Hi Pauline This is all looking very exciting:-) Going by what you said below, I found the two brothers Philip and George on the 1861 Census. They were both working as servants for a farmers widow in Llanelli but have had no luck with John, Elizabeth or Lemuel which surprised me. I didn't even contemplate looking for Mary at least until my eye stop spinning! Can you explain please how would I go about requesting a look up in the Carmarthen Archives? Many thanks Ginette >If he was a labourer, this one could be good.......I looked at my >marriage index for John Phillip/s to any Elizabeth there are two >possibilities > >1824 23rd July Llanelly parish church >John Philip and Elizabeth Hugh > >1825 14th October Kidwelly parish church >John Phillips and Elizabeth Lloyd > >unless Elizabeth was his second wife as a big gap between ages of 24 >then down to 10 years old...... > >keep us posted - hope you find the correct birth certificate this time.... > >>>Kidwelly 1851 census dist 2b page 7 sch 29 >>>Lady Street >>>John Phillips head mar 48 labourer born Llanelly >>>Elizabeth Phillips wife marr 45 born Kidwelly >>>Mary Phillips dau un 24 born Kidwelly >>>Phillip Phillips son 10 born Kidwelly >>>George Phillips son 8 born Kidwelly >>>Lemuel Phillips son 6 born Kidwelly >>> >>>When you want a popular name and you know where he was born, go to >>>the local registry office they will ensure that you have the correct >>>certificate with correct father and occupation..... >>> >>>Kidwelly is under Llanelly registry office, but they do not have an >>>official email address yet so if you send to Carmarthen they will >>>find out for you >>> >>>Registrars@carmarthenshire.gov.uk -- Ginette Phillips