Could be the 8 is for the 8th month. bug is puzzling but could be meant to represent August. Just a thought. Dorothy

Hi Pat Hope you are okay now, did not know you were unwell......thanks for answering us... Diana's question is still the same, but we are trying to go all around the houses (literally) to see if we can find some connection etc.......in 1841 Margaret was 15 (rounded down from 18) and in charge of her siblings Hannah 8 and John 6.....no sign of the parents in the area we know the father is John Williams labourer as he is listed on Margaret's marriage to John Hopkins also listed on John's marriage too.....but, we cannot find sight of him, we know he was deceased by 1855 but no idea when he died.....John Wms junior was still with his sister who is now Margaret Hopkins in 1851, the sister Hannah is a servant living out. No idea of mothers name.....this family were Adulam so cannot find them.... thanks Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Powell" <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Wiliams family - Pat Powell > Hello Pauline &all > > I have been a bit "under the weather" the last two weeks and I have just > been trying to roughly check the mail so that I didn't come back to > hundreds in my in-box. > > I'm afraid I haven't really kept up with Diana's e-mail conversations as > there have been quite a lot. > > I picked up on Glyn's because of the Gower connection. > > > If you tell me the outstanding question now in Diana's Williams family > I'll see if I can get my brain to work!!! > > > Greetings to you all in sunny Malta! > > > Pat > > > > In message <003001c591d7$78fa4170$6602a8c0@carmarthen>, Pauline James > <paulinejames@onvol.net> writes >>Hi Pat >> >>Can see you are looking for Williams for Glyn, do you have any thoughts on >>Diana's Williams family? >> >>Just heard from Terry CRo that >> >>Blaen-nant north of Llanelli 1856/57 electoroal roll - freehold farm owned >>by >>Henry Thomas living in Llangennech...... >> >>we know there is a Sarah Thomas residing there 1851 and 1861......wonder >>if they >>are belonging she stated unmarried >> >>Hope you are well.....speak soon Pauline >> >> >> >>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >>http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> > > -- > Pat Powell > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hi Pauline, Thank you for your early response to my inquiry about WILLIAM EDWARDS. I have just located him on the 1851 census in England, but he may be listed on the 1841 census in Llanelli. How would I find out if he were listed on the 1841 census? Again, many thanks. Regards, Jane in Cal.

I hope you don't mind my intruding on a personal note but the late Dr. Samuel, husband of the late Baroness Edith Sumerskill of anti boxing repute and mother(?) of Shirley Sumerskill was one of the Samuel family of Llanelly too. I think he was a Bill. I have been following with interest! g gordon myddelton wrote: >Benjamins occupation was Coppersmith and William was definitely older by >about 8 or 9 years according to census for 1861/71/81/91. William seems to >have settled here in Birkenhead and lived near Elizabeth and her family. >Linda >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> >To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > > > >>Hi Linda >> >>What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? >> >>I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 >> >>Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f >>sch 52 page 14 Mill Street >>Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly >>Thomas son 28 Llanelly >>Susanna dau 24 Llanelly >>John son 18 Llanelly >>Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly >>William son 4 Llanelly >> >>or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a >>115 Swab >>Jane Samuel head 55 >>Ann dau 26 >>John son 19 >>Elizabeth dau 17 >>William son 13 >> >>Did the whole family move, do you know >> >>Pauline >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> >>To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> >> >> >>>Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I say >>>all >>>I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin >>>Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly >>>about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one >>> >>> >of > > >>>John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a >>>nephew.I >>>know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating it >>>can >>>be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was >>>Elizabeth >>>and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers >>>went >>>to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda >>>From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> >>>To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM >>>Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open >>> >>> >as > > >>>I >>>go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other >>> >>> >Samuel > > >>>families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the 1851 >>>census? >>> >>> >>>>Diana >>>> >>>> >>>>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>>>Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >>>>http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>>Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >>>http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >>> >>> >>> >>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >>http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> >> >> > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research questions & Quiries. >http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > > > > >

Hello Pauline &all I have been a bit "under the weather" the last two weeks and I have just been trying to roughly check the mail so that I didn't come back to hundreds in my in-box. I'm afraid I haven't really kept up with Diana's e-mail conversations as there have been quite a lot. I picked up on Glyn's because of the Gower connection. If you tell me the outstanding question now in Diana's Williams family I'll see if I can get my brain to work!!! Greetings to you all in sunny Malta! Pat In message <003001c591d7$78fa4170$6602a8c0@carmarthen>, Pauline James <paulinejames@onvol.net> writes >Hi Pat > >Can see you are looking for Williams for Glyn, do you have any thoughts on >Diana's Williams family? > >Just heard from Terry CRo that > >Blaen-nant north of Llanelli 1856/57 electoroal roll - freehold farm owned by >Henry Thomas living in Llangennech...... > >we know there is a Sarah Thomas residing there 1851 and 1861......wonder if they >are belonging she stated unmarried > >Hope you are well.....speak soon Pauline > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > -- Pat Powell

Hello Joy Thank you very much for the offer - it's very kind of you. I'll let you know the situation later. Pat In message <27.76f5853b.3019985d@aol.com>, Joycozens@aol.com writes >Hi Pat > >I am going to Pembrokeshire Record Office in September and will obtain the >abstract for you if Sue has not managed to get to Carmarthen before then. > >Bye for now >Joy > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research questions >& Quiries. >http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > -- Pat Powell

If you have got the story of the individual then the name should not matter that much. If you do not have the story then it must be a losing battle, if not entirely lost. JPR would not have missed the goal if he had not been called JPR. He would still have got it. g Pauline James wrote: > Diana, me again there are 102 John William/s of various ages living in > Llanelly in 1851......705 in the whole of Carmarthenshire :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" > <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Sylen Farm/William family Llanelly > > >> Hello David - Thank you for the information on Sylen Farm and your >> help but I don't know if I do or not have the right place to be >> honest with you. I >> contacted the archives dept at Carmarthen to try and find out if >> there was a >> list of inhabitants for Felinfoel/Llanelly pre 1841 as I think my >> great x 4 >> grandfather was dead by 1841 as I cannot find him in the census. >> Also they were attached to Adulam Baptist church where it is >> impossible to search the archives. They >> came up with only one John William a farmer of 40 acres at Sylen Farm. >> They can copy it for me but it will be quite expensive not like an >> ordinary >> entry - so I need to be sure that it is the right John William. I >> do not >> know if it is correct!! I need to do some more research on it first. >> >> I do not at present have the name Jenkin and Daniel in my family. >> The most common names seem to be Davies/ Hopkin and now I am trying >> to link up the names Samuel, Richard and Fisher with my relatives. >> I have the dubious fortune to have John Williams going back from the >> present day to 1800 in my direct line! >> >> Any other ideas would be warmly welcomed. >> >> with best wishes >> Diana >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you >> cannot find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the >> name of the Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >> > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > > >

Diana, me again there are 102 John William/s of various ages living in Llanelly in 1851......705 in the whole of Carmarthenshire :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Sylen Farm/William family Llanelly > Hello David - Thank you for the information on Sylen Farm and your help > but I don't know if I do or not have the right place to be honest with > you. I > contacted the archives dept at Carmarthen to try and find out if there was > a > list of inhabitants for Felinfoel/Llanelly pre 1841 as I think my great x > 4 > grandfather was dead by 1841 as I cannot find him in the census. Also > they were attached to Adulam Baptist church where it is impossible to > search the archives. They > came up with only one John William a farmer of 40 acres at Sylen Farm. > They can copy it for me but it will be quite expensive not like an > ordinary > entry - so I need to be sure that it is the right John William. I do > not > know if it is correct!! I need to do some more research on it first. > > I do not at present have the name Jenkin and Daniel in my family. The > most common names seem to be Davies/ Hopkin and now I am trying to link up > the names Samuel, Richard and Fisher with my relatives. I have the > dubious fortune to have John Williams going back from the present day to > 1800 in my direct line! > > Any other ideas would be warmly welcomed. > > with best wishes > Diana > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >

Hi Diana If that John Williams is from Sylen farm, I doubt very much if he is the one you are looking for.....do you agree? Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Sylen Farm/William family Llanelly > Hello David - Thank you for the information on Sylen Farm and your help > but I don't know if I do or not have the right place to be honest with > you. I > contacted the archives dept at Carmarthen to try and find out if there was > a > list of inhabitants for Felinfoel/Llanelly pre 1841 as I think my great x > 4 > grandfather was dead by 1841 as I cannot find him in the census. Also > they were attached to Adulam Baptist church where it is impossible to > search the archives. They > came up with only one John William a farmer of 40 acres at Sylen Farm. > They can copy it for me but it will be quite expensive not like an > ordinary > entry - so I need to be sure that it is the right John William. I do > not > know if it is correct!! I need to do some more research on it first. > > I do not at present have the name Jenkin and Daniel in my family. The > most common names seem to be Davies/ Hopkin and now I am trying to link up > the names Samuel, Richard and Fisher with my relatives. I have the > dubious fortune to have John Williams going back from the present day to > 1800 in my direct line! > > Any other ideas would be warmly welcomed. > > with best wishes > Diana > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >

Hi Dave I have looked in Tynewydd for Diana.....tried to look in Adulam, but even David Cooke Archives informed Diana that the records are just one big jumble......have you been able to make sense from them... Pauline - hope all is well with you.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Davies" <felinfoel71@yahoo.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Sylen Farm/William family Llanelly > Diana > > I have copies of early Adulam records I obtained from the National Archive > ( from when the chapel was called Tynewydd, before they adopted the name > Adulam), they are separate from the Adulam records that Pauline puts out > on the Adulam CD ( which I also have). I will search them and see, ( once > I find where I put them my pile is getting huge). The little baptist > chapel at Capel Sylen was attached to Adulam. > > Dave Davies > Boulder CO > > diana murray <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote: > Hello David - Thank you for the information on Sylen Farm and your help > but > I don't know if I do or not have the right place to be honest with you. I > contacted the archives dept at Carmarthen to try and find out if there was > a > list of inhabitants for Felinfoel/Llanelly pre 1841 as I think my great x > 4 > grandfather was dead by 1841 as I cannot find him in the census. Also > they were attached to Adulam Baptist church where it is impossible to > search > the archives. They > came up with only one John William a farmer of 40 acres at Sylen Farm. > They can copy it for me but it will be quite expensive not like an > ordinary > entry - so I need to be sure that it is the right John William. I do not > know if it is correct!! I need to do some more research on it first. > > I do not at present have the name Jenkin and Daniel in my family. The most > common names seem to be Davies/ Hopkin and now I am trying to link up the > names Samuel, Richard and Fisher with my relatives. I have the dubious > fortune to have John Williams going back from the present day to 1800 in > my > direct line! > > Any other ideas would be warmly welcomed. > > with best wishes > Diana > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > You are requested to have up-to-date Anti-Virus software loaded on your > PC, if your PC becomes infected, you will Automatically be Unsubscribed > from this mailing list >

Hi Pauline - I think it would be a miracle if it is the right one!! best wishes Diana

Wow Dave - that would be wonderful. I am really stuck with John William c 1834/5 who had died in 1866whose son John William 1855 was a deacon at Adulam at an early age - he went to Gowerton at a youngish age(obituary). Also John William his father c 1803 ish give or take a bit and whose sibling I think (only think -nothing proven) could possibly have been William, Ann , Mary, Margaret and Hannah (all good family names) all around 1790 to 1800 ish give or take a bit. Thanks for the help Diana

Hi Jane Cannot see his baptism in Llanelly parish church. The first available census with information is from 1841 onwards....... Should he be in Llanelly in 1851 as I have an index for that one...... regards Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Phillips" <rojaphsmca@webtv.net> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] WILLIAM EDWARDS > Would someone kindly help me? I am seeking more information on my > Great- > Grandfather, WILLIAM EDWARDS, who was born in Llanelli on 2/27/1817. > Will truly appreciate any and all information re; his record of birth, > home address, census of 1821 or 1831, or any information you may send. > Thanking you in advance for this courtesy. > Regards, > Jane in Cal. > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hello David - Thank you for the information on Sylen Farm and your help but I don't know if I do or not have the right place to be honest with you. I contacted the archives dept at Carmarthen to try and find out if there was a list of inhabitants for Felinfoel/Llanelly pre 1841 as I think my great x 4 grandfather was dead by 1841 as I cannot find him in the census. Also they were attached to Adulam Baptist church where it is impossible to search the archives. They came up with only one John William a farmer of 40 acres at Sylen Farm. They can copy it for me but it will be quite expensive not like an ordinary entry - so I need to be sure that it is the right John William. I do not know if it is correct!! I need to do some more research on it first. I do not at present have the name Jenkin and Daniel in my family. The most common names seem to be Davies/ Hopkin and now I am trying to link up the names Samuel, Richard and Fisher with my relatives. I have the dubious fortune to have John Williams going back from the present day to 1800 in my direct line! Any other ideas would be warmly welcomed. with best wishes Diana

I discounted the 1836 marriage as it was too late to have been the Benjamin Linda was after.....there was also one in the latter end of 1700's but discounted that one too.... I cannot find them....Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana murray" <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Hello Pauline and Linda - I have just been through the 1841 Hengoed and > Westfa censuses and cannot find a Benjamin or Elizabeth Samuel. I did > find a marriage of Benjamin Samuel and Sarah William 24/4/1836 and thought > it might be yours Linda or mine. Hope this does not muddy the waters. > > Diana > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

I looked in my baptism index for Llanelly this is what is given. Llanelly parish church baptisms 1828 9th June - William Samuel son Benjamin and Winnifred 1818 9th June - Mary Samuel dau Benjamin and Winnifred there is also a Benjamin and Gwenllian as their son James was baptised on 17th Feb 1832 It only goes to 1832 so did not see Elizabeth Samuel.....strange thing is that there are 2 Benjamin Samuel's there, but no marriage in either Carms, Pembs, Cards or Glam 1813-1837 Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Benjamins occupation was Coppersmith and William was definitely older by > about 8 or 9 years according to census for 1861/71/81/91. William seems to > have settled here in Birkenhead and lived near Elizabeth and her family. > Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > >> Hi Linda >> >> What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? >> >> I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 >> >> Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f >> sch 52 page 14 Mill Street >> Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly >> Thomas son 28 Llanelly >> Susanna dau 24 Llanelly >> John son 18 Llanelly >> Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly >> William son 4 Llanelly >> >> or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a >> 115 Swab >> Jane Samuel head 55 >> Ann dau 26 >> John son 19 >> Elizabeth dau 17 >> William son 13 >> >> Did the whole family move, do you know >> >> Pauline >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> >> > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I >> > say >> > all >> > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin >> > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly >> > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one > of >> > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a >> > nephew.I >> > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating >> > it >> > can >> > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was >> > Elizabeth >> > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers >> > went >> > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda >> > From: "diana murray" >> > <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> >> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM >> > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> > >> > >> >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth >> > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open > as >> > I >> > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other > Samuel >> > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the >> > 1851 >> > census? >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> > >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

