Hi. How complete are the parish registers for Llanelly? The Bishop's Transcripts are available from LDS, but there is a gap in christenings from 1855 to 1862. Of course I need 1859. The problem is that no father is listed on the birth certificate for my great grandmother that I got the other day. Her parents married 2 years after her birth. I hoped to find a father's name listed in the baptismal records, but there are none. Any suggestions? Her name was Edith HULIN, mother's name Charlotte HULIN, born 10 July 1859. Tom Price

Diana & listers Whooo! There you could be treading on my Williams family - on my mother's side. I have not definitively traced them back further than the 1881 census - one of the jobs in the pending file! My grandmother Mary Williams (aged 2) was in Tyrbach St. Ishmael with her parents John & Rachel Williams in the 1891 census. John Williams (aged 14) was in Treforisfach, St. Ishmael in the 1881 census with his parents David & Jane Williams. Where was William Williams in the 1851 census? Tommy -----Neges Wreiddiol-----/-----Original Message----- Oddi wrth/From: diana murray [mailto:littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk] Anfonwyd/Sent: 23 July 2005 15:34 At/To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Pwnc/Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] William/Thomas family All things are possible! I found an 18 year old William William on the 1851 census but I can't remember why I discounted it at St Ishmael Llangederine 1 page 6c. Is it the same household? Diana ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

Hi Diana On our marriage index the church is always the parish church listed, at that time Llanelli only had St Elli Llanelly parish church........pre 1837 everyone had to marry in the parish church you could not marry anywhere else..... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] Mary Banks/Mary Williams > Hello Pauline - I found Mary Banks on the 1861 census at Brun Coch > Berwick. She gave her birth place as Durham. Father William Banks aged > 55 from Llandilo Talybont and mother Mary aged 48. with other children. > No place of birth for Mary. I then looked at the marriages on the cd > and found a William Banks marrying an Ann Williams in Llanelli 27/5/1835. > It is the only Banks on the marriages that I cound around the right time. > Could you have a look at that marriage to see if it gives a church > please. Have you struck gold I ask myself! I could not find the > family in 1871. > > best wishes > diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hello Pauline - it is raining here - the first time for us in Sussex for a long time. Very welcome! I have been through all the marriages for a Mary Banks marrying a William or Williams and cannot find one. The only one I have is the William Banks with Ann Williams in Llanelli 27/5/1835. Do you think that this one could be a possibility? Also how far away is Blaennant from the area that Ann was in please? best wishes Diana

Hello Pauline - I found Mary Banks on the 1861 census at Brun Coch Berwick. She gave her birth place as Durham. Father William Banks aged 55 from Llandilo Talybont and mother Mary aged 48. with other children. No place of birth for Mary. I then looked at the marriages on the cd and found a William Banks marrying an Ann Williams in Llanelli 27/5/1835. It is the only Banks on the marriages that I cound around the right time. Could you have a look at that marriage to see if it gives a church please. Have you struck gold I ask myself! I could not find the family in 1871. best wishes diana

Hi Pauline - I am hoping that I will find out the death of JW senior very soon and that I hope will make things clearer. That one with Mary looks good I will try to see where Mary Banks fits in - a better name to try to follow. best wishes and thanks Diana

Diana, I have been looking at the marriage prior to 1823 to try to match anything up.....candidates were Margaret, Catherine Mary and Jane.....I went to 1851 to find any of those who were a widow none stood out, how about this one.....although do not know who the niece is.... 140 page 38 dist 1g hamlet hengoed Old Road Mary Williams head wid 60 labs widow born St ishmaels Mary Banks niece 13 scholar born Llanelly none of the others fitted unless the mother was deceased too..... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] William/Thomas family > Hello Pauline - thanks for the email Sarah Thomas was 60 in the 1861 > census and still living in Blaennant. In the 1871 census she was 70 so > she should be 50 in the 1851 and 40 or so in the 1841 censuses. I went > through the 1841 and the only one I could find was with a William Williams > in Llangennach 5 page 13. > > I hope this will not be so vital when you see my other emails!! > > Diana > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

All things are possible! I found an 18 year old William William on the 1851 census but I can't remember why I discounted it at St Ishmael Llangederine 1 page 6c. Is it the same household? Diana

