Dear Phoebe, Thanks! You help shed a few more details on Nathaniel, son of Benjamin Carpenter below! Thanks again! John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA MzCortez@aol.com wrote: > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyccazen/Cemeteries/Peripheral/DelphiFallsCem.html > > Looking for my Moses Carpenter, not here, but some other Carpenters are. > > Phoebe ************************************************************ Descendants of Benjamin CARPENTER-17220 First Generation 1. Benjamin CARPENTER-17220 was born 1753 in Chester, Orange, NY. He died 28 Sep 1828 in Goshen, Orange, NY. !Benjamin Carpenter served in the Americal Revolution, He fought in the battle of Montgomery, NY on the Hudson River bank against Britsh General Sir Henry Clinton, and Earl. The Carpenter cousins named Clinton (Gen. James Clinton and Gen. George Clinton) were fighting their Britsh Cousins. This family line submitted by John E. Proctor (brn 1933) of Stillwell KS 4/96 Benjamin married (1-MRIN:6129) Lydia CHANDLER-17221, daughter of Nathaniel CHANDLER-20250 (MRIN:7289) on 24 Dec 1776 in New Windsor, NY. Lydia was born about 1754 in NY. This family line submitted by John E. Proctor (brn 1933) of Stillwell KS 4/96 Benjamin and Lydia had the following children: + 2 M i. Nathaniel CARPENTER-47914 was born 2 May 1777 and died 6 Dec 1863. + 3 F ii. Hannah CARPENTER-17222 was born 1786. 4 M iii. Samuel CARPENTER-17223 was born 1784 in Goshen, Orange, NY and was christened 1 Apr 1786 in Presbyterian, Church, Goshen, NY. Baptisim record comes from Rutenber's "History of the Presbyterian Church, Goshen NY" This family line submitted by John E. Proctor (brn 1933) of Stillwell KS 4/96 Second Generation 2. Nathaniel CARPENTER-47914 was born 2 May 1777 in Goshen, Orange, NY. He died 6 Dec 1863 in Onondaga, NY and was buried in Baptist Cem., Delphi Falls, Onondaga, NY. !Not in the Proctor database but in the IGI. This Nathaniel is believed to be the same Nathaniel buried in Delphi Falls, NY. Living in close proximity was Nathaniel Carpenter b. abt. 1777 CT; d. 6 Dec 1863 NY; m. Lucy Gage b. 21 Nov 1780 Woodstock Twp, Windhan, CT; d. 7 Sep 1874*** NY d/o Elisha Gage b. 1753; d. 31 May 1833 and Olive Underwood b. 1756, d. 13 Jul 1835. ***Conflict*** Death date for Lucy listed as 20 Jan 1860, age 79 years on cemetery data below. All buried Delphi Falls, Onondaga Co., NY cemetery behind the Baptist church. Burial list from Web Page: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyccazen/Cemeteries/Peripheral/DelphiFallsCem.html Delphi Falls Cemetery, Hamlet of Delphi Falls, Town of Pompey, Onondaga County, New York, 1803 - 1933Carpenter, Abigail A. Babcock, wife of Major Carpenter, Field check by Daniel H. Weiskotten, October 14 & 15, 1994 born 1824, (death date not given), age not given). posted 7/19/1999. Carpenters listed are: Carpenter, Jennie L. Porter, wife of Austin B. Carpenter, died September 6, 1884, age 24 years. In the 1860 census Nathaniel was in the home of Carpenter, Gilbert J., died September 27, 1849, age 32 years 4 months 6 days. Carpenter, Lucy, wife of Nathaniel Carpenter, died January 20, 1860, age 79 years. Major Carpenter b. abt. 1823 Oswego Co., NY; m. Abigail____ b. abt. Carpenter, Major, born 1822, died 1895, (age not given). Carpenter, Nathaniel, died December 6, 1863, age 86 years. 