Folks In the 1851 census return for part of my Havard family, 2 of the sons are referred to as SO (obvious!) and another 2 sons as SOU. Can anyone explain the difference? Thanks Pat Dougan Belfast

Pauline I have'nt got a clue where they were in 1851.According to 1861 census for Birkenhead William was 34 birth date about 1827 he was coal dealer, His wifes name was Ellen, she was born about 1818 and was aged 43. She was born in Llanyngendl Anglesey. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Linda when was William Samuel born? What are the details from the census > that you have, do you think they were still in Llanelly in 1851 Pauline > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > > > Benjamins occupation was Coppersmith and William was definitely older by > > about 8 or 9 years according to census for 1861/71/81/91. William seems to > > have settled here in Birkenhead and lived near Elizabeth and her family. > > Linda > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > > > > >> Hi Linda > >> > >> What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? > >> > >> I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 > >> > >> Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f > >> sch 52 page 14 Mill Street > >> Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly > >> Thomas son 28 Llanelly > >> Susanna dau 24 Llanelly > >> John son 18 Llanelly > >> Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly > >> William son 4 Llanelly > >> > >> or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a > >> 115 Swab > >> Jane Samuel head 55 > >> Ann dau 26 > >> John son 19 > >> Elizabeth dau 17 > >> William son 13 > >> > >> Did the whole family move, do you know > >> > >> Pauline > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> > >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > >> > >> > >> > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I > >> > say > >> > all > >> > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin > >> > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly > >> > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one > > of > >> > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a > >> > nephew.I > >> > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating > >> > it > >> > can > >> > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was > >> > Elizabeth > >> > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers > >> > went > >> > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda > >> > From: "diana murray" > >> > <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> > >> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > >> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM > >> > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > >> > > >> > > >> >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth > >> > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open > > as > >> > I > >> > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other > > Samuel > >> > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the > >> > 1851 > >> > census? > >> >> > >> >> Diana > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >> >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >> > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > >> > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >> > > >> > >> > >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >> I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research > >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > > questions & Quiries. > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database > >

Linda when was William Samuel born? What are the details from the census that you have, do you think they were still in Llanelly in 1851 Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Benjamins occupation was Coppersmith and William was definitely older by > about 8 or 9 years according to census for 1861/71/81/91. William seems to > have settled here in Birkenhead and lived near Elizabeth and her family. > Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > >> Hi Linda >> >> What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? >> >> I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 >> >> Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f >> sch 52 page 14 Mill Street >> Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly >> Thomas son 28 Llanelly >> Susanna dau 24 Llanelly >> John son 18 Llanelly >> Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly >> William son 4 Llanelly >> >> or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a >> 115 Swab >> Jane Samuel head 55 >> Ann dau 26 >> John son 19 >> Elizabeth dau 17 >> William son 13 >> >> Did the whole family move, do you know >> >> Pauline >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> >> > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I >> > say >> > all >> > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin >> > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly >> > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one > of >> > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a >> > nephew.I >> > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating >> > it >> > can >> > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was >> > Elizabeth >> > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers >> > went >> > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda >> > From: "diana murray" >> > <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> >> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM >> > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> > >> > >> >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth >> > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open > as >> > I >> > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other > Samuel >> > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the >> > 1851 >> > census? >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> > >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hi Linda What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f sch 52 page 14 Mill Street Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly Thomas son 28 Llanelly Susanna dau 24 Llanelly John son 18 Llanelly Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly William son 4 Llanelly or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a 115 Swab Jane Samuel head 55 Ann dau 26 John son 19 Elizabeth dau 17 William son 13 Did the whole family move, do you know Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I say > all > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one of > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a > nephew.I > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating it > can > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was > Elizabeth > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers > went > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda > From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open as > I > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other Samuel > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the 1851 > census? >> >> Diana >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

I found a burial of a Benjamin Samuel in Llanelly parish church 1847 1st May - Benjamin Samuel, Seaside, aged 32 is this him? Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I say > all > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one of > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a > nephew.I > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating it > can > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was > Elizabeth > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers > went > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda > From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open as > I > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other Samuel > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the 1851 > census? >> >> Diana >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Diana, it did not say in 1822 that he was a widower... In 1851 I have two Simon Samuels.......one aged 43 master mariner his wife is Elizabeth......the other is the one in Adulam Row wife Ann.... No sign of a Mary in my burial index..... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:52 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] Simon Samuel marriage > Hello again Pauline - I found another marriage of Simon Samuel dated > 29/20/1822 to Ann Jenkin in Llanelli so I suppose the date to look for > Mary's death would be around 1822. > > Thanks > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hi Diana There were two Simon Samuels marrying around the same time in Llanelly Llanelly parish church 1st Jan 1817 Simon Samuel and Mary William Llanelly parish church 29th October 1822 Simon Samuel and Anne Jenkin It did not state he was widower, and I also cannot find a Mary William in my burial index hope this helps Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:46 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] Simon Samuel > Hello Pauline - I think I was rushing a bit yesterday. In the 1841 > Westfa 13 page 2 the Simon Samuel was married to an Ann. The marriage I > found was in 1817 so if that is the correct Simon Samuel and there were > not many in Llanelly (only one I think!) then Mary must have died pre > 1841. Would you be kind enough to look that up on your deaths for me > please. > > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Benjamins occupation was Coppersmith and William was definitely older by about 8 or 9 years according to census for 1861/71/81/91. William seems to have settled here in Birkenhead and lived near Elizabeth and her family. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Hi Linda > > What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? > > I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 > > Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f > sch 52 page 14 Mill Street > Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly > Thomas son 28 Llanelly > Susanna dau 24 Llanelly > John son 18 Llanelly > Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly > William son 4 Llanelly > > or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a > 115 Swab > Jane Samuel head 55 > Ann dau 26 > John son 19 > Elizabeth dau 17 > William son 13 > > Did the whole family move, do you know > > Pauline > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > > > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I say > > all > > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin > > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly > > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one of > > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a > > nephew.I > > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating it > > can > > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was > > Elizabeth > > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers > > went > > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda > > From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM > > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > > > > >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth > > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open as > > I > > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other Samuel > > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the 1851 > > census? > >> > >> Diana > >> > >> > >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >

Good afternoon Pauline, It has been quite a while since working on my family .I am now back into the searching mode again. I have a John WILLIAMS for whom I would like to find a date of birth and parents, if I could be so lucky. John WILIAMS b. Conwil Elvet, Carmarthen and Amy DAVID b. Conwil Elvet, Carmarthen married on the 28 December 1799 in Aberqwilli Parish Church, Carmarthen. They had 6 known children: Mary 1801, Thomas 1805. William 1807, Amy 1809, Hanna 1813, and John 1817. Three of the children were b. in Aberqwilli and three were b. in Conwil Elvet. I thank you for any help possible.............Patty , BC , Canada ps. Pauline.........the triplets are starting school in Sept............where does the time go?

I will have a look Diana

No I cant find them on the 1851 census ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open as I go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other Samuel families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the 1851 census? > > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >

Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I say all I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one of John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a nephew.I know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating it can be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was Elizabeth and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers went to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open as I go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other Samuel families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the 1851 census? > > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >

Thank you for that Pauline - I am 99% certain that the Mary and Simon Samuel is right. Mary is probably buried in Adulam with all the other William family that I cannot find!! Diana

Hello again Pauline - just to add one more question to all those I have asked today - do you know of a Sylen Farm? Diana

Diana I have copies of early Adulam records I obtained from the National Archive ( from when the chapel was called Tynewydd, before they adopted the name Adulam), they are separate from the Adulam records that Pauline puts out on the Adulam CD ( which I also have). I will search them and see, ( once I find where I put them my pile is getting huge). The little baptist chapel at Capel Sylen was attached to Adulam. Dave Davies Boulder CO diana murray <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote: Hello David - Thank you for the information on Sylen Farm and your help but I don't know if I do or not have the right place to be honest with you. I contacted the archives dept at Carmarthen to try and find out if there was a list of inhabitants for Felinfoel/Llanelly pre 1841 as I think my great x 4 grandfather was dead by 1841 as I cannot find him in the census. Also they were attached to Adulam Baptist church where it is impossible to search the archives. They came up with only one John William a farmer of 40 acres at Sylen Farm. They can copy it for me but it will be quite expensive not like an ordinary entry - so I need to be sure that it is the right John William. I do not know if it is correct!! I need to do some more research on it first. I do not at present have the name Jenkin and Daniel in my family. The most common names seem to be Davies/ Hopkin and now I am trying to link up the names Samuel, Richard and Fisher with my relatives. I have the dubious fortune to have John Williams going back from the present day to 1800 in my direct line! Any other ideas would be warmly welcomed. with best wishes Diana ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database

Would someone kindly help me? I am seeking more information on my Great- Grandfather, WILLIAM EDWARDS, who was born in Llanelli on 2/27/1817. Will truly appreciate any and all information re; his record of birth, home address, census of 1821 or 1831, or any information you may send. Thanking you in advance for this courtesy. Regards, Jane in Cal.

Diana At grid reference SN 513069 ( Ord survey) you will find the tiny hamlet of Sylen, it is on Mynyddd Sylen on the narrow road out of the village of Five Roads towards Felinfoel. I believe this is what was called Sylen farm although there is also Glyn Sylen very close to it ( SN 503070). Although shown as a hamlet it is really only a farm. There is also Sylen Ranch nearby but it is modern and not shown on the old maps. Capel Sylen at ref. SN 510065 was a little Baptist chapel now disused. If you have ancestors there let me know as my Jenkins & Daniel families farmed their also Dave Davies Boulder CO diana murray <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote: Hello again Pauline - just to add one more question to all those I have asked today - do you know of a Sylen Farm? Diana ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk

Hello again Pauline - I found another marriage of Simon Samuel dated 29/20/1822 to Ann Jenkin in Llanelli so I suppose the date to look for Mary's death would be around 1822. Thanks Diana

Hello Pauline - I think I was rushing a bit yesterday. In the 1841 Westfa 13 page 2 the Simon Samuel was married to an Ann. The marriage I found was in 1817 so if that is the correct Simon Samuel and there were not many in Llanelly (only one I think!) then Mary must have died pre 1841. Would you be kind enough to look that up on your deaths for me please. Diana

Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open as I go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other Samuel families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the 1851 census? Diana