Hi Greg, My husband was also dark (almost white now), & would "first foot" in neighbours' houses to bring them luck for the year. It was also regarded lucky to give a piece of coal to the household. Coal not so readily available today as mines have mostly closed. HJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Jones" <Greg.Jones@usu.edu> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:29 PM Subject: New Year Customs > My Grandfather Jones would always walk outside just before midnight and then > come back in, saying that it was good luck when the first person over the > threshold in the new year was tall and dark. > > To tell the truth, he wasn't very tall, and in later years his hair was > white. Nonetheless, I felt that he was doing his best to bring us a good > new year. > > Greg Jones, Associate Professor > Department of Computer Science, Utah State University > 4205 Old Main Hill, Logan, Utah 84322-4205 > Phone: 435-797-3267 > Fax: 435-797-3265 > Email: Greg.Jones@usu.edu > Homepage: http://www.cs.usu.edu/~jones/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: H. Jenkins [mailto:heuly@btinternet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 1:26 PM > To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Cmn-L] OT New Year Customs > > My Grandmother would never > a. Hang up a Calendar before 1st.January > b.Write any entries in a diary before 1st.January > c. Do any laundry on 1st.January ,as "it would wash away your luck" > HJ > > ______________________________ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/200 - Release Date: 12/14/05

My Grandad had many customes that some would call superstitions. Some he said came straight out of welsh culture and others he said have been around since "the begining of time". Most of them I don't remember, because I thought they were silly, when I was a child. One of them is: Giving a knife as a gift will several a relationship. (This one my Grandad and my Dad were very serious about) Barbara > [Original Message] > From: Pauline James <paulinejames@onvol.net> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: 12/13/2005 11:09:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] OT New Year Customs > > Yes, that is true you cannot hang a calendar before 1st Jan as its > unlucky.......same with the laundry.... > > Pauline > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "H. Jenkins" <heuly@btinternet.com> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:26 PM > Subject: [Cmn-L] OT New Year Customs > > > > My Grandmother would never > > a. Hang up a Calendar before 1st.January > > b.Write any entries in a diary before 1st.January > > c. Do any laundry on 1st.January ,as "it would wash away your luck" > > HJ > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/05 > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research > > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

I've got to admit I never change the calendar before the day and that's all the year round. I also try never to post-date anything. I suppose its a morbid superstition that we may not make it if we do. I hope everyone has a happy new year despite all these pitfalls Christopher ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. Jenkins" <heuly@btinternet.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:26 PM Subject: OT New Year Customs > My Grandmother would never > a. Hang up a Calendar before 1st.January > b.Write any entries in a diary before 1st.January > c. Do any laundry on 1st.January ,as "it would wash away your luck" > HJ > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/05 > > ______________________________

Hey She sounds like one very smart lady to me. Sue Kinsella-Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. Jenkins" <heuly@btinternet.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:56 AM Subject: [Cmn-L] OT New Year Customs > My Grandmother would never > a. Hang up a Calendar before 1st.January > b.Write any entries in a diary before 1st.January > c. Do any laundry on 1st.January ,as "it would wash away your luck" > HJ > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/05 > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Yes, that is true you cannot hang a calendar before 1st Jan as its unlucky.......same with the laundry.... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. Jenkins" <heuly@btinternet.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:26 PM Subject: [Cmn-L] OT New Year Customs > My Grandmother would never > a. Hang up a Calendar before 1st.January > b.Write any entries in a diary before 1st.January > c. Do any laundry on 1st.January ,as "it would wash away your luck" > HJ > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/05 > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

My Grandmother would never a. Hang up a Calendar before 1st.January b.Write any entries in a diary before 1st.January c. Do any laundry on 1st.January ,as "it would wash away your luck" HJ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/05

My Grandfather Jones would always walk outside just before midnight and then come back in, saying that it was good luck when the first person over the threshold in the new year was tall and dark. To tell the truth, he wasn't very tall, and in later years his hair was white. Nonetheless, I felt that he was doing his best to bring us a good new year. Greg Jones, Associate Professor Department of Computer Science, Utah State University 4205 Old Main Hill, Logan, Utah 84322-4205 Phone: 435-797-3267 Fax: 435-797-3265 Email: Greg.Jones@usu.edu Homepage: http://www.cs.usu.edu/~jones/ -----Original Message----- From: H. Jenkins [mailto:heuly@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 1:26 PM To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Cmn-L] OT New Year Customs My Grandmother would never a. Hang up a Calendar before 1st.January b.Write any entries in a diary before 1st.January c. Do any laundry on 1st.January ,as "it would wash away your luck" HJ

Hi Ray Thank you SO much for all your work! It's very exciting to find out the dates that they arrived in Australia. I'll check the details that I have and let you know the ages. There is a family story that there are connections with Canada which may have been where they were married... Many thanks again. Hwyl Margaret. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Edmunds" <Wattle@iprimus.com.au> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 1:45 AM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Queensland BDM > Hi Margaret, > The reg. number for Frederick is 1940/804 83 44 > I did a quick check of immigrants and found two HATTE (no variations): > Frederick age 19 arr. on the Duke of Westminster January 11, 1886 at > Brisbane. > Joseph " 21 " " " Dunbar Castle October 26, 1880 also > at Brisbane. > I searched the Qld marriages from 1829 to 1930 for a marriage of John > Nicholas and Amelia Shaw without success. I've also searched all states' > Pioneer Indexes up to 1888/9 again without success. > They could have been married in another state after this date. Could you > give me some indication of there ages, which would narrow the search. > Hope this helps. > > Ray > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "SM Coomey" <smcoomey@bigfoot.com> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Queensland BDM > > > > Hi Ray, > > I thought you'd be interested to know that I've received the marriage > > certificate, and it makes very interesting reading! > > I notice that some of the information you sent me now seems particularly > > relevant, especially "Hatte: > > > > Frederick if. James m. Annie Kirkwood 26.6.1940" > > This would appear to be the brother of the Groom as his parents are given > as > > the above. > > > > Also the bride's Father was present at the wedding, so I should be looking > > for John NICHOLAS married to Amelia Bristow Shaw,as they were in > Australia, > > but the Hatte parents not necessarily there at that time. > > I'd be very grateful if you would send me the relevant reg nos . > > many thanks > > Hwyl > > Margaret. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ray Edmunds" <Wattle@iprimus.com.au> > > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:40 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Queensland BDM > > > > > > > > > > Hi Margaret, > > > > First, $24.50 is the total cost and all certs are exempt GST > > > > > > > > Secondly, with regard to the HATTES.. I couldn't find any further B,D > & > > M > > > > for that family, so it is possible they all returned to England, but > > that > > > > would have to be verified. > > > > I did find a number of other HATTE events, which may be of interest: > > > > Births: > > > > To Frederick and Annie De Courcey > > > > Emily Ilma . 2.12. 1906 reg. 1907/ 00004 > > > > Stephen Francis Charles 19.12.1912 erg. 1913/ 000011 > > > > Wilton Edward Kenneth 2.11.14 reg. 1914/000189. > > > > > > > > Deaths: > > > > Hatty: > > > > James McPherson f. Alexander m. Georgina Well 6.5.1944 > > > > Hatte: > > > > Frederick f. James m. Annie Kirkwood 26.6.1940 > > > > Kenneth Kirkwood f. William Kirkwood m.eliz.Theresa Kath. Flaherty > > > > 2.11.1951 > > > > Stephen Francis Chas. parents above under births 27.12.1952 > > > > Gertrude Frances August Nehmer m. Catherine Mulligan 10.12.1956 > > > > > > > > Marriages: > > > > Hatte (also Hattie), Frederick James m Gertrude Fran. Nehmer 1954 > > > > > > > > Births index end at 1919, marriages 1956 and deaths 1964 for > Queensland. > > > > I have the reg numbers if you want them. > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 > > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > >

Hi Margaret, The reg. number for Frederick is 1940/804 83 44 I did a quick check of immigrants and found two HATTE (no variations): Frederick age 19 arr. on the Duke of Westminster January 11, 1886 at Brisbane. Joseph " 21 " " " Dunbar Castle October 26, 1880 also at Brisbane. I searched the Qld marriages from 1829 to 1930 for a marriage of John Nicholas and Amelia Shaw without success. I've also searched all states' Pioneer Indexes up to 1888/9 again without success. They could have been married in another state after this date. Could you give me some indication of there ages, which would narrow the search. Hope this helps. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "SM Coomey" <smcoomey@bigfoot.com> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Queensland BDM > Hi Ray, > I thought you'd be interested to know that I've received the marriage > certificate, and it makes very interesting reading! > I notice that some of the information you sent me now seems particularly > relevant, especially "Hatte: > > > Frederick if. James m. Annie Kirkwood 26.6.1940" > This would appear to be the brother of the Groom as his parents are given as > the above. > > Also the bride's Father was present at the wedding, so I should be looking > for John NICHOLAS married to Amelia Bristow Shaw,as they were in Australia, > but the Hatte parents not necessarily there at that time. > I'd be very grateful if you would send me the relevant reg nos . > many thanks > Hwyl > Margaret. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ray Edmunds" <Wattle@iprimus.com.au> > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:40 AM > > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Queensland BDM > > > > > > > Hi Margaret, > > > First, $24.50 is the total cost and all certs are exempt GST > > > > > > Secondly, with regard to the HATTES.. I couldn't find any further B,D & > M > > > for that family, so it is possible they all returned to England, but > that > > > would have to be verified. > > > I did find a number of other HATTE events, which may be of interest: > > > Births: > > > To Frederick and Annie De Courcey > > > Emily Ilma . 2.12. 1906 reg. 1907/ 00004 > > > Stephen Francis Charles 19.12.1912 erg. 1913/ 000011 > > > Wilton Edward Kenneth 2.11.14 reg. 1914/000189. > > > > > > Deaths: > > > Hatty: > > > James McPherson f. Alexander m. Georgina Well 6.5.1944 > > > Hatte: > > > Frederick f. James m. Annie Kirkwood 26.6.1940 > > > Kenneth Kirkwood f. William Kirkwood m.eliz.Theresa Kath. Flaherty > > > 2.11.1951 > > > Stephen Francis Chas. parents above under births 27.12.1952 > > > Gertrude Frances August Nehmer m. Catherine Mulligan 10.12.1956 > > > > > > Marriages: > > > Hatte (also Hattie), Frederick James m Gertrude Fran. Nehmer 1954 > > > > > > Births index end at 1919, marriages 1956 and deaths 1964 for Queensland. > > > I have the reg numbers if you want them. > > > Regards. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 > >

Thank you so much for the help. I appreciate the input. I have been without a phone line for several days and apologise for the delay. It is very encouraging to see that the farm is still in operation although it remains to be seen if these are the same family. Once again my thanks Sue Kinsella ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alayne and Glen Jenkins" <jinxs104@yahoo.co.uk> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] 1841 Query. > Hi Sue > > Firstly, try asking for a lookup (found on GENUKI, > lLANDDEUSANT) on the following giving as much > information as you can. It might also be useful to > look for burials of THOMAS that identify the farm. SEE > BELOW > Llanddeusant. BT's for 1775-1815. A private database > which includes all baptisms, marriages and burials for > the period shown is available for lookups on the > South/West Wales Lookup Exchange at > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > > The farm is called 'Cil-gerddan' it can be found on > http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ > at Grid Ref: 275442,226067 > to see it click coordinate and paste in the grid > reference. You can also get a modern map and an aerial > photo. > > If the farm was owned or leased by the family for > sometime you may be able to trace them through this. > > Incidentily the farm is still in use see > http://archive.thisisthewestcountry.co.uk/2004/09/08/12077.html > > Where under the pig competition you find this - > Gilt or Boar born Jan/Feb 2004. 1st: 27, Judith > Harvey, Cilgerddan, Llanddeusant, Llangadog, > Carmarthenshire, SA19 9YN > > Hope this helps. > > > Glen Jenkins > > > > > --- PT & S Kinsella <kinceller@iprimus.com.au> wrote: > >> Can someone answer this please, Having found the >> husband of Mary THOMAS, to be Thomas THOMAS, I >> assumed they would be related and so started to look >> for the baptism of Mary. I find There are a number >> of possibilities but not one of them is a THOMAS. >> possible fathers are >> Morgan DAVID: Thomas LEWIS: Thomas RYTHERCH: >> There are no mothers and I am at a loss as to where >> to go from here. >> Thank You Sue Kinsella >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alayne and Glen Jenkins" >> <jinxs104@yahoo.co.uk> >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:10 AM >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] 1841 Query. >> >> >> > Sue >> > >> > Another christening given possible marriage date >> > MARY THOMAS - International Genealogical Index >> > Gender: Female Christening: 24 OCT 1824 >> Llanddeusant, >> > Carmarthen, Wales >> > >> > Glen Jenkins >> > >> > --- PT & S Kinsella <kinceller@iprimus.com.au> >> wrote: >> > >> >> Can anyone find this family in 1841 for me. I had >> >> hoped to find the husband of the family in 1851, >> but >> >> now in view of the fact the the youngest child is >> >> born in 1841, have my fingers crossed and hope >> that >> >> someone can help. They are on a farm which seems >> to >> >> have various spellings. Cilgerddan being the most >> >> recent. I am in hopeful anticipation of a good >> >> result. Sue Kinsella from Australia. >> >> >> >> 1851 Cilgarhan Llanddausant Carmarthenshire >> >> Mary Thomas 1805 Head widow 46 farmer of >> 82 >> >> Acres Llanddausaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Mary Thomas 1826 Daug Un 25 >> >> Llanddausaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Margaret Thomas 1829 Daug Un 22 >> Llanddausaint, >> >> Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Jane Thomas 1831 Daug Un 20 >> >> Llanddausaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Elizabeth Thomas 1833 Daug Un 18 >> Llanddausaint, >> >> Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Thomas Thomas 1836 Son Un 15 >> Llanddausaint, >> >> Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Anne Thomas 1841 Daug Un 10 >> >> Llanddausaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Daniel Davies 1831 Serv Un agricltural >> >> servant Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> >> >> 1861 Cilgertham Llanddausant Carmarthenshire >> >> Thomas Thomas 1836 Head Un 28 Llanddausaint, >> >> Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Mary Thomas 1805 mother widow 66 farmer of >> 86 >> >> Acres Llanddausaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Mary Thomas 1826 sister Un 38 >> >> Llanddausaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> Nancy Thomas 1841 sister Un 18 >> >> Llanddausaint, Carmarthenshire, Wales >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> >> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ___________________________________________________________ >> >> > Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his >> celebrity party - >> http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/ >> > >> > >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >> > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> > >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >> >> > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with > voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Thank you to Rhodri for his informative emails about understanding Welsh place names. Although it was only of indirect help to me, I enjoyed learning about these facts. Sometimes these side issues are of much interest to those of us who are of Welsh descent but live on the other side of the world. Helen in Australia

Hello Bill This extract from "Pages from the history of Llandovery" by Alfred Theodore Arber-Cooke may be of interest to you. It is in the section on memorials in the churchyard of St Mary's church - which is in Llandovery but is the St Mary's church of LlanfairaryrBryn parish. " On the south side of the chancel, behind a radiator, two tablets in the shape of minature headstones to (1) Morgan Williams of Pentwyn in this parish, gent, who died 9th of March, 1790 aged 45 and (2) William Williams of Pentwyn in this parish, late officer of Excise, who died 12 April 1799 aged 64 There are two farms named Pentwyn in the neighbourhood. One was a smallholding on the Llandovery side of the Towy, but belonging to the Manor of Mallaen across the river in Cantref Mawr. It was included in the Hamlet of Ystrad Mynis the trans-Towy district of Llandingat parish. The other is in Llanfair ar y Bryn and this was probably the home of the Williams family. " Cheers Pat In message <299.1c6a01d.30cf2903@aol.com>, Taffywilliam@aol.com writes >Rhodri...My records show Wm.Williams marrying Rachel James, Aug.3,1828 in >Llanfair-ar-Bryn Parish Church. ( would this be church in Llandovery?) 1841 >Census lists family at Pentwyn. 1851 Census has widow and her family at >Llanfair-ar-bryn enu district 4b hamlet Rhandir Abbot. She was at same location >in >1861 and 1871 Census. She came to US ca.1882 and died 1887. Obituary stated >that she resided in same house in Pentwyn for over 55yrs. Also states she was >born in Rhandirmwyn..Appreciate your help...Bill > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research questions >& Quiries. >http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > -- Pat Powell

Look at this link it explains it. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llanfair-ar-y-Bryn/ Rhandir Abbot is part of Llanfair ar y Bryn. As I explained before Llanfair means that there is a church there dedicated to Saint Mary. In Welsh a town|hamlet named Llan[name of saint] means that there is a church there dedicated to that saint. Fair is a mutated form of Mair which is Mary. Thus the parish church is St Mary's in Llanfair ar y Bryn. The ar y Bryn is added to differentiate it from all the other places named Llanfair. Hope this helps. Rhodri -----Original Message----- From: Taffywilliam@aol.com [mailto:Taffywilliam@aol.com] Sent: 12 December 2005 19:27 To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Historic-Geographic Help Please Rhodri...My records show Wm.Williams marrying Rachel James, Aug.3,1828 in Llanfair-ar-Bryn Parish Church. ( would this be church in Llandovery?) 1841 Census lists family at Pentwyn. 1851 Census has widow and her family at Llanfair-ar-bryn enu district 4b hamlet Rhandir Abbot. She was at same location in 1861 and 1871 Census. She came to US ca.1882 and died 1887. Obituary stated that she resided in same house in Pentwyn for over 55yrs. Also states she was born in Rhandirmwyn..Appreciate your help...Bill ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research questions & Quiries. http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if this message has not been received by the intended recipient; please delete it from your system and inform: mailmaster@rhod.net thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Rhodri...My records show Wm.Williams marrying Rachel James, Aug.3,1828 in Llanfair-ar-Bryn Parish Church. ( would this be church in Llandovery?) 1841 Census lists family at Pentwyn. 1851 Census has widow and her family at Llanfair-ar-bryn enu district 4b hamlet Rhandir Abbot. She was at same location in 1861 and 1871 Census. She came to US ca.1882 and died 1887. Obituary stated that she resided in same house in Pentwyn for over 55yrs. Also states she was born in Rhandirmwyn..Appreciate your help...Bill

That's correct. Diolch Rhodri -----Original Message----- From: Taffywilliam@aol.com [mailto:Taffywilliam@aol.com] Sent: 11 December 2005 18:37 To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Historic-Geographic Help Please Rhodri...Diolch yn Fawr(hope that's correct)Will follow your good leads, do research and definitely get back with you. Bill ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot find - Contact - PeterWihl@compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if this message has not been received by the intended recipient; please delete it from your system and inform: mailmaster@rhod.net thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hello List, Is somebody in neighbourhood of Llanelli willing to take a snap for me of the headstone of my ancestors? Box cemy section 2 row 5 grave 36. Buried Mary Bowen (Roberts) died 1919 and her husband John Bowen, died 1948. In 1919 at Mina Street, Llanelli, later in Swansea. Elwyn - Netherlands.

Rhodri...Diolch yn Fawr(hope that's correct)Will follow your good leads, do research and definitely get back with you. Bill

testing quiet list

Thank you Glen, The problem I have is not knowing exactly when or where Henry Zacariah Lewis was born. The dates I have on US Census schedules are birth from anywhere between 1840-1842 and it just gives Wales as the place of birth. Henry came to the US sometime around 1866-1869 (my guess based on US census information, he first appears in Pennsylvania in 1870 and he married in Pennsylvania in around 1878) and all I know is his mother was with him here and her name was Mary. He is listed as a coal miner. A sister named Hannah b. around 1853 was also listed, not sure if this was a real sister or not, her name was Hannah, (could be Ann, Susannah, etc, or someone traveling with them to the US.) I just can't seem to pin down the where or when of his birth, but feel it's in Carmarthenshire or Glamorgan counties. There are several possiblities in the UK census years 1841 and 1851 that might fit, but without a father's name it is very difficult. I had seen the Henry Z Lewis married in Neath, but am not sure if there is a link or how to follow the trail backwards to see if there is one. I have a lot to learn about Welsh geography, parishes, etc. I appreciate any help or information from the LIST members. Best regards, Tomi Larson Oswego, NY >From: Alayne and Glen Jenkins <jinxs104@yahoo.co.uk> >Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com >To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [Cmn-L] Re Zachariah Lewis >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:28:25 +0000 (GMT) > >Hi Tomi > >Because Wales had a patronymic naming system before >surnames a number of genealogical researchers have >looked at the distribution of surnames (arising from >first names) througout Wales. The only reference I >have that answers your question is that of Rowland , >John (1999) 'The homes of Surnames in Wales' in >Rowlands J. and Rowlands S. (Eds) Second stages in >Researching Welsh Ancestry, FFHS pubs. He refers to >'Names from the Old Testament' on pages 170-71. East >Carmarthenshire and South Montgomeryshire have the >highest incidence of these names but they are used >throughout Wales and more commonly in the South than >the North. According to Rowlands this is linked to the >growth of non-conformity in Wales where (ironically in >your case) old testament names where used in place of >names of Kings and Queens. Since your name has both I >suggest that the name Zachariah is probably derived >from the lineage e.g named after grandfather/father if >it is after 1800. > >However you do not give the birth date of Henry >Zachariah Lewis. Also following on from Pam's >suggestion there is another entry in FreeBMD for >Marriages Dec 1888 >LEWIS Zachariah Henry Neath 11a 1065 > >Is there a link with this area? > >Hope this helps > >Glen Jenkins > >--- Tomi Larson <tomil23@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Pat, > > Thanks for the effort. Zacariah was the middle name > > though, so first name > > was Henry. I've heard there were certain areas in > > Wales where biblical names > > were prevelant. Any ideas on that? > > > > Tomi > > > > > > >From: Pat Powell <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> > > >Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > > >To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: [Cmn-L] Re Zachariah Lewis > > >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:45:31 +0000 > > > > > >Hello Tomi > > > > > >Hoe about this entry in FreeBMD? > > > > > >Births Mar 1841 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >Lewis Zachariah Abergavenny 26 16 > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > >Pat > > > > > > > > > > > >In message > > <BAY101-F17E36239520B7FA69E50C1BD440@phx.gbl>, Tomi > > Larson > > ><tomil23@hotmail.com> writes > > > >The full name is Henry Zacariah Lewis b. > > 1840-1842. > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Pat Powell > > > > > > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > >Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > > >http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web > > links and research questions & Quiries. > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________ >Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his celebrity party - >http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/ > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >I use Wales Genealogy CD's for my research >http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >

Hi Tomi Because Wales had a patronymic naming system before surnames a number of genealogical researchers have looked at the distribution of surnames (arising from first names) througout Wales. The only reference I have that answers your question is that of Rowland , John (1999) 'The homes of Surnames in Wales' in Rowlands J. and Rowlands S. (Eds) Second stages in Researching Welsh Ancestry, FFHS pubs. He refers to 'Names from the Old Testament' on pages 170-71. East Carmarthenshire and South Montgomeryshire have the highest incidence of these names but they are used throughout Wales and more commonly in the South than the North. According to Rowlands this is linked to the growth of non-conformity in Wales where (ironically in your case) old testament names where used in place of names of Kings and Queens. Since your name has both I suggest that the name Zachariah is probably derived from the lineage e.g named after grandfather/father if it is after 1800. However you do not give the birth date of Henry Zachariah Lewis. Also following on from Pam's suggestion there is another entry in FreeBMD for Marriages Dec 1888 LEWIS Zachariah Henry Neath 11a 1065 Is there a link with this area? Hope this helps Glen Jenkins --- Tomi Larson <tomil23@hotmail.com> wrote: > Pat, > Thanks for the effort. Zacariah was the middle name > though, so first name > was Henry. I've heard there were certain areas in > Wales where biblical names > were prevelant. Any ideas on that? > > Tomi > > > >From: Pat Powell <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> > >Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: [Cmn-L] Re Zachariah Lewis > >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:45:31 +0000 > > > >Hello Tomi > > > >Hoe about this entry in FreeBMD? > > > >Births Mar 1841 > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >Lewis Zachariah Abergavenny 26 16 > > > >Cheers > > > >Pat > > > > > > > >In message > <BAY101-F17E36239520B7FA69E50C1BD440@phx.gbl>, Tomi > Larson > ><tomil23@hotmail.com> writes > > >The full name is Henry Zacariah Lewis b. > 1840-1842. > > > > > > > >-- > >Pat Powell > > > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > >http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web > links and research questions & Quiries. > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk > > ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his celebrity party - http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/