1824 Erie Co., NY !Children listed: 1. Jerome b. abt. 1848 Onondaga Co., NY; m. Inez Sally Brown 2. Gilbert b. abt. 1853 Onondaga Co., NY; d. 1924, buried Fayetteville, 3. Abigail b. abt. 1859 OnondagaCo., NY I believe these families to be related but have no proof. There are also several other Carpenter's I have found in the area but am unsure how they relate, if at all. Sharon Goff Garrett. Nathaniel married (1-MRIN:17716) Lucy GAGE-49973, daughter of Elisha GAGE-49974 and Olive UNDERWOOD-49975 (MRIN:17717) in Onondaga, NY. Lucy was born 21 Nov 1780 in Woodstock Twp., Windham, CT. She died about 20 Jan 1860 in Onondaga, NY. !DEATH: CONFLICTING DEATH DATE! Lucy Gage b. 21 Nov 1780 Woodstock Twp, Windhan, CT; d. 7 Sep 1874*** NY d/o Elisha Gage b. 1753; d. 31 May 1833 and Olive Underwood b. 1756, d. 13 Jul 1835. ***Conflict*** Death date for Lucy listed as 20 Jan 1860, age 79 years on cemetery data below. Carpenter, Lucy, wife of Nathaniel Carpenter, died January 20, 1860, age 79. Nathaniel and Lucy had the following children: 5 M i. Gilbert J. CARPENTER-33416 was born about 21 May 1817 in Oswego, NY. He died 27 Sep 1849 and was buried about 27 Sep 1849 in Baptist Cem., Delphi Falls, Onondaga, NY. !Tombstone indicates he died age 32 years, 4 months and 6 days. This works out to be about: + 6 M ii. Major CARPENTER-49976 was born 1822 and was buried 1895. 3. Hannah CARPENTER-17222 was born 1786 in Goshen, Orange, NY and was christened 1 Apr 1786 in Presbyterian, Church, Goshen, NY. The baptisim records come from Rutenber's "History of the Presbyterian Church, Goshen, NY" This family line submitted by John E. Proctor (brn 1933) of Stillwell KS 4/96 Hannah married (1-MRIN:6130) Noah ELLIS-17224 on 1807. Noah was born 1786 in NY. He died about 1840. !Noah Ellis was a cooper in Newburgh NY, and later in Goshen NY. He married Hannah Carpenter, (1807?). They had 5 children? Lydia, Samuel, Lewis, Susan, Harriet. Records taken from an entry in "Richard Ellis and his Descendants" by E.R. Ellis, which says, "Noah Ellis with his brothers John, James and Joseph were coopers living near Newburgh, NY and later in Goshen, NY" Noah and Hannah had the following children: 7 F i. Lydia ELLIS-17225 was born 1808 in Goshen, Orange, NY. 8 M ii. Samuel ELLIS-17226 was born 1810 in Goshen, Orange, NY. 9 M iii. Lewis ELLIS-17227 was born 1811 in Goshen, Orange, NY. 10 F iv. Susan ELLIS-17228 was born 1812 in Goshen, Orange, NY. 11 F v. Harriet ELLIS-17229 was born 1815 in Goshen, Orange, NY. Third Generation 6. Major CARPENTER-49976 was born 1822 in Oswego, NY. was buried 1895 in Baptist Cem., Delphi Falls, Onondaga, NY. NAME: First name Major or was it his rank? Major married (1-MRIN:17718) Abigail A. BABCOCK-49977. Abigail was born about 1824 in Erie, NY. was buried in Baptist Cem., Delphi Falls, Onondaga, NY. They had the following children: 12 M i. Jerome CARPENTER-49978 was born about 1848 in Onondaga, NY. Jerome married (1-MRIN:17719) Inez Sally BROWN-49981. Inez was born about 1848 in NY. 13 M ii. Gilbert CARPENTER-49979 was born about 1853 in Onondaga, NY. He died 1924 and was buried in Fayetteville, NY. 14 F iii. Abigail CARPENTER-49980 was born about 1859 in Onondaga, NY. 15 M iv. Austin B. CARPENTER-33414 was born about 1860/1864 in Onondaga, NY. Austin married (1-MRIN:18201) Jennie L. PORTER-51154. Jennie was born 1864 in of, Onondaga, NY. She died 6 Sep 1884. Index Name ID Generation BABCOCK, Abigail A. 6S 3 BROWN, Inez Sally 12S 4 CARPENTER, Abigail 14 4 CARPENTER, Austin B. 15 4 CARPENTER, Benjamin 1 1 CARPENTER, Gilbert 13 4 CARPENTER, Gilbert J. 5 3 CARPENTER, Hannah 3 2 CARPENTER, Jerome 12 4 CARPENTER, Major 6 3 CARPENTER, Nathaniel 2 2 CARPENTER, Samuel 4 2 CHANDLER, Lydia 1S 1 ELLIS, Harriet 11 3 ELLIS, Lewis 9 3 ELLIS, Lydia 7 3 ELLIS, Noah 3S 2 ELLIS, Samuel 8 3 ELLIS, Susan 10 3 GAGE, Lucy 2S 2 PORTER, Jennie L. 15S 4

