This is going to be a long email.............but I badly need help, guidance, inspiration from all that have been doing this family genealogy longer than me, more likely! OK, firstly I'm trying to find ancestors from my great grandmother. I know she was born 1874 (Elizabeth Davies), in Caio. I recently visited and found her gravestone. However, having died in early 30's getting the certificate will not show birth dates, because I've learnt they were not put down until the late 60's. I know when she married (have certificate). Found her on 1881 Census - this is when the trouble begins. I give it at end of this long note..(bare with me, I'm desperate!). It states that she is granddaughter of head of household. Have researched grandparents. All I can find from census is that the grandparents had 3 daughters and 1 son. On the 1881 Census, it also shows a lodger namely a John Davies. However, I found his gravestone on my recent trip and got his death certificate, and it showed that my Elizabeth's husband was at the death?! She also put this man (John) as her father on her marriage certificate. However, on researching him, he always stayed single, no news on any marriage, and my query is...if he is the father, how come he is very similar in age to the grandfather, as portrayed on 1881 Census??? I thought, ok perhaps he's a brother - but I can't marry them up - the Benjamin was away by 1841 and I cannot place him with John's family, and secondly, why is it put down on 1881 Census that she is the granddaughter of the head of the household, if a) it wasn't true and b) the lodger was later put down on records as the father????? The 1881 Census is correct, on my trip I found a cousin I didn't know I had! He confirmed. I understand you don't always take Census as gospel, but which should I follow - the possibility that John is the father, or rather that Benjamin is the grandfather?????? How are the two men related to Elizabeth???? Last year, I contacted the registry office in Carmarthenshire - they were very helpful, when I tried to find a certificate with John the father and no name for mother, they sent me the only certificate with father John and it was the wrong one! Any advice warmly appreciated. Researcher beginning to pull hair out!! Many thanks Helen Here is 1881 Entry: Dwelling: Glanrhyd Census Place: Conwil Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Source: FHL Film 1342298 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5386 Folio 64 Page 10 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Benjamin DAVIES M 57 M Pencarreg, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Head Occ: Farm Labourer Mary DAVIES M 62 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Wife Occ: Labourers Wife Thomas DAVIES 13 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: G Son Occ: Scholar Elizabeth DAVIES 7 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: G Daur Occ: Scholar John DAVIES U 58 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Lodger Occ: Farm Labourer

Helen Do you only have the 1881 census......you need to go back through the census to find them.... I have Ben Davies in 1851......maybe John Davies at home with his parents too.... Conwil Caio 1851 census dist 7 sch 63 page 17 Tynycoed Mary Jones head mar 68 farmers wife born Conwil Caio Benjamin Davies 31 son/law farmers s/law born Pencarreg Mary Davies dau 32 born Conwil Caio Margaret Davies dau 6 born Conwil Caio Margaret Davies dau 4 (same name twice??) born Conwil Caio Elizabeth Davies dau 2 born Conwil I have a John Davies of the correct age same district sch 57 page 16 Llwyndynied John Davies aged 28 brother William 26 parents John Davies 72 born Llanddewi Brevi Cards wife Elizabeth aged 65 born Conwil Caio as were John and William...... Have you found any of these in 1841 census..... If you can locate them in each census you should be able to tie them up somehow......perhaps John was unmarried and the same age as the grandfather but he was only 51 when Elizabeth was born......I shall see what I can find.... get back to you Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <HMC001@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] Needing Help & Inspiration!! > This is going to be a long email.............but I badly need help, > guidance, inspiration from all that have been doing this family genealogy > longer than > me, more likely! > > OK, firstly I'm trying to find ancestors from my great grandmother. I > know > she was born 1874 (Elizabeth Davies), in Caio. I recently visited and > found > her gravestone. However, having died in early 30's getting the > certificate > will not show birth dates, because I've learnt they were not put down > until > the late 60's. I know when she married (have certificate). > > Found her on 1881 Census - this is when the trouble begins. I give it at > end of this long note..