Hi Pat I am going to Pembrokeshire Record Office in September and will obtain the abstract for you if Sue has not managed to get to Carmarthen before then. Bye for now Joy

Hi Pauline Have been trying to contact you. Have had a few problems with the internet, hopefully you might have received an E-mail from me. Regards Sue Member 4204 -----Original Message----- From: susan holmes [mailto:susan@holmes65.fslife.co.uk] Sent: 27 July 2005 20:51 To: paulinejames@carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk Subject: RE: [CmnFHS] Indexing Hi Pauline Not sure which E-mail address to use to contact you on the above. Regards Sue member 4204 -----Original Message----- From: Sue Holmes [mailto:susan@holmes65.fslife.co.uk] Sent: 25 July 2005 21:33 To: paulinejames@onvol.net Subject: FW: [CmnFHS] Indexing Hi Pauline Not sure if you received my last E-mail regarding your E-mail on 16th. Regards Sue 4204 -----Original Message----- From: Sue Holmes [mailto:susan@holmes65.fslife.co.uk] Sent: 18 July 2005 19:43 To: 'Pauline James' Subject: RE: [CmnFHS] Indexing Hi Pauline I have MS Excel almost right up to date - have used split screens might need reminding as it easier sometimes use at work. Happy to start when ever the disk arrives At least it will be another one that can be added to your list of indexes! Regards Sue 4204 -----Original Message----- From: Pauline James [mailto:paulinejames@onvol.net] Sent: 16 July 2005 09:46 To: susan holmes Subject: Re: [CmnFHS] Indexing Hi Sue Do you have excel or msworks........You will be indexing from the CD which are actual images of the census...... Do you know how to split the screen so that you can type and view at the same time... let me know okay I will send Llanon area.... thanks Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "susan holmes" <susan@holmes65.fslife.co.uk> To: "'Pauline James'" <paulinejames@onvol.net> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 9:47 PM Subject: RE: [CmnFHS] Indexing > Hi Pauline > > I will go with what you suggest! > With indexing is it were these actual census schedule's on the CD rather > than lists, the only ones I have like this is Swansea 1881. > Perhaps you could send a CD - what about Llannon? or one of the areas > around > Llannon that has not been done. > > Will be happy with what you send. > > Regards > > Sue > > riginal Message----- > From: Pauline James [mailto:paulinejames@onvol.net] > Sent: 14 July 2005 08:41 > To: susan holmes > Subject: Re: [CmnFHS] Indexing > > Hi Sue > > Llanelli is a big parish it will be hard to divide it up.....Swansea has > been done so that is okay for 1841.....what do you think? > > Do you have any CD's or do you want me to send you one to transcribe > from.....I am telling those who wish to transcribe that it is best to opt > for a small one first... > > thanks Pauline > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "susan holmes" <susan@holmes65.fslife.co.uk> > To: <paulinejames@onvol.net> > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 11:15 PM > Subject: FW: [CmnFHS] Indexing > > >> >> Hi Pauline >> >> What did your decide, on what area I could index are any of the ones I >> have >> given available? Or possibly Swansea could be an option. >> >> I am quite willing to do some indexing if it will help. >> >> Let me know, as I have come to a brick wall with my great grandmother >> still >> unable to trace her birth record, even the parents are elusive. >> >> Regards >> >> Sue >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: susan holmes [mailto:susan@holmes65.fslife.co.uk] >> Sent: 11 July 2005 19:40 >> To: paulinejames@onvol.net >> Subject: FW: [CmnFHS] Indexing >> >> Hi Pauline >> >> Will have a look at the template for you, some areas of Llanelly that >> might >> not have been done, I have also been given an area that my grandmother >> may >> have been born in LLwchwr sub-district the East part of Llanelli, Llannon >> area covering Cross Hands area or what is needed. >> >> Regards >> >> Sue >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pauline James [mailto:paulinejames@onvol.net] >> Sent: 11 July 2005 19:20 >> To: susan holmes >> Subject: Re: [CmnFHS] Indexing >> >> Hi Sue >> >> Do you want me to send you a template.....there is no rush at >> all.......do >> you want me to send a CD of a particular parish to do....... >> >> let me know and I will send you template....thanks Pauline >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "susan holmes" <susan@holmes65.fslife.co.uk> >> To: <paulinejames@onvol.net> >> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 8:17 PM >> Subject: RE: [CmnFHS] Indexing >> >> >>> Hi Pauline >>> >>> What's involved in indexing, I know you us Excel for most information >>> but >>> in >>> a set format, as part of my job I use Excel just about everyday. >>> >>> If you could let me know what,s required and what sort of time scale you >>> need things by as may be able to put in some hours a week. >>> >>> Regards >>> Sue >>> 4204 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Pauline James [mailto:paulinejames@onvol.net] >>> Sent: 08 July 2005 11:01 >>> To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-FHS-L@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [CmnFHS] Indexing >>> >>> Thanks for your support again in indexing 1841.......such a task..!! >>> >>> If anyone does have an index they wish to donate please feel free to >>> send >>> to >>> myself off line.......I am downloading information to CRO on a regular >>> basis...... >>> >>> I am currently indexing burials to add to our master burial >>> index.......just >>> finished Llandingat (Llandovery) to 1875 as I only indexed to 1842 first >>> time round, now doing Llangeler, not even half way through and about 800 >>> there already.....it is good to have them in one index, as there are >>> quite >> >>> a >>> few who are buried outside of their parish...... >>> >>> again regards >>> Pauline >>> >>> >>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE-FHS Mailing List ==== >>> This is a Closed List For Carmarthenshire FHS Members only >>> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >>> CarmarthenshireFHS@WalesGenealogy.co.uk >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >

Hello Pauline and Linda - I went on the family search IGI and found David Samuel 1798 Llanelly and Maria Samuel 1796 children of Mr Samuel and Margaret Thomas. I wondered if you could check these on the proper IGI please Pauline. Simon Samuel must have remarried between 1841 and 1851. best wishes Diana

Hello Pauline and Linda - just had a look at the 1841 and the census there gives Velinvole as the address with Simon Samuel aged 40 a copperman with Ann aged 40 and living next door to John Hopkin father of John Hopkin who married Margaret William in December 1841. The Samuel living next door but one to the William orphans was David Samuel 35 a farmer with wife Margaret aged 30 - I would guess Simon and David were brothers going on circumstantial evidence. It looks like Ann has died and Simon Samuel has remarried a Mary. Good or what!! So I now have a positive sister for John William c 1803 ish. Diana

Hello Linda - I have not proved yet the relationship between the Samuels and William families. I will keep in touch if it looks good!! Diana

I remain fixated on locating my Lewis family from Llandeilo Abbercywyn (Parish of the Blessed St. Teilo) in Carmarthenshire, South Wales. The National Library of Wales has found that William Lewis brought his son John, born 13 February 1771, to the parish church for baptism on 15 February 1772. He came to the USA but we don't know when. He may have settled directly in Rye, Westchester County New York State where his grave and that of several members of his family, a granddaughter and a great granddaughter (Williamina Wood died 1869 in New York City) are buried in the Christ's Church section of Greenwood-Union Cemetery. Later census records indicate that John's wife was named Sarah and that he had at least one son John Lewis Jr. who married Cynthia, maiden name unknown from Virginia. I believe that his son had 5 children mostly born in Connecticut. Henry was born in 1830, James was born in 1834, Ann Marie was born in 1844, Cynthia Ann a child who died at 7 years was born in 1847 and Ella is the youngest probably born in 1851 possibly in New York City. When I caught up with this family most were already deceased. I gleaned the information on this family from their stones in the cemetery at Rye. I don't know how Cynthia hooked up with John Lewis. Her stone indicates that she was born in 1807. I don't know what her maiden surname was even though a census indicates that her parents were also born in the state of Virginia. By the time that I caught up with the family Cynthia was a widow living with her son in law and daughter James Wood and Ann Marie (Lewis) Wood first in New York City and then in Mount Vernon, Westchester County, New York. I have narrowed their deaths to between 1886 and 1900 for James Wood in Mount Vernon, Westchester County, New York and after 1930 for Ann Marie (Lewis) Wood in Utica City, Oneida County, New York when she would have been 85 years old. My next piece on information on Ann Marie is that she was declared deceased in her daughter's obituary printed in June 1949. The Wood couple are buried at Sleepy Hollow near Tarrytown, Westchester County, New York. They had 7 children and raised 6. With all that I have discovered on the Lewis Family I am wondering if it is possible to locate more children born to the William Lewis family by the baptisms performed at the parish church at Llandeilo Abbercywyn either before or after 1772? Thanks for any help. Daniel David Lewis Frommherz Seventh generation Lewis family from William Lewis at Carmarthenshire South Wales. President and CEO of OUT NOW INC.

Would someone please look-up in the 1851 census,Llanelli area for a Thomas Thomas with a son David Thomas about 9 years old. David Thomas was married at Carmel Chapel, Aberdare in 1864 and the marriage certificate reads fathers name as Thomas Thomas, a coalminer. David, wife and 2 sons came to USA about 1870 and lived in Pennsylvania. Any help will be appreciated. Thank you, Dorothy (Thomas) Terry Arizona, USA--

Diana, I have Samuel in my family tree also from Llanelly, unfortunately all I know is that my Great grandmother was Elizabeth Samuel Born abt 1835. Her father was Benjamin,she married my Greatgrandfather in Liverpool in 1853, their first son was born in Old Castle Llanelly in 1857. I am assuming she had at least one brother called William as he was a witness at the wedding. Any information would help, of course there may not even be a connection but I really have come up against a brick wall.Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 6:25 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] William family > Good morning Pauline - I have been trying to link the William family with the others who seem to have been near them in 1841/1851. > > I have found a marriage of Simon Samuel to Mary William 31/1/1817 in Llanelli. > > In the 1851 census they are at 7 Adulam Row. Would you be kind enough to give me the full transcription please for Llanelly 2b page 8 with all the Samuel family that are there. > > Could be good!! > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > >

Hi Diana the wife in 1851 is Ann...... Llanelly 1851 2b Hengoed sch 79 page 22 7 Adulam Row Simon Samuel head marr 53 lead smelter born Llanelly Ann Samuel wife marr 54 Llanelly Thomas Samuel son 22 collier Mary Samuel dau 19 Ann Samuel dau 16 David Samuel son 10 all born Llanelly I will check my burials...Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] William family > Good morning Pauline - I have been trying to link the William family with > the others who seem to have been near them in 1841/1851. > > I have found a marriage of Simon Samuel to Mary William 31/1/1817 in > Llanelli. > > In the 1851 census they are at 7 Adulam Row. Would you be kind enough to > give me the full transcription please for Llanelly 2b page 8 with all the > Samuel family that are there. > > Could be good!! > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Sue, she is not in Llanddowror in 1851, so possibly not born, the only Mary Thomas is Llanddowror is an 8 year old.... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harvey" <pippyx@tiscali.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:31 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] MARY THOMAS LLANDOWROR 1851 > Hi , > Could SKS find anything about Mary Thomas born LLandowror 1851+/-1. > She left Carmarthen in 1870 and gone with Rchel Lewis on her marriage to > Glamorgan where she is recorded as a servant.in 1871 and 1881 > There may be a relationship with Rachel Lewis. > It is possible that she is part of the Lewis Household in 1861 > Any help will be really appreciated. > Cheers > Sue in LLantrisant. > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Good morning Pauline - I have been trying to link the William family with the others who seem to have been near them in 1841/1851. I have found a marriage of Simon Samuel to Mary William 31/1/1817 in Llanelli. In the 1851 census they are at 7 Adulam Row. Would you be kind enough to give me the full transcription please for Llanelly 2b page 8 with all the Samuel family that are there. Could be good!! Diana