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The following record from REGISTRUM UNIVERSITAS OXON exists for a John Carpenter, perhaps the grand nephew of the Town Clerk John and son of John Carpenter b. 1410. "Carpenter, John, sup. for B.A. 28 Jan.1451/2, inc. as M.A. 4 Dec. 1455." At the same time a Robert is listed. "Carpenter, Robert, adm.B.Can.L. 28 Feb. 1449/50-of All Souls, Anstey 599,618." BC

One more Carpenter found living in the Fleetstreet area, with all the others in the 1300s. The exact area is Holebourne just above Fleetstreet itself. This William must be the William Carpenter, designated alternately as a spicer and a pepperer. William was a wealthy merchant who financed the crown and is thought to be the father of Rodger Carpenter discussed previously. This general area of London must have a overall designation, though I have yet to discover it. So many Carpenters have been found to live there from the late 1200s to 1400, in documents that are ungenerous in specifics, that the conclusion must be that all the London Carpenters lived in the area, which was a kind of Carpenter village. This is from CALENDAR OF LETTER-BOOKS, Letter-Book B, p. 169. The document shows that William was under obligation to pay a debt. It by no means shows that William was impoverished. “Saturday the eve of Palm Sunday [27 March], 34 Edward I. [a.d. 1306}, came William le Charpenter de Holebourne and William le Barber de Cordwanerstrete before John le Blound, Mayor, John de Wengrave, and Richard Poterel, the Chamberlain, and acknowledged themselves jointly and severally indebted to John de Wyndessore de Phelippeslane in the sum of 10s.; to be paid at the Feast of Pentecost, and unless, &c.” Bruce Carpenter

http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyccazen/Cemeteries/Peripheral/DelphiFallsCem.html Looking for my Moses Carpenter, not here, but some other Carpenters are. Phoebe

Hi Does anyone know of a Filena (Philena) Carpenter born ca 1765 (prob in CT) who married Eleazer Grover (1760-1859 IN). One known child Samuel married Mary Wooden; they lived in New Carlisle, IN. Any help appreciated. Julie Dresser Julie JRDresser@aol.com ============================================================ "Dwell on the past, and you'll lose an eye. Ignore the past, and you'll lose both of them." Old Russian Proverb "What the Son wishes to forget, the Grandson wishes to remember." Marcus Lee Hansen

Dear Bruce, I have two John Carpenters who married a Joan in that time period. They are included in the data I sent you. Cheers! John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:15205 - ---------------------------------------------------- Name:John CARPENTER Jr. Sex:M ID No: Birth:Abt 1485 Place:of,Hertfordshire,England Chr: Place: Marr:Abt 1508 Spouse:Joan DERICKSON-19792 Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death: Place: Burial: Place: Father:John of London CARPENTER-2639 Mother: Notes ------------------------------------------------ none INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:93 - ------------------------------------------------------- Name:John CARPENTER Sex:M ID No:8LBZ-ZJ Birth:Abt 1495 Place:of,Wrington,Somerset,England Chr: Place:Austerfield,Yorkshire,England Marr: Spouse:Abigail-696 Marr:Bef 1520 Spouse:Joan-19788 Marr: Spouse: Death:Abt 1540 Place:Austerfield,Yorkshire,England Burial: Place:of,Hereford,England Father:James CARPENTER-92 Mother:(CARPENTER)-698 Notes ---------------------------------------------- !Per Samuel Carpenter book. See page 1252 & 1318. See also LDS records. He married at least two times. !FOUNDER: John Carpenter (of James of William of Homme) is concidered to be a founder of the lines that produced: - Alice (of Alexander of William) who married a Southworth then a Gov. Bradford of Plymouth Colony. - William of Cobham (of William of Alexander of William) who was granted a Coat of Arms in 1663. - Warncomb Carpenter (of Thomas of James of James of William of this John) whose youngest son, George became page to the Earl of Montague, and on account of faithful service rendered to the Crown was created "Baron Carpenter of Killaghy" in 1719. - Elizabeth who married William Carpenter of Marden who was the great grandfather of Captain William Carpenter who founded the Rehoboth, MA Branch of the Carpenter Family AND William Carpenter of Amesbury who founded the Providence (Pawtuxet), RI Branch of the Carpenter Family. end Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > John > Do you have any details about John b. 1485. > He is said to have married Joan. > BC

In 1348 the Black Plague was on the English coast. Three months later the horror was in London, where estimates have it that between a third to a half of all souls in the city perished. Previously I published the account of a Thomas Carpenter, son of a wealthy merchant Rodger Carpenter, was put under the care of city officials in 1349. We can assume Roger’s demise was plague related. Thomas was put under the care of the powerful, because such was the custom of England, to protect the property and asset rights of the young. Was Richard Carpenter a plague orphan? In this sad document King Edward III takes responsibility for a Richard Carpenter at the height of the plague. Richard must have had family means to warrant such consideration from the King himself. From CLOSE ROLLS, Edward III, 1349. “Richard Carpenter sent to the prior and convent of Caresbrok to receive such maintenance in that house for life as John de Modesprot, deceased, had there at the King’s request.” Sincerely, Bruce E. Carpenter

