Helen Do you only have the 1881 census......you need to go back through the census to find them.... I have Ben Davies in 1851......maybe John Davies at home with his parents too.... Conwil Caio 1851 census dist 7 sch 63 page 17 Tynycoed Mary Jones head mar 68 farmers wife born Conwil Caio Benjamin Davies 31 son/law farmers s/law born Pencarreg Mary Davies dau 32 born Conwil Caio Margaret Davies dau 6 born Conwil Caio Margaret Davies dau 4 (same name twice??) born Conwil Caio Elizabeth Davies dau 2 born Conwil I have a John Davies of the correct age same district sch 57 page 16 Llwyndynied John Davies aged 28 brother William 26 parents John Davies 72 born Llanddewi Brevi Cards wife Elizabeth aged 65 born Conwil Caio as were John and William...... Have you found any of these in 1841 census..... If you can locate them in each census you should be able to tie them up somehow......perhaps John was unmarried and the same age as the grandfather but he was only 51 when Elizabeth was born......I shall see what I can find.... get back to you Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <HMC001@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] Needing Help & Inspiration!! > This is going to be a long email.............but I badly need help, > guidance, inspiration from all that have been doing this family genealogy > longer than > me, more likely! > > OK, firstly I'm trying to find ancestors from my great grandmother. I > know > she was born 1874 (Elizabeth Davies), in Caio. I recently visited and > found > her gravestone. However, having died in early 30's getting the > certificate > will not show birth dates, because I've learnt they were not put down > until > the late 60's. I know when she married (have certificate). > > Found her on 1881 Census - this is when the trouble begins. I give it at > end of this long note..(bare with me, I'm desperate!). It states that > she is > granddaughter of head of household. Have researched grandparents. All I > can > find from census is that the grandparents had 3 daughters and 1 son. On > the > 1881 Census, it also shows a lodger namely a John Davies. However, I > found > his gravestone on my recent trip and got his death certificate, and it > showed > that my Elizabeth's husband was at the death?! She also put this man > (John) > as her father on her marriage certificate. However, on researching him, > he > always stayed single, no news on any marriage, and my query is...if he is > the > father, how come he is very similar in age to the grandfather, as > portrayed > on 1881 Census??? I thought, ok perhaps he's a brother - but I can't > marry > them up - the Benjamin was away by 1841 and I cannot place him with > John's > family, and secondly, why is it put down on 1881 Census that she is the > granddaughter of the head of the household, if a) it wasn't true and b) > the lodger was > later put down on records as the father????? > > The 1881 Census is correct, on my trip I found a cousin I didn't know I > had! > He confirmed. > > I understand you don't always take Census as gospel, but which should I > follow - the possibility that John is the father, or rather that Benjamin > is the > grandfather?????? > How are the two men related to Elizabeth???? > Last year, I contacted the registry office in Carmarthenshire - they were > very helpful, when I tried to find a certificate with John the father and > no > name for mother, they sent me the only certificate with father John and it > was > the wrong one! > > Any advice warmly appreciated. Researcher beginning to pull hair out!! > > Many thanks > > Helen > Here is 1881 Entry: > > Dwelling: Glanrhyd > Census Place: Conwil Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Source: FHL Film 1342298 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5386 Folio 64 > Page > 10 > Marr Age Sex Birthplace > Benjamin DAVIES M 57 M Pencarreg, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: Head > Occ: Farm Labourer > Mary DAVIES M 62 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: Wife > Occ: Labourers Wife > Thomas DAVIES 13 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: G Son > Occ: Scholar > Elizabeth DAVIES 7 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: G Daur > Occ: Scholar > John DAVIES U 58 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales > Rel: Lodger > Occ: Farm Labourer > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

