Hi Neil Sorry taken so long, Sylvia prompted me that I had not replied, thanks Sylvia I cannot pinpoint Margaret Williams correctly, as you state there are so many of them........I looked in Llanelly to see how many there were, not that many of born circa 1848.......the closest was the one in Morning Star Llanelly, father is Thomas Williams aged 46 mother Lettice aged 38.....but he is a mason not a farmer....are you sure her father was a farmer.....otherwise there is a one year old lodger with no parents listed...... Better luck with David Morris, but, he was not baptised in either Abernant (his parish of birth) or in Trelech ...only one of their children was baptised in Trelech and that was 1825 20th March Trelech Sarah Morris dau of James and Anna..... being as David married in Rehoboth Chapel, they were probably non-conformists....... I have the marriage of the parents, prior to 1837 everyone had to marry in the parish church, you could not marry in chapel at that time.... 1821 11th June Trelech ar Bettws parish church Jame Morris and Annah Jones according to the 1851 census James was born in Eglwys fair in Pembrokeshire.....but in 1841 he states he was born in the county.....they were at that time living in abernant.....I believe you have that census......living in Pantcoch their children were Sarah 15, Thomas 12, Stephen 12, John 10, Anna 7, Elizabeth 4 and James 2 In 1851 they were in Trimsaran living which was part of Pembrey parish.....so they were not in Pembrey itself....... 1861 Pembrey parish (Trimsaran) Trillwm James Morris head marr 64 farmer 22 ac born Pembs Anna Morris wife marr 64 born Cenarth Pembs David Morris son 17 farmers son born Abernant Cms 1871 Trylwm James Morris head wid 76 farmer born Pembroke Sarah Morris dau single 50 born Carmarthen James Morris dau/son 5 born Pembrey Cannot seem David and Margaret in Pembrey in 1871.......do you know where they were then? I'll see what else I can find for you regards Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Hempstead" <neil.hempstead@sky.com> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Quiet list > hello, > > in response to your plea at this festive time, I'm trying to trace some > details on a Margaret Williams (my great grandmother) who was born at Five > Roads Llanelli (at least according to either the 1891 or 1901 census) in > abt > 1848. She married David Morris on Christmas Day 1868 at Rehoboth Chapel > (Bryndy?) Pembrey and in 1901 David kept the Gwalia store in Gwalia > terrace > Gorseinon ( a photo of it appeared on the old Gorseinon website - where > has > that gone?). Margaret was the daughter of a Thomas Williams, occupation > farmer. > > I'm trying to trace Margaret Williams birth record and other family > details, but on the 1851 census (ancestry) there are very few matches > with > Thomas Williams as father, except for one at Llandilofawr and on the 1861 > census records I've had little more success. > > Similarly I'm struggling to find the birth record details of David Morris, > b > abt 1843, son of James and Anna (Hannah) Morris who I believe were > married > in 1821 at Trelech, probably at the Independent Chapel (source IGI). On > the > 1851 census they were at Trillwm Farm Pembrey, given as 'Abernant'. David > had several older siblings (amongst whom Sarah, James, Anne, Thomas). > > If anyone can help I'd be very grateful. > > Neil Hempstead, husband of Elaine. > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "UK Genealogy" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:18 PM > To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [CMN-L] Quiet list > >> Hi >> >> Is everyone out Christmas shopping as the list is very quiet, does anyone >> have anything to share with us.....?? >> >> regards >> Pauline >> >> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com >> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> >> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available >> >> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hello Pauline - please don't worry about any sort of delay, and thanks for making the effort with your traces! Regarding Margaret, I had made the same 'finds ' as you, namely the Thomas & Lettice one (and yes, on David & Margaret's wedding certificate her father is definitely a farmer), and the other as a lodger. I have a feeling I'm going to struggle to get too much further along that track. I don't know if you spotted the 1871 census entry at Trylum where Sarah (born c. 1825 as you point out below) is back on the farm with father James, with status as unmarried, aged 50 but with a son (James) aged 5....... She seemingly was sent out to work at other farms in her early teenage years, and I