> Every once in a while I like to send up a flare, just in case it catches the eye of someone who missed it before (or who wasn't here before): > > 1. Searching for Samuel Carpenter & wife Clarissa, born c.1780-85 in Orange County NY and possibly moved to PA in early 1800s. > 2. Searching for descendants of Joseph Reeves Carpenter (1861-1905) and Manette (Lansing Nichols) Carpenter, born PA but moved to Grand Rapids MI in 1882. His widow lived in Grand Rapids as late as 1917. She may well have moved back to PA. Children; Manette (Carpenter) Jewell (1894- ?), Mary Elizabeth Carpenter (1896- ?), and Joseph Griswold Carpenter (1899 - ?) > 3. As ever, seeking info w/r parentage of Carman Carpenter c.1750-1811 in Orange County NY. > Robin >

Dear Betty and Donna, I believe one word (for) is left out of that section of the will. See below. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA --I give to my wife the other half of the land I now live upon, for her life time, and the use of my household stuff, carts and plows, if she marry not. But if she marry, she shall have a third part in my land and Samuel, the rest; and she shall have four oxen, one mare, which is called the black mare, four cows, one bed and its furniture, one pot, one good kettle and one little, and one skillet, and half of the pewter for her lifetime, and then to give it up to the children; and if she does not marry, to have the rest of my land at Pawtuxet, which remaineth, that which is left which is not given to my daughter, Hannah, and that which is left Abiah to have after my wife's decease; if she marry, to have it the next year after. Liztho77@aol.com wrote: > > In posting by John Carpenter, a copy of the posting by you of the Will of > William Carpenter. I believe there is an error in the copying. > > In re section "I give to my wife - - - one skillet, and half of the pewter- - > - -" then says > "her lifetime" > > There must be a part of that sentence missing. Do you have that? The > sentence does not make sense as written. > > I descend from William Carpenter and am pleased to add this information to my > records. > > Sincerely, > Betty Thomas > San Jose, CA

By way of preface and explanation to the interesting subject matter of this letter, let me first attempt a characterization of the Flemish Carpentier family group of the 12th and 13th centuries. They were the descendants of knights, according to their historian Jean le Carpentier, writing in the 17ty century. In later years their descendants had acquired land, and no doubt country estates to go with their new titles, like Sire de Daniel and Sire de Vannes. They were in a word, gentry. The Flemish and French knights of the early Middle Ages became minor lords with land in the later. Unfortunately this whole class of people had by the late 1200s grown poorer. Warlop in his THE FLEMISH NOBILITY BEFORE 1300, narrates their conditions. “In the evolution of the economic situation of the Flemish nobility in the second half of the twelfth and in the thirteenth century, a constant can be observed: a chronic lack of money.” (p. 298) “To get money they finally had to sell their rights and immovables to persons who disposed of cash: rich burghers and ecclesiastical institutions.” (p. 298) “Even worse was the case of Hellin III of Wavrin, steward of Flanders. He had not only sold his function to to Count Guy before 1283 but had so many debts that he married off one of his daughters to a rich burgher of Douai in the hope that the latter would help.” (p. 296) For the Carpentiers not far from the city of Douai, their solution was a simple one, they became the burghers. They became the controllers and administrators of the cloth trade itself, the industry that controlled the trading cities of Flanders in the late Middle Ages. The names of Carpentier weavers and drapers in the Flemish cities have come down to us, but the most interesting are those Carpentiers who administrated the trade and therefore the towns. They had seemingly built up their own wealth to the point where they now took up public office. They served under the most illustrious burgher and cloth merchant of the day, Jean Boine Broke (much has been writt en about this key player in the events of his day). It was exactly like a hundred years later, in England, with mercers Mayor Dick Whittington and Town Clerk John Carpenter. Many of their names survive in Flemish legal dispositions (in Recueil De Ducuments Relatifs L”Histoire DeL’Industrie Drapierre En Flandre, Bruxelles, 1909) like Potins Li Carpentiers, Pieres Li Carpentiers and Maroie Li Carpentiere. In the city of Ypres a Lippin le Carpentier would be listed in a letter to the King of France as one of the cloth merchant administrators of the city. At this time in Flanders one of the seminal events in western history took place, the Battle of the Golden Spurs, in which the members of the craft guilds (and principally the cloth makers) formed an army and defeated the French army, guaranteeing their own independence. It was this event that resulted in the cloth maker’s control of the Flemish cities. In a real sense all of this was a true milestone in the development of independent free enterprise and democracy. The Carpenters were in 1600s Massachusetts and the Carpenters participated in the creation of the free trading cities of Northern Europe. As C.A. Carpenter often says, the Carpenters are always independent and individualistic. Bruce Carpenter

