Answering below . . . . Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] JONES haystack Hello Shanna It would definitely be Tumble . You didn't say how old Lettice was when she died. [Shanna Jones] Lettice Jones was 66 years old. Did it also give her maiden name? [Shanna Jones] No maiden name - just Lettice Jones Meanwhile I believe I have them in the 1841 census. 1841 parish of Llannon enumerstion dist 15 "All that part of the parish of Llannon which lies on the north side of the road leading from Cross Hands to Tumble" Page 1 Bank y Tumble John Jones 35 Collier Y Lettice Jones 55 Y Ann Maddox 15 F.S. Y [Shanna Jones] What is F.S.? I wonder if this John Jones is a son and where the husband is? Note in 1841 the ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. Hope helps you a bit - how do you link in to these? [Shanna Jones] Henry Jones is their son, who was married to Mary Davis (but I don't know where or when). They immigrated to Ohio, USA in about 1852-1855? Thanks! Shanna Pat In message <48vi84$12cltgs@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net>, Shanna Jones <shannajones@charter.net> writes >Hello, > >I have narrowed down my JONES haystack just a little. Today I received the >death certificate of Lettice Jones, widow of John JONES. > > >The area of the haystack they are in is called Llannon which I think is a >hundred or a sub-district? The residence is called Bank y Tumble or Bank y >Humble or Bank y Jumble depending on what this letter is, I guess it could >even be Fumble? > > > >The certificate says wife of John Jones Collier so I assume he outlived her. >She died Seventieth November 1848, so I assume they meant 17th of November, >either that or November had a whole lot more days in 1848 than it does now? > > > > >Anyway, I am at a loss as to what to do next. How do you narrow down a John >Jones in Wales? HELP!!! > > > >Thank you, > >Shanna Jones > >shannajones@charter.net > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information >http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > -- Pat Powell

Diana, there is no Williams family in Tanyrodin 1851.....who are you after? Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:58 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] William/Thomas family > Hello Pauline - I have been trying to link up Sarah Thomas in 1851 census > to my William family. I went onto the IGI and found Sarah Thomas (who > never married) born 1795 in Llanelly. I then found the siblings John, > William, Rosannah and Robert. I then looked on the marriages for any of > them marrying a William in Llanelly (thus making Sarah the maiden Aunt who > took over Blaennant fach). There were two women that William c 1813 > could have married - Ann William c 1811 in 11/9/1831 and Mary William c > 1812 in 21/9/1832. I then found the families in the 1861 census. the > best bet for these ones is living at Tanyrodin - a coalminer. On the > 1851 census in Llanelly 2d and 3b which is the right area. Would you have > a look for that. What I was trying to find was any sign of Hannah > William living with the Thomas family or even the Fisher family but no > such luck. > > I have been through the 1851 census index on the cd in the most likely > places and did find one John William that I would be grateful for a look > up please. John William head with Gwenllyan Hopkin stepdaughter. It > is on page 6 Llanelly 3c. > > with grateful thanks for your help yet again > > Diana > > John Thomas c 1794 could have married an Ann William 6/9/1814 or an > Elizabeth William in 29/10/1816. > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hi Diana This cannot be your John Williams as he has a son John William aged 10 sch 64 page 18 2 Cilsaigfach John Williams head 40 blacksmith born Pembrey Margaret Williams wife 46 born Margam Glam Gwenllyan Hopkins stepdau 23 born Llanelly Elizabeth Hopkins stepdau 20 born Llanelly David Williams son 13 sch born Aberavon John Williams son 10 born Aberavon Evan Williams son 4 born Aberavon Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:58 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] William/Thomas family > Hello Pauline - I have been trying to link up Sarah Thomas in 1851 census > to my William family. I went onto the IGI and found Sarah Thomas (who > never married) born 1795 in Llanelly. I then found the siblings John, > William, Rosannah and Robert. I then looked on the marriages for any of > them marrying a William in Llanelly (thus making Sarah the maiden Aunt who > took over Blaennant fach). There were two women that William c 1813 > could have married - Ann William c 1811 in 11/9/1831 and Mary William c > 1812 in 21/9/1832. I then found the families in the 1861 census. the > best bet for these ones is living at Tanyrodin - a coalminer. On the > 1851 census in Llanelly 2d and 3b which is the right area. Would you have > a look for that. What I was trying to find was any sign of Hannah > William living with the Thomas family or even the Fisher family but no > such luck. > > I have been through the 1851 census index on the cd in the most likely > places and did find one John William that I would be grateful for a look > up please. John William head with Gwenllyan Hopkin stepdaughter. It > is on page 6 Llanelly 3c. > > with grateful thanks for your help yet again > > Diana > > John Thomas c 1794 could have married an Ann William 6/9/1814 or an > Elizabeth William in 29/10/1816. > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Morning Pauline - thank you for that one sorry it did not turn out right. What did you think about the Tanyrodin one? I looked again at the 1841 census last night again trying to find Sarah Thomas with a William family. I looked in Westfa and could not find any but I also looked in Llangennech because that was where Sarah Thomas said she came from in the 1861 and 1871 censuses. I found one which I would be grateful for your opinion. Llangennech 5 page 13 William William with Sarah Thomas. If this is not right then I think there must be no connection between the two families unless the Sarah Thomas marrying a John William is correct and she put unmarried on the 1861 rather than widow. One other thing - I know that Thomas has been mistranscribed on the 1851 as Harry at Blaennant fach so I wondered if there were any more like that. I was just wondering if there could have been a John William with a Harry family which in fact should have been Thomas - if I am making sense! Have a good day Diana

