >lost 31, 687 men. > > Confederate notes from Mae Huggins, Ft Walton Bch, FL >11/18/1996 > > v. NANCY CARPENTER, b. December 06, 1841, Alabama; m. BILL >BRACKEN > vi. SUSAN R. CARPENTER, b. March 04, 1843, Alabama. > vii. WILLIAM CARPENTER, b. January 18, 1845, Alabama. > viii. SUFFRONIA CARPENTER, b. January 19, 1847, Alabama. > ix. MARTHA CARPENTER, b. March 08, 1849, Alabama; m. EABIN E. >BALDWIN, march 08, 1879. > *** x. GILES B. CARPENTER, **b. Feb. 22, 1853, AL; d. Oct 10, >1929, Butler Co, AL; m. CHARITY BRACKEN on > Oct. 31, 1875; b. May 30, 1848; d. July 01, 1923. > ** xi. DANIEL DOZIER "DOSH" CARPENTER, b. Oct 31, 1854, AL; m. >OPHELIA STEWART. > xxi. CAREY C. CARPENTER, b. Nov 07, 1856, AL; m. C. E. "LIZZY" >CARTER, 1890, b. May 1872. > >3. JOHN G. CARPENTER (Benjamin Samson1) was born 1810 in South Carolina. >He married > SARAH JEMIMA BLUFORD 1834. She was born 1810 in Georgiana, Butler >Co, AL. > >Children of JOHN CARPENTER and SARAH BLUFORD are: > i. JAMES M. CARPENTER, b. 1835; m. MARY J ??, Abt. 1860 > > Notes for JAMES M. CARPENTER: > Listed in the 1850 and 1860 Coffee Co, Al census > > ii. JOHN J. CARPENTER, b. 1838. > iii. BENJAMIN R. CARPENTER, b. 1842; d. Sep 02, 1862 in >hospital at Enterprise, Miss. Enlisted Mar 11, 1862 at > Brandon, Covington County, AL. > iv. ZYLPHIA (also spelled Zelphia)CARPENTER*(Jeanette's >ggrandmother) b. May 08, 1844 d. July 16, 1890, > married RICHARD ASA SMITH, 1862; b. Mar 27, 1840; d. Jan >27, 1886. > > Notes for RICHARD ASA SMITH: > Richard A Smith served as a private in Company F, 33rd >Alabama Infantry, CSA. He enlisted on Mar 11, 1862 at > Brandon's Store in Rose Hill, AL. He was captured by the >Union forces on 30 Nov 1864 and sent to the prisoner or > War Camp, Camp Douglas in Chicago, IL. Presumably, he >remained a prisoner there until the end of the war. > > v. SAMPSON ADMIRAL CARPENTER, b. Feb 02, 1847; d. Apr 07, >1906; m. LUCRETIA V. SMITH, Mar 5, 1868, > Crenshaw Co, AL; b. 1853, Covington Co, AL. > vi. MATTHEW C. CARPENTER, b. 1850. > vii. AMANDA D. CARPENTER, b. 1858. > >4. SAMSON A. CARPENTER (BENJAMIN SAMSON1) was born 1816 in South >Carolina. He married > NANCY MAYBERRY 1838. She was born 1817 in South Carolina. > >Children of SAMSON CARPENTER and NANCY MAYBERRY are: > i. MATAMORGILLA CARPENTER, b. 1839. > ii. JOHN D. CARPENTER, b. 1842. > iii. ELIZABETH A. CARPENTER, b. 1844. > iv. CLARINDA CARPENTER,b. 1848. > v. NANCY A. CARPENTER, b. 1850 > vi. LEVI D. CARPENTER, b. 1850. > vii. JOSEPH H. CARPENTER, b. 1853. > viii. SAMSON J. CARPENTER, b. 1855, AL; d. Nov 10, 1932, >Galveston, TX; m. ELIZA JANE ST.CLAIR, May 20, 1874; > b. May 20, 1851, Lavaca Co, TX; d. Feb 02, 1927, >Williamson Con, TX. > ix. LOVDY PINKNEY CARPENTER, b. May 20, 1851, Coffee Co, AL; m. >WINFIELD SCOT "SCOOT" ST. CLAIR; > born 1848. > >5. HOLLEY CARPENTER (BENJAMIN SAMSON1) b. 1826 AL; m. SARAH J ? 1855. >She was > born1838 in South Carolina. > >Children of HOLLEY CARPENTER and SARAH J are: > i. MORPHINE B. CARPENTER. > ii. JOSEPHINE V. CARPENTER. > > >GENERATION 3 OF > SARAH ELIZABETH CARPENTER (MINE) and >two sisters of Sarah's husband George W. Nelson >(of MARY (NELSON) BRYANT AND SAVANNAH (NELSON) BRYANT > >GEORGE WASHINGTON NELSON b. Feb 08, 1824 AL d. May 19, 1892 bur. Antioch >Cem, Coffee Co, Al; married SARAH ELIZABETH CARPENTER*(William Bailey >Carpenter2,Benjamin Samson Carpenter1) (MINE), daughter of WILLIAM BAILEY >CARPENTER and REBECCA SAVANNAH DONALDSON. She was born Nov 13, 1838 Al, d. >Oct. 01, 1912 buried at Antioch Cem, Coffee Co, AL. They had 13 children. > >Children of GEORGE NELSON and SARAH CARPENTER are: > i. WILLIAM C (HALL) NELSON, b. 1855, Rose Hill, AL; d. 1936, >Kinston, AL.m. MARANDI ? > > ii. EMILY M NELSON, b. 1858, Alabama m.JAKE ALDRIDGE. > > iii. JAMES M "JIM" NELSON, b. Dec 27, 1860, AL; d. Dec 07, >1950, Bur. Antioch Cem, Coffee Co, AL married > FRANCES C. NELSON. > > iv. *MARY NELSON, b. Dec. 27, 1860, Alabama m.ANDREW JACKSON >"JACK" BRYAN(T) son of GILES BRYAN(T) > and ANNICE LOPER. > > v. ZELPHIA SUSANA NELSON, (Jeanette's ggrandmother), July 09, >1864, Crenshaw Co, AL; d. Apr 25, 1944, in > Okaloosa County, Florida m. STEPHEN "TEB" JACKSON. > > vi. BENJAMIN "BUCK" NELSON*, (my ggrandfather, father of my >granny), b. Nov 08, 1867, AL; d. Apr 25, 1944, and > Bur. at Antioch Church Cem. Coffee Co, AL. m. ELIZABETH >"POLLY" RUSHING, daughter of "OFF" RUSHING > (MATTHEW M. "MACK" RUSHING). She was born Oct 15, 1872, >died Jun 28, 1938 and Bur at Antioch Church > Cem, Coffee, Co, AL. > > vii. SAVANNAH (NANCY?) NELSON, b. 1869; d. 1946, Enterprise, >Coffee Co, AL m.DORSEY BRYAN(T). > > viii. AQUILLA "QUILLIE" NELSON,b. Jan 08, 1871, AL; d. 1959, AL >m. MARTHA ROGERS. > > ix. GEORGIANN NELSON* (Gina's gggrandmother) b. Nov 18, 1873, >AL; d. Feb 06, 1957, Mississippi married > WILLIAM JASPER ATWELL. > > x. VICTORIA "BABE" NELSON, b. 1876, AL; d. Jan 1962, Covington >Co, AL.m. BILL HENLEY son of ELMORE HENLEY > and REBECCA CARPENTER. > > xi. ELWOOD NELSON,b. Nov 08, 1878, AL; d. Mar 15, 