Pauline..Thanks, you sent me this some time back. Am really interested in the James,Jones,Evans, Lewis , Armstrong ,Theophilus families of Llanfair but have no further clues to add to these surnames. Still trying to find out where Wm.William(s) born ca.1802 came from. He was a lead miner by trade.Sometimes folks fall off the radar screen when they emmigrate to another country as do those who remain in their native Wales. If I ever get a hit I could supply volumes of info. on the kin who came to the US and we could solve some mutual brick walls. Regards. Bill Williams

Can somebody help me with the following. Am trying to trace to relatives who moved to SA. One John Henry Roberts and his wife Anne Morris near June 1911. Second his unmarried brother David J Roberts. I am told that they were in Pretoria SA, but no results up to now. J.H.Roberts seems to have died there and his widow Anne Roberts came back to live in Cardiff after his death. The couple seemed to have two children, who stayed in SA. Could they have left from Southampton for SA?? Elwyn - Netherlands.

Hi Bill In 1851 Rachel only had 6 of her children living with her....you probably have this but... 1851 Llanfairarybryn enu dist 4b sch 88 Pendwyn Rachel Williams head wid 40 annuitant born Llanfairarybryn Morgan son 19 leadminer Mary dau 17 dressmaker Daniel son 15 leadminer Catherine dau 12 scholar William son 10 scholar John son 8 scholar all born Llanfairarybryn Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <Taffywilliam@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:04 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] Re:ARMSTRONG,EVANS,JAMES, JONES,LEWIS,THEOPHILUS,WILLIAMS > Williams all born in Llanfairarbryn.Father Wm. William(s) b.1802 not of > the > county. Mother Rachel James b.1811 of the county.Wed Wm. 8-23-1828 in > Llanfair > ar bryn. Son morgan B. Williams b,1832 married Catherine b. ca.1836, > daughter of Joshua and Mary Armstrong Jones of Rhandirmwyn. Daughter > Catherine b. > 1839 married Daniel Evans in Llanfair ca.1850. Daughter Mary b.1834 still > living in Wales in 1904, married name Lewis. Son John b. 1844 and not > living in > 1887 with no record he ever came to US. Wm. Williams died in 1847 and > Rachel > remarried sometime after 1851 to a Wm. Theophilus of the area. They had > one son > of her second marriage ,Timothy b. 11-17-1853. With the exception of John > and Mary, Morgan,Daniel,Wm.Catherine all came to US in latter 1880s. > Rachel > came to US in 1882. Rachel died in 1887 and had a surviving sister living > in > England. Her obituary listed her as the mother of 9 children but we can > only > account for 7. Hope my adding these additional surnames might ring a few > bells. > Thanks Bill > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hi Diana I have forgotten now how old Sarah Thomas should be in 1851.....I have a Sarah Thomas living in Llangennech in 1851 aged 62 with her married daughter Margaret now a Davies and husband......could that be the same one who was there in 1841? Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] William/Thomas family > Hi Pauline - I could only find one Sarah Thomas in the 1841 and she was in > Llangennech > with a William William Llangennech 5 page 13. On the 1861 and 1871 she > said she was > from Llangennech. There was nothing in Llanelly of the right age. > > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hello Pauline - thanks for the email Sarah Thomas was 60 in the 1861 census and still living in Blaennant. In the 1871 census she was 70 so she should be 50 in the 1851 and 40 or so in the 1841 censuses. I went through the 1841 and the only one I could find was with a William Williams in Llangennach 5 page 13. I hope this will not be so vital when you see my other emails!! Diana

Hello Pauline - I have been on the family search IGI again this morning looking around after what I had found last night and I think I have found the parents of William William born Blannant who was living in Adulam Row in 1851 and 1861. They are William Williams definately and I think the mother was Elizabeth - it is often hard to tell on that IGI which person goes with which. with very best wishes Diana