John in LaMesa informs that another Thomas lived in Sussex. The following from Patent Rolls might add data. Thomas has ties to Gloucestershire and is an official of the realm for Sussex. He has land, power and money. “Keeper of the peace for Sussex Thomas Carpenter” (Patent 1554) “Grant in fee, in consideration of 513 L. 2s paid to the queen’s councillor, Edward Peckham knight, to her use, to Thomas Carpenter and William Savage, gentlemen, of the lordship and manor of Stowe co. Gloucester…… also rights to manor of Bounhill in Gloucester”. (Patent, May 26, 1554) “Liscense for 3L. 6s. 10d. in the hanaper to John Waters and Thomas Carpenter to grant their manor of Byburge co. Glouster”. (Patent, 1554) “Thomas Carpenter and William Savage, gentlemen, to grant the site and capital messuage of the monestary of Lantheram co. Monmouth”. (Patent, May 28, 1554) This line of Carpenters is clearly doing very well. His prosperity would be in keeping with his closer proximity to the main line of Carpenters and their money. The other Carpenters, like the Marden Carpenters, would be better described as “Churchmouse Carpenters”. Sincerely, Bruce Carpenter

Dear Bruce, There was several Thomas Carpenters in that time period. Here is the data on the Uncle Thomas. The Uncle of Robert of Marden whose father was William Carpenter of Marden brother to Thomas. The birth date while estimated may be about 7 years off. This window of birth about 1523 maybe as early as 1516. If he held property in Marden in 1534 he would have had to have been at least 21. 1534 - 21 = 1513. This is close but may reveal that the land belonged to another Thomas Carpenter the grand uncle of Robert of Marden. See data below. The father of Rev. Richard Carpenter is William of Homme (b. 1140). Sincerely, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA +---¦Richard CARPENTER Rev.-2781 Robert CARPENTER-14706 ¦ ¦ 1465/1470 Abt 1495 --------------¦ ¦Homme,Hertfordshire,England Upton Scudamore,Wiltshire,England | MRIN:5243 --SPOUSE-- MRIN:5242 Elizabeth-19787 Abt 1500 of,Wiltshire,England --CHILDREN-- 1William CARPENTER of Marden-14711 2Thomas CARPENTER Rev.-14700 <-----Uncle Thomas 3John CARPENTER-14703 4-Ambrose CARPENTER-14699 5-Christopher CARPENTER-14702 6Agnes CARPENTER-14694 7Alice CARPENTER-14701 8-Elizabeth CARPENTER-22717 INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:14700 - ---------------------------------------------------- Name:Thomas CARPENTER Rev. Sex:M ID No: Birth:Abt 1523 Place:of,Wiltshire,England Chr: Place: Marr: Spouse:Unknown Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death: Place: Burial: 1547 Place:Cathedral of,Sarum,Salisbury,England Father:Robert CARPENTER-14706 Mother:Elizabeth-19787 Notes ----------------------------------------------- !NOTE: SEE NOTE BELOW REGARDING POSSIBLE ERRORS IN DESCENDANCY LINE. !This Thomas and other grandchildren listed claim lineage from Rev. Richard Carpenter. No proof given though at the College of Arms. This Thomas is believed to have had a family in Cornwall. Will referenced but not found yet. See below. NOTE: CONFLICTING DESCENDANCY: SEE BELOW! !SEE: Also: (WN & Q) Wiltshire Notes and Queries, Pages 256-258 and 293 which lists The Wilshire Wills proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (1383-1558): "1503 Carpenter, Rychard, D.C.L. and priest, Remmesbury (= Ramsbury, Wilts.) (Wilts?) Mixbury, Oxford. (Oxfordshire) 25 Blamyr." "1524 Carpenter, als. Morecock, Roger, Hornyngesham, Wilts. F.31 Bodfelde." "1547 Carpenter, sir Thomas, priste, Cathedral of Sarum. F. 10 Allen." The 1547 year note probably references this Thomas, who was buried in the graveyard of the Cathedral of Sarum, now Old Sarum in Salisbury. The 1503 year note refers to his Grandfather. !NOTE: This entire Cornwall descendancy line has major errors in it. There are many inconsistancies. Many, many temporary connections and many conflicting marriage information. I considered NOT including this section, but decided that some future Carpenter researcher could use this data in some manner. jrc 5/98. end notes. +---¦William CARPENTER WoH-91 William CARPENTER 2nd-2641 ¦ ¦Abt 1440 Abt 1464 --------------¦ ¦Homme,Hertfordshire,England Homme,Hertfordshire,England ¦ MRIN:210 --SPOUSE-- MRIN:6246 +---¦(CARPENTER)-700 Agnes-19797 ¦Abt 1444 Abt 1464 |of,Homme,Hertfordshire,England of Godalming,Surrey,England (There are other marriages) --CHILDREN-- 1William CARPENTER 3rd-15201 2Thomas CARPENTER-25523 <-------Grand Uncle 3-Bridget CARPENTER-19799 4-Agnes CARPENTER-19798 INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:25523 - ------------------------------------------------------- Name:Thomas CARPENTER Sex:M ID No: Birth:Abt 1493 Place:Wratlyng,Sussex,England Chr:16 Jul 1530 Place:Uckfield,Sussex,England Marr: Spouse:Unknown Marr: Spouse: Marr: Spouse: Death: Place: Burial:17 Nov 1581 Place:St.Mary's Church,Horsham,Sussex,England Father:William CARPENTER 2nd-2641 Mother:Agnes-19797 Notes --------------------------------------------------- !SEE: Sussex Church/Parish Records: 1522-1606. There were two Thomas Carpenters recorded that might be this Thomas. Thomas Carpenter of Wratlying, Sussex born about 1493 & Thomas Carpenter who was Chr as an adult in Uckfield, Sussex on 16 July 1530. In most records this Carpenter Studies this person seems to be combined with his son. end notes. Bruce E. Carpenter wrote: > > Uncle Thomas? Robert of Marden Carpenter had an Uncle Thomas, whose birth > date is unknown. His father’s birth date is estimated at 1494. Consider the > following. A HISTORY OF WILTSHIRE quotes local historical sources that a > Thomas Carpenter held property and land in Marden in 1534. > > “In 1534 the prior of Bradenstoke let the rectory (Marden rectory) to Thomas > Carpenter at L.8 yearly, a rental which remained constant throughout the > 16th century and earlier 17th centuries.” (P.121) > > Rectory here refers to a “benefice” or income from the church land. In other > words Thomas was probably the vicar of the parish who supported himself from > the tithes and incomes of the land. The prior of Bradenstoke held title to > the land and Thomas had to pay and basically support to his ecclesiastical > landlord. This is all just before the Reformation and the nationalization of > all church land in England. We can now see a history of Carpenter presence > in Marden. If Thomas was vicar, he must then have had a university > connection. Certainly while Thomas was in Marden (a Nicholas Hobbs is vicar > in 1544) he could have acquired land that was subsequently passed down in > the family. > > Bruce Carpenter