1958, AL m. >ALICE ROGERS. > > xii. MANNIE B. NELSON, b. May 1881, AL; d. Dec 04, 1960, Bur. >Antioch Cem, Coffee Co, Alabama married > EULA CARTWRIGHT. > > xiii. BAMA NELSON, b. Nov 19, 1880, AL; d. Jan 01, 1964, Bur. >Antioch Cem, Coffee Co, Alabama m. GEORGE HOLMES. > > >In reference to "vi" above; Buck and Polly had 13 children too: > > 1. BURL NELSON > 2. ERNEST NELSON > 3. TOBE NELSON > 4. LENA NELSON > 5. LELA NELSON > 6. MAUDE NELSON > 7. MINNIE NELSON* (My grandmother) m. James Oscar Hataway. > 8. DELLIE NELSON > 9. KYE NELSON > 10. LEONARD "LINWOOD" NELSON m. ESTHER MADLYN "MATTIE" SPIVEY. > 11. EDLOW NELSON > > >MARY NELSON daughter of George Washington Nelson and Sarah Elizabeth >Carpenter, was born on >Dec 27, 1860 in AL. she married ANDREW JACKSON "JACK" BRYANT(T) Jan 04, >1885 in Coffee Co, AL, son of *GILES BRYAN(T) and ANNICE LOPER. > >Notes for Andrew Jackson "Jack" Bryan(t). >Jack Bryant accidently killed himself while hunting squirrels. > >Children of MARY NELSON and ANDREW J. BRYAN(T) are: > 1. *GILES BRYANT. > 2. KIMMY BRYANT. > 3. JEFFIE BRYANT. > 4. ALTO BRYANT. > > >SAVANNAH (NANCY?) NELSON also daughter of George Washington Nelson and Sarah >Elizabeth Carpenter, was born 1869, and died 1946 in Enterprise, Coffeee Co >AL married DORSEY B BRYAN(T) 1887, he was born 1868 in Coffee Co, AL; died >aft. 1920. > >Children of SAVANNAH NELSON and DORSEY BRYAN(T) are: > 1. *JILES W BRYAN(T), b. Aug. 30, 1889; d. Mar 01, 1964; m. >SARAH FLOYD; b. Dec 09, 1860; > died Nov 06, 1961. > > 2. AUGUSTA E. BRYAN(T), b. Jul 24, 1891; d. Florida; m. >JOSEPHUS RICHARDS, b. Oct 1889. > > 3. HANFORD ELWOOD BRYAN(T),b. Oct 08 1891? d. Feb 1972 m. >LILLIE SMART b. Dec 1895 Coffee Co AL > > 4. FANNIE BRYAN(T), b. Feb 1896; m. JOSEPH C. SMART b. Nov >1892, Coffee Co, AL > > 5. KIMMEY R BRYAN(T), b. Jan 28, 1898 d.Nov 1985, Florida m. >LIZZIE WALTERS b. 1900 > > 6. JEFFERSON BRYAN(T), b. 1902. > > 7. CLAUDIA BRYAN(T), b. 1904 m. MAX MCKLIN. > > 8. EDLOW BRYAN(T), b. Dec 25, 1905 d. Apr 1988, Geneva Co, AL >m. EMMA DAVIS d. Apr 1944. > > 9. ALTO BRYAN(T), b. 1909 d. 1940, Tuscaloosa, AL. > > 10. MAUDIE ALMA BRYAN(T), b. Sep 12, 1910 m. SYLVESTER HOLLAND, >b. Jan 30, 1906 d. 1987 Enterprise, Coffee > County, Alabama. > > >

Can any body help Karen -----Original Message----- From: Karen Listick <Fanfare@ix.netcom.com> >I am a descendant of Nathan Carpenter, born July 1823 in New York. He >married Eunice Slater on 2 Sept 1855 in Essex, VT. I don't have >Nathan's parent's names, but know his father was born in New Hampshire >and his mother was born in New York. I am wondering if you have >anything in your files about this person. I'm finding it awfully >difficult to get information on Nathan! If you can help me at all, I >would really appreciate it. Thanks very much. > >Karen Listick >Pacific Palisades, CA > >

I was happy to open a musty set of old books from storage at the University of Washington this morning, entitled (in translation from the French), Collected Documents Relating to the Flemish Cloth Industry. It was actually not a surprise as I scanned the index (an expected discovery) and found the names and city locations of the many great Flemish Carpentier cloth merchants of the Middle Ages. Bruce E. Carpenter

http://hometown.aol.com/lcml/JohnElizabethLongwell.html Constance Ardelle Hall b: April 18, 1917 her second husband was Henry Townsend Carpenter. They had 3 daughters 1. Cynda Adams Carpenter b: May 26th 1948 and she married Alan Howard Stafford. 2. Candyce Arada Carpenter b: October 1, 1949. she marriedRussell Roland Irwin and they had 3 children. 2nd Candyce married Anthony Edward Trombley and they had two children. 3. Kimberly Ann Carpenter b: February 3, 1954, she married Peter Alan Scalia. Second husband of Kimberly is Richard William Williams. They had two children.

http://hometown.aol.com/lcml/JohnElizabethLongwell.html Almira R Townsend b: July 11, 1816 in Steuben County, New York d: August 22, 1883 in Warren, Ill. M: Elijah Carpenter b: 1812 d: February 11, 1897 buried at Warren, Jo Davies County, Illinois

I found the county locator I was looking for. Here it is. http://resources.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/townco.cgi S Warfield CARPENTER-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Subject: > > CARPENTER-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 238 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: CARPENTER-D Digest V99 #237 [Sally Warfield <smwarfield@primary] > #2 Re: CARPENTER-D Digest V99 #237 ["C.A.Carpenter ( Chuck's Wood-Knot] > #3 London Merchants II ["Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from CARPENTER-D, send a message to > > CARPENTER-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: CARPENTER-D Digest V99 #237 > Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 10:39:51 -0500 > From: Sally Warfield <smwarfield@primary.net> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > I lost my bookmarked place for finding out the county that a city is in. All you > have