Jim Croper wrote (Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:42 PM): "While Tim has gone through the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada from > 1860 to 1931, I have gone through the Transcripts of St. George Cathedral, > Kingstown, St. Vincent from 1765-1870. I became intrigued with entries when > the "coolies" start appearing in the early 1860's. Their place of birth is > not given in most cases but there were some from Madras and Calcutta. > Madras and Calcutta seem likely to be the ports the indentured "coolies" > embarked from rather than their actual birthplaces. Most parents are > referred to in East Indian names with the children baptized with "English" > names. > ................. > >.....Baptisms starting in the late 1860's. ..........occurred in the Colonial Hospital. The hospitalized child and > their siblings are baptized but not the parents. Many at the Cathedral > involve adults receiving "Christian" names with no mention of "East Indian" > names. There are no entries in Marriages and the Burials cut off at 1855. > These entries are a minority of the total. It is assumed that as > "indentured labourers", the majority of them would have been associated with > the rural churches and other dominations. Only those working near the > capital or hospitalized are probably in the Anglican Cathedral records." > > **************** My Comment: Once again Jim Cropper has made a very significant contibution to this thread, previously in regard to the efforts of the Presbyterian Church in St. Vincent and now in regard to the Anglican Church. ( I have edited the message above). Both Churches seem to have been very quick to embrace the arriving East Indians to their respective churches. The question to be asked is: "Were these Hindus being baptised or were they already Christians from India? Were the Baptisms with or without the consent of the parents? Was this the embrace of Christians from another area, or the "saving of Heathen souls"? If the former, why aren't the parents names mentioned, or the East Indian names of the children? If the parents were Christians from India, why aren't their Baptismal names mentioned? It must be remembered that Calcutta (along with Madras and Bombay) were the principal areas of British dominance/influence via the the East India Company, beginning in 1608. By 1717 the BEI Co. was exempt from paying taxes and a few years after 1757, when they defeated the Nawab of Bengal at the Battle of Plassey, they were empowered to collect revenues for the Moghul Emperor. That authority basically meant that the Company ruled Bengal. Hence the indentured immigrants were coming from an area of long established Britishh religious influence. It must also be remembered that the foundation of Social Darwinism had already been enunciated in 1857 with the publication of Herbert Spencer's Essay. By 1899 we get Rudyard Kipling's poem, "The White Man's Burden which was not a general call to racial imperialism, (although it may have been an expression of it), but an exhortation to the US to assume the tasks of developing the Phillipines after victory in the Spanish-American War. We must also remember, that the Spanish and Portuguese had very early decided upon a policy of baptising the natives and Africans before imposing slavery on them. And yet by the 18th century we have slave traders like the famous John Newton, who was later an abolitionist, and author of "Amazing Grace"; of other traders being troubled in their conscience that they were dealing with human beings, but did it any way for pay and profit; and others who were to even deny that African slaves had souls or were human beings. In England, when the Walloons and Huguenots started to arrive fleeing persecution in the 16th Century, the parents were alowed their own congregations but the children were enrolled in Anglican Churches, although I am yet to establish how long this policy lasted, but a policy it initially was. In North America, right in this century, in Canada, a policy was decided upon, with the collaboration of the Christian Churches, to forcibly assimilate the children of Natives in Residential Schools. They were forbidden to use their Indian names and to speak their native languages. So I wonder now what really was going on in relation the East Indians and the Anglican Church in St. Vincent. Were children and parents subsequently welcomed as members of the Church? If so why not weddings in the church and burials after 1855? Another great post Jim! Thanks! Richard ---- Original Message ----- From: "James W Cropper" <jameswcropper@sympatico.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent Presbyterian Church.

I have just received documentation that an ancestor of ours, William OEBBIKA, was baptized at Saint Patrick's Catholic Church in Kingston on November 23, 1834. He was born October 30, 1834 to Ferdinand and Agatha OEBBIKKA. The copy says that Ferdinand was a native of Germany and Agatha was formerly FAIRE (I'm assuming that's her maiden name). It also says that William was born at Woodfield in the parish of St. Ann and the sponsors were William CLARKE and Honoria CLARKE. This information raises a number of questions that I'm hoping some of you who know so much more about the history of Jamaica can answer: 1. Where is/was Woodfield in St. Ann's parish? Was that the name of a plantation? 2. Who were the CLARKE's - were they plantation owners? Clarke certainly doesn't sound German, so I'm wondering if the sponsors were Jamaican citizen's for whom Ferdinand and Agatha worked. 3. When did ships with German workers arrive in Jamaica in 1834? Does anyone know where to find these ship records? Thank you all for your help! Ferdinand and Agatha left Jamaica in 1840 and were living in Maryland by the end of 1840. Barbara Vogele Obaker Allegheny County, PA Researching: PA: Vogele-Frye-Berkey-Seger-Claycomb-Buell-Penrod-Shaffer-Oats