Tumble sounds right; it's a district of Llanelli. There is no easy way to narrow down John Jones in Wales. I'm a Jones; I have Jones marrying Jones amongst my grand and great grandparents in Glamorganshire; that is a whole lot worse than it happening in Carmarthenshire! Rhodri -----Original Message----- From: Shanna Jones [mailto:shannajones@charter.net] Sent: 22 July 2005 00:31 To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Cmn-L] JONES haystack Hello, I have narrowed down my JONES haystack just a little. Today I received the death certificate of Lettice Jones, widow of John JONES. The area of the haystack they are in is called Llannon which I think is a hundred or a sub-district? The residence is called Bank y Tumble or Bank y Humble or Bank y Jumble depending on what this letter is, I guess it could even be Fumble? The certificate says wife of John Jones Collier so I assume he outlived her. She died Seventieth November 1848, so I assume they meant 17th of November, either that or November had a whole lot more days in 1848 than it does now? Anyway, I am at a loss as to what to do next. How do you narrow down a John Jones in Wales? HELP!!! Thank you, Shanna Jones shannajones@charter.net ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/53 - Release Date: 20/07/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/53 - Release Date: 20/07/2005 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if this message has not been received by the intended recipient; please delete it from your system and inform: mailmaster@rhod.net thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hello Pauline - I have been trying to link up Sarah Thomas in 1851 census to my William family. I went onto the IGI and found Sarah Thomas (who never married) born 1795 in Llanelly. I then found the siblings John, William, Rosannah and Robert. I then looked on the marriages for any of them marrying a William in Llanelly (thus making Sarah the maiden Aunt who took over Blaennant fach). There were two women that William c 1813 could have married - Ann William c 1811 in 11/9/1831 and Mary William c 1812 in 21/9/1832. I then found the families in the 1861 census. the best bet for these ones is living at Tanyrodin - a coalminer. On the 1851 census in Llanelly 2d and 3b which is the right area. Would you have a look for that. What I was trying to find was any sign of Hannah William living with the Thomas family or even the Fisher family but no such luck. I have been through the 1851 census index on the cd in the most likely places and did find one John William that I would be grateful for a look up please. John William head with Gwenllyan Hopkin stepdaughter. It is on page 6 Llanelly 3c. with grateful thanks for your help yet again Diana John Thomas c 1794 could have married an Ann William 6/9/1814 or an Elizabeth William in 29/10/1816.