to do is type in the city and state name and it tells the county. Anybody out > there who can put me back on track of this site? > Thank you. Shirley > > CARPENTER-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Subject: > > > > CARPENTER-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 237 > > > > Today's Topics: > > #1 Merchant Carpenters 1 ["Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey] > > > > Administrivia: > > To unsubscribe from CARPENTER-D, send a message to > > > > CARPENTER-D-request@rootsweb.com > > > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > > > unsubscribe > > > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > > > ______________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Merchant Carpenters 1 > > Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:15:03 -0700 > > From: "Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey.com> > > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > > > In previous notices much was said about the London Carpenters from the > > middle 1200s to the time of Richard Carpenter, father of Town Clerk John > > Carpenter. A very early group (1237-42) of Carpenters was seen in Middlesex. > > This group seemed to have been the earliest Carpenter group in the London > > area. A William Carpenter was seen at a slightly later date (C. 1260) in the > > St. Clement Danes’ neighborhood, who must have been the first in a series of > > Carpenters in that St.Clement Danes’ and Fleetstreet area. In particular was > > the wealthy merchant Edward Carpenter. We discovered Richard Carpenter, in > > the 1390s, with the same geographical spread of properties, and residing in > > the same general neighborhood as William and Edward had. However a gap > > existed for the early and middle 1300s. Material now found in the Calendar > > of Letter-Books of the City of London (London, 1903), can now make up for > > this seeming break in the historical record. > > First, a fortuitous felony case provides another family member name for > > Fleetstreet for September 29, 1343. > > > > “Rodger de Norhamptone, “squyler”, taken at the suit of Pain de Mentriche, > > brewer, with the mainour of a cup of mazer, of the value of half a mark, > > feloniously thieved from the said Pain in the parish of St. Bride de > > Fletestreet on Wednesday after the feast of St. Michael, the year aforesaid, > > whereof the said Pain appeals him. Pledges for prosecution, viz., Reginald > > de Thorpe and John Walsheman, “cordewaner.” The said Rodger says he is not > > guilty, and puts himself upon the country. A jury comes by Alexander > > Fraunceys, John Truent, Richard Hert, Alan de Fisshbourne, John Walsheman, > > John de Pymeworth, Simon de Dordright, William de Abyndone, Adam de Oxon’, > > William de Hestone, “cordwaner,” Nicholas le Carpenter, and Richard le > > Sadelere, who say on oath that the said Rodger is guilty. Therefore [let him > > be] hanged. Chattels none.” > > > > A Nicholas le Carpenter had been seen in a 1329 document as the > > owner/captain of a merchant ship, ‘La Cogge Nostre Dame’ in the Southampton > > area, and as the son of a John le Carpenter in York in a 1327 Close Rolls > > notation. In 1308 we found him at the merchant’s fair in Boston with > > probable close relatives Walter and a Gilbert le Carpenter. Later, in 1380, > > a land case survived relating to Richard Carpenter, with the explanation > > that the land in question was, “The same land sometime of Gilbert > > Carpenter.” Richard Carpenter was certainly a relative of Gilbert and the > > other Carpenters of this merchant group with merchant activities and land > > holdings in many coastal areas at the time. > > In the interesting documents that described the salvage activities of a > > French ship in 1305, we were able to assemble the names of relatives of the > > wealthy Edward Carpenter. His wine merchant son Robert was the most notable, > > supplying wine to the royal household. Also however, were relatives Martin, > > William and John Carpenter. This John could easily have been the father of > > Nicholas, a wine merchant as was his likely uncle, Robert. Also the Jean le > > Carpenter “merchant”, who was granted a charter to export wool in 1273, > > could be the above John Carpenter as well. > > The William Carpenter that appears in the salvage disposition of 1305, > > seems to appear in many 1300s London documents. He is an interesting > > Carpenter merchant who belongs to the very influential “pepperer and spicer” > > guild. This organization was one of the major five merchant organizations > > and had a wide range of activity, including wine import and wool export. The > > community ranking of this William Carpenter can be seen from the fact that > > his opinion was officially sought in a citywide law case concerning legal > > membership in the merchant’s guild (Calendar of Letter Books, E, pp. > > 119-20). > > > > “Writ to the Mayor and Sheriffs for an inquiry to be held as to whether > > Herman Swart de Sussalt, Conred ate Broke de