No Problem, let me know what you think about it......quite a few members are indexing 1841 so be even better......I am currently indexing Carmarthen Town baptisms from 1800 onwards.......so all to add to the databases... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnnaDinahThomas@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] help - carpenter or ag labourer > Pauline. I'm afraid I was being a bit of a nujisance., yet again. All's > ok > now and I'm in. I'd already bookmarked the link from Richard's email but > had > for gotten all about it. Sorry about that.Anna > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hi Pauline, I checked 1841 and all I could find was Benjamin's wife, Mary Jones at Tynycoed with parents and brother. As the first child was born c.1845, I assume they would have married around 1843-1845. I cannot find Benjamin on 1841, his birth was Pencarreg. I found them 1851 living at the same place as Mary's family in 1841. Tynycoed Mary Jones, Head 68 Benjamin Davies, son-in-law, 31, Pencarreg Mary Davies, wife, 32, caio Margaret Davies, dau, 6, caio (this I believe should read Mary) Margaret Davies, dau 4 Elizabeth Davies, dau 2 Diana, kindly sent me 1861 off list. Shows above family without mother-in-law living at Maisynhaidd with an additional son, Rees aged 9. I suppose I'm left with trying to search for their marriage certificate. I was wondering if one of their daughters could have possibly been the mother of Elizabeth, and because from 1881 census she is put as a grandchild, i thought all i could do was search this family in the hope they point to my Elizabeth. As for the John, perhaps, albeit he's been put down as father on marriage and death certificate, he may be a red herring and just thought as a father? Regards Helen

Anna, are you using the same email as you are a member with, I am sure I have the 'gingerpaw' one in my member database......which one do you want to use as only the one email address can be used as that is the one on the database, its to stop people accessing if not the correct email address...... thanks Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnnaDinahThomas@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] help - carpenter or ag labourer > Pauline. I can't get it in. It says I've got to be a member tol access > the database! I got a reminder email which gave the details I'd > attempted to > get in with before and are the same I'e used for years. > > Anna > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >

Hi Pauline, Thanks for your reply. I attached 1881 to end of original email. If you want again, please say. All that you give is all that I have found on Census so far - same ones. Can't see how Benjamin and John tie up though. Look forward to hearing from you. Regards Helen

Anna, you will have a message from Richards computer informing you if correct....try and see if you can get in, but he's having lunch at the moment......so perhaps not added if you have just done it.... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnnaDinahThomas@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] help - carpenter or ag labourer > Pauline > > Do you mean that new link on the Carmarthenshire FHS website? If so, > I've > just done so but am unsure whether it's worked. I'll check it out. > Thanks. > > Anna > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >

This is going to be a long email.............but I badly need help, guidance, inspiration from all that have been doing this family genealogy longer than me, more likely! OK, firstly I'm trying to find ancestors from my great grandmother. I know she was born 1874 (Elizabeth Davies), in Caio. I recently visited and found her gravestone. However, having died in early 30's getting the certificate will not show birth dates, because I've learnt they were not put down until the late 60's. I know when she married (have certificate). Found her on 1881 Census - this is when the trouble begins. I give it at end of this long note..(bare with me, I'm desperate!). It states that she is granddaughter of head of household. Have researched grandparents. All I can find from census is that the grandparents had 3 daughters and 1 son. On the 1881 Census, it also shows a lodger namely a John Davies. However, I found his gravestone on my recent trip and got his death certificate, and it showed that my Elizabeth's husband was at the death?! She also put this man (John) as her father on her marriage certificate. However, on researching him, he always stayed single, no news on any marriage, and my query is...if he is the father, how come he is very similar in age to the grandfather, as portrayed on 1881 Census??? I thought, ok perhaps he's a brother - but I can't marry them up - the Benjamin was away by 1841 and I cannot place him with John's family, and secondly, why is it put down on 1881 Census that she is the granddaughter of the head of the household, if a) it wasn't true and b) the lodger was later put down on records as the father????? The 1881 Census is correct, on my trip I found a cousin I didn't know I had! He confirmed. I understand you don't always take Census as gospel, but which should I follow - the possibility that John is the father, or rather that Benjamin is the grandfather?????? How are the two men related to Elizabeth???? Last year, I contacted the registry office in Carmarthenshire - they were very helpful, when I tried to find a certificate with John the father and no name for mother, they sent me the only certificate with father John and it was the wrong one! Any advice warmly appreciated. Researcher beginning to pull hair out!! Many thanks Helen Here is 1881 Entry: Dwelling: Glanrhyd Census Place: Conwil Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Source: FHL Film 1342298 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5386 Folio 64 Page 10 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Benjamin DAVIES M 57 M Pencarreg, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Head Occ: Farm Labourer Mary DAVIES M 62 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Wife Occ: Labourers Wife Thomas DAVIES 13 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: G Son Occ: Scholar Elizabeth DAVIES 7 F Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: G Daur Occ: Scholar John DAVIES U 58 M Cayo, Carmarthen, Wales Rel: Lodger Occ: Farm Labourer

