Trying to find the connection to my ggrandfather's NY Carpenters. Charles Carpenter (11/15-18/1830-11/20/1888) born & died in NY, and is buried in the East Randolph Cemetary old section. He married Harriet "Hattie" Palmer (1840-?). They lived in Napoli, Cattaraugus Co. in 1880. The 1880 census indicates that both Charles' parents were born in NY also. I have looked at Frederick Carpenter's children, but his son Charles died in 1860. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have John Carpenter's CD's, I just can't find the connection. Joyce Carpenter Sharpley [email protected] --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year

Hi: Please let anyone you think might be interested know that the CD > "Scans of Selected Carpenter and Related Family Historical Papers and > Journals as Published by James Ausie Carpenter" is now available. > Details are available at > http://www.gbronline.com/adcarpenter/crfhcd/default.htm The Price is $25.00 (U.S.) including shipping, anywhere in the lower forty-eight by USPS, and handling. Please pay by check or money order. Please allow ten days for delivery. Also, please include your E-mail address with your order. You may contact me at 512 248 9954 or E-mail me : [email protected] Order From: Attn: CD Order Alton Carpenter 3703 Laurel Bay Loop Round Rock, TX 78681-1123 > Best regards, Alton Carpenter

Bruce wrote: > The DNA study as it expands into England will shed light on all of > this. Beware of complacency. The DNA study will need a lot of help to expand into England. As far as I know, only one Carpenter outside the USA has joined so far. If you are personally acquainted with male Carpenters in England, please let them know about the study. One of the problems faced by nearly all genealogical DNA studies is the fact that people in England tend to feel that they "know" their roots already, or else don't care. John Chandler

Bruce wrote: > This I take to mean that the individuals who kindly provided their DNA > samples claimed to be descendants of one of the two Williams, but did not > provide real proof of it. It's a little more complicated than that. For one thing, there is also Group 1, which claims descent from William of Rehoboth, but doesn't match either 2 or 3. Everybody has "proof" at some level, but they can't all be right. The members of Group 1 seem to be willing to reconsider their evidence in light of the DNA mismatch, but most of the others have not been put through the wringer yet. As more participants join up, we will benefit from the other side of the coin: surely, they can't all be wrong! The more branches are tested and found to match, the more secure the tentative conclusion will be. Note: all male Carpenters, especially those with lines traced back to the 17th century, are encouraged to join. In case anybody has lost the URL for the project, here it is: http://members.cox.net/johnrcarpenter/index.htm John Chandler

Jan: It is all about how the two Williams were related. Some had felt the two Williams were not related at all, or for that matter, Carpenters in the South of England were of distict families who shared a common occupational surname. The DNA study as it expands into England will shed light on all of this. BC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Robison" <[email protected]> To: "Bruce E Carpenter" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] DNA question 3 > Bruce, > > What about us folks who descended from BOTH of them??? I have two distinct > lines... > > Jan (unfortunately, female in this case!) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce E Carpenter" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:28 PM > Subject: [CARPENTER] DNA question 3 > > > > "Before we can make anything out of it, we need to go > > one step further and assume something that isn't yet proven: it seems > > likely, or at least plausible, that Group 2 is descended from William > > of Providence and Group 3 from William of Rehoboth." > > > > This I take to mean that the individuals who kindly provided their DNA > > samples claimed to be descendants of one of the two Williams, but did not > > provide real proof of it. > > Is this correct? > > > > Bruce Carpenter > > Nara, Japan > > >

"Before we can make anything out of it, we need to go one step further and assume something that isn't yet proven: it seems likely, or at least plausible, that Group 2 is descended from William of Providence and Group 3 from William of Rehoboth." This I take to mean that the individuals who kindly provided their DNA samples claimed to be descendants of one of the two Williams, but did not provide real proof of it. Is this correct? Bruce Carpenter Nara, Japan