assume that much later in life she must have become 'friendly' with a farmer or farm-hand! As for the 1871 census, David and Margaret are in Aberdare at 53 John Street - he'd obviously gone there for mining work - and I actually went to the address a couple of weeks ago to find the house (it's a terraced miner's cottage, actually in Abercwmboi). Thanks also for the further e-mail about David's birth certificate - please let me know how much I owe you for that. I'd narrowed his birth down to one of about 4 or 5 at that time and was about to take pot luck ! When we were at the Carmarthen Archive last month I went across to the records office who did a quick index search for me but without success - they suggested either Haverfordwest office (because of the Pembrokeshire connection with James) or even Llanelli. Anyway, I'll keep plodding on with that one too. Nice to make your acquaintance across the internet, and thanks again best regards Neil -------------------------------------------------- From: "UK Genealogy" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 8:27 AM To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Williams/Morris > Hi Neil > > Sorry taken so long, Sylvia prompted me that I had not replied, thanks > Sylvia > > I cannot pinpoint Margaret Williams correctly, as you state there are so > many of them........I looked in Llanelly to see how many there were, not > that many of born circa 1848.......the closest was the one in Morning Star > Llanelly, father is Thomas Williams aged 46 mother Lettice aged 38.....but > he is a mason not a farmer....are you sure her father was a > farmer.....otherwise there is a one year old lodger with no parents > listed...... > > Better luck with David Morris, but, he was not baptised in either Abernant > (his parish of birth) or in Trelech ...only one of their children was > baptised in Trelech and that was > > 1825 20th March Trelech > Sarah Morris dau of James and Anna..... > > being as David married in Rehoboth Chapel, they were probably > non-conformists....... > > I have the marriage of the parents, prior to 1837 everyone had to marry in > the parish church, you could not marry in chapel at that time.... > > 1821 11th June Trelech ar Bettws parish church > Jame Morris and Annah Jones > > according to the 1851 census James was born in Eglwys fair in > Pembrokeshire.....but in 1841 he states he was born in the county.....they > were at that time living in abernant.....I believe you have that > census......living in Pantcoch their children were Sarah 15, Thomas 12, > Stephen 12, John 10, Anna 7, Elizabeth 4 and James 2 > > In 1851 they were in Trimsaran living which was part of Pembrey > parish.....so they were not in Pembrey itself....... > > 1861 Pembrey parish (Trimsaran) > Trillwm > James Morris head marr 64 farmer 22 ac born Pembs > Anna Morris wife marr 64 born Cenarth Pembs > David Morris son 17 farmers son born Abernant Cms > > 1871 Trylwm > James Morris head wid 76 farmer born Pembroke > Sarah Morris dau single 50 born Carmarthen > James Morris dau/son 5 born Pembrey > > Cannot seem David and Margaret in Pembrey in 1871.......do you know where > they were then? > > I'll see what else I can find for you > > regards Pauline > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Neil Hempstead" <neil.hempstead@sky.com> > To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Quiet list > > >> hello, >> >> in response to your plea at this festive time, I'm trying to trace some >> details on a Margaret Williams (my great grandmother) who was born at >> Five >> Roads Llanelli (at least according to either the 1891 or 1901 census) in >> abt >> 1848. She married David Morris on Christmas Day 1868 at Rehoboth Chapel >> (Bryndy?) Pembrey and in 1901 David kept the Gwalia store in Gwalia >> terrace >> Gorseinon ( a photo of it appeared on the old Gorseinon website - where >> has >> that gone?). Margaret was the daughter of a Thomas Williams, occupation >> farmer. >> >> I'm trying to trace Margaret Williams birth record and other family >> details, but on the 1851 census (ancestry) there are very few matches >> with >> Thomas Williams as father, except for one at Llandilofawr and on the 1861 >> census records I've had little more success. >> >> Similarly I'm struggling to find the birth record details of David >> Morris, >> b >> abt 1843, son of James and Anna (Hannah) Morris who I believe were >> married >> in 1821 at Trelech, probably at the Independent Chapel (source IGI). On >> the >> 1851 census they were at Trillwm Farm Pembrey, given as 'Abernant'. >> David >> had several older siblings (amongst whom Sarah, James, Anne, Thomas). >> >> If anyone can help I'd be very grateful. >> >> Neil