Of course - silly me!! I need to find out how I can split the page so that I can have the cd and the template up together. I will ask my son. I print off all your emails as well as mine now as I found I was asking you things twice and I apologise for that in the past. I do however have a huge pile of papers now!! I am trying now to write down a plan of where and who everyone I think is. Now you know me I can come up with some very creative ancestry so I hope it is ok that when I have got my head around it all I will email it to you and you can tell me what you think is fact or fiction!! Hope this is ok with you. best wishes Diana

Testing only. Glyn Auckland NZ

Hello Pauline - I do not think I could survive nowadays in those temperatures without aircon. Having said that when we lived in Malaysia it was about 35 degrees and 98% humidity every day of the year and we did not have aircon! Thank you for the information on Adulam - I had just gone on the date on the front of the chapel. So it is not going to be as easy as I thought!! who would have guessed! I like the Mary Griffith marriage with Wm Wm 1803 very much as I have a Richard Griffith as witness on the William/ Hopkin marriage. Does it say where Mary Griffith and William William came from. I have not found Richard Griffith in any census. I will look again at the 1851 and 1841 censuses on this one. That would tie up with the one you found in the 1851 with a Mary William living with Mary Banks at Old Road Llanelli. 140 page 38 dist 1g hamlet hengoed. This was the one I could not find on the 1841 census if you have an index that would help. I found a William Banks marrying an Ann William in Llanelli 27/5/1835. I have them with daughter Mary and others in the 1861 census. I need to research this further on the 1851 and 1841 censuses and will get back to you. My brain is a bit fuddled - I need to write all this down on paper and try to sort it all out and see what I have!! best wishes Diana

Diana, the population of Llanelly around 1800 was about 500 living in the town itself, but 3 to 4000 living in the parish.......I shall have to dig out my information.... One writer in a book stated that Llanelly was full of dirty miners and sailors at the turn of the century........Strange enough in all of my family history I do not have one miner.......farmers, coppermen and sailors but no miners..... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] William/s family > Hi Pauline -I am so sorry to give you all this work for me and just to > add yet another email and many questions to add to all the others!! > Would you agree that it looks like the siblings of John William/s 1803 ish > give or take a bit could be Ann, Mary Margaret , William and > possibly Hannah and that in all probability the IGI entry cannot be pure > fantasy and that John Williams 1803 ish's father was perhaps William > Williams. As I know that I am never going to be able to prove all of this > without the Adulam records and/or someone coming up with an old book about > it!! I wondered if you would look up a marriage for me (I hope you have > the records going back pre 1812) between a William William and anyone > with my family names about 1790 to 1806. My thought is that there were > not that many people living in Llanelli then (before coal etc) . Going on > all the circumstantial evidence so far the first centre for the William > family along with the Fisher , Hopkin , Samuel! > families. They all then seemed to move to Adulam area. Where were > they before Blaennant (rhetorical question) ? I am happy with this - do > you agree? > Is Blaennant now an area of Llanelli where as once it was a farm? On the > 1841 there is a Blaennant and a Blaennat Fach - do you know what the > difference is? > > Do you know how I can contact the LDS people who put the information in > about William William 1806 s/o William William? I could then write to > them and ask how they found the information. > > I found a marriage between a Hannah Robert and John William dated 26th > January 1822 - what do you think? I cannot find them on the 1861 census. > > Did you have any thoughts on the marriage between Sarah Thomas and John > Williams on the 24th September 1818? > > > On the IGI I also found a John William born 1790 Kidwelly (Daniel Fisher > came from Kidwelly) with parents Mr. William and Betty (Elizabeth?) > Harry. Is that one a figment of IGI's imagination??!! > > Sorry to have gone on so. > > with many thanks for your patience and help > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >

Diana, here is the information on Adulam so that you know when it opened etc.... Adulam Baptists Cause began: earlier than 1660; embodied 1733 Chapels: 1709 with burial ground, enlarged 1804; 1840 Location: Felinfoel, Llanelly parish Branch of: Ilston near Swansea originally, then Bethlehem, Swansea until 1733. Periods of growth: 1733, 50-60 members; 1794, 140; 1830, about 400; 1840, 270;. The decrease between 1830-40 was the result of numerous branches separating from this church. Records available: 1783-1819, PRO London, RG4/3821, (GS82811) 2. records 1709-1954, includes church register, 1767-1871; register of members, accounts and statements. 1863-1933, minute books, 1851-1954, of church meetings and title deeds and documents, 1709-22 NLW Manuscripts (12 volumes) . We know they have these records but as David Cooke CRO and myself have stated they are in such a jumble it is very difficult to work them out. Back to the IGI, when a relative has inputted the information he is just guessing.......they know they should be there around a certain time, but no records exist for them......so cannot prove or know anything. With an easier name than John Williams you can locate them, as with my Griffith Harvey, he was not baptised but I knew who the father was from the marriage cert (Griffith Harvey) and they were the only Harvey family in Llanelly and also hailed from St Ishmaels living there.....so could follow backwards. I looked for Wm Wm's marriages Llanelly only otherwise there are 100's of them ....... 1795 to Joyce Samuel 1803 to Anne Lewis 1803 to Mary Griffith 1805 to Catherine Phillip 1805 to Catherine William 1805 to Mary James Llanelly only....... With Blaennant and Blaennant fach......fach in welsh means small in english, so it was a smaller farm or holding than Blaennant.... Have you ever sent an email to Peter Whil he has a database of farm names places etc that he has extracted from CRO.....his email address is on tag lines below messages....... I will get back to you on your other questions..... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] William/s family > Hi Pauline -I am so sorry to give you all this work for me and just to > add yet another email and many questions to add to all the others!! > Would you agree that it looks like the siblings of John William/s 1803 ish > give or take a bit could be Ann, Mary Margaret , William and > possibly Hannah and that in all probability the IGI entry cannot be pure > fantasy and that John Williams 1803 ish's father was perhaps William > Williams. As I know that I am never going to be able to prove all of this > without the Adulam records and/or someone coming up with an old book about > it!! I wondered if you would look up a marriage for me (I hope you have > the records going back pre 1812) between a William William and anyone > with my family names about 1790 to 1806. My thought is that there were > not that many people living in Llanelli then (before coal etc) . Going on > all the circumstantial evidence so far the first centre for the William > family along with the Fisher , Hopkin , Samuel! > families. They all then seemed to move to Adulam area. Where were > they before Blaennant (rhetorical question) ? I am happy with this - do > you agree? > Is Blaennant now an area of Llanelli where as once it was a farm? On the > 1841 there is a Blaennant and a Blaennat Fach - do you know what the > difference is? > > Do you know how I can contact the LDS people who put the information in > about William William 1806 s/o William William? I could then write to > them and ask how they found the information. > > I found a marriage between a Hannah Robert and John William dated 26th > January 1822 - what do you think? I cannot find them on the 1861 census. > > Did you have any thoughts on the marriage between Sarah Thomas and John > Williams on the 24th September 1818? > > > On the IGI I also found a John William born 1790 Kidwelly (Daniel Fisher > came from Kidwelly) with parents Mr. William and Betty (Elizabeth?) > Harry. Is that one a figment of IGI's imagination??!! > > Sorry to have gone on so. > > with many thanks for your patience and help > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >

Hello Elwyn - I hope all is well with you and not too much rain!! I have been giving alot of thought about the families since my last off line email to you. I have just written a very long email to Pauline which may help you - especially the possible marriage I found of Hannah Robert with John William - what do you think?? You said that your Phoebe Roberts was with the Samuel family - I am sure my family is tied up with them as well but I haven't yet found the link. Do you have Fisher Hopkin/s ir Griffiths in your family? Were your family in the Adulam Row area and were they at Adulam Chapel after 1851. I reckon if I can get back with circumstantial evidence before 1790 when I think the chapel started then it should be a doddle because they will have been in the church records!!!!! Let me know what you think of the above best wishes Diana

Hi Pauline -I am so sorry to give you all this work for me and just to add yet another email and many questions to add to all the others!! Would you agree that it looks like the siblings of John William/s 1803 ish give or take a bit could be Ann, Mary Margaret , William and possibly Hannah and that in all probability the IGI entry cannot be pure fantasy and that John Williams 1803 ish's father was perhaps William Williams. As I know that I am never going to be able to prove all of this without the Adulam records and/or someone coming up with an old book about it!! I wondered if you would look up a marriage for me (I hope you have the records going back pre 1812) between a William William and anyone with my family names about 1790 to 1806. My thought is that there were not that many people living in Llanelli then (before coal etc) . Going on all the circumstantial evidence so far the first centre for the William family along with the Fisher , Hopkin , Samuel! families. They all then seemed to move to Adulam area. Where were they before Blaennant (rhetorical question) ? I am happy with this - do you agree? Is Blaennant now an area of Llanelli where as once it was a farm? On the 1841 there is a Blaennant and a Blaennat Fach - do you know what the difference is? Do you know how I can contact the LDS people who put the information in about William William 1806 s/o William William? I could then write to them and ask how they found the information. I found a marriage between a Hannah Robert and John William dated 26th January 1822 - what do you think? I cannot find them on the 1861 census. Did you have any thoughts on the marriage between Sarah Thomas and John Williams on the 24th September 1818? On the IGI I also found a John William born 1790 Kidwelly (Daniel Fisher came from Kidwelly) with parents Mr. William and Betty (Elizabeth?) Harry. Is that one a figment of IGI's imagination??!! Sorry to have gone on so. with many thanks for your patience and help Diana