Dear Betty, You are probably right. I got the will data from Donna Tivener. She is at: dtivener@richnet.net If you get a corrected copy, please pass it on to the forum. The information regarding the Bennington Museum by your cousin from Hoosick, NY (SEE BELOW) may help researchers who are related to that line. Can you supply a basic descendancy chart for the forum? It is always nice to know the hard work of Carpenter Genealogists don't wind up in hidden spots. I encourage everyone to share data and sources. Also to donate to their local Genealogical or Family History Libraries. It helps everyone! Take care! John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Liztho77@aol.com wrote: > > I am fascinated by the will of William Carpenter, of Rehoboth. I am a > descendent of that William Carpenter. > > In reading the Will you have just posted I think there is a deletion in the > part about the items he is giving his wife. It says . . . .and one skillet, > and half of the pewter- - - > then it goes to "her lifetime, and then to give it up to the children." > There must be something between pewter and lifetime. > > There is quite a collection of family information, bibles, wills, receipts > and much more that has been donated to the Bennington Museum by Rachel > Wilkins Baker > Cottrell, my cousin, who was a genealogist and last resident member of that > Carpenter family of Hoosick, New York. > > Betty Thomas > San Jose, CA

Has anyone come across our ancestors? I am up aginst that ole brick wall. Can't seem to find anything further on our CARPENTER, ROGERs and CELLIS ancestors. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Descendants of Samuel Carpenter Generation No. 1 1. Samuel CARPENTER was born February 11, 1787 in Ira , Rutland, VT, and died February 22, 1864 in Berlin , St.Clair, Michigan. He married (1) Cynthia. She was born 1801 in Vermont, and died April 8, 1861 in Berlin, MI. He married (2) Roxlana NEWTON Abt. 1806 in Ira, VT, daughter of Jayson NEWTON and Lydia COLLINS. She was born August 14, 1786 in Ira, VT, and died December 11, 1824 in Ira, VT. Children of Samuel CARPENTER and Cynthia are: i. Maria CARPENTER, b. November 4, 1827, Ira, VT. ii. John E CARPENTER, b. October 29, 1829, Ira , Rutland, VT. iii. Cynthia CARPENTER b. November 12, 1831, Ira, Rutland, VT. iv. Cyrus CARPENTER, b. October 16, 1836, Ira , Rutland, VT. Children of SamuelCARPENTER and RoxlanaNEWTON are: v. Joseph CARPENTER, b. April 3, 1807, Ira, VT; d. Armada, MI. vi. Eunice Newton CARPENTER, b. August 14, 1809, Ira, VT; d. Armada, MI; m. Oratus HALLETT; b. 1805. vii. Newton CARPENTER, b. April 15, 1811, Ira, VT. 2. viii. Roxalanna CARPENTER, b. May 16, 1812, Duxbery Twp. , Washington Co., Vermont; d. March 10, 1895, Novesta Twp ,, MI. ix. Samuel James CARPENTER, b. April 8, 1814, Ira, VT; d. January 25, 1888, Oregon, MI. 3. x. James M Carpenter, b. June 22, 1816, Ira , Rutland, VT; d. November 5, 1869, Lake Michigan off Manistee, MI. 4. xi. Daniel CARPENTER, b. May 3, 1818, Ira, VT; d. Allegan, MI. 5. xii. Jason CARPENTER, (our ancestor) b. May 28, 1820, Township of Ira, Rutland Co., Vermont near the foot of the Green Mountains; d. Oreno, MI. xiii. Susan CARPENTER, b. 1822, Ira, VT. 5. Jason CARPENTER was born May 28, 1820 in Township of Ira, Rutland Co., Vermont near the foot of the Green Mountains, and died in Oreno, MI. He married Laurissa A LOOMIS May 20, 1850 in Oceana Co., Mich, daughter of Andrew LOOMIS and Laura CLARK. She was born March 25, 1825 in Independence, Alleghany Co., NY, and died 1917. Children of Jason CARPENTER and Laurissa LOOMIS are: 10. i. Henry WarrenCARPENTER, b. 1850 - 1870; d. 1930. (our ancestor) ii. Leon CARPENTER, b. 1850 - 1870. iii. Alice CARPENTER, b. 1850 - 1870; m. // PITTENGER. iv. Pauline CARPENTER, b. 1850 - 1870. v. Eunice CARPENTER, m. George EDDY. Generation No. 3 10. Henry Warren CARPENTER. He married (1) Mame //. He married (2) Hattie CELLIS. She died 1890. Children of Henry CARPENTER and Mame are: i. Henry CARPENTER 14. ii. Otto CARPENTER. Children of Henry CARPENTER and Hattie CELLIS are: iii. Alice CARPENTER. 