Grippeswold were merchants of > > the Hanse of Almaine in England at the time…” > > > > “The jury, viz., William de Flete, Reginald de Conduit, John Saleman, John > > de Pampesworth, Thomas de Donlee, William de Garton, William le Carpenter, > > spicer,…”. > > > > William’s community importance is underlined in a 1320 notation that records > > his involvement in a substantial loan > > (a favorite medieval Carpenter activity) to the king for a thousand pounds > > (see same above, pp. 126-9). A family connection of this wealthy and > > powerful merchant Carpenter to his contemporary Edward Carpenter of St. > > Clement Danes’ seems most probable. The above is suggestive of family > > connections between merchant Carpenters Gilbert, Edward and William, and the > > above three with a Richard Carpenter in the later 1300s (to be continued). > > > > Bruce E. Carpenter > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: CARPENTER-D Digest V99 #237 > Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:56:48 -0400 > From: "C.A.Carpenter ( Chuck's Wood-Knots)" <chuck2@evcom.net> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > At 10:39 AM 10/2/1999 -0500, Sally Warfield wrote: > >I lost my bookmarked place for finding out the county that a city is in. > >All you > >have to do is type in the city and state name and it tells the county. > >Anybody out > >there who can put me back on track of this site? > >Thank you. Shirley > > http://mapping.usgs.gov/www/gnis/gnisform.html > > Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: > http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html > > Carpenter Genealogy at: > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: London Merchants II > Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 21:16:31 -0700 > From: "Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey.com> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > The next London Carpenter to be introduced is Rodger Carpenter, likewise > a pepperer/spicer like the previous William. No indication of relationship > is divulged in the Calendar of Letter-Books. However, when Rodger passes > away, and subsequently his heir is Thomas is guaranteed his rights of > inheritance, an all-important clue of other family connections is divulged. > Like William Carpenter before him, Rodger Carpenter is the possessor of > substantial assets. > > “On Ash Wedsday [1 March], 14 Edward III. [A.D. 1339-40], came Sir Robert de > Askeby, clerk for the lord the king, to the Guildhall, and announced to > Andrew Aubri, the Mayor, on the King’s behalf, that he and all the aldermen, > together with the more discreet and wealthier men of the City, were to > appear before the King and his Council at Westminster on the following > Thursday to treat certain matters. Upon their appearing on the day named the > King desired a loan of L.20, 000 and allowed them until the next day to > consider the matter. On Friday, the Mayor, Aldermen, and a great > commonality, after consulting together in the Chapter House at Westminster, > agreed to advance the sum of 5,000 marks and no more. This sum was rejected > as inadequate, and they were ordered to bring the names of all the wealthier > citizens in writing, to be submitted to the King and his Council for purpose > of assessment on the following Sunday.” Letter-Books, F., pp. 45-6) > > In the end a compromise was reached and the king received five thousand > pounds. In the list of those who made their contribution, to what was > essentially royal extortion, was the name of Rodger Carpenter, one of the > “rich” of the City of London. Rodger’s good name appears in many other > documents as well, as a witness in court proceedings. In another document > Rodger is included in a list with mayor and aldermen for the city that > scripted and passed legislation. In another document Rodger and fellow > merchants are asked yet again for money for the crown. Finally after copious > real estate entries the demise of Roger Carpenter is recorded for 1349. > > “Wednesday before the Nativity of the Lord [25 Dec.], 23 Edward III. [A.D. > 1349], the guradianship of Thomas, son of Rodger le Carpenter, “spicer”, > commited to Thomas de Brandone, mercer, by Walter Turk, Mayor, Richard > Lacer, Rodger de Depham, Aldermen, and Thomas de Waldene, the Chamberlain, > by assent of William de Chalk and Agnes his wife, the aunt and nearest > friend of the said Thomas, together with the sum of L.45, and rents of the > value of 105s. 9 ½ d., to hold in trust for the said infant, who is not to > marry without the permission of the Mayor and Aldermen. Surities, viz., > Richard Vyncent, Rector of the Church of St. Benedict de Shorhogge, who > holds a lay fee in the parish of St. Augustine, near St. Paul’s gate, and > Adam Fraunceys, mercer.” (Letter-Books, F., p. 200) > > The interesting revelation here is the identification of Rodger’s > sister, Agnes Carpenter. Agnes had appeared as one of the children of > property rich John Carpenter in the early 1300s. Agnes inherited