Pat Hi, Yes, you did kindly send me either or both but I am afraid that I am having trouble with Rachel's Husband!!and so I was double checking and seeing if anything else will turn up that might clarify things.However many thanks and I am about to make a hard copy, I willl willingly look anything up for you and Plan to go next Wednesday if my Husband is well enough for me to go .But send me the details as I need to go some time and so will keep your info with me . If you get it done first nothing is lost . Many thanks for your ever generous help. Sue in LLantrisant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Powell" <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] Rachel Lewis b1837/8 > Hello Sue > > I'm sure I gave you the 1841 and 1851 census details for Milett farm > over a year ago which shows Rachel and family > > This is the 1841 entry:- > > Millet > David Lewis 60 Farmer > Martha Lewis 45 > Mary Lewis 15 > Eliza Lewis 15 > David Lewis 10 > Thomas Lewis 7 > Rachel Lewis 4 > William Lewis 1 > Elizabeth Morgan 15 F.S. > Benjamin Hitchin 15 Ag Lab > Joseph David 15 Ag Lab > > and here is the 1851 census entry:- > > > Milett > David LEWIS Head Marr 75 Farmer 120 Acres Laugharne > Martha LEWIS Wife Marr 52 Lampeter Velfrey Pembs > Eliza LEWIS Dau Un 26 Laugharne > David LEWIS Son 19 Laugharne > Thomas LEWIS Son 17 Laugharne > Rachel LEWIS Dau 14 Laugharne > William LEWIS Son 12 Laugharne > Sarah DAVIES Servant Un 24 Farm Servant Llanddowror > Daniel THOMAS Servant 17 Farm Servant St Clears > David BRACE Servant 16 Farm Servant Laugharne > > Note: David Lewis , Farmer married Martha James in Laugharne on Dec 24th > 1822. > > If you have a few minutes spare time in Carmarthen could you look up a > will extract for me? I have the reference but I will understand if you > don't get time as I know how quickly it can go when you're there. > > > Cheers > > Pat > > > > > In message <00ce01c59217$642cd510$a90b8bd4@SUSAN>, Susan Harvey > <pippyx@tiscali.co.uk> writes >>Hi I,would be glad of some help please. >> >>Rachel LEWIS was born Dec quarter1837/ in Carmarthen. >>Free bmd Carmarthen 26 4791 >> >>She gives Langham Carmarthen and Laugharne Carmarthen as her place of >>birth at >>various times and they all come under Carmarthen in 1837. >>I would be grateful if any one can find her in any of, >> >>The Census of >>1841 >>1851 >>1861 >>She should be with father, possibly David Lewis Farmer and a brother >>William >>?born a year or two after 1837 the last child with some older siblings pre >>1837. >>She has left Carmarthen after her Marriage in 1870. >> >>Any information about Rachel and or family would be great. >> >>Ancestry refuses to accept my login at the moment and I am going to >>Carmarthen >>next week and would like to check as much as possible before trying to get >>a >>birth Certificate. >>Many thanks . >>Sue in LLantrisant >> >> >>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >>http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> > > -- > Pat Powell > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 > >

Hello Sue I'm sure I gave you the 1841 and 1851 census details for Milett farm over a year ago which shows Rachel and family This is the 1841 entry:- Millet David Lewis 60 Farmer Martha Lewis 45 Mary Lewis 15 Eliza Lewis 15 David Lewis 10 Thomas Lewis 7 Rachel Lewis 4 William Lewis 1 Elizabeth Morgan 15 F.S. Benjamin Hitchin 15 Ag Lab Joseph David 15 Ag Lab and here is the 1851 census entry:- Milett David LEWIS Head Marr 75 Farmer 120 Acres Laugharne Martha LEWIS Wife Marr 52 Lampeter Velfrey Pembs Eliza LEWIS Dau Un 26 Laugharne David LEWIS Son 19 Laugharne Thomas LEWIS Son 17 Laugharne Rachel LEWIS Dau 14 Laugharne William LEWIS Son 12 Laugharne Sarah DAVIES Servant Un 24 Farm Servant Llanddowror Daniel THOMAS Servant 17 Farm Servant St Clears David BRACE Servant 16 Farm Servant Laugharne Note: David Lewis , Farmer married Martha James in Laugharne on Dec 24th 1822. If you have a few minutes spare time in Carmarthen could you look up a will extract for me? I have the reference but I will understand if you don't get time as I know how quickly it can go when you're there. Cheers Pat In message <00ce01c59217$642cd510$a90b8bd4@SUSAN>, Susan Harvey <pippyx@tiscali.co.uk> writes >Hi I,would be glad of some help please. > >Rachel LEWIS was born Dec quarter1837/ in Carmarthen. >Free bmd Carmarthen 26 4791 > >She gives Langham Carmarthen and Laugharne Carmarthen as her place of birth at >various times and they all come under Carmarthen in 1837. >I would be grateful if any one can find her in any of, > >The Census of >1841 >1851 >1861 >She should be with father, possibly David Lewis Farmer and a brother William >?born a year or two after 1837 the last child with some older siblings pre 1837. >She has left Carmarthen after her Marriage in 1870. > >Any information about Rachel and or family would be great. > >Ancestry refuses to accept my login at the moment and I am going to Carmarthen >next week and would like to check as much as possible before trying to get a >birth Certificate. >Many thanks . >Sue in LLantrisant > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > -- Pat Powell

Hi , Could SKS find anything about Mary Thomas born LLandowror 1851+/-1. She left Carmarthen in 1870 and gone with Rchel Lewis on her marriage to Glamorgan where she is recorded as a servant.in 1871 and 1881 There may be a relationship with Rachel Lewis. It is possible that she is part of the Lewis Household in 1861 Any help will be really appreciated. Cheers Sue in LLantrisant.