Bruce wrote: > I have an additional question, re. the last line of digits for group 2 and > group 3. They are consistantly 16s for group 2 and 17s for group 3 while all > other lines of digits are more or less the same. What does this at least > suggest? Thanks to John Chandler for his patience. I guess you mean the last *column*, rather than the last *line*. If you read the discussion of Groups 2 and 3, you'll see that the whole distinction between these two groups is that last column. However, it is always possible for mutations to crop up, and so this distinction is a bit shaky. Before we can make anything out of it, we need to go one step further and assume something that isn't yet proven: it seems likely, or at least plausible, that Group 2 is descended from William of Providence and Group 3 from William of Rehoboth. If this is true, then we would be justified in assuming the two Williams were "closely" related. How closely? Well, the best estimate of the time of their most recent common ancestor would be about 200 years before, but the likely range of times would extend from about 50 to about 500 years before. Times outside that range are also possible, so you can see the prediction is very fuzzy. Of course, if the tentative links between the two groups and the two Williams break down, then all bets are off. John Chandler

I have an additional question, re. the last line of digits for group 2 and group 3. They are consistantly 16s for group 2 and 17s for group 3 while all other lines of digits are more or less the same. What does this at least suggest? Thanks to John Chandler for his patience. Bruce Carpenter Nara, Japan

Anyone have any info on John Carpenter b.1805+/- and his wife Mary b.1803+/-. They lived in Franklinton in Schoharie County, NY. Moved there in 1830s but don't show up after 1865 even though their sons are still there. I assume they both died but haven't found their graves yet. Thanks for any help. Jim

Hi group, I found some connections on a website and want to make sure I have it right if anyone can confirm or not: Edith Bunce 1762-1808, sister of Mathew Bunce. Both were children of Lemuel Bunce and Eva Sheafe. George Washington Bunce's brother, William Coultard Bunce 1816-1894. William Coultard Bunce had son, William T. Bunce. William T. Bunce had twin girls and son Elsworth. Elsworth was named for William Coultard Bunces' wife, Mary Rachel Carpenter's mother Mary Elsworth. Any information appreciated! These Bunces moved west to Milwaukee area but Elsworth went to college in NH. I'm not sure where he settled.

On 5/11/04 2:00 PM, "Bruce E Carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote: > I was looking at other DNA returns like the following > http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/3/8/192734/1631 and > wondered about the Carpenter report of Scandinavian- > Northern German ancestry. Could the Carpenter data > point to Frankish ancestry? > BC > Nara, Japan Reading through that site reveals what looks like to me a lot of out and out jibberish. No genealogical DNA project needs this kind of endorsement in my opinion. Rick

I was looking at other DNA returns like the following http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/3/8/192734/1631 and wondered about the Carpenter report of Scandinavian-Northern German ancestry. Could the Carpenter data point to Frankish ancestry? BC Nara, Japan

Bruce wrote: > Carpenter report of Scandinavian-Northern German ancestry. Could the > Carpenter data point to Frankish ancestry? If the data can be said to point to anything specific, it would be Viking ancestry. On the other hand, the data would certainly not rule out Frankish ancestry. John Chandler

MY ANCESTOR GRAND MOTHER I search for you yet do not even know your name I press on praying my efforts will prove fruitful the records do not list you or the other women who have lived and loved and laughed, gave birth, and died, the records perpetrate the myth that you were never here but I stand whole and bare my soul and vow to find you as I live I search for you in old records, in churches, at the Embassy, in small dimly lit rooms in the back of obscure libraries and archives and pour over barely readable handwritten ledgers with magnifying glass and flashlight I live on mainly toast these days there isn't time for meals or much sleep feeling as I always do, on the very brink of discovery Perhaps THIS will be the day I find the one seemingly insignificant clue, which will lead me to you although I did not find you listed in the Census Records I am not deterred, you may turn up yet, on an Immigration or Naturalization list somewhere perhaps, or maybe tucked away inside some bank of vital statistics, long forgotten like so many others, your name having become lost over the long years Your name could be lying even now amidst the millions of documents stored and locked away safeguarded in the bowels of a giant warehouse all stopped up from apathetic crowds who have long ceased their visits your precious name, lying just inside a myriad of records packed in tight, packed in to stay never guessing I would come @Sarah Elizabeth Rose [email protected]