William was born in Llanelly, on the 1861 census he has a daughter Ann born in Birkenhead in 1855 and a son William Henry also born Birkenhead in 1857. I have seen Benjamin and Winnifred which I think could be a link as the name Winnifred appears in the Burkey family that went to live in Essex. William Henry married a Birkenhead girl called Margaret Hulmston in about 1878. I cant find any trace of William or William Henry after 1881 census. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > I looked in my baptism index for Llanelly this is what is given. > > Llanelly parish church baptisms > 1828 9th June - William Samuel son Benjamin and Winnifred > 1818 9th June - Mary Samuel dau Benjamin and Winnifred > > there is also a Benjamin and Gwenllian as their son James was baptised on > 17th Feb 1832 > > It only goes to 1832 so did not see Elizabeth Samuel.....strange thing is > that there are 2 Benjamin Samuel's there, but no marriage in either Carms, > Pembs, Cards or Glam 1813-1837 > > Pauline > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > > > Benjamins occupation was Coppersmith and William was definitely older by > > about 8 or 9 years according to census for 1861/71/81/91. William seems to > > have settled here in Birkenhead and lived near Elizabeth and her family. > > Linda > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > > > > >> Hi Linda > >> > >> What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? > >> > >> I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 > >> > >> Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f > >> sch 52 page 14 Mill Street > >> Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly > >> Thomas son 28 Llanelly > >> Susanna dau 24 Llanelly > >> John son 18 Llanelly > >> Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly > >> William son 4 Llanelly > >> > >> or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a > >> 115 Swab > >> Jane Samuel head 55 > >> Ann dau 26 > >> John son 19 > >> Elizabeth dau 17 > >> William son 13 > >> > >> Did the whole family move, do you know > >> > >> Pauline > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> > >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > >> > >> > >> > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I > >> > say > >> > all > >> > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and Benjamin > >> > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born Llanelly > >> > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census one > > of > >> > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a > >> > nephew.I > >> > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how frustrating > >> > it > >> > can > >> > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was > >> > Elizabeth > >> > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his brothers > >> > went > >> > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda > >> > From: "diana murray" > >> > <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> > >> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > >> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM > >> > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > >> > > >> > > >> >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or Elizabeth > >> > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes open > > as > >> > I > >> > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other > > Samuel > >> > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the > >> > 1851 > >> > census? > >> >> > >> >> Diana > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >> >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >> > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > >> > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >> > > >> > >> > >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >> I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research > >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > > questions & Quiries. > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >

Linda, did Elizabeth return to live in Llanelly with her husband? Perhaps William went to Liverpool first and Elizabeth went to join him for a short stay or even to find employment there.....perhaps he is not here in 1851 but perhaps she could be? Only 3 Benjamin Samuel's in 1851 but all children.....Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Pauline I have'nt got a clue where they were in 1851.According to 1861 > census for Birkenhead William was 34 birth date about 1827 he was coal > dealer, His wifes name was Ellen, she was born about 1818 and was aged 43. > She was born in Llanyngendl Anglesey. Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > >> Linda when was William Samuel born? What are the details from the census >> that you have, do you think they were still in Llanelly in 1851 Pauline >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> >> > Benjamins occupation was Coppersmith and William was definitely older >> > by >> > about 8 or 9 years according to census for 1861/71/81/91. William seems > to >> > have settled here in Birkenhead and lived near Elizabeth and her >> > family. >> > Linda >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> >> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:59 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> > >> > >> >> Hi Linda >> >> >> >> What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? >> >> >> >> I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 >> >> >> >> Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f >> >> sch 52 page 14 Mill Street >> >> Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly >> >> Thomas son 28 Llanelly >> >> Susanna dau 24 Llanelly >> >> John son 18 Llanelly >> >> Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly >> >> William son 4 Llanelly >> >> >> >> or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a >> >> 115 Swab >> >> Jane Samuel head 55 >> >> Ann dau 26 >> >> John son 19 >> >> Elizabeth dau 17 >> >> William son 13 >> >> >> >> Did the whole family move, do you know >> >> >> >> Pauline >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> >> >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I >> >> > say >> >> > all >> >> > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and > Benjamin >> >> > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born > Llanelly >> >> > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census > one >> > of >> >> > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a >> >> > nephew.I >> >> > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how >> >> > frustrating >> >> > it >> >> > can >> >> > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was >> >> > Elizabeth >> >> > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his > brothers >> >> > went >> >> > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda >> >> > From: "diana murray" >> >> > <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> >> >> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM >> >> > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or > Elizabeth >> >> > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes > open >> > as >> >> > I >> >> > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other >> > Samuel >> >> > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the >> >> > 1851 >> >> > census? >> >> >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> >> > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research >> > questions & Quiries. >> > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >> > >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >> >> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Where did William say he was born......when and where were they childrn born so that we will have a little clue where he could have been in 1851... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > Pauline I have'nt got a clue where they were in 1851.According to 1861 > census for Birkenhead William was 34 birth date about 1827 he was coal > dealer, His wifes name was Ellen, she was born about 1818 and was aged 43. > She was born in Llanyngendl Anglesey. Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly > > >> Linda when was William Samuel born? What are the details from the census >> that you have, do you think they were still in Llanelly in 1851 Pauline >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> >> > Benjamins occupation was Coppersmith and William was definitely older >> > by >> > about 8 or 9 years according to census for 1861/71/81/91. William seems > to >> > have settled here in Birkenhead and lived near Elizabeth and her >> > family. >> > Linda >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames@onvol.net> >> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:59 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> > >> > >> >> Hi Linda >> >> >> >> What was Benjamin's occupation on the marriage certificate? >> >> >> >> I have these possible Elizabeth Samuel's in 1851 >> >> >> >> Llanelly 1851 dist 2,1f >> >> sch 52 page 14 Mill Street >> >> Mary Samuel head wid 48 shoemakers widow born Llanelly >> >> Thomas son 28 Llanelly >> >> Susanna dau 24 Llanelly >> >> John son 18 Llanelly >> >> Elizabeth dau 16 Llanelly >> >> William son 4 Llanelly >> >> >> >> or in Berwick hamlet dist 3a >> >> 115 Swab >> >> Jane Samuel head 55 >> >> Ann dau 26 >> >> John son 19 >> >> Elizabeth dau 17 >> >> William son 13 >> >> >> >> Did the whole family move, do you know >> >> >> >> Pauline >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "gordon myddelton" <gordon.myddelton@ntlworld.com> >> >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi Pauline, I dont know when Benjamin was born, married or died as I >> >> > say >> >> > all >> >> > I have is Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Burkey, and > Benjamin >> >> > Burkey's birth certificate. Also an older brother William born > Llanelly >> >> > about 1829-31.I know he was her brother because on the 1871 census > one >> > of >> >> > John and Elizabeth's son's was staying with him and was named as a >> >> > nephew.I >> >> > know I dont have a lot to go on but I'm sure you know how >> >> > frustrating >> >> > it >> >> > can >> >> > be when you can't find the information. My Grandfather Richard was >> >> > Elizabeth >> >> > and John's seventh and youngest son and died in 1954, all his > brothers >> >> > went >> >> > to live in Essex so I have no one to ask.Linda >> >> > From: "diana murray" >> >> > <littlewarrenfarm@fletchingcommon.fsbusiness.co.uk> >> >> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:26 AM >> >> > Subject: [Cmn-L] Samuel family Llanelly >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Hello Linda - I forgot to say that there was no Benjamin or > Elizabeth >> >> > Samuel in the family I found yesterday. But I will keep my eyes > open >> > as >> >> > I >> >> > go through the Llanelly 1841 census for you. I found four other >> > Samuel >> >> > families but no sign of your ones so far. Do you have them on the >> >> > 1851 >> >> > census? >> >> >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> >> > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research >> > questions & Quiries. >> > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >> > >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >> >> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hello Pauline and Linda - I have just been through the 1841 Hengoed and Westfa censuses and cannot find a Benjamin or Elizabeth Samuel. I did find a marriage of Benjamin Samuel and Sarah William 24/4/1836 and thought it might be yours Linda or mine. Hope this does not muddy the waters. Diana