Hempstead, husband of Elaine. >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "UK Genealogy" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:18 PM >> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: [CMN-L] Quiet list >> >>> Hi >>> >>> Is everyone out Christmas shopping as the list is very quiet, does >>> anyone >>> have anything to share with us.....?? >>> >>> regards >>> Pauline >>> >>> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >>> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com >>> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >>> >>> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available >>> >>> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com >> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> >> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available >> >> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Neil I have looked at 1851 census again (indexed by CFHS) have eliminated the lodger as her father is David......they all live with a Rees household......I have tried just typing in Thomas William/s farm.......only 2 came up in Llanelly, there are farm labs etc....Five Roads is still not a very big place. Did she give Five Roads as her place of birth, let me know where you had the information from..... I have looked for burials on our Monumental CD for any Morris family in both Rehboth and Sardis chapels both in Trimsaran Pembrey parish but could not find a standing headstone for them......I also looked in Pembrey parish church burials, but again no luck in finding them......Looks like James is deceased by 1881. I did find Sarah and son James in 1881 but they were living in Syddin Bach, again in Trimsaran, she was still unmarried. Wonder what happened to the farm. I know that Trillwm in Trimsaran is now a housing estate, wonder if that was where the farm was.....have you ever been down that part of Wales....... Wonder why there is no birth certificate for him in Carmarthen registry office, ask if one of the other children are listed, try James aged 11 in 1851 so born c1840 as they were both born in Abernant......worth a try just to find out, you would not have to purchase the certificate, you did not have to in the past anyway...... This is a free list and we do lookups and try to help listers if we can....... Nice to meet your acquaintance too..... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Hempstead" <neil.hempstead@sky.com> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Williams/Morris > Hello Pauline - please don't worry about any sort of delay, and thanks for > making the effort with your traces! > Regarding Margaret, I had made the same 'finds ' as you, namely the Thomas > & > Lettice one (and yes, on David & Margaret's wedding certificate her father > is definitely a farmer), and the other as a lodger. I have a feeling I'm > going to struggle to get too much further along that track. > > I don't know if you spotted the 1871 census entry at Trylum where Sarah > (born c. 1825 as you point out below) is back on the farm with father > James, with status as unmarried, aged 50 but with a son (James) aged > 5....... She seemingly was sent out to work at other farms in her early > teenage years, and I assume that much later in life she must have become > 'friendly' with a farmer or farm-hand! > > As for the 1871 census, David and Margaret are in Aberdare at 53 John > Street - he'd obviously gone there for mining work - and I actually went > to > the address a couple of weeks ago to find the house (it's a terraced > miner's > cottage, actually in Abercwmboi). > > Thanks also for the further e-mail about David's birth certificate - > please > let me know how much I owe you for that. I'd narrowed his birth down to > one > of about 4 or 5 at that time and was about to take pot luck ! When we were > at the Carmarthen Archive last month I went across to the records office > who > did a quick index search for me but without success - they suggested > either > Haverfordwest office (because of the Pembrokeshire connection with James) > or > even Llanelli. Anyway, I'll keep plodding on with that one too. > > Nice to make your acquaintance across the internet, and thanks again > > best regards > > Neil > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "UK Genealogy" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 8:27 AM > To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Williams/Morris > >> Hi Neil >> >> Sorry taken so long, Sylvia prompted me that I had not replied, thanks >> Sylvia >> >> I cannot pinpoint Margaret Williams correctly, as you state there are so >> many of them........I looked in Llanelly to see how many there were, not >> that many of