Hi I,would be glad of some help please. Rachel LEWIS was born Dec quarter1837/ in Carmarthen. Free bmd Carmarthen 26 4791 She gives Langham Carmarthen and Laugharne Carmarthen as her place of birth at various times and they all come under Carmarthen in 1837. I would be grateful if any one can find her in any of, The Census of 1841 1851 1861 She should be with father, possibly David Lewis Farmer and a brother William ?born a year or two after 1837 the last child with some older siblings pre 1837. She has left Carmarthen after her Marriage in 1870. Any information about Rachel and or family would be great. Ancestry refuses to accept my login at the moment and I am going to Carmarthen next week and would like to check as much as possible before trying to get a birth Certificate. Many thanks . Sue in LLantrisant

Hi Pat Can see you are looking for Williams for Glyn, do you have any thoughts on Diana's Williams family? Just heard from Terry CRo that Blaen-nant north of Llanelli 1856/57 electoroal roll - freehold farm owned by Henry Thomas living in Llangennech...... we know there is a Sarah Thomas residing there 1851 and 1861......wonder if they are belonging she stated unmarried Hope you are well.....speak soon Pauline

Hi Diana No problem......its just that this chap is elusive and his father died too young!!! By going around the houses you may find them yet........ I will talk to you off line about split screen, mine is a simple explanation, otherwise I could not have done it!! Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] William/s family > Of course - silly me!! I need to find out how I can split the page so > that I can have the cd and the template up together. I will ask my son. > > I print off all your emails as well as mine now as I found I was asking > you things twice and I apologise for that in the past. I do however have > a huge pile of papers now!! > > I am trying now to write down a plan of where and who everyone I think is. > Now you know me I can come up with some very creative ancestry so I hope > it is ok that when I have got my head around it all I will email it to you > and you can tell me what you think is fact or fiction!! Hope this is ok > with you. > > best wishes > Diana > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hi Diana Try to print out or save to a folder all the emails with information that I am sending to you, it will make things or people easier to find..... Index of 1841....no, as you volunteered yesterday to do it :-) I'll look around 1851....Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] William/s family > Hello Pauline - I do not think I could survive nowadays in those > temperatures without aircon. Having said that when we lived in Malaysia > it > was about 35 degrees and 98% humidity every day of the year and we did not > have aircon! > > Thank you for the information on Adulam - I had just gone on the date on > the > front of the chapel. So it is not going to be as easy as I thought!! who > would have guessed! > > I like the Mary Griffith marriage with Wm Wm 1803 very much as I have a > Richard > Griffith as witness on the William/ Hopkin marriage. Does it say where > Mary Griffith and William William came from. I have not found Richard > Griffith in any census. I will look again at the 1851 and 1841 censuses > on this one. That would tie up with the one you found in the > 1851 with a Mary William living with Mary Banks at Old Road Llanelli. 140 > page 38 dist 1g hamlet hengoed. This was the one I could not find on the > 1841 census if you have an index that would help. > > I found a William Banks marrying an Ann William in Llanelli 27/5/1835. I > have them with daughter Mary and others in the 1861 census. I need to > research this further on the 1851 and 1841 censuses and will get back to > you. > > My brain is a bit fuddled - I need to write all this down on paper and try > to sort it all out and see what I have!! > > best wishes > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hello Glyn If you can put up with my writing down all my thoughts - I hope I may be able to help. I first wondered why you decided that Llandilo, Carmarthenshire was more likely than Llandudno, Caernarfonshire as there were more occurrences of Llandudno than Llandilo? However as his wife Hannah came from the Gower area I suppose South Wales seems a better bet. The other puzzle was that you said you had John in 1881 , 1891 & 1901 - but you then said three census gave Llandudno and the 1901 gave Llandilo - so which is the mossing census? - or did you really mean two gave Llandudno and 1901 gave Llandilo. Have you seen any of the census in the original or just transcriptions? I have London 1891 if you tell me the rerefernce and address I can have a look and see if what it looks like. There was at least one John Williams born about 1854 in Llandudno - but there is one still there in the 1881 census so hopefully that might eliminate him! There are quite a