(bare with me, I'm desperate!). It states that > she is > granddaughter of head of household. Have researched grandparents. All I > can > find from census is that the grandparents had 3 daughters and 1 son. On > the > 1881 Census, it also shows a lodger namely a John Davies. However, I > found > his gravestone on my recent trip and got his death certificate, and it > showed > that my Elizabeth's husband was at the death?! She also put this man > (John) > as her father on her marriage certificate. However, on researching him, > he > always stayed single, no news on any marriage, and my query is...if he is > the > father, how come he is very similar in age to the grandfather, as > portrayed > on 1881 Census??? I thought, ok perhaps he's a brother - but I can't > marry > them up - the Benjamin was away by 1841 and I cannot place him with > John's > family, and secondly, why is it put down on 1881 Census that she is the > granddaughter of the head of the household, if a) it wasn't true and b) > the lodger was > later put down on records as the father????? > > The 1881 Census is correct, on my trip I found a cousin I didn't know I > had! > He confirmed. > > I understand you don't always take Census as gospel, but which should I > follow - the possibility that John is the father, or rather that Benjamin > is the > grandfather?????? > How are the two men related to Elizabeth???? > Last year, I contacted the registry office in Carmarthenshire - they were > very helpful, when I tried to find a certificate with John the father and > no > name for mother, they sent me the only certificate with father John and it > was > the wrong one! > > Any advice warmly appreciated. Researcher beginning to pull hair out!! > > Many thanks > > Helen > Here is 1881 Entry: > > Dwelling: Glanrhyd > Census Place: Conwil Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Source: FHL Film 1342298 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5386 Folio 64 > Page > 10 > Marr Age Sex Birthplace > Benjamin DAVIES M 57 M Pencarreg, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: Head > Occ: Farm Labourer > Mary DAVIES M 62 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: Wife > Occ: Labourers Wife > Thomas DAVIES 13 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: G Son > Occ: Scholar > Elizabeth DAVIES 7 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: G Daur > Occ: Scholar > John DAVIES U 58 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: Lodger > Occ: Farm Labourer > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hello Helen What makes you think that the John Davies, lodger in 1881 census is the same John Davies who is Elizabeth's father? The name and occupation are such common ones that they could be completely different people. Even if he was just a lodger the reporting of his death by Elizabeth's husband in a small community shouldn't be too unusual. If you can't find Elizabeth's birth certificate, have you tried the parish registers for her baptism? Regards Liz -----Original Message----- From: HMC001@aol.com [mailto:HMC001@aol.com] Sent: 20 August 2005 17:29 To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Needing Help & Inspiration!! This is going to be a long email.............but I badly need help, guidance, inspiration from all that have been doing this family genealogy longer than me, more likely! OK, firstly I'm trying to find ancestors from my great grandmother. I know she was born 1874 (Elizabeth Davies), in Caio. I recently visited and found her gravestone. However, having died in early 30's getting the certificate will not show birth dates, because I've learnt they were not put down until the late 60's. I know when she married (have certificate). Found her on 1881 Census - this is when the trouble begins. I give it at end of this long note..(bare with me, I'm desperate!). It states that she is granddaughter of head of household. Have researched grandparents. All I can find from census is that the grandparents had 3 daughters and 1 son. On the 1881 Census, it also shows a lodger namely a John Davies. However, I found his gravestone on my recent trip and got his death certificate, and it showed that my Elizabeth's husband was at the death?! She also put this man (John) as her father on her marriage certificate. However, on researching him, he always stayed single, no news on any marriage, and my query is...if he is the father, how come he is very similar in age to the grandfather, as portrayed on 1881 Census??? I thought, ok perhaps he's a brother - but I can't marry them up - the Benjamin was away by 1841 and I cannot place him with John's family, and secondly, why is it put down on 1881 Census that she is the granddaughter of the head of the household, if a) it wasn't true and b) the lodger was later put down on records as the father????? The 1881 Census is correct, on my trip I found a cousin I didn't know I had! He confirmed. I understand you don't always take Census as gospel, but which should I follow - the possibility that John is the father, or rather that Benjamin is the grandfather?????? How are the two men related to Elizabeth???? Last year, I contacted the registry office in Carmarthenshire - they were very helpful, when I tried to find a certificate with John the father and no name for mother, they sent me the only certificate with father John and it was the wrong one! Any advice warmly appreciated. Researcher beginning to pull hair out!! Many thanks Helen Here is 1881 Entry: Dwelling: Glanrhyd Census Place: Conwil Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Source: FHL Film 1342298 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5386 Folio 64 Page 10 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Benjamin DAVIES M 57 M Pencarreg, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Head Occ: Farm Labourer Mary DAVIES M 62 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Wife Occ: Labourers Wife Thomas DAVIES 13 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: G Son Occ: Scholar Elizabeth DAVIES 7 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: G Daur Occ: Scholar John DAVIES U 58 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Lodger Occ: Farm Labourer ______________________________