HI Gordon and Peter I forgot about this one.....lovely story she must have been such a woman.....this was from the late 1840'early 50's.... Catherine Harwood was a sister to my gtgtgrandfather from Kent......she had three illegitimate children by her elder sisters husband namely John Lines from Kensington London who was very affluent.......she lived with her brothers in Chelsea in 1851, on the birth certificates of the 3 children, she gave her name as Catherine Harwood nee Lines......the name of the father on the birth certificates was her brother William Harwood.....he could not sign in two of them but could on the one......these children kept the surname Harwood.......on the death of her brother in law,in his will he mentioned Catherine and the three children and left them all money.....this woman went on to marry a Surgeon promoted her father to Gentleman, and lived out her life in style.....I would have loved to know this story, or even anyone who is pursuing this family......I only found out this connection as my gtgtgrandfather moved to Swansea with an older brother (sent by the brother in law as they worked for him) and Septimus the illegitimate son of Catherine Harwood and John Lines was baptised in Swansea at the age of 13 giving names and addresses of both parents....never have known anything about this story otherwise... Think they made up more stories in those days than what we do now!!! Thought I would share this one too.....being as she made up so many stories during her lifetime... Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jones Sent: 22 February 2010 17:19 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! Hi Gordon I have several cases where the marriage certificates show the name of a father when to all intents and purposes the Groom was given his Mother's surname when his birth was registered, ie he was, or seems to have been, base born. In one case the Groom showed his father as William. Co-incidentally this was the Christian name of his Step Father who had an entirely different surname! In another case the Groom's father is shown as George but since I haven't found parents for his mother yet I can't establish for certain that the Mother didn't make a mistake and show her Husband's surname instead of her real Maiden name? Mind you I can't find a father for him called George yet either so by showing an untraceable father he has caused me more problems! I also have a case where the shown (but clearly fictitious) Father's name is, coincidentally (!), the same name as his Mother's father ie his Grandfather who he had lived with all his life!! Perhaps he grew up thinking that his Grandfather was his father. I also have three children who several of us believe were sired by the Mother's father ie their Grandfather. I haven't looked to see what they put on their marriage certificates yet! And finally, I have of course also got several instances where the Mother gave her son the surname of the man she married shortly after the birth suggesting quite strongly that he was the father! I think the latter reason is fairly common quite normal. Especially if they couldn't wait until the much used marrying day, 25th December, when both parties had a holiday! I am sending this reply via the list partly because several members have responded and partly because the more examples we have of what we might see when faced with a problem of yesteryear, the better equipped we all are to find possible solutions. Regards Peter Jones Hornchurch Essex Studying Trus(s)lers etc worldwide -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gordon myddelton Sent: 22 February 2010 12:06 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on. http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Gordon I have several cases where the marriage certificates show the name of a father when to all intents and purposes the Groom was given his Mother's surname when his birth was registered, ie he was, or seems to have been, base born. In one case the Groom showed his father as William. Co-incidentally this was the Christian name of his Step Father who had an entirely different surname! In another case the Groom's father is shown as George but since I haven't found parents for his mother yet I can't establish for certain that the Mother didn't make a mistake and show her Husband's surname instead of her real Maiden name? Mind you I can't find a father for him called George yet either so by showing an untraceable father he has caused me more problems! I also have a case where the shown (but clearly fictitious) Father's name is, coincidentally (!), the same name as his Mother's father ie his Grandfather who he had lived with all his life!! Perhaps he grew up thinking that his Grandfather was his father. I also have three children who several of us believe were sired by the Mother's father ie their Grandfather. I haven't looked to see what they put on their marriage certificates yet! And finally, I have of course also got several instances where the Mother gave her son the surname of the man she married shortly after the birth suggesting quite strongly that he was the father! I think the latter reason is fairly common quite normal. Especially if they couldn't wait until the much used marrying day, 25th December, when both parties had a holiday! I am sending this reply via the list partly because several members have responded and partly because the more examples we have of what we might see when faced with a problem of yesteryear, the better equipped we all are to find possible solutions. Regards Peter Jones Hornchurch Essex Studying Trus(s)lers etc worldwide -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gordon myddelton Sent: 22 February 2010 12:06 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on.