lot of John Williams and David Williams in Carmarthenshire - as you can guess. Have you already traced Hannah's family? If she is the Hannah , daughter of Henry Isaac , cordwainer then I have her and her family in 1861 if you need it. As the family came from Wiltshire I may have them in 1851 too although I haven't looked. I was wondering if John and Hannah met first in South Wales and then moved up to London. I had a look for possibles for John's father and family in South Wales in 1881 and found quite a few possibles which I can send you if you like. However there are two rather interesting ones with a Llandilo connection - in the first the family is living in Llandilo and interestingly the wife is from Windsor, in the second the father was born in Llandilo and the family is living in the Swansea area which would allow the possibility of meeting up with the Isaac family. Here are the 1881 census entries - do any of the children's names follow a family pattern? Dwelling: No 16 New Road Census Place: Llandilo Fawr, Carmarthen, Wales Source: FHL Film 1342298 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5390 Folio 124 Page 29 Marr Age Sex Birthplace David WILLIAMS M 48 M Llansadwrn, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Head Occ: Cabinet Maker Anne WILLIAMS M 35 F Windsor Rel: Wife Occ: Cabinet Maker Wife David WILLIAMS 13 M Llandilo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Son Occ: Scholar Dwelling: 20 Waun Wen Terrace Census Place: Swansea Town, Glamorgan, Wales Source: FHL Film 1342292 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5360 Folio 109 Page 4 Marr Age Sex Birthplace David WILLIAMS M 49 M Llandilo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Head Occ: Joiner Ann WILLIAMS M 46 F Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Rel: Wife Margt. WILLIAMS U 19 F Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Rel: Daur Elizth. WILLIAMS U 17 F Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Rel: Daur Are there any more clues on the marriage cert? witnesses etc? Let me know what you think All for now Pat In message <42E57AE6.00000F.02972@GLYNWS>, Glyn Williams <glyn.w@xtra.co.nz> writes >Bill Williams struck a note with me when he suggested that some listers may >have struck a brick wall with their research. I am such a person having >tried for years from afar ("down under NZ") to prove details of my G >Grandfather's John WILLIAMS' birth. I have established from 1881, 91 and >1901 censuses that John was living with his wife Hannah (nee ISAACS - b. >Ilston, Swansea, 1854) and expanding family in Marylebone, Middlesex. John >s and Hannah had 8 children including my Grandfather Percy b. 1888. In the >first 3 censuses, John's place of birth is shown as Llandudno which sent me >off on a wild goose chase looking for his birth in Caernarfonshire. Then, >when the 1901 was released...bingo....his POB had changed to "Wales - >Llandilo Carm" and his age was given as 48. The "breakthrough" I had been >hoping for. Chance would be a fine thing however as, 5 years later, I am >still no further ahead. > >I have a copy of John's marriage certificate dated 18 May 1879 showing his >occupation as "Joiner" and his father's name as David and occupation >Carpenter". The marriage occured in the Trinity Church, Marylebone. > >If any kind lister out there can help me track down my elusive John Williams >with a father named David a carpenter, I would be eternally grateful. > >Glyn Williams >Auckland >New Zealand > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot find - >Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm House etc >etc - He will search the Database > -- Pat Powell

Bill Williams struck a note with me when he suggested that some listers may have struck a brick wall with their research. I am such a person having tried for years from afar ("down under NZ") to prove details of my G Grandfather's John WILLIAMS' birth. I have established from 1881, 91 and 1901 censuses that John was living with his wife Hannah (nee ISAACS - b. Ilston, Swansea, 1854) and expanding family in Marylebone, Middlesex. John s and Hannah had 8 children including my Grandfather Percy b. 1888. In the first 3 censuses, John's place of birth is shown as Llandudno which sent me off on a wild goose chase looking for his birth in Caernarfonshire. Then, when the 1901 was released...bingo....his POB had changed to "Wales - Llandilo Carm" and his age was given as 48. The "breakthrough" I had been hoping for. Chance would be a fine thing however as, 5 years later, I am still no further ahead. I have a copy of John's marriage certificate dated 18 May 1879 showing his occupation as "Joiner" and his father's name as David and occupation Carpenter". The marriage occured in the Trinity Church, Marylebone. If any kind lister out there can help me track down my elusive John Williams with a father named David a carpenter, I would be eternally grateful. Glyn Williams Auckland New Zealand