the rights > to land that her father had held from Queen Philippa. John Carpenter’s manor > holdings were so geographically diverse and import that the litigation took > a number of years. John Carpenter was knighted. His death took place in 1339 > and his main manor seemed to be just outside London in Berkhamstead, > although he possessed manorial holdings in Oxford, Wiltshire and other > locations. Fortunately the original documents identify his father as also a > John le Carpenter, who must have lived in the late 1200s. It is tempting to > equate this knighted John Carpenter with the John that appeared with Edward > Charpenter, his son Robert and three other Carpenters in the 1305 ship > salvage document. Likewise it is tempting to assign the ancestor of many of > these Carpenters to a Jean le Carpenter, who was an > officially designated wool exporter in 1273. At the least, the connections > that are beginning to emerge between these individuals point to an enormous > merchant-trading family. In my next message I will return again to the theme > of wine and the interesting evidence for Rodger Carpenter’s involvement in > it. > > Sincerely, > Bruce E. Carpenter

Previously we saw that Sir John Carpenter, knight from Berkhamstead outside of London, was the brother the wealthy merchant-pepperer Roger Carpenter. Sir John’s sister Agnes was an important part of the estate settlement of her Nephew Thomas, son of Rodger Carpenter. In the series of dispositions connected to the properties of Sir John Carpenter, a brother Thomas was named. This Thomas Carpenter must surely be the Thomas Carpenter named in the following: “Lease by Thomas, son of Henry Hauteyn, late pepperer, and Johanna his wife, to William de Holbeche, draper, of a certain tenement in the parish of St. Benedict Shorhog, situate near the tenements of Thomas Carpenter and John de Gisors; to hold the same for a term of ten years from Easter [1 April], 21 Edward III., at an annual rent of 10 marks. Witnesses, Rodger Carpenter, Thomas Holbeche, John de Coggeshale, Nicholas Guillem, William Peautrer, Richard “Monoye Coco,” and Peter de Tilneye. Dated Friday before the Annunciation B.M. [25 March], 21 Edward III. [A.D. 1346-7].” (Letter-Book F. p. 160) A year later the same tenements are discussed with the the wording “Situate near the tenements of Rodger Carpenter, John Gisors and William Curteys.” (p. 177) Thomas had evidently died and Rodger was now owner. The special interest in the above however, is in the mention of John de Gisors, as probable joint owner of property with Thomas and then Rodger Carpenter. John Gisors “the third” as he should properly be referred to, was mayor of London a total of seven times, and rightly he should have, because he was heir to one of the greatest merchant fortunes in English medieval history. Gisors was a nominal pepperer, and like others of his trade and ancestry, actively imported wines from Gascony in France. Every indication has it that the Gisors were Gascons themselves. Gisor’s grangfather, the first John Gisors, was the greatest wine importer of all time despite his nominal profession as a pepperer. He was a personal friend of King Henry III and his ships took the queen to Gascony 1252 (see Crawford, A History of the Vintner’s Company, pp. 42-47). This goes a long way to explain the “pepperer” designation for William and Rodger Carpenter. The “real money” was in the import and export of other commodities, and here wine. Likewise the Gascony connection here deepens the evidence and my suspicions of profound Carpenter ties to the area. At a later date I will introduce Elias Carpenter, the family business agent, or “factor” as they were called, in Gascony. I do not suggest here that the Carpenters originated in Gascony, but as you will later see, their dealings with the area were large scale. The Gisor–Carpenter association here also sheds light on the previously discussed connection of Sir John Carpenter of Berkhamstead with Sir John de Haveringg, the Seneschal of Gascony. Bruce E. Carpenter

Bruce, do you have a Benjamin Carpenter. He had a daughter Lydia and a grand daughter Desire Gore. Desire was born May 20 1785 Windham, Vt Carolyn Nelson

The next London Carpenter to be introduced is Rodger Carpenter, likewise a pepperer/spicer like the previous William. No indication of relationship is divulged in the Calendar of Letter-Books. However, when Rodger passes away, and subsequently his heir is Thomas is guaranteed his rights of inheritance, an all-important clue of other family connections is divulged. Like William Carpenter before him, Rodger Carpenter is the possessor of substantial assets. “On Ash Wedsday [1 March], 14 Edward III. [A.D. 1339-40], came Sir Robert de Askeby, clerk for the lord the king, to the Guildhall, and announced to Andrew Aubri, the Mayor, on the King’s behalf, that he and all the aldermen, together with the more discreet and wealthier men of the City, were to appear before the King and his Council at Westminster on the following