15. iv. Jason Merton CARPENTER, b. October 14, 1886; d. April 8, 1935. (our ancestor) v. Hazel Carpenter, b. May 1890; d. November 26, 1890. 15. Jason Merton CARPENTER was born October 14, 1886, and died April 8,. He married Agnes Mary ROGERS December 7, 1911, daughter of William ROGERS and Caroline EAKLAY(?). She was born April 24, 1892, and died December 24, 1970 in Trout Lake, Chippewa Co, MI. :) Anita ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Anita (nee: Merlo) Gauld Anita_Gauld@Hotmail.Com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Have over 30,000 individuals in my database. Willing to do quick look-ups. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tracing surnames: Bellisario..Berardo..Blake..Bonner.. Carpenter..Chromie..Cook..Cucco..Cunningham..Dey..Eovaldi.. Galick..Gauld..Gianella..Gilmore..Gnoli..Kramy..Laman..Loomis.. Malysiak..Marek..Marlow..Merlo..Mitrovich..Monelli..Newton.. Ottolini..Overman..Pisoni..Puricelli..Small..Travato..Wright ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Family Page: http://www.GeoCities.Com/Heartland/Bluffs/1314 Reunion Page: http://www.GeoCities.Com/Heartland/Village/1315 Family Tree Maker Descendant Trees: http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/g/a/u/Anita-L-Gauld/index.html Sunshine and Shadows memoirs by Evangeline (Cook) Wright at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Shores/4343/ Surnames: http://www.mccserv.com/genealogy/gauld/gauld.html VITAL RECORDS Fife Lake and surrounding areas (1906-1948): http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/1315/vitals.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUERIES: View: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/1314/geobook.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ E-Mail: Anita_Gauld@Hotmail.Com agauld@mhc.net (Munson Medical Center)Work agauld@gtii.com (please send attachments here) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Contact me by web pager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/23187866 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You can respond to this e-mail online. If you have ICQ my ICQ# is 23187866 You can download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sharing is contagious. Unless you tell me otherwise, sharing with me is assumed as permission to share with others. Much of the data I share is data others have shared with me and unverified by me personally. *grin* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As long as we are Remembered we Never die A life is not lost when it is known to future generations ----- Original Message ----- From: <DCarp3931@aol.com> To: <CARPENTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 11:14 PM Subject: Mich. Carpenter's > Greetings, > Can anyone shed light on the following Michigan Carpenter's.... > Harry A. Carpenter b 3-21-1831 NY, married 10-8-1853 at Paw Paw, MI. to > Lucinda > Crawford b 10-12-1837 Van Buren Co, MI. They moved from MI. to MN. to IA. & > back to MI. several times before finally settling in IA. permanently. I'm > also looking > for info on their son William Franklin Carpenter b 1856-57 Allamakee, IA.d > 5-5-1893 Puyallup, WA. Any help will be greatly appreciated. > Linda Carpenter > dcarp3931@aol.com > >