Bill He is already on my accept list, and he is subscribed......he is not sending in MIME format is he.....check out what he is doing... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <Taffywilliam@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] Testing for a for DOWN UNDER FRIEND > Glyn of New Zealand has repeatedly tried to post to no avail.I read him > loud and clear. He needs our help. _glyn.w@xtra.co.nz_ > (mailto:glyn.w@xtra.co.nz) > . Thanks Bill > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hi Bill What kind of email address does he have......I have to add each subscriber to the accept list... Can he read the messages? Tell him to try to contact me direct .. Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <Taffywilliam@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Testing for Glyn in New Zealand > Pauline ...Glyn of New Zealand has contacted me. He has repeatedly tried > to > post on Cmm-L but is not getting thru. Suggested he contact you at off > line > address..Let me know if I can serve as a relay..Bill Williams > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hi Pauline, Glyn might be trying to send in HTML in stead of plain text. Richard of Royal Oak Richard W.Thomas 814 Forestdale Road Royal Oak,Michigan 48067 USA Thomas,Badgerow,Ferrier,Stock,Bevins,Ferguson Czokoly,Vincze,Kovach,Hess,Younglove http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/t/h/o/Richard-William-Thomas-MI/index.html rthomas109464@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Testing for a for DOWN UNDER FRIEND > Bill > > He is already on my accept list, and he is subscribed......he is not sending in MIME format is he.....check out what he is > doing... > > Pauline > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Taffywilliam@aol.com> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:54 PM > Subject: [Cmn-L] Testing for a for DOWN UNDER FRIEND > > >> Glyn of New Zealand has repeatedly tried to post to no avail.I read him >> loud and clear. He needs our help. _glyn.w@xtra.co.nz_ (mailto:glyn.w@xtra.co.nz) >> . Thanks Bill >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information >> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >> > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 07/25/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 07/25/2005

Hi Pauline. Thanks for the website for the Carmarthenshire Record Office. No, Charlotte and Edith Hulin were not in Llanelly in 1861. By the Census, Charlotte had married and she, hubby and Edith were in Llanwonno, Glam. In 1871 they were in Blaina, 1881 in Mynnyddyslwyn (SP?) and a month after the Census in the U.S. I have found them on all of the Censuses. I will try the record office. LDS has films of nonconformist, but they all stop at 1837. Tom Price

Pauline..This is a duplication but also further testing. His address is _glyn.w@xtra.co.nz...Thanks_ (mailto:glyn.w@xtra.co.nz...Thanks) for your response...Bill

Glyn of New Zealand has repeatedly tried to post to no avail.I read him loud and clear. He needs our help. _glyn.w@xtra.co.nz_ (mailto:glyn.w@xtra.co.nz) . Thanks Bill

Pauline ...Glyn of New Zealand has contacted me. He has repeatedly tried to post on Cmm-L but is not getting thru. Suggested he contact you at off line address..Let me know if I can serve as a relay..Bill Williams

Hi Tom Baptisms for St Elli Llanelly parish church are housed in the CRO Carmarthen, you could request a look-up. I have only indexed that parish to 1833 for the baptisms, I believe there is no gap in the actual parish registers between 1855-1862...Were they of the parish church do you know? There were quite a few non-conformist chapels in Llanelly at that time.....Have you found them in Llanelly 1861? The email address for CRO is archives@carmarthenshire.gov.uk Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Price" <dvmathtchr@yahoo.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:35 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] Finding baptismal records > Hi. How complete are the parish registers for Llanelly? The Bishop's > Transcripts are available from LDS, but there is a gap in christenings > from 1855 to 1862. Of course I need 1859. The problem is that no father > is listed on the birth certificate for my great grandmother that I got the > other day. Her parents married 2 years after her birth. I hoped to find > a father's name listed in the baptismal records, but there are none. Any > suggestions? Her name was Edith HULIN, mother's name Charlotte HULIN, > born 10 July 1859. > > Tom Price > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hello My husband has 1 or 2 Treharne's in his family tree. It is my understanding that a large group of Welsh families came over to Canada. They seem to have become farmers no matter what their previous occupations were. Some of the other surnames are Daniel, Mathews and Hughes. Hughes is my husband's main family. Thomas Daniel I believe was a prominent Baptist minister. Where they settled in Canada was known as a Welsh settlement in East Williams, Middlesex, Ontario and areas close to this. One of the cemeteries in use was named Denfield. I have some more information, if anyone is interested. Barb -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005

