HI Gordon and Peter I forgot about this one.....lovely story she must have been such a woman.....this was from the late 1840'early 50's.... Catherine Harwood was a sister to my gtgtgrandfather from Kent......she had three illegitimate children by her elder sisters husband namely John Lines from Kensington London who was very affluent.......she lived with her brothers in Chelsea in 1851, on the birth certificates of the 3 children, she gave her name as Catherine Harwood nee Lines......the name of the father on the birth certificates was her brother William Harwood.....he could not sign in two of them but could on the one......these children kept the surname Harwood.......on the death of her brother in law,in his will he mentioned Catherine and the three children and left them all money.....this woman went on to marry a Surgeon promoted her father to Gentleman, and lived out her life in style.....I would have loved to know this story, or even anyone who is pursuing this family......I only found out this connection as my gtgtgrandfather moved to Swansea with an older brother (sent by the brother in law as they worked for him) and Septimus the illegitimate son of Catherine Harwood and John Lines was baptised in Swansea at the age of 13 giving names and addresses of both parents....never have known anything about this story otherwise... Think they made up more stories in those days than what we do now!!! Thought I would share this one too.....being as she made up so many stories during her lifetime... Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jones Sent: 22 February 2010 17:19 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! Hi Gordon I have several cases where the marriage certificates show the name of a father when to all intents and purposes the Groom was given his Mother's surname when his birth was registered, ie he was, or seems to have been, base born. In one case the Groom showed his father as William. Co-incidentally this was the Christian name of his Step Father who had an entirely different surname! In another case the Groom's father is shown as George but since I haven't found parents for his mother yet I can't establish for certain that the Mother didn't make a mistake and show her Husband's surname instead of her real Maiden name? Mind you I can't find a father for him called George yet either so by showing an untraceable father he has caused me more problems! I also have a case where the shown (but clearly fictitious) Father's name is, coincidentally (!), the same name as his Mother's father ie his Grandfather who he had lived with all his life!! Perhaps he grew up thinking that his Grandfather was his father. I also have three children who several of us believe were sired by the Mother's father ie their Grandfather. I haven't looked to see what they put on their marriage certificates yet! And finally, I have of course also got several instances where the Mother gave her son the surname of the man she married shortly after the birth suggesting quite strongly that he was the father! I think the latter reason is fairly common quite normal. Especially if they couldn't wait until the much used marrying day, 25th December, when both parties had a holiday! I am sending this reply via the list partly because several members have responded and partly because the more examples we have of what we might see when faced with a problem of yesteryear, the better equipped we all are to find possible solutions. Regards Peter Jones Hornchurch Essex Studying Trus(s)lers etc worldwide -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gordon myddelton Sent: 22 February 2010 12:06 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on. http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Same thing here in the US. A cousin of mine has on her mom's side, a relative who never married, but lived with a man named KITTS for years--they had a bunch of children--all surnamed KITTS. She went on to have 4 more children AFTER HE DIED--all surnamed KITTS! Now, that is staying power! LOL! I have no idea how loose people can play with birth records here nowadays, but I always get a kick out of this story. Also, an expression in the South (at least in a corner of East Tennessee) is "woods' colt" for an illegitmate child--the mare went into the woods and voila--a colt! Mona ----- Original Message ---- From: Pauline <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 12:08:50 PM Subject: [CMN-L] FW: Facts! HI Gordon and Peter I forgot about this one.....lovely story she must have been such a woman.....this was from the late 1840'early 50's.... Catherine Harwood was a sister to my gtgtgrandfather from Kent......she had three illegitimate children by her elder sisters husband namely John Lines from Kensington London who was very affluent.......she lived with her brothers in Chelsea in 1851, on the birth certificates of the 3 children, she gave her name as Catherine Harwood nee Lines......the name of the father on the birth certificates was her brother William Harwood.....he could not sign in two of them but could on the one......these children kept the surname Harwood.......on the death of her brother in law,in his will he mentioned Catherine and the three children and left them all money.....this woman went on to marry a Surgeon promoted her father to Gentleman, and lived out her life in style.....I would have loved to know this story, or even anyone who is pursuing this family......I only found out this connection as my gtgtgrandfather moved to Swansea with an older brother (sent by the brother in law as they worked for him) and Septimus the illegitimate son of Catherine Harwood and John Lines was baptised in Swansea at the age of 13 giving names and addresses of both parents....never have known anything about this story otherwise... Think they made up more stories in those days than what we do now!!! Thought I would share this one too.....being as she made up so many stories during her lifetime... Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jones Sent: 22 February 2010 17:19 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! Hi Gordon I have several cases where the marriage certificates show the name of a father when to all intents and purposes the Groom was given his Mother's surname when his birth was registered, ie he was, or seems to have been, base born. In one case the Groom showed his father as William. Co-incidentally this was the Christian name of his Step Father who had an entirely different surname! In another case the Groom's father is shown as George but since I haven't found parents for his mother yet I can't establish for certain that the Mother didn't make a mistake and show her Husband's surname instead of her real Maiden name? Mind you I can't find a father for him called George yet either so by showing an untraceable father he has caused me more problems! I also have a case where the shown (but clearly fictitious) Father's name is, coincidentally (!), the same name as his Mother's father ie his Grandfather who he had lived with all his life!! Perhaps he grew up thinking that his Grandfather was his father. I also have three children who several of us believe were sired by the Mother's father ie their Grandfather. I haven't looked to see what they put on their marriage certificates yet! And finally, I have of course also got several instances where the Mother gave her son the surname of the man she married shortly after the birth suggesting quite strongly that he was the father! I think the latter reason is fairly common quite normal. Especially if they couldn't wait until the much used marrying day, 25th December, when both parties had a holiday! I am sending this reply via the list partly because several members have responded and partly because the more examples we have of what we might see when faced with a problem of yesteryear, the better equipped we all are to find possible solutions. Regards Peter Jones Hornchurch Essex Studying Trus(s)lers etc worldwide -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gordon myddelton Sent: 22 February 2010 12:06 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on. http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message