Thursday to treat certain matters. Upon their appearing on the day named the King desired a loan of L.20, 000 and allowed them until the next day to consider the matter. On Friday, the Mayor, Aldermen, and a great commonality, after consulting together in the Chapter House at Westminster, agreed to advance the sum of 5,000 marks and no more. This sum was rejected as inadequate, and they were ordered to bring the names of all the wealthier citizens in writing, to be submitted to the King and his Council for purpose of assessment on the following Sunday.” Letter-Books, F., pp. 45-6) In the end a compromise was reached and the king received five thousand pounds. In the list of those who made their contribution, to what was essentially royal extortion, was the name of Rodger Carpenter, one of the “rich” of the City of London. Rodger’s good name appears in many other documents as well, as a witness in court proceedings. In another document Rodger is included in a list with mayor and aldermen for the city that scripted and passed legislation. In another document Rodger and fellow merchants are asked yet again for money for the crown. Finally after copious real estate entries the demise of Roger Carpenter is recorded for 1349. “Wednesday before the Nativity of the Lord [25 Dec.], 23 Edward III. [A.D. 1349], the guradianship of Thomas, son of Rodger le Carpenter, “spicer”, commited to Thomas de Brandone, mercer, by Walter Turk, Mayor, Richard Lacer, Rodger de Depham, Aldermen, and Thomas de Waldene, the Chamberlain, by assent of William de Chalk and Agnes his wife, the aunt and nearest friend of the said Thomas, together with the sum of L.45, and rents of the value of 105s. 9 ½ d., to hold in trust for the said infant, who is not to marry without the permission of the Mayor and Aldermen. Surities, viz., Richard Vyncent, Rector of the Church of St. Benedict de Shorhogge, who holds a lay fee in the parish of St. Augustine, near St. Paul’s gate, and Adam Fraunceys, mercer.” (Letter-Books, F., p. 200) The interesting revelation here is the identification of Rodger’s sister, Agnes Carpenter. Agnes had appeared as one of the children of property rich John Carpenter in the early 1300s. Agnes inherited the rights to land that her father had held from Queen Philippa. John Carpenter’s manor holdings were so geographically diverse and import that the litigation took a number of years. John Carpenter was knighted. His death took place in 1339 and his main manor seemed to be just outside London in Berkhamstead, although he possessed manorial holdings in Oxford, Wiltshire and other locations. Fortunately the original documents identify his father as also a John le Carpenter, who must have lived in the late 1200s. It is tempting to equate this knighted John Carpenter with the John that appeared with Edward Charpenter, his son Robert and three other Carpenters in the 1305 ship salvage document. Likewise it is tempting to assign the ancestor of many of these Carpenters to a Jean le Carpenter, who was an officially designated wool exporter in 1273. At the least, the connections that are beginning to emerge between these individuals point to an enormous merchant-trading family. In my next message I will return again to the theme of wine and the interesting evidence for Rodger Carpenter’s involvement in it. Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter

At 10:39 AM 10/2/1999 -0500, Sally Warfield wrote: >I lost my bookmarked place for finding out the county that a city is in. >All you >have to do is type in the city and state name and it tells the county. >Anybody out >there who can put me back on track of this site? >Thank you. Shirley http://mapping.usgs.gov/www/gnis/gnisform.html Please visit my web site "Chuck's Wood-Knots" at: http://www.evcom.net/~chuck2/index.html Carpenter Genealogy at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6712/index.html

I lost my bookmarked place for finding out the county that a city is in. All you have to do is type in the city and state name and it tells the county. Anybody out there who can put me back on track of this site? Thank you. Shirley CARPENTER-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Subject: > > CARPENTER-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 237 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Merchant Carpenters 1 ["Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from CARPENTER-D, send a message to > > CARPENTER-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Merchant Carpenters 1 > Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:15:03 -0700 > From: "Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp@whidbey.com> > To: CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com > > In previous notices much was said about the London Carpenters from the > middle 1200s to the time of Richard Carpenter, father of Town Clerk John > Carpenter. A very early group (1237-42) of Carpenters was seen in Middlesex. > This group seemed to have been the earliest Carpenter group in the London > area. A William Carpenter was seen at a slightly later date (C. 1260) in the > St. Clement Danes’ neighborhood, who must have been the first in a series of > Carpenters in that St.Clement Danes’ and Fleetstreet area. In particular was > the wealthy merchant Edward Carpenter. We discovered Richard Carpenter, in > the 1390s, with the same geographical spread of properties, and residing in > the same general neighborhood as William and Edward had. However a gap > existed for the early and middle 1300s. Material now found in the Calendar > of Letter-Books of the City of London (London, 1903), can now make up for > this seeming break in the historical record. > First, a fortuitous felony case provides another family member name for > Fleetstreet for September 29, 1343. > > “Rodger de Norhamptone, “squyler”, taken at the suit of Pain de Mentriche, > brewer, with the mainour of a cup of mazer, of the value of half a mark, > feloniously thieved from the said Pain in the parish of St. Bride de > Fletestreet on Wednesday after the feast of St. Michael, the year aforesaid, > whereof the said Pain appeals him. Pledges for prosecution, viz., Reginald > de Thorpe and John Walsheman, “cordewaner.” The said Rodger says he is not > guilty, and puts himself upon the country. A jury comes by Alexander > Fraunceys, John Truent, Richard Hert, Alan de Fisshbourne, John Walsheman, > John de Pymeworth, Simon de Dordright, William de Abyndone, Adam de Oxon’, > William de Hestone, “cordwaner,” Nicholas le Carpenter, and Richard le > Sadelere, who say on oath that the said Rodger is guilty. Therefore [let him > be] hanged. Chattels none.” > > A Nicholas le Carpenter had been seen in a 1329 document as the > owner/captain of a merchant ship, ‘La Cogge Nostre Dame’ in the Southampton > area, and as the son of a John le Carpenter in York in a 1327 Close Rolls > notation. In 1308 we found him at the merchant’s fair in Boston with > probable close relatives Walter and a Gilbert le Carpenter. Later, in 1380, > a land case survived relating to Richard Carpenter, with the explanation > that the land in question was, “The same land sometime of Gilbert > Carpenter.” Richard Carpenter was certainly a relative of Gilbert and the > other Carpenters of this merchant group with merchant activities and land > holdings in many coastal areas at the time. > In the interesting documents that described the salvage activities of a > French ship in 1305, we were able to assemble the names of relatives of the > wealthy Edward Carpenter. His wine merchant son Robert was the most notable, > supplying wine to the royal household. Also however, were relatives Martin, > William and John Carpenter. This John could easily have been the father of > Nicholas, a wine merchant as was his likely uncle, Robert. Also the Jean le > Carpenter “merchant”, who was granted a charter to export wool in 1273, > could be the above John Carpenter as well. > The William Carpenter that appears in the salvage disposition of 1305, > seems to appear in many 1300s London documents. He is an interesting > Carpenter merchant who belongs to the very influential “pepperer and spicer” > guild. This organization was one of the major five merchant organizations > and had a wide range of activity, including wine import and wool export. The > community ranking of this William Carpenter can be seen from the fact that > his opinion was officially sought in a citywide law case concerning legal > membership in the merchant’s guild (Calendar of Letter Books, E, pp. > 119-20). > > “Writ to the Mayor and Sheriffs for an inquiry to be held as to whether > Herman Swart de Sussalt, Conred ate Broke de Grippeswold were merchants of > the Hanse of Almaine in England at the time…” > > “The jury, viz., William de Flete, Reginald de Conduit, John Saleman, John > de Pampesworth, Thomas de Donlee, William de Garton, William le Carpenter, > spicer,…”. > > William’s community importance is underlined in a 1320 notation that records > his involvement in a substantial loan > (a favorite medieval Carpenter activity) to the king for a thousand pounds > (see same above, pp. 126-9). A family connection of this wealthy and > powerful merchant Carpenter to his contemporary Edward Carpenter of St. > Clement Danes’ seems most probable. The above is suggestive of family > connections between merchant Carpenters Gilbert, Edward and William, and the > above three with a Richard Carpenter in the later 1300s (to be continued). > > Bruce E. Carpenter