----- Original Message ----- From: "Joanne Kelly" <jwkelly@insightbb.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:11 AM Subject: Treharnes and Walters about 1830 >I am taking up the investigation of these families after ignoring them for >several years. Thomas and Mary Treharne and their 11 children left >Llanelli for Canada in 1832. Along with them went David Walters, husband >of their daughter Ann. According to family records, the family departed >from Swansea but I don't know the exact date or the name of the ship. Are >there passenger lists for departing ships from Swansea at that time? > > David Walters [b:1810 in Carmarthenshire] left behind his father Thomas > [b:1762 or 3 Llanelli] who appears on the 1833 Llanelli register of > electors as follows: 1296 Walters, Thomas - Cumllethrydfawr, in this > parish - Lease of farm In this parish, - Westfa hamlet > At some point Thomas joined his son and family in Canada for he died there > in 1843. This would lead me to believe he was a farmer, but weren't most > men at that time employed in the mines? > > Thomas Treharne [b: 1789 Llangendierne] was the son of John Treharne [b: > 1751 Llangendierne] who lived at Glynsyllen, Llanelly but is buried in > the parish churchyard at Llangendierne. I think Glynsyllen may have been > the name of his house, but I don't know that for sure. > > Does any of the above sound familiar to anyone on the list? All I have is > names and dates on these families, and I would like to fill in some > background information about them, their occupations, what sort of places > they lived etc. I believe they were Baptists for they joined a Welsh > speaking Baptist church in Canada. Can someone suggest a source for > information on the economic and social conditions of about 1830? I'd like > to know what prompted their departure for the wilderness of Ontario, > Canada. > > Any assistance or hints would certainly be welcomed. > > Joanne Kelly > > >

Hello, I too have Joneses marrying Joneses. Do you have the marriage certificate of Lettice and John. That would give you both of their fathers' names which might help, unless his father was John too! Peg Horn in Toronto

Diana & all Can not see any connections at the moment, but as I said I have not really got that far back with this Williams family. Will keep a copy of this e-mail so that when I get more information I can check up on any connections. Thanks Tommy -----Neges Wreiddiol-----/-----Original Message----- Oddi wrth/From: diana murray [mailto:littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk] Anfonwyd/Sent: 24 July 2005 19:43 At/To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Pwnc/Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] William/Thomas family Hello Tommy - the definate in my maiden name is as follows:- 1855 John Williams c 1835 Adulam Row Felinfoel marries Margaret Davies at Adulam Chapel the children are John (my direct family) Ann and Catherine. 1866 John Williams c 1835 dies in the presence of Daniel Davies father of Margaret. 1851 census John Williams c 1835 living in Caerfelin Row with sister Margaret Hopkin c 1823 and John Hopkin with their children. 1841 census Margaret c 1823, Hannah c 1833 and John c 1835 all living at Blaennant with no sign of any parents. Nearby are living the Fisher, Hopkin, and Samuel families. Also nearby there is a Banks family. It is that family that has a possible but totally unproved connection with my William/s family. William Banks married Ann William in Llanelli 27/5/1835 and could possibly be the sister of Mary William born St. Ishmael c 1791 living in 1851 in Old Road Hengoed hamlet Llanelli. These women - Mary and Ann are possibly the sisters of my John William c 1835's father also called John William born c 1803 ish give or take a bit! Do you see any connections? Blaennant fach and surrounding area seems to be the key. with best wishes Diana ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

Hello Tommy - the definate in my maiden name is as follows:- 1855 John Williams c 1835 Adulam Row Felinfoel marries Margaret Davies at Adulam Chapel the children are John (my direct family) Ann and Catherine. 1866 John Williams c 1835 dies in the presence of Daniel Davies father of Margaret. 1851 census John Williams c 1835 living in Caerfelin Row with sister Margaret Hopkin c 1823 and John Hopkin with their children. 1841 census Margaret c 1823, Hannah c 1833 and John c 1835 all living at Blaennant with no sign of any parents. Nearby are living the Fisher, Hopkin, and Samuel families. Also nearby there is a Banks family. It is that family that has a possible but totally unproved connection with my William/s family. William Banks married Ann William in Llanelli 27/5/1835 and could possibly be the sister of Mary William born St. Ishmael c 1791 living in 1851 in Old Road Hengoed hamlet Llanelli. These women - Mary and Ann are possibly the sisters of my John William c 1835's father also called John William born c 1803 ish give or take a bit! Do you see any connections? Blaennant fach and surrounding area seems to be the key. with best wishes Diana