Again from my own family, my uncle never had his fathers name on his birth certificate (1907), but my grandmother and grandfather did marry after he was born, he had his fathers name on his marriage certificate....but, he always used his mothers maiden name as his middle name.....Bertram Harwood Thomas.... Did yours take a middle name? Which year was this, which parish maybe we can help? Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gordon myddelton Sent: 22 February 2010 13:06 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! > Yes, same as Fee......my gt.gt grandfathers sister never married but > had one child.....the father not named on the birth certificate, but > went by the surname of the father.....the mother was Rachel Harvey, > whilst the son was Daniel Anthony......he died aged 19 and was buried > with his grandmother but he was listed as nephew and not > grandson...... > > Also full age was 21, but a couple could marry from the age of 14...up > until the law changed. When under the age of 21 they had to marry > with the consent of parents...but again they did not have to show a > birth certificate to prove their age, my grandmother in 1907 stated > she was 21 when in fact she was only 17. > > Pauline > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com > Sent: 21 February 2010 17:44 > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! > > Thanks > -- > Gareth Jones > > ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> I think full age was 21. >> >> One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no > father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in > childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the > father, then a child might have no father shown. >> >> In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father >> had to > attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the > certificate as father. >> >> I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was > concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record > of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all > the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that > they were registered however... they were given the father's name on > the census. >> >> I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be >> named > whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother > simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's > surname for the child. >> bws >> ~Fee~ >> >> --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com > <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> >> > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> >> > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! >> > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 In 1838 >> > >> > 1 What was meant by full age? >> > >> > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: >> > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname from? >> > -- >> > Gareth Jones >> > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info >> > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info >> > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> > >> > >> > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com >> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> > the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> >> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> http://www.free-genealogy-online.info >> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info >> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> >> >> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I'm looking for the marriage of Mary? of Cilycwm to Thomas Thomas of Myddfai about 1840-1841) Their first child, Thomas Chirstopher thomas was born about 1842 in Cilycwm. Thanks, Susan