In previous notices much was said about the London Carpenters from the middle 1200s to the time of Richard Carpenter, father of Town Clerk John Carpenter. A very early group (1237-42) of Carpenters was seen in Middlesex. This group seemed to have been the earliest Carpenter group in the London area. A William Carpenter was seen at a slightly later date (C. 1260) in the St. Clement Danes’ neighborhood, who must have been the first in a series of Carpenters in that St.Clement Danes’ and Fleetstreet area. In particular was the wealthy merchant Edward Carpenter. We discovered Richard Carpenter, in the 1390s, with the same geographical spread of properties, and residing in the same general neighborhood as William and Edward had. However a gap existed for the early and middle 1300s. Material now found in the Calendar of Letter-Books of the City of London (London, 1903), can now make up for this seeming break in the historical record. First, a fortuitous felony case provides another family member name for Fleetstreet for September 29, 1343. “Rodger de Norhamptone, “squyler”, taken at the suit of Pain de Mentriche, brewer, with the mainour of a cup of mazer, of the value of half a mark, feloniously thieved from the said Pain in the parish of St. Bride de Fletestreet on Wednesday after the feast of St. Michael, the year aforesaid, whereof the said Pain appeals him. Pledges for prosecution, viz., Reginald de Thorpe and John Walsheman, “cordewaner.” The said Rodger says he is not guilty, and puts himself upon the country. A jury comes by Alexander Fraunceys, John Truent, Richard Hert, Alan de Fisshbourne, John Walsheman, John de Pymeworth, Simon de Dordright, William de Abyndone, Adam de Oxon’, William de Hestone, “cordwaner,” Nicholas le Carpenter, and Richard le Sadelere, who say on oath that the said Rodger is guilty. Therefore [let him be] hanged. Chattels none.” A Nicholas le Carpenter had been seen in a 1329 document as the owner/captain of a merchant ship, ‘La Cogge Nostre Dame’ in the Southampton area, and as the son of a John le Carpenter in York in a 1327 Close Rolls notation. In 1308 we found him at the merchant’s fair in Boston with probable close relatives Walter and a Gilbert le Carpenter. Later, in 1380, a land case survived relating to Richard Carpenter, with the explanation that the land in question was, “The same land sometime of Gilbert Carpenter.” Richard Carpenter was certainly a relative of Gilbert and the other Carpenters of this merchant group with merchant activities and land holdings in many coastal areas at the time. In the interesting documents that described the salvage activities of a French ship in 1305, we were able to assemble the names of relatives of the wealthy Edward Carpenter. His wine merchant son Robert was the most notable, supplying wine to the royal household. Also however, were relatives Martin, William and John Carpenter. This John could easily have been the father of Nicholas, a wine merchant as was his likely uncle, Robert. Also the Jean le Carpenter “merchant”, who was granted a charter to export wool in 1273, could be the above John Carpenter as well. The William Carpenter that appears in the salvage disposition of 1305, seems to appear in many 1300s London documents. He is an interesting Carpenter merchant who belongs to the very influential “pepperer and spicer” guild. This organization was one of the major five merchant organizations and had a wide range of activity, including wine import and wool export. The community ranking of this William Carpenter can be seen from the fact that his opinion was officially sought in a citywide law case concerning legal membership in the merchant’s guild (Calendar of Letter Books, E, pp. 119-20). “Writ to the Mayor and Sheriffs for an inquiry to be held as to whether Herman Swart de Sussalt, Conred ate Broke de Grippeswold were merchants of the Hanse of Almaine in England at the time…” “The jury, viz., William de Flete, Reginald de Conduit, John Saleman, John de Pampesworth, Thomas de Donlee, William de Garton, William le Carpenter, spicer,…”. William’s community importance is underlined in a 1320 notation that records his involvement in a substantial loan (a favorite medieval Carpenter activity) to the king for a thousand pounds (see same above, pp. 126-9). A family connection of this wealthy and powerful merchant Carpenter to his contemporary Edward Carpenter of St. Clement Danes’ seems most probable. The above is suggestive of family connections between merchant Carpenters Gilbert, Edward and William, and the above three with a Richard Carpenter in the later 1300s (to be continued). Bruce E. Carpenter

Tim, my great grandfather was John, b. in Steuben county to Timothy Carpenter, b. Pittstown, Rensselaer county NY, 27 March, 1800. There was a Daniel Benedict Carpenter, b. also in Rensselaer county, 1788, Timothy's cousin and married to Timothy's sister, Huldah, who move to Chatauqua county in 1807 as did his brother James after their father Josiah bought land there (1000 acres). Other brothers who went there were Isaac, Josiah and Timothy. Not my gggrandfather, but they were his first cousins. So far as my information goes, none of these had sons named Daniel, but there were a lot of Carpenters in and around Harmony in Chatauqua county and I suspect they were all cousins. I hope this is a help and not just a confusion. --- Kjgcarp@aol.com wrote: > John - what was your greatgrandfather's name. I > believe my Daniel Carpenter > came from Chautauqua Co. > > Kris > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com