Hi Diana Have you found her in 1841 ?? In 1851 the column for married single or widow was left blank......Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] William/Thomas family > Hello Pauline - sorry I am being confusing. My thoughts were this. > > 1. I found a marriage of John William with Sarah Thomas dated 24th > September > 1818. On the 1861 census it says she was unmarried at Blaennant fach. > The > same on the 1871. Now is this correct or is it a mistake?? > > > 2. My next thought was if that marriage is incorrect then I was > trying to tie up Sarah Thomas who was at Blaennant fach in > 1851 with the > William family. I went on to family search IGI and found the family > of > Sarah Thomas who had brothers William bapt 1813 Robert bapt 1813 and > John > bapt 1796 with parents John Thomas and Rosannah. I then looked for a > Thomas with one of the right christian names marrying a William. I found > a > few in Llanelly. The one that looked the most promising was a John > Thomas > marrying a Ann William in Llanelly 6th September 1814. This made Sarah > Thomas a maiden aunt. I then found this THOMAS family at Tanyrodin > Llanelly 2d and 3b on the 1851 index and 1861 census. This John Thomas > was a coalminer in 1861 and it is the right area and I wondered what you > thought of my thoughts! > > Of course all of this does not immediately help me find John Williams > senior > unless Sarah Thomas of Blaennant Vach in the 1851/61/71 census is actually > the father of JW 1835. If however the John Thomas who is the brother of > Sarah Thomas married Ann William then I may hopefully have a sister of > John W 1803 ish. > > Sorry this e mail has gone a bit to say the least. > > Thanks > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hi Pauline - I could only find one Sarah Thomas in the 1841 and she was in Llangennech with a William William Llangennech 5 page 13. On the 1861 and 1871 she said she was from Llangennech. There was nothing in Llanelly of the right age. Diana

Hello Pauline - sorry I am being confusing. My thoughts were this. 1. I found a marriage of John William with Sarah Thomas dated 24th September 1818. On the 1861 census it says she was unmarried at Blaennant fach. The same on the 1871. Now is this correct or is it a mistake?? 2. My next thought was if that marriage is incorrect then I was trying to tie up Sarah Thomas who was at Blaennant fach in 1851 with the William family. I went on to family search IGI and found the family of Sarah Thomas who had brothers William bapt 1813 Robert bapt 1813 and John bapt 1796 with parents John Thomas and Rosannah. I then looked for a Thomas with one of the right christian names marrying a William. I found a few in Llanelly. The one that looked the most promising was a John Thomas marrying a Ann William in Llanelly 6th September 1814. This made Sarah Thomas a maiden aunt. I then found this THOMAS family at Tanyrodin Llanelly 2d and 3b on the 1851 index and 1861 census. This John Thomas was a coalminer in 1861 and it is the right area and I wondered what you thought of my thoughts! Of course all of this does not immediately help me find John Williams senior unless Sarah Thomas of Blaennant Vach in the 1851/61/71 census is actually the father of JW 1835. If however the John Thomas who is the brother of Sarah Thomas married Ann William then I may hopefully have a sister of John W 1803 ish. Sorry this e mail has gone a bit to say the least. Thanks Diana

Hello Shanna It would definitely be Tumble . You didn't say how old Lettice was when she died. Did it also give her maiden name? Meanwhile I believe I have them in the 1841 census. 1841 parish of Llannon enumerstion dist 15 "All that part of the parish of Llannon which lies on the north side of the road leading from Cross Hands to Tumble" Page 1 Bank y Tumble John Jones 35 Collier Y Lettice Jones 55 Y Ann Maddox 15 F.S. Y Note in 1841 the ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. Hope helps you a bit - how do you link in to these? Pat In message <48vi84$12cltgs@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net>, Shanna Jones <shannajones@charter.net> writes >Hello, > >I have narrowed down my JONES haystack just a little. Today I received the >death certificate of Lettice Jones, widow of John JONES. > > >The area of the haystack they are in is called Llannon which I think is a >hundred or a sub-district? The residence is called Bank y Tumble or Bank y >Humble or Bank y Jumble depending on what this letter is, I guess it could >even be Fumble? > > > >The certificate says wife of John Jones Collier so I assume he outlived her. >She died Seventieth November 1848, so I assume they meant 17th of November, >either that or November had a whole lot more days in 1848 than it does now? > > > > >Anyway, I am at a loss as to what to do next. How do you narrow down a John >Jones in Wales? HELP!!! > > > >Thank you, > >Shanna Jones > >shannajones@charter.net > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information >http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > -- Pat Powell

Hi Pat, Thank you very much. None of those listed would seem to have any connection with my family . I know from a letter by Charles, written in 1889, that his father Thomas died "when I was not yet eight " Charles was born abt 1819/1820, which means his father died abt 1827/28 and a cousin has found a headstone outside St Tudors Church, Mynyddislwyn, which he mentions was outside the church, because his father could not be buried inside the church due to law change prohibiting such burials. He goes on; "after my father died my mother - worst luck -remarried and we were sent to a private boarding school" According to Charles his family was very well off and were large landowners in Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, which I have verified. They also had connections to the Llanover Estate (Lady Llanofer). From other information it seems Charles was born in Newport, Mon. My problem is that an older cousin- in -law ( a generation before me and deceased) did some research on the family connections, a copy of which I've only just received, and it is she who came up with this quite specific information about these cottages and dates etc., and I'm duty bound to try to verify it before including it in or omitting it from the family history. This information is so specific as to encourage the view she'd may have obtained it from Charles' second daughter or one of her children/descendants. Her work is unsourced but by and large accurate. Some of the inaccuracies may be attributed to the lack of B, D & M indexes and other reference material available at the time she was writing her istory - 1970's I imagine it would be difficult to locate these cottages let alone who lived in them about the 1820's, but I am compelled to try. I'm most grateful for your help. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Powell" <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] EDMUNDS/EDMONDS > Hello Ray > > These are all the households in the 1841 census for Laugharne that have > an Edmund/Edmond shown. > > I hope this will give you a start to your researches. > > By the way do you know if the Newport you mentioned was the Newport in > Monmouthshire or the Newport in Pembrokeshire? > > Cheers > > Pat > > > > 1841 census: Laugharne > > > Llangrow > James Edmond 45 Ag Lab Y > Mary Edmond 55 Y > > Coalpit Inn > Hannah Edmond 45 Publican Y > Zechariah Watts 80 Y > Anne Watts 65 Y > > Broadmoor > Benjamin Edmond 40 Ag Lab Y > Bathsheba Edmond 45 Y > James Edmond 7 Y > David Edmond 4 Y > > Springmead > Benjamin Harry 65 Ag Lab Y > Margaret Harry 55 Y > John Edmond 5 Y > > Hangman Street > Evan Edmond 40 Shopkeeper Y > Ann Edmond 45 Y > > > Criswell > Richard Evans 55 Farmer Y > Elizabeth Evans 55 Y > John Evans 25 Y > Elizabeth Lodwig 15 F.S. Y > Sarah Edmond 15 F.S. Y > > > In message <000401c58b56$b2c79600$01021ad3@oemcomputer>, Ray Edmunds > <Wattle@iprimus.com.au> writes > >Hi, > >I'm new to the list and live in Queensland, Australia. Access to data about > >people and places in Carmarthenshire is very limited and I hope listers may be > >able to help me trace my Welsh ancestors. > >According to information recently obtained Margaret and Thomas EDMUNDS resided > >in 'Lakes Cottage', Laugharne, Carmarthenshire about 1820 when my > >g,g,grandfather Charles EDMUNDS was born. His brother James Thomas EDMUNDS was > >born about 1824 at ' The Butts' at Laugharne. I believe there was an elder > >brother Edmund but have no information on him other than he resided in Newport > >in the 1840's. It was said he was a Miller and Merchant and I do know he had a > >business supplying goods to miners > >I hope someone can help me with information about this family. > >Thank you > > > > > > > >Ray Edmunds > > > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >You are requested to have up-to-date Anti-Virus software loaded on your > >PC, if your PC becomes infected, you will Automatically be Unsubscribed from > >this mailing list > > > > -- > Pat Powell > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 > >

Williams all born in Llanfairarbryn.Father Wm. William(s) b.1802 not of the county. Mother Rachel James b.1811 of the county.Wed Wm. 8-23-1828 in Llanfair ar bryn. Son morgan B. Williams b,1832 married Catherine b. ca.1836, daughter of Joshua and Mary Armstrong Jones of Rhandirmwyn. Daughter Catherine b. 1839 married Daniel Evans in Llanfair ca.1850. Daughter Mary b.1834 still living in Wales in 1904, married name Lewis. Son John b. 1844 and not living in 1887 with no record he ever came to US. Wm. Williams died in 1847 and Rachel remarried sometime after 1851 to a Wm. Theophilus of the area. They had one son of her second marriage ,Timothy b. 11-17-1853. With the exception of John and Mary, Morgan,Daniel,Wm.Catherine all came to US in latter 1880s. Rachel came to US in 1882. Rachel died in 1887 and had a surviving sister living in England. Her obituary listed her as the mother of 9 children but we can only account for 7. Hope my adding these additional surnames might ring a few bells. Thanks Bill