Hi, Same thing here in the US. A cousin of mine has on her mom's side, a relative who never married, but lived with a man named KITTS for years--they had a bunch of children--all surnamed KITTS. She went on to have 4 more children AFTER HE DIED--all surnamed KITTS! Now, that is staying power! LOL! I have no idea how loose people can play with birth records here nowadays, but I always get a kick out of this story. Also, an expression in the South (at least in a corner of East Tennessee) is "woods' colt" for an illegitmate child--the mare went into the woods and voila--a colt! Mona ----- Original Message ---- From: Pauline <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 12:08:50 PM Subject: [CMN-L] FW: Facts! HI Gordon and Peter I forgot about this one.....lovely story she must have been such a woman.....this was from the late 1840'early 50's.... Catherine Harwood was a sister to my gtgtgrandfather from Kent......she had three illegitimate children by her elder sisters husband namely John Lines from Kensington London who was very affluent.......she lived with her brothers in Chelsea in 1851, on the birth certificates of the 3 children, she gave her name as Catherine Harwood nee Lines......the name of the father on the birth certificates was her brother William Harwood.....he could not sign in two of them but could on the one......these children kept the surname Harwood.......on the death of her brother in law,in his will he mentioned Catherine and the three children and left them all money.....this woman went on to marry a Surgeon promoted her father to Gentleman, and lived out her life in style.....I would have loved to know this story, or even anyone who is pursuing this family......I only found out this connection as my gtgtgrandfather moved to Swansea with an older brother (sent by the brother in law as they worked for him) and Septimus the illegitimate son of Catherine Harwood and John Lines was baptised in Swansea at the age of 13 giving names and addresses of both parents....never have known anything about this story otherwise... Think they made up more stories in those days than what we do now!!! Thought I would share this one too.....being as she made up so many stories during her lifetime... Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jones Sent: 22 February 2010 17:19 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! Hi Gordon I have several cases where the marriage certificates show the name of a father when to all intents and purposes the Groom was given his Mother's surname when his birth was registered, ie he was, or seems to have been, base born. In one case the Groom showed his father as William. Co-incidentally this was the Christian name of his Step Father who had an entirely different surname! In another case the Groom's father is shown as George but since I haven't found parents for his mother yet I can't establish for certain that the Mother didn't make a mistake and show her Husband's surname instead of her real Maiden name? Mind you I can't find a father for him called George yet either so by showing an untraceable father he has caused me more problems! I also have a case where the shown (but clearly fictitious) Father's name is, coincidentally (!), the same name as his Mother's father ie his Grandfather who he had lived with all his life!! Perhaps he grew up thinking that his Grandfather was his father. I also have three children who several of us believe were sired by the Mother's father ie their Grandfather. I haven't looked to see what they put on their marriage certificates yet! And finally, I have of course also got several instances where the Mother gave her son the surname of the man she married shortly after the birth suggesting quite strongly that he was the father! I think the latter reason is fairly common quite normal. Especially if they couldn't wait until the much used marrying day, 25th December, when both parties had a holiday! I am sending this reply via the list partly because several members have responded and partly because the more examples we have of what we might see when faced with a problem of yesteryear, the better equipped we all are to find possible solutions. Regards Peter Jones Hornchurch Essex Studying Trus(s)lers etc worldwide -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gordon myddelton Sent: 22 February 2010 12:06 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on. http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My gt.gt.gt.grandfather's birth certificate shows no father's name on it but when he married there was a father's name on his marriage certificate. Could he have just picked any name as I can't find any trace of the name in any of the census returns the family are on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline" <ukgenealogy@onvol.net> To: <carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! > Yes, same as Fee......my gt.gt grandfathers sister never married but had > one > child.....the father not named on the birth certificate, but went by the > surname of the father.....the mother was Rachel Harvey, whilst the son was > Daniel Anthony......he died aged 19 and was buried with his grandmother > but > he was listed as nephew and not grandson...... > > Also full age was 21, but a couple could marry from the age of 14...up > until > the law changed. When under the age of 21 they had to marry with the > consent of parents...but again they did not have to show a birth > certificate > to prove their age, my grandmother in 1907 stated she was 21 when in fact > she was only 17. > > Pauline > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com > Sent: 21 February 2010 17:44 > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! > > Thanks > -- > Gareth Jones > > ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> I think full age was 21. >> >> One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no > father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth > without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a > child might have no father shown. >> >> In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to > attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate > as father. >> >> I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was > concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of > a > marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the > children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were > registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. >> >> I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named > whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply > handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the > child. >> bws >> ~Fee~ >> >> --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com > <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> >> > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> >> > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! >> > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 In 1838 >> > >> > 1 What was meant by full age? >> > >> > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: >> > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname from? >> > -- >> > Gareth Jones >> > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info >> > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info >> > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> > >> > >> > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com >> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> > the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> >> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info >> http://www.free-genealogy-online.info >> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info >> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... >> >> >> carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Yes, same as Fee......my gt.gt grandfathers sister never married but had one child.....the father not named on the birth certificate, but went by the surname of the father.....the mother was Rachel Harvey, whilst the son was Daniel Anthony......he died aged 19 and was buried with his grandmother but he was listed as nephew and not grandson...... Also full age was 21, but a couple could marry from the age of 14...up until the law changed. When under the age of 21 they had to marry with the consent of parents...but again they did not have to show a birth certificate to prove their age, my grandmother in 1907 stated she was 21 when in fact she was only 17. Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com Sent: 21 February 2010 17:44 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Facts! Thanks -- Gareth Jones ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I think full age was 21. > > One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. > > In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. > > I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. > > I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. > bws > ~Fee~ > > --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 In 1838 > > > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname from? > > -- > > Gareth Jones > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mervyn This list has been very quiet for a while......are you subscribed to the members list too? That is more active Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of M. Lewis Luz Sent: 21 February 2010 07:32 To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [CMN-L] pauline hi pauline i havent received any mail since 18/02 - is it just quiet or has my address slipped out of the list i just changed my email address for receiving a few moments ago in order to make things easier mervyn mervyn1@bezeqint.net http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks -- Gareth Jones ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I think full age was 21. > > One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. > > In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. > > I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. > > I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. > bws > ~Fee~ > > --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 > > In 1838 > > > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname > > from? > > -- > > Gareth Jones > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks -- Gareth Jones ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I think full age was 21. > > One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. > > In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. > > I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. > > I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. > bws > ~Fee~ > > --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 > > In 1838 > > > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname > > from? > > -- > > Gareth Jones > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks -- Gareth Jones ---- Caliandris <caliandris@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I think full age was 21. > > One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. > > In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. > > I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. > > I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. > bws > ~Fee~ > > --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 > > In 1838 > > > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname > > from? > > -- > > Gareth Jones > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think full age was 21. One of my elderly cousins was born as the result of rape. She has no father shown on her birth certificate. If the mother died in childbirth without disclosing the father, or refused to identify the father, then a child might have no father shown. In cases where a child was born out of wedlock, I think the father had to attend the registration and agree to his name appearing on the certificate as father. I do not know what the conventions were as far as naming the baby was concerned. I have one family in Carmarthen where I can find no record of a marriage and the mother continued to use her maiden name, but all the children were given their father's surname. I can't find that they were registered however... they were given the father's name on the census. I think, as long as there was no fraud involved, the child could be named whatever the person registering chose to call them - some mother simply handed on their own surname, others adopted the father's surname for the child. bws ~Fee~ --- On Sun, 21/2/10, gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> wrote: > From: gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com <gareth.jones797@ntlworld.com> > Subject: [CMN-L] Facts! > To: carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 13:40 > In 1838 > > 1 What was meant by full age? > > 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: > illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname > from? > -- > Gareth Jones > http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info > http://www.free-genealogy-online.info > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info > Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... > > > carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

In 1838 1 What was meant by full age? 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname from? -- Gareth Jones

In 1838 1 What was meant by full age? 2 If a bride had no father's name on a wedding certificate: illegitimate? "Workhouse"? Where did she get her surname from? -- Gareth Jones

Hello list, Trying to find out if my Mary Roberts, born 06-01-1867 Felinfoel, daugther of Edward Roberts and Margaret Phillips got married. She is not mentioned on the family grave stone, so think she must have got married. Two other sister died unmarried and are marked on the headsone. The marriage will have taken place at Adulam Felinfoel. Who can help me? Elwyn - Netherlands.

Hello List, Who can find my Jones family in 1871 at Felinfoel, possibly at Adulam Row. Mother Sarah ( Sal/Sally) Jones, Father possibly John Jones Children: William Benjamin Jones 1854 John Jones 1860 Elwyn.

hi pauline i havent received any mail since 18/02 - is it just quiet or has my address slipped out of the list i just changed my email address for receiving a few moments ago in order to make things easier mervyn mervyn1@bezeqint.net

Does anyone in the group have a link with descendants of Thelma Davies, b 1921 Llanelli, daughter of Nellie (Sarah Ellen) Davies i did find a match in a tree on another site (genesunited) but they do not pass on mail from non-members and i did not see the tree itself. mervyn

Hi Cathy I can confirm the information on David Davies born St Peters 1833 22nd November born 29th October St Peters parish church David Davies son James and Justina, Queen Street, Writer I have siblings too, do you have these, or do you want me to give them to you... Justina and James marriage 1825 31st May St Peters parish church James Davies of Llanelly and Justina Davids of this parish Baptism of Justina 1807 14h March St Peters Justina Elizabeth dau of Edward Davies, Esquire by Prudence Goldstone I can tell you that these two above did not marry 1808 18th June Meidrim parish church Edward Davids Esq of St Peters and Elizabeth Evans of this parish 1808 6th November St Peters parish church Joseph Lewis painter and Prudence Goulstone.... Burial St Peters parish church 1853 30th September Justina Davies, Spilman St Carmarthen, aged 48 I have them in 1841 Laugharne parish....... Do you have this information? I am going through books to see if I can find Edward Davies, which does interchange between Davids and Davies.......let me know Thanks Pauline -----Original Message----- From: carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:carmarthenshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cathy barber Sent: 16 February 2010 13:13 To: CARMARTHENSHIRE@rootsweb.com Subject: [CMN-L] Sir Robert Henry Davies 1824 - 1902 Hi all My great great grandfather David Picton Davies born Carmarthen town in 1833 became a civil engineer and surveyor and travelled the World. In August 1885 whilst living in Australia he unfortunately got into money difficulties and ended up in court owing £50 ( Australian online newspapers) To show his good character his solicitor states that he is the nephew of SIR HENRY ROBERT DAVIES, once Governor of the Punjab, India. This is news to me!! I have tried to backtrack and trace Robert Henry, he was born in London to a SIR DAVID DAVIES who just happened to be physician to King William IV and Queen Victoria! This David was born to a David Davies of Gorwydd, Llanddewi, Cardigan. David's mother Eleanor had a father called John Price of Rhosybedw, Llanwrda. Robert Henry Davies, following an illustrious career in India, gaive his address as Rhosybedw, Pumpsaint, Llandillo, Carmarthenshire. My question is how can I prove/disprove the link between my David Picton Davies and Robert Henry or his father David. I know David Picton Davies's father was James Davies of Llanelly - no other info, too many Davies's. David Picton's mother Justina, was the illegitimate daughter of an Edward Davies Esq of Carmarthen Town. no other info on Edward. I think he may have been from Talley, maybe the link is on Edwards side? Can anyone help find out who Sir David Davies siblings were? or any other info on this very well to do family!! Sir David Davies 1792- 1865 Sir Robert Henry Davies 1824 - 1902 Many thanks Cathy N Devon Cathy M Picton Barber Researching Picton - Davies all over the World esp India, NZ, Oz and Singapore http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info http://www.free-genealogy-online.info http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.info Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List......... carmarthenshire@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARMARTHENSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all My great great grandfather David Picton Davies born Carmarthen town in 1833 became a civil engineer and surveyor and travelled the World. In August 1885 whilst living in Australia he unfortunately got into money difficulties and ended up in court owing £50 ( Australian online newspapers) To show his good character his solicitor states that he is the nephew of SIR HENRY ROBERT DAVIES, once Governor of the Punjab, India. This is news to me!! I have tried to backtrack and trace Robert Henry, he was born in London to a SIR DAVID DAVIES who just happened to be physician to King William IV and Queen Victoria! This David was born to a David Davies of Gorwydd, Llanddewi, Cardigan. David's mother Eleanor had a father called John Price of Rhosybedw, Llanwrda. Robert Henry Davies, following an illustrious career in India, gaive his address as Rhosybedw, Pumpsaint, Llandillo, Carmarthenshire. My question is how can I prove/disprove the link between my David Picton Davies and Robert Henry or his father David. I know David Picton Davies's father was James Davies of Llanelly - no other info, too many Davies's. David Picton's mother Justina, was the illegitimate daughter of an Edward Davies Esq of Carmarthen Town. no other info on Edward. I think he may have been from Talley, maybe the link is on Edwards side? Can anyone help find out who Sir David Davies siblings were? or any other info on this very well to do family!! Sir David Davies 1792- 1865 Sir Robert Henry Davies 1824 - 1902 Many thanks Cathy N Devon Cathy M Picton Barber Researching Picton - Davies all over the World esp India, NZ, Oz and Singapore