Hello, I have narrowed down my JONES haystack just a little. Today I received the death certificate of Lettice Jones, widow of John JONES. The area of the haystack they are in is called Llannon which I think is a hundred or a sub-district? The residence is called Bank y Tumble or Bank y Humble or Bank y Jumble depending on what this letter is, I guess it could even be Fumble? The certificate says wife of John Jones Collier so I assume he outlived her. She died Seventieth November 1848, so I assume they meant 17th of November, either that or November had a whole lot more days in 1848 than it does now? Anyway, I am at a loss as to what to do next. How do you narrow down a John Jones in Wales? HELP!!! Thank you, Shanna Jones shannajones@charter.net

Diana, if you are taking the place of birth in 1861 and 1871 from ancestry.com etc.....remember they do not know of the welsh language so if the word was not clear they could have put what they thought it could be!!! Worth looking at the originals.......Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] Sarah Thomas Blaennant > Hi Pauline - well now you were so right - it was Sarah Thomas and there > was me thinking that yet someone else had taken over Blaennant Vach. She > was there up until 1871. She gave her birth place in 61 as Llangenach > and in 71 as Llangamarch and in 51 as Llanelly. Yet another confused > person! > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > You are requested to have up-to-date Anti-Virus software loaded on your > PC, if your PC becomes infected, you will Automatically be Unsubscribed > from this mailing list >

There are quite a few people who write a good Family "Saga" aren't there covering say half a dozen generations. How they did it without rootsweb heaven only knows! Talkative Grans perhaps! They earn good money too. g diana murray wrote: >Good morning Pauline - I have been having some further fun on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. After you found the families living so close together around Blaennant fach I thought I would look around different centres on the censuses. I found that there seems to be two centres for my family Blaennant and Adulam Row/Twyn areas. The names Hopkin, Harry, Samuel and Fisher seem to be in both centres. I then went on the marriage index and there seem to be alot of William men and women marrying into those families. Would it be too inventive to think that they all seemed to marry each other!? My conclusions were that John W c 1803 ish possibly had siblings who could have been called David , William, Ann, Mary, Ester and Sarah and Margaret. > >What do you think? Perhaps the three families living around Blaennant vach will shed some more light on it. I now am really enjoying this one - it is a real detective story. I wonder if everyone who does genealogy also likes a good detective thriller?! > >best wishes >Diana > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > >

Hello again Pauline - sorry for yet another email. Well I was looking to try and find some connection between my John W and a Sarah Thomas and found one on the family search IGI. It is a marriage between a John William and Sarah Thomas dated 24th September 1818 Now this is a connundrum - did some women not take their husband's name or did he leave her and she resorted back to her maiden name. Help Diana

Hi Pauline - well now you were so right - it was Sarah Thomas and there was me thinking that yet someone else had taken over Blaennant Vach. She was there up until 1871. She gave her birth place in 61 as Llangenach and in 71 as Llangamarch and in 51 as Llanelly. Yet another confused person!

Hello Diana, My greatgrandmother worked at Blaennant fach. Have you a picture of this farm and do you know if it is still there? (Phoebe Evans before marriage) Elwyn - Netherlands. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: diana murray [mailto:littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk] Verzonden: donderdag 21 juli 2005 8:14 Aan: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Onderwerp: [Cmn-L] Blaennant fach and Adulam Row Good morning Pauline - I have been having some further fun on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. After you found the families living so close together around Blaennant fach I thought I would look around different centres on the censuses. I found that there seems to be two centres for my family Blaennant and Adulam Row/Twyn areas. The names Hopkin, Harry, Samuel and Fisher seem to be in both centres. I then went on the marriage index and there seem to be alot of William men and women marrying into those families. Would it be too inventive to think that they all seemed to marry each other!? My conclusions were that John W c 1803 ish possibly had siblings who could have been called David , William, Ann, Mary, Ester and Sarah and Margaret. What do you think? Perhaps the three families living around Blaennant vach will shed some more light on it. I now am really enjoying this one - it is a real detective story. I wonder if everyone who does genealogy also likes a good detective thriller?! best wishes Diana ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk

Hello Elwyn - no I am sorry I do not have a picture of it as yet. I only know that in 1841 my great x 3 grandfather aged 6 was living there with his two sisters. Margaret William aged 15 - 20 (though I think she was 18) along with Hannah aged 8. There are no others at the address on the 1841 - just three children with no parents. The future husbands and wife of the three are living nearby as is the witness on the marriage certificate of Margaret William. This brick has been really difficult. I am having to come at it sideways and backwards as I cannot get any information from parish records as they were at Adulam Chapel and those records are impossible to fathom!! I have been corresponding with Pauline off line mostly because it would have got a bit boring for everyone on the list. This time I thought I would go on line because of the names connected with my William family. No 's' until 1855. Perhaps it would be a good idea to give me your names and see if any tie up with mine. I would be grateful for any information that you have on the farm. with best wishes Diana