In a message dated 5/9/04 18:00:24 Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: In 1860 Census of Woodford, Bennington ,VT there is a JOHN Carpenter 60 y/o male, with Olin Carpenter 58 y/o female ,Elijah Carpenter 30 y/o male, Draper Carpenter 16 y/o male, Jennette Carenter 2 other children 11 & 5 ? surname Lydia Draoper to young to be John Draper Carpenter formerly of Guilford VT John in NH

In 1860 Census of Woodford, Bennington ,VT there is a Draper Carpenter 60 y/o male, with Olin Carpenter 58 y/o female ,Elijah Carpenter 30 y/o male, Draper Carpenter 16 y/o male, Jennette Carenter 2 other children 11 & 5 ? surname Lydia Draoper to young to be John Draper Carpenter formerly of Guilford VT John in NH

Anybody familar with this Carpenter family William CARPENTER married Betsy BANNISTER in Gainesville, Wyoming County NY in 1811. They settled in Groveland, Livingston County NY soon after that. Their children were sons: Billezar, and Joseph. Daughters: Charity, Eliza, Mary, Hortense, and Elizabeth. Betsy (Bannister) CARPENTER was born May 20, 1791, and died 13 March, 1826 at Groveland, NY. In 1844 William Carpenter and all of his children and their families moved to Wheatland, Kenosha County Wisconsin. William died there 13 April 1859, Charity may also have died in Wisconsin. In 1870 Billezar CARPENTER and his wife Almira (?) returned to to live at Lakeville, Livingston County NY and were living there when he died in the mid-1880's. Joseph CARPENTER, Eliza (FELCH), Mary (CARMON), Hortense (BELDEN), and Elizabeth (BUSWELL) along with their spouses and children moved to Illinois for a short time, then to Brown County Kansas in abt. 1872. They are buried in the family lot at Wheatland Cemetery near Horton, Brown County Kansas.

Cousins, Tried to send this yesterday but it didn't post. For those of you who are also searching for the elusive Ensley/ Ansley, Ancil, E.A., etc Carpenter (b. abt 1820 TN): I recently noticed that the microfilm of the 1880 KY mortality schedules listed the name of the deceased person's doctor. Dr. Ancil Carpenter was listed in several cases in Whitley county. There was no listing of his son Jeremiah "Jerry" as a doctor at that time in Whitley county. Both E.A. & Jerry & their families are listed in ED 113 in Whitley county for 1880. Pat Hobson

Sorry I have no match either Carpenter , Alexander,or O'Grady names do you use the Carpenter roots List there is a Tony Carpenter who lives in UK does some english Carpenter research ? [email protected] have to join list to post no charge My web page will tell you how to join & E mail list I don't have much for english Carpenter info hard to prove hear in US > http://expage.com/page/carpenterlinks >

JOHN CARPENTER. Williamstown, Orange County, VT Served in Capt. Walker's Company, Col. Fifield's Regt. Detached Militia in U.S. service 6 months and 3 days, 1812. Served from June 11 1813 to June 14, 1813 in Capt. Hezekiah Barn's Company, 1st Regt. 2nd Brig. 3rd Div., Volunteered to go to Plattsburg, NY, September 1814, and served in capt. David Robinson's Company; went as far as Burlington, Vt." Source is "State of Vermont ROSTER of SOLDIERS in the WAR of 1812-14", prepared and published uder the direction of Herbert T. Johnson, The Adjutant General, 1933, page 90. <<John Carpenter on 1800 Dover census. John Carpenter from [email protected] (Jan J.)]