I think full age was 21. One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. bws ~Fee~ --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 > In 1838 > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname > from? > -- > Gareth Jones > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Thanks -- Gareth Jones ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I think full age was 21. > > One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. > > In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. > > I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. > > I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. > bws > ~Fee~ > > --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 > > In 1838 > > > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname > > from? > > -- > > Gareth Jones > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks -- Gareth Jones ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I think full age was 21. > > One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. > > In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. > > I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. > > I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. > bws > ~Fee~ > > --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 > > In 1838 > > > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname > > from? > > -- > > Gareth Jones > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, same as Fee......my gt.gt grandfathers sister never married but had one child.....the father not named on the birth certificate, but went by the surname of the father.....the mother was Rachel Harvey, whilst the son was Daniel Anthony......he died aged 19 and was buried with his grandmother but he was listed as nephew and not grandson...... Also full age was 21, but a couple could marry from the age of 14...up until the law changed. When under the age of 21 they had to marry with the consent of parents...but again they did not have to show a birth certificate to prove their age, my grandmother in 1907 stated she was 21 when in fact she was only 17. Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com Sent: 21 February 2010 17:44 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! Thanks -- Gareth Jones ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I think full age was 21. > > One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. > > In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. > > I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. > > I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. > bws > ~Fee~ > > --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 In 1838 > > > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname from? > > -- > > Gareth Jones > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! > Yes, same as Fee......my gt.gt grandfathers sister never married but had > one > child.....the father not named on the birth certificate, but went by the > surname of the father.....the mother was Rachel Harvey, whilst the son was > Daniel Anthony......he died aged 19 and was buried with his grandmother > but > he was listed as nephew and not grandson...... > > Also full age was 21, but a couple could marry from the age of 14...up > until > the law changed. When under the age of 21 they had to marry with the > consent of parents...but again they did not have to show a birth > certificate > to prove their age, my grandmother in 1907 stated she was 21 when in fact > she was only 17. > > Pauline > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com > Sent: 21 February 2010 17:44 > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! > > Thanks > -- > Gareth Jones > > ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> I think full age was 21. >> >> One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no > father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth > without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a > child might have no father shown. >> >> In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to > attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate > as father. >> >> I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was > concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of > a > marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the > children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were > registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. >> >> I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named > whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply > handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the > child. >> bws >> ~Fee~ >> >> --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com > <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> >> > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> >> > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! >> > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 In 1838 >> > >> > 1 What was meant by full age? >> > >> > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: >> > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname from? >> > -- >> > Gareth Jones >> > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info >> > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info >> > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> > >> > >> > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com >> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> > the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> >> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> http://www.free-genealogy-online.info >> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info >> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> >> >> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Again from my own family, my uncle never had his fathers name on his birth certificate (1907), but my grandmother and grandfather did marry after he was born, he had his fathers name on his marriage certificate....but, he always used his mothers maiden name as his middle name.....Bertram Harwood Thomas.... Did yours take a middle name? Which year was this, which parish maybe we can help? Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gordon myddelton Sent: 22 February 2010 13:06 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! > Yes, same as Fee......my gt.gt grandfathers sister never married but > had one child.....the father not named on the birth certificate, but > went by the surname of the father.....the mother was Rachel Harvey, > whilst the son was Daniel Anthony......he died aged 19 and was buried > with his grandmother but he was listed as nephew and not > grandson...... > > Also full age was 21, but a couple could marry from the age of 14...up > until the law changed. When under the age of 21 they had to marry > with the consent of parents...but again they did not have to show a > birth certificate to prove their age, my grandmother in 1907 stated > she was 21 when in fact she was only 17. > > Pauline > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com > Sent: 21 February 2010 17:44 > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! > > Thanks > -- > Gareth Jones > > ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> I think full age was 21. >> >> One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no > father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in > childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the > father, then a child might have no father shown. >> >> In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father >> had to > attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the > certificate as father. >> >> I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was > concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record > of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all > the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that > they were registered however... they were given the father's name on > the census. >> >> I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be >> named > whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother > simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's > surname for the child. >> bws >> ~Fee~ >> >> --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com > <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> >> > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> >> > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! >> > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 In 1838 >> > >> > 1 What was meant by full age? >> > >> > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: >> > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname from? >> > -- >> > Gareth Jones >> > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info >> > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info >> > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> > >> > >> > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com >> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> > the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> >> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> http://www.free-genealogy-online.info >> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info >> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> >> >> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message