Good morning Pauline - I have been having some further fun on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. After you found the families living so close together around Blaennant fach I thought I would look around different centres on the censuses. I found that there seems to be two centres for my family Blaennant and Adulam Row/Twyn areas. The names Hopkin, Harry, Samuel and Fisher seem to be in both centres. I then went on the marriage index and there seem to be alot of William men and women marrying into those families. Would it be too inventive to think that they all seemed to marry each other!? My conclusions were that John W c 1803 ish possibly had siblings who could have been called David , William, Ann, Mary, Ester and Sarah and Margaret. What do you think? Perhaps the three families living around Blaennant vach will shed some more light on it. I now am really enjoying this one - it is a real detective story. I wonder if everyone who does genealogy also likes a good detective thriller?! best wishes Diana

Hi Pauline, Well I'm sorting the Bath Vivians now. They played a wonderful game up there in Llanelly in the bar pretending to be the Lords of Llanelly. I think I shall unsubscribe for now unless I come back for more Boole information which will give me a very clear picture of the life they led in the 1850's-1900s. Loads and loads of information; amazing really. Regards, Gar

Me again, there is another Blaennant fach but that is in the Glyn hamlet of Llanelly, a Davies family is living there... Guess what though.....in Westfa 3c hamlet of Llanelly where the other Blaennant fach is guess who the neighbours on each side are?? one side is Daniel Fisher at Pantyffynon, the other side is David Hopkin collier what do you think? Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:39 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] William/s family > Hello Pauline - another query to add to the others today!! > > I have been tracing the James Lewis at Twyn and they ended up in Merthyr > with him on the railway but no other of my family with them. > > I then went onto the 1841 and 1851 and looked at other nearby pages of the > census and came up with some surprises. > > David Hopkin (1851 with James Lewis) was then in Westfa with family. > > I then saw Blannant Fach Westfa Trinity Chapelry with a Sarah Thomas > living there as housekeeper in 1861. No one else in the household. > > I could not find Blaennant Fach or Blannant Fach on the 1851 only > Blaennant where David Samuel and family were living right near the Fishers > at 3 Pantyffynon and next door but one to David Hopkin (uncle of John > Hopkin husband of Margaret?) at Tyrhitie. They were also there in 1841 > page 11 Westfa 14. Margaret, Hannah and John were on page 9 of Westfa > 14. Interestingly David Hopkin is down as a farmer and collier. > > I am beginning to make sense of the way that the families were all living > near to each other but is it just fantasy! It does seem to make sense to > me but what do you think?? > > Would you be kind enough to see if you could find Blaennant Fach on the > 1851 census - I do not seem to be able to find it and see who is living > there then. > > I have not had the results from the CRO yet but I was told that Blaennant > Fach was a farm. > > Thank you > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hi Pauline - well it cannot get more perfect than that can it. S0.......right address and right family!! Could I have a print out of the two families along with a print out of the ones living at Blaennant fach please. Finally a bit of a break through. Thank you Diana

Diana, in 1851 I have this Westfa Hamlet Llanelly schedule 34 page 9 Sarah Harry 52 potato merchant born Llanelly no-one else in the household......I will go and view the actual image to see who the neighbours were.... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:39 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] William/s family > Hello Pauline - another query to add to the others today!! > > I have been tracing the James Lewis at Twyn and they ended up in Merthyr > with him on the railway but no other of my family with them. > > I then went onto the 1841 and 1851 and looked at other nearby pages of the > census and came up with some surprises. > > David Hopkin (1851 with James Lewis) was then in Westfa with family. > > I then saw Blannant Fach Westfa Trinity Chapelry with a Sarah Thomas > living there as housekeeper in 1861. No one else in the household. > > I could not find Blaennant Fach or Blannant Fach on the 1851 only > Blaennant where David Samuel and family were living right near the Fishers > at 3 Pantyffynon and next door but one to David Hopkin (uncle of John > Hopkin husband of Margaret?) at Tyrhitie. They were also there in 1841 > page 11 Westfa 14. Margaret, Hannah and John were on page 9 of Westfa > 14. Interestingly David Hopkin is down as a farmer and collier. > > I am beginning to make sense of the way that the families were all living > near to each other but is it just fantasy! It does seem to make sense to > me but what do you think?? > > Would you be kind enough to see if you could find Blaennant Fach on the > 1851 census - I do not seem to be able to find it and see who is living > there then. > > I have not had the results from the CRO yet but I was told that Blaennant > Fach was a farm. > > Thank you > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hello Pauline - another query to add to the others today!! I have been tracing the James Lewis at Twyn and they ended up in Merthyr with him on the railway but no other of my family with them. I then went onto the 1841 and 1851 and looked at other nearby pages of the census and came up with some surprises. David Hopkin (1851 with James Lewis) was then in Westfa with family. I then saw Blannant Fach Westfa Trinity Chapelry with a Sarah Thomas living there as housekeeper in 1861. No one else in the household. I could not find Blaennant Fach or Blannant Fach on the 1851 only Blaennant where David Samuel and family were living right near the Fishers at 3 Pantyffynon and next door but one to David Hopkin (uncle of John Hopkin husband of Margaret?) at Tyrhitie. They were also there in 1841 page 11 Westfa 14. Margaret, Hannah and John were on page 9 of Westfa 14. Interestingly David Hopkin is down as a farmer and collier. I am beginning to make sense of the way that the families were all living near to each other but is it just fantasy! It does seem to make sense to me but what do you think?? Would you be kind enough to see if you could find Blaennant Fach on the 1851 census - I do not seem to be able to find it and see who is living there then. I have not had the results from the CRO yet but I was told that Blaennant Fach was a farm. Thank you Diana

Thank you! Yes I've just looked at the Capel picture on Dyfed /Ceredigion chapel photos. Such a pretty valley that. I'll have the time off to go/come have a look too, just 6 miles from the regatta! Elizabeth (international yachtswoman) keeps a large boat down stream in Ceredigion harbour. Regards, Gar That Vivian link is one that hears about in story books Hussey Henry (named after 2nd Hussey Vivian of Truro) John Henry (1st Vivian of Swansea) William Henry* (b1837) All sons of John Henry, one out of wedlock, a union when he was 42, with a woman who lived in or moved to Bath * moved to Llanelly when he was about 24-25 with his wife. I have not checked to see which John Henry it is out of wedlock with but it is an exception to the rule of the devil being in the detail, and let's not mention him at all! Pauline James wrote: > Hi Gareth > > If you want parish register information you will have to view the > parish registers when you visit Ceredigion....there are no available > parish registers on line, the IGI index is not from the parish > registers but from the Bishops Transcripts.......the Newcastle Emlyn > registers though are housed in Carmarthen......although only a few > miles apart the river passing through forms part of the boundary....... > > Will you have time to take off from your sailing trip? > > regards Pauline > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Howell" <gar@garethhowell.net> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:45 PM > Subject: [Cmn-L] Diolch yn fawr Pauline! > > >> Annwyl Pauline, >> >> I am fairly sure that the next place to look is Capelisaf >> Llechryd near St.David's, which is the name place for >> William and Hannah Howell parents of Ebenezer. >> >> But no it is in Cardiganshire and is about 4 miles from Newcastle Emlyn >> and 6 miles from Newquay. >> >> Curious thing is that my cousin who did the research (1924-1995) >> ....... his children live in >> Newcastle Emlyn....... and near Newquay! 200 years and more and >> they have only moved >> four miles!!! You have got to laugh! I'll be there in two weeks >> time for the sailing! >> >> Elizabeth Howell is an international sailor and Richard son of James, >> son of Richard, son of James >> son of Eben, son of William Baptism records 1832 (Capelisaf >> Llechryd; farmer) is at the local primary school >> aged 5 years old and a delightful child, with an absolutely huge >> family on his mother's side. >> They are hoping for a pack of 8!!! >> Are there available records now online before 1800 for the ordinary >> parish? >> I believe that they had been there for many generations, since before >> the great plagues >> so perhaps there is not much point. >> >> Richard 2000 James 1980 Richard 1925 James 1870 Eben 1832 William >> 1801 all these approx >> Direct line of a 5 year old Cardiganshire child today; two >> surgeons/physicians among their number, >> as there are two other surgeons named Howell in that area in the >> records I have gone over. >> >> Hwyl, >> Gareth Hughes Howell >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you > cannot find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the > name of the Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database > > >