me again..... Anna have you registered with members on-line yet? Lots of interesting info there now including some 1841 parishes - some still being indexed......more to come for 2006. Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnnaDinahThomas@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] help - carpenter or ag labourer > Hi Pauline > > Thanks for that. I suppose that someone with carpenting skills could be > employed on the farm as a general labourer! This is the only John/David > Davies > connection in 1833 I have found, I think thanks to you. However, if a > child > wasn't baptised presumably there would be no record at that time? > However, > is that likely, I'm hoping not. Now, if John had a younger sibling born > five > years later ........ that would be very helpful, but I haven't come > across > such sibling so far. > > Best wishes > Anna > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hi Anna Let us know where you are looking and perhaps I or someone else can help you.......yes, my g.g.grandmother was born before registration so I ordered a birth certificate for her younger brother, they were all baptised so that did help but I wanted the mothers maiden name....I sent for the cert from GRO it is super-imposed onto a certificate and still difficult to read....think her maiden name was Halls.....that was in Kent though not Wales.... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnnaDinahThomas@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] help - carpenter or ag labourer > Hi Pauline > > Thanks for that. I suppose that someone with carpenting skills could be > employed on the farm as a general labourer! This is the only John/David > Davies > connection in 1833 I have found, I think thanks to you. However, if a > child > wasn't baptised presumably there would be no record at that time? > However, > is that likely, I'm hoping not. Now, if John had a younger sibling born > five > years later ........ that would be very helpful, but I haven't come > across > such sibling so far. > > Best wishes > Anna > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >

Hi Anna Do not know if it will help but, my William Thomas of Aberdaron North Wales occupation was a farmer/joiner mid 1800's.......so could be an ag lab and carpenter.......a lot can happen in 25 years between the baptism and the marriage......census has lots of Innkeeper and collier as occupation......or another occupation etc...some did have two occupations. Do no take everything on certificates as correct, the information was only as good as the person giving the information......as I have stated before my own father in my parents marriage in 1946 gave the wrong name for his father and occupation.......mainly because he died when he was 6......did not say deceased either!!! He said his father was a carpenter when if fact he was a labourer...... Just a little insight of what I know in my own family.... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnnaDinahThomas@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 10:55 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] help - carpenter or ag labourer > The David Davies I believe to be my great great grandfather is shown as a > carpenter when his son John, my great-grandfather was baptised in 1833. > When > his son John married Elizabeth Rees in 1858 David is shown as an > agricultural > labourer. Would this make sense? I'm hoping I've found the right > family. > TIA. > > Anna Thomas > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Pauline. I'm afraid I was being a bit of a nujisance., yet again. All's ok now and I'm in. I'd already bookmarked the link from Richard's email but had for gotten all about it. Sorry about that.Anna

Pauline. I can't get it in. It says I've got to be a member tol access the database! I got a reminder email which gave the details I'd attempted to get in with before and are the same I'e used for years. Anna

Hi again Pauline The only hard fact I have is that John married Elizabeth Rees in 1858 aged 25 or 26 (I can't remember which) and that his father was David Davies, an ag lab. Census records give John as being born in Pencarreg! Anna

Pauline Do you mean that new link on the Carmarthenshire FHS website? If so, I've just done so but am unsure whether it's worked. I'll check it out. Thanks. Anna

Hi Pauline Thanks for that. I suppose that someone with carpenting skills could be employed on the farm as a general labourer! This is the only John/David Davies connection in 1833 I have found, I think thanks to you. However, if a child wasn't baptised presumably there would be no record at that time? However, is that likely, I'm hoping not. Now, if John had a younger sibling born five years later ........ that would be very helpful, but I haven't come across such sibling so far. Best wishes Anna

The David Davies I believe to be my great great grandfather is shown as a carpenter when his son John, my great-grandfather was baptised in 1833. When his son John married Elizabeth Rees in 1858 David is shown as an agricultural labourer. Would this make sense? I'm hoping I've found the right family. TIA. Anna Thomas