born circa 1848.......the closest was the one in Morning >> Star >> Llanelly, father is Thomas Williams aged 46 mother Lettice aged >> 38.....but >> he is a mason not a farmer....are you sure her father was a >> farmer.....otherwise there is a one year old lodger with no parents >> listed...... >> >> Better luck with David Morris, but, he was not baptised in either >> Abernant >> (his parish of birth) or in Trelech ...only one of their children was >> baptised in Trelech and that was >> >> 1825 20th March Trelech >> Sarah Morris dau of James and Anna..... >> >> being as David married in Rehoboth Chapel, they were probably >> non-conformists....... >> >> I have the marriage of the parents, prior to 1837 everyone had to marry >> in >> the parish church, you could not marry in chapel at that time.... >> >> 1821 11th June Trelech ar Bettws parish church >> Jame Morris and Annah Jones >> >> according to the 1851 census James was born in Eglwys fair in >> Pembrokeshire.....but in 1841 he states he was born in the >> county.....they >> were at that time living in abernant.....I believe you have that >> census......living in Pantcoch their children were Sarah 15, Thomas 12, >> Stephen 12, John 10, Anna 7, Elizabeth 4 and James 2 >> >> In 1851 they were in Trimsaran living which was part of Pembrey >> parish.....so they were not in Pembrey itself....... >> >> 1861 Pembrey parish (Trimsaran) >> Trillwm >> James Morris head marr 64 farmer 22 ac born Pembs >> Anna Morris wife marr 64 born Cenarth Pembs >> David Morris son 17 farmers son born Abernant Cms >> >> 1871 Trylwm >> James Morris head wid 76 farmer born Pembroke >> Sarah Morris dau single 50 born Carmarthen >> James Morris dau/son 5 born Pembrey >> >> Cannot seem David and Margaret in Pembrey in 1871.......do you know where >> they were then? >> >> I'll see what else I can find for you >> >> regards Pauline >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Neil Hempstead" <neil.hempstead@sky.com> >> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:28 AM >> Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Quiet list >> >> >>> hello, >>> >>> in response to your plea at this festive time, I'm trying to trace some >>> details on a Margaret Williams (my great grandmother) who was born at >>> Five >>> Roads Llanelli (at least according to either the 1891 or 1901 census) in >>> abt >>> 1848. She married David Morris on Christmas Day 1868 at Rehoboth Chapel >>> (Bryndy?) Pembrey and in 1901 David kept the Gwalia store in Gwalia >>> terrace >>> Gorseinon ( a photo of it appeared on the old Gorseinon website - where >>> has >>> that gone?). Margaret was the daughter of a Thomas Williams, occupation >>> farmer. >>> >>> I'm trying to trace Margaret Williams birth record and other family >>> details, but on the 1851 census (ancestry) there are very few matches >>> with >>> Thomas Williams as father, except for one at Llandilofawr and on the >>> 1861 >>> census records I've had little more success. >>> >>> Similarly I'm struggling to find the birth record details of David >>> Morris, >>> b >>> abt 1843, son of James and Anna (Hannah) Morris who I believe were >>> married >>> in 1821 at Trelech, probably at the Independent Chapel (source IGI). On >>> the >>> 1851 census they were at Trillwm Farm Pembrey, given as 'Abernant'. >>> David >>> had several older siblings (amongst whom Sarah, James, Anne, Thomas). >>> >>> If anyone can help I'd be very grateful. >>> >>> Neil Hempstead, husband of Elaine. >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "UK Genealogy" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:18 PM >>> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> >>> Subject: [CMN-L] Quiet list >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Is everyone out Christmas shopping as the list is very quiet, does >>>> anyone >>>> have anything to share with us.....?? >>>> >>>> regards >>>> Pauline >>>> >>>> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >>>> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com >>>> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >>>> >>>> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available >>>> >>>> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >>> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com >>> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >>> >>> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available >>> >>> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> >> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com >> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> >> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available >> >> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >