> Richard, Please don't be offended, but I get the impression you haven't done your homework on Grenada history where it comes to the nutmeg. La Grenade and Gurney are given the credit here and can be found in the Records Office in St. George's. La Grenade's family is still living on his estate and continue with the family business involving nutmegs - these are not "may also be true" statements. I feel your statements may be "true" on a West Indies in general look at moving plants and spices, but not to Grenada itself. Are you actually aware of the British-French scene on this island in the late 1700's - not an in-general question about the islands, but this particular one? Do you know why La Grenade had the nutmegs in the first place? Please know I am not saying this in a "biting" way, but am asking your knowledge of this particular island's history with nutmegs. I don't think "we" are producing a correct statement on the history of nutmegs in Grenada at all - I think the nation of Grenada has that down pretty clear. best regards, Cindy > Hi Cindy, > > We should not take it literally that Sir Joseph Banks himself, > physically went to Grenada and planted Nutmegs, or any other crop for > that matter, or in any other of the British territories, while he was > the botanical adviser to King George III. He may have advised it, to > be grown by British colonists, because Kew Gardens had a long history > of collecting plants from around the world and studying them. Since > spices were so valuable, and the Dutch East Indies had a monopoly of > it, the English had an incentive to study it and to see where it might > be grown to the profit of the Crown and British Capitalists. Kew may > also have looked at the chemistry of the Nutmeg in terms of extracts. > > So what you say here is quite true that : "I don't think Banks ever > visited Grenada and I can say for sure he did > not introduce nutmegs - for one, he was a collector of plants for KEW > and then encouraged via prizes for others to plant specific species on > the islands." > > And what you say here may also be true. That: > > "Louis La Grenade, a French mulatto planter in the late 1700's is > actually the first successful planter on the > island to grow the spice." If we can establish when La Granade > actually began growing, the spice and if it was before 1782, then he > has the credit, but for French growers, that is, as far as the British > were concerned. > > When the British wrote the history of Nutmeg in the Island they would > give credit to a Britisher, especially if his production ended up in > the British Market. So what you say here can also be true that: > > "A British planter named Gurney .... is given credit for introducing > nutmeg onto the island in 1843" although "Louis La Granade was > cultivating it in the 1700's." And you do say "late 1700's" which puts > it close to 1782 and after. But the question still remains to clinch > the case, when in the 1700's? And if before 1782, the answer will > still be that he was first among the French. > > Even giving credit to Gurney in 1843 might not be correct. Gurney may > have only been the first large producer/exporter of the Spice to the > British Market. I am sure there may have been many smaller > experimental producers among the British, who did all the hard work of > learning how to cultivate trees, tend them against pests, and > parasites be they insect or fungi, and process the crop and preparing > it for market etc., on a small limited scale. And the same thing may > also be said for smaller French European or Mulatto planters before La > Grenade. And you do say that he was "actually the first successful > planter to grow the crop." But he may have been just the first > succesful planter among the French. > > Even if the British learnt how to grow the crop from the French, they > would give the credit to Gurney for being the first successful > Britisher to produce large marketable crops for the British Market, > just as credit may have been given to La Grenade by the French for > being the first successful French planter for the French Market. > > But it still does not mean that it may not have been Sir Joseph Banks > advice that led the British to experiment for themselves with growing > the crop in the first place. Banks recommendation may have been > crucial for the British. Why? With his advice, venture capitalists > would come forward and be willing to invest in schemes to get the crop > going. It was valuable enough to risk investing in it. Don't forget > that for every successful plantation be it sugar or any other, there > were a myriad of creditors, giving loans and mortgages to pay the > costs of the plantation, to buy and prepare the land, provide food for > the slaves, wages for the workers after slavery, costs of outfitting > or chartering ships, insuring the ships and crops etc., long before > the crop is even planted or harvested or shipped. With the failure of > sugar cultivation and the advent of nutmeg cultivation as a > possibility, the capitalists (adventurers as they were called in the > 1600's) who may have lost money on s! > ugar in the 1840's after slavery was abolished, now had a new crop to > recoup their losses. > > At least we are getting closer to a correct statement of the History > of Nutmeg in Grenada. > >

Cindy: Having become interested in the 'nutmeg story' from the recent postings to the list. Why did LeGrenade have the nutmeg? What role did he play in the growing of nutmeg, and perhaps introducing nutmeg to Grenada? CJ cindy kilgore wrote: > > > Richard, > Please don't be offended, but I get the impression you haven't done > your homework on Grenada history where it comes to the nutmeg. La > Grenade and Gurney are given the credit here and can be found in the > Records Office in St. George's. La Grenade's family is still living on > his estate and continue with the family business involving nutmegs - > these are not "may also be true" statements. I feel your statements may > be "true" on a West Indies in general look at moving plants and spices, > but not to Grenada itself. Are you actually aware of the British-French > scene on this island in the late 1700's - not an in-general question > about the islands, but this particular one? Do you know why La Grenade > had the nutmegs in the first place? Please know I am not saying this in > a "biting" way, but am asking your knowledge of this particular > island's history with nutmegs. I don't think "we" are producing a > correct statement on the history of nutmegs in Grenada at all - I think > the nation of Grenada has that down pretty clear. > best regards, > Cindy > > > Hi Cindy, > > > > We should not take it literally that Sir Joseph Banks himself, > > physically went to Grenada and planted Nutmegs, or any other crop for > > that matter, or in any other of the British territories, while he was > > the botanical adviser to King George III. He may have advised it, to > > be grown by British colonists, because Kew Gardens had a long history > > of collecting plants from around the world and studying them. Since > > spices were so valuable, and the Dutch East Indies had a monopoly of > > it, the English had an incentive to study it and to see where it might > > be grown to the profit of the Crown and British Capitalists. Kew may > > also have looked at the chemistry of the Nutmeg in terms of extracts. > > > > So what you say here is quite true that : "I don't think Banks ever > > visited Grenada and I can say for sure he did > > not introduce nutmegs - for one, he was a collector of plants for KEW > > and then encouraged via prizes for others to plant specific species on > > the islands." > > > > And what you say here may also be true. That: > > > > "Louis La Grenade, a French mulatto planter in the late 1700's is > > actually the first successful planter on the > > island to grow the spice." If we can establish when La Granade > > actually began growing, the spice and if it was before 1782, then he > > has the credit, but for French growers, that is, as far as the British > > were concerned. > > > > When the British wrote the history of Nutmeg in the Island they would > > give credit to a Britisher, especially if his production ended up in > > the British Market. So what you say here can also be true that: > > > > "A British planter named Gurney .... is given credit for introducing > > nutmeg onto the island in 1843" although "Louis La Granade was > > cultivating it in the 1700's." And you do say "late 1700's" which puts > > it close to 1782 and after. But the question still remains to clinch > > the case, when in the 1700's? And if before 1782, the answer will > > still be that he was first among the French. > > > > Even giving credit to Gurney in 1843 might not be correct. Gurney may > > have only been the first large producer/exporter of the Spice to the > > British Market. I am sure there may have been many smaller > > experimental producers among the British, who did all the hard work of > > learning how to cultivate trees, tend them against pests, and > > parasites be they insect or fungi, and process the crop and preparing > > it for market etc., on a small limited scale. And the same thing may > > also be said for smaller French European or Mulatto planters before La > > Grenade. And you do say that he was "actually the first successful > > planter to grow the crop." But he may have been just the first > > succesful planter among the French. > > > > Even if the British learnt how to grow the crop from the French, they > > would give the credit to Gurney for being the first successful > > Britisher to produce large marketable crops for the British Market, > > just as credit may have been given to La Grenade by the French for > > being the first successful French planter for the French Market. > > > > But it still does not mean that it may not have been Sir Joseph Banks > > advice that led the British to experiment for themselves with growing > > the crop in the first place. Banks recommendation may have been > > crucial for the British. Why? With his advice, venture capitalists > > would come forward and be willing to invest in schemes to get the crop > > going. It was valuable enough to risk investing in it. Don't forget > > that for every successful plantation be it sugar or any other, there > > were a myriad of creditors, giving loans and mortgages to pay the > > costs of the plantation, to buy and prepare the land, provide food for > > the slaves, wages for the workers after slavery, costs of outfitting > > or chartering ships, insuring the ships and crops etc., long before > > the crop is even planted or harvested or shipped. With the failure of > > sugar cultivation and the advent of nutmeg cultivation as a > > possibility, the capitalists (adventurers as they were called in the > > 1600's) who may have lost money on s! > > ugar in the 1840's after slavery was abolished, now had a new crop to > > recoup their losses. > > > > At least we are getting closer to a correct statement of the History > > of Nutmeg in Grenada.