Hi Pauline Thank you very much, It has given me a lot to ponder on. It is most unfortunate that both the John ROBERTS married a Catherine MORGAN, I rather like the marriage in Llangefelach, I'll send for the marriage cert. I'll let you know how I get on John ROBERTS was a collier in Glamorgan, but as he migrated from Carmarthenshire he could have quite easily have been an Ag Lab. I have felt for some time that John did not move to Glamorgan alone, because in the Swansea area there are a number of Roberts families (as yet unconnected with mine, I have all his children and grandchildren accounted for), yet these families have very similar Christian names with an age group that could make them cousins, so I have been looking for a brother for John, but if he is illegitimate that closes that line. One other problem that has plagued me for some time is CONSTANT CELLAN, this is shown on a birth cert of 1855 (where born), I am aware of the CELLAN part, but where is Constant, Reg district : Lampeter, Sub district: Pencarreg, in the county of Cardigan and Carmarthen. I have looked on many maps, It doesn't look as though it is a village, so must be a dwelling (farm, institute, hospital ?) regards ken Stourbridge