Hi Pauline, I checked 1841 and all I could find was Benjamin's wife, Mary Jones at Tynycoed with parents and brother. As the first child was born c.1845, I assume they would have married around 1843-1845. I cannot find Benjamin on 1841, his birth was Pencarreg. I found them 1851 living at the same place as Mary's family in 1841. Tynycoed Mary Jones, Head 68 Benjamin Davies, son-in-law, 31, Pencarreg Mary Davies, wife, 32, caio Margaret Davies, dau, 6, caio (this I believe should read Mary) Margaret Davies, dau 4 Elizabeth Davies, dau 2 Diana, kindly sent me 1861 off list. Shows above family without mother-in-law living at Maisynhaidd with an additional son, Rees aged 9. I suppose I'm left with trying to search for their marriage certificate. I was wondering if one of their daughters could have possibly been the mother of Elizabeth, and because from 1881 census she is put as a grandchild, i thought all i could do was search this family in the hope they point to my Elizabeth. As for the John, perhaps, albeit he's been put down as father on marriage and death certificate, he may be a red herring and just thought as a father? Regards Helen