Hi Sandie Why don't you write to Capel Als and see if they can enlighten you, there are quite a few wardens, as I stated before they allow music examinations in their vestry and the wardens are in charge of the sittings.......they are very helpful ...... Its worth a try......Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandie Guthrie" <sandieg@telusplanet.net> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:55 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] Capel Als > To everyone that answered my earlier question on Capel Als I thank you > very > much. > > To Jim Joseph: > > If you really don't mind looking in your fabulous book for me it would be > appreciated(and in all honesty a translation would be needed) > >>From a newspaper cutting I have for my g.grandparents 50th wedding > anniversary it shows the following: > > My g.grandparents were James Richard Hopkins who married Charlotte Jane > Harris in 1893 at St John's Church, Skewan. It also states that he was a > senior deacon at Capel Als at the time of there 50th anniversary in1943. > I > have been in contact with someone on another list that remembers the > Hopkins > family at Capal Al's and I know my mother always insisted that her mother > had a baby girl stillborn that they named Mary and she was buried at Capal > Als. > > I am slowly gathering information on Capal Al's and as stated above my > g.grandfather was a senior deacon and he was also a builder in Llanelli > for > many years and the house my grandmother lived in on James St was built by > him. > > > > Anyway anything you might find would be appreciated. > > > > Sandie > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Thanks Jim, be nice to have photographs for the web site...... great Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph, Jim" <Jim.Joseph@actel.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 8:03 PM Subject: RE: [Cmn-L] Capel Als > Hi Sandie, > > You're welcome! I also have some pictures of both the inside and the > outside of Capel Als that I could E-mail you. Perhaps Pauline might > want to post some of them on the site. > > I'll send you a translation of anything I find on the Hopkins family you > mentioned. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandie Guthrie [mailto:sandieg@telusplanet.net] > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 11:56 AM > To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Cmn-L] Capel Als > > To everyone that answered my earlier question on Capel Als I thank you > very much. > > To Jim Joseph: > > If you really don't mind looking in your fabulous book for me it would > be appreciated(and in all honesty a translation would be needed) > >>From a newspaper cutting I have for my g.grandparents 50th wedding > anniversary it shows the following: > > My g.grandparents were James Richard Hopkins who married Charlotte Jane > Harris in 1893 at St John's Church, Skewan. It also states that he was > a senior deacon at Capel Als at the time of there 50th anniversary > in1943. I have been in contact with someone on another list that > remembers the Hopkins family at Capal Al's and I know my mother always > insisted that her mother had a baby girl stillborn that they named Mary > and she was buried at Capal Als. > > I am slowly gathering information on Capal Al's and as stated above my > g.grandfather was a senior deacon and he was also a builder in Llanelli > for many years and the house my grandmother lived in on James St was > built by him. > > > > Anyway anything you might find would be appreciated. > > > > Sandie > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot > find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >

Hi Sandie, There WAS a Hopkins deacon in 1943, but here is a translation of a paragraph from page 96 of Capel Als 1780-1980 by Maurice Loader: "New deacons were elected three times during his ministry [that would be the ministry of Rev. D. J. Davies, at Capel Als from 1916-1958]. In 1929 were elected the Masters Griff Davies, D. O. Evans, Thomas Hopkins, David Nicholas, W. E. Phillips, Christmas Rees, William Williams (Gofryn), William Williams (63 Marble Hall Road), William Henry Williams, and John Williams (Pretoria)." The next paragraph says that in 1944 twelve new deacons came to office and names them. I didn't see any other references to the Hopkins surname in that chapter, but I'll check more carefully. Of course, it is entirely possible that the record is wrong! Regards, Jim Joseph -----Original Message----- From: Sandie Guthrie To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 8/19/05 10:55 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] Capel Als To everyone that answered my earlier question on Capel Als I thank you very much. To Jim Joseph: If you really don't mind looking in your fabulous book for me it would be appreciated(and in all honesty a translation would be needed) >From a newspaper cutting I have for my g.grandparents 50th wedding anniversary it shows the following: My g.grandparents were James Richard Hopkins who married Charlotte Jane Harris in 1893 at St John's Church, Skewan. It also states that he was a senior deacon at Capel Als at the time of there 50th anniversary in1943. I have been in contact with someone on another list that remembers the Hopkins family at Capal Al's and I know my mother always insisted that her mother had a baby girl stillborn that they named Mary and she was buried at Capal Als. I am slowly gathering information on Capal Al's and as stated above my g.grandfather was a senior deacon and he was also a builder in Llanelli for many years and the house my grandmother lived in on James St was built by him. Anyway anything you might find would be appreciated. Sandie ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk

Helen and Diana Elaine only covers Llanelli registration district, it you need the carmarthenshire one send to Registrars@carmarthenshire.gov.uk hope this helps Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <HMC001@aol.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Marriage > Hi Diana, > > Tried that email address you gave to Elaine Hopkins but keeps boucing > back! > > Regards > > Helen > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >