Hello Lenora, Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. Best wishes, Cindy On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > Portugal???? > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > Lenora... >

Lenora & Cindy, My understanding is that most of the Portuguese immigrants to the West Indies were Madeiran. The stories that I have read about the early Madeiran Immigrants to Trinidad and Guyana indicate that most of them were, in fact, virtually penniless when they arrived. Many of them were indentured servants. They would work out their indenture while conducting small scale commerce on the side, then many of them stayed to start businesses of their own. Rum shops were a common business venture for Portuguese as they had a low cost of entry. One should not confuse these establishments with a bar or tavern. They were typically dry goods stores that would also sell liquor by the glass. Many of these stores were simply the front rooms of houses, and catered to the working class. Keep in mind that the "Portagees" were considered to be low-class whites. As such, they were not welcomed into the social circles of other Europeans such as the French or English. They found their niche in society - in conjunction with the Chinese and later the Syrians - as merchants that bridged the gap between the "high class" whites, and the working class Africans, Indians etc. Their entrepreneurial prowess made them the envy of other whites, and there were even instances of riots in British Guiana where Portuguese shop owners were beaten and their stores burned or looted. Earlier migrants paved the way for later waves of migration. Many Madeiran Portuguese kept in touch with family back "home", formed Portguese social clubs etc. Immigration from Madeira continued up until the early 1900's. My own Great Grandfather is a classic example of the West Indian Portuguese success story. His parents came to St. Vincent in the late 1800's where he was born. He left St. Vincent to work for his older brother who had started a business in British Guiana. He went to sea as a deck hand to see more of the world, worked as a civilian employee of the US Army during the Spanish American War, and arrived in Trinidad at the turn of the century. He bought a rum shop with his savings, parleyed his earnings into a leather tannery, then began making shoes and investing in real estate, including a small cocoa plantation. He served on the City Council of Port of Spain for over 30 years, and served one term as Mayor. Even with those credentials, his son (my Grandfather) had to sneak around to date my French Creole grandmother. Her father did not approve of her dating a Portuguese.... Hope this helps. Dean de Freitas ----- Original Message ----- From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Defreitas in Grenada > Hello Lenora, > > Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this > Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people > emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was > consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were > forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I > wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - > they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived > on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for > that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, > etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe > Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. > > Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living > relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. > Best wishes, > Cindy > On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > Portugal???? > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > > > Lenora... > >

Dean,, our grandmother under discussion here spoke mostly French I am told..how could this be coming from Grenada?? OR did she learn it as that is what was spoken where she was born in St. Vincent ( family records, on death certificate.. other death record said St. John's).. so its confuses me as to which is right.. the info given by grandchildren in the USA.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CaribGenWeb Coordinator" <caribgw@bellsouth.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Defreitas in Grenada > Lenora & Cindy, > > My understanding is that most of the Portuguese immigrants to the West > Indies were Madeiran. The stories that I have read about the early Madeiran > Immigrants to Trinidad and Guyana indicate that most of them were, in fact, > virtually penniless when they arrived. Many of them were indentured > servants. They would work out their indenture while conducting small scale > commerce on the side, then many of them stayed to start businesses of their > own. Rum shops were a common business venture for Portuguese as they had a > low cost of entry. One should not confuse these establishments with a bar > or tavern. They were typically dry goods stores that would also sell liquor > by the glass. Many of these stores were simply the front rooms of houses, > and catered to the working class. > > Keep in mind that the "Portagees" were considered to be low-class whites. > As such, they were not welcomed into the social circles of other Europeans > such as the French or English. They found their niche in society - in > conjunction with the Chinese and later the Syrians - as merchants that > bridged the gap between the "high class" whites, and the working class > Africans, Indians etc. Their entrepreneurial prowess made them the envy of > other whites, and there were even instances of riots in British Guiana where > Portuguese shop owners were beaten and their stores burned or looted. > > Earlier migrants paved the way for later waves of migration. Many Madeiran > Portuguese kept in touch with family back "home", formed Portguese social > clubs etc. Immigration from Madeira continued up until the early 1900's. > > My own Great Grandfather is a classic example of the West Indian Portuguese > success story. His parents came to St. Vincent in the late 1800's where he > was born. He left St. Vincent to work for his older brother who had started > a business in British Guiana. He went to sea as a deck hand to see more of > the world, worked as a civilian employee of the US Army during the Spanish > American War, and arrived in Trinidad at the turn of the century. He bought > a rum shop with his savings, parleyed his earnings into a leather tannery, > then began making shoes and investing in real estate, including a small > cocoa plantation. He served on the City Council of Port of Spain for over > 30 years, and served one term as Mayor. Even with those credentials, his > son (my Grandfather) had to sneak around to date my French Creole > grandmother. Her father did not approve of her dating a Portuguese.... > > Hope this helps. > > Dean de Freitas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:16 PM > Subject: Defreitas in Grenada > > > > Hello Lenora, > > > > Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this > > Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people > > emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was > > consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were > > forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I > > wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - > > they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived > > on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for > > that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, > > etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe > > Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living > > relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. > > Best wishes, > > Cindy > > On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > > > > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > > > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > > > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > > > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > > > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > > > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > > > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > > > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > > > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > > > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > > Portugal???? > > > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > > > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > > > > > Lenora... > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/

Dean, I know that Sebastian was a well used DeFreitas name - however - I came across a DeFrietas "vaguely" related to my Johnsons in Barbados, though the family had moved on to Trini at some point. It is from World Gen Web & not confirmed by me : My G-grandmother was a Johnson - married to a Clarke in Barbados. My grandmother's brother's second wife (!) was also a Johnson. Plodding around to see what became of them, I came across her cousin in Trinidad (who knew?). His name was Victor Colin Anthony Johnson, and he married an Edith Florence Sheppard . She was apparently the daughter of Charles Sebastian Sheppard b.1884, son of Alfred Sheppard, possibly England, and Virginia DeFrietas, she the daughter of a Sebastian DeFrietas - wife unknown. The info on World Gen Web doesn't have where he was from and dates are just approx from working backwards, giving 25 yrs a generation ( just a guess) I'd say Sebastian was b around 1820 ???. Lisa

Cindy,, yes I have been told that the deFreitas came from Madeira,, and from a supposedly weathy family.. but I haven't been able to get back far enough from Grenada to prove this.. but the story is the same with all the deFreitas family members as being told they were originally from Madeira.As far as we can tell. they came to Grenada in mid to early 1800's. Unfortunately I am unable to come up with the Blue Book you mention...they were said to have been active in politics in Portugal also. maybe this had something to do with this all too.. I have tried searching Portugal as I was also told that they had a lot of family in Lisbon and close areas and that might be the very earliest family lines from there then to Madiera.. I have checked out books from the lilbrary but they haven't bee of much help.. mostly typical repeats of history. such as school books etc. I did go to the Portugeuse web and joined.. There are a lot of people out there trying to trace this family! Of course I understand while its uncommon in our days of searching.. tis a common name there.. but I am also told that they had a big family so if I can find Sebastian deFreitas there, it will lead to others in the family. Thanks to all who have helped me so much. Of it werent for your care and guidance I would have given up by now.. Lenora ----- Original Message ----- From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:16 AM Subject: Defreitas in Grenada > Hello Lenora, > > Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this > Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people > emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was > consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were > forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I > wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - > they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived > on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for > that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, > etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe > Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. > > Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living > relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. > Best wishes, > Cindy > On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > Portugal???? > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > > > Lenora... > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/