Dear John L., This sounds like the Nicholas Carpenter and his brother who were "pressed" or involuntarily joined the British Navy in 1812. The brother died and he later was discharged sometime after the War of 1812. That Nicholas was born about Jun 1793 in VT or abt 1798 in York county, ME I believe. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA John L. Carpenter wrote: > > ----- > > > > >-Jerry I have a Nicholas Carpenter born 30 Jan 1794 In Marsellis France. " > >Nothing is known of parents , but it it is probable that his father was > >English or of English stock. The name has been spelled in its present form, > >as far as known, which would indicate that it is not of French origin. > >At a early age Nicholas Carpenter was placed with a brother in the bakery > >on a man-of-war, to learn the trade. The brother was drowned, and Nicholas > >left the ship on its arrival in the harbor of Quebec making his way at once > >into the rural district on the southern border of the Province of Queebec. > >He later was employed by farmers in Stanstead, and later in Derby, VT,and > >continued in that occupation all his active life. For a period of > twenty-two > >years he had charge of the large farms of Hon. Pontus Baxter > > He later purchased land and became a large landholder in Troy and > >Westmore,Vt. He lived in the later town 5 January 1878 near near the close > >of his 84 th year, His family was Hannah Libby > >daughter of Joshua & Hannah rant Libbey, was of English decent. She died at > >the age of 91 yrs. They had 9 sons & 9 daughters. I will load later in FTW > and if any interested will fwd > >

The nephew of John Town Clerk of London is thought to continue the Carpenter on to William of Homme Carpenter. I have searched for a clue to John Jr., as he is referred to. The John that I wish to introduce here is in political trouble in 1468. At this time King Edward IV is taking revenge on all Lancaster supporters. John is said to have been a resident of Wenlond, which is explained as Welland in co. Worcester. There is a conspicuous lack of Carpenters in London in the later 1400s, which is no surprise given the political climate. John Sr. was previously seen as under political persecution. This John Carpenter, and hopefully his son, is described as a ‘husbandsman’ and could refer to either rich or poor. The suspicion here is on the side of rich given his ‘gentleman’ companion. Kings rarely bother with the humble and poor. The document does narrow the residence of John Carpenter to Worcester of Hereford, itself an interesting fact, given the fact William of Homme is said to have been born locally. Abbreviated from 1468 PATENT ROLLS, June 15, Membrane 15d. “Commission to Richard Beauchamp, Thomas Stafford…….the sherriffs of Worcester and Hereford…….to arrest Rodger Cowley of Colwell (in Hereford), ‘gentilman’, John Carpenter late of Wenlond, ‘husbandman’………bring them before the king in Chancery.” Sincerely, Bruce Carpenter

I saw this on another site that it might be helpful. Debbie 1st son - after the father's father 2nd son-after the mother's father 1st daug.-for the mother's mother 2nd daug -for the father's mother 3rd son - after father 3rd daug -after mother 4th son -for the father's eldest brother 4th daug - for the mother's eldest sister

John Carpenter in LaMesa CA sent me the important data re. Marden Robert Carpenter's William, who it turns out was likewise a Marden resident. This makes my contribution less than earth- shaking. However, John's data underlines the possibility that Marden Thomas Carpenter was Williams brother and Robert's uncle, and thus increasing the credibility of the data prior and after the individuals in question. The links in this data always seemed weak to me. However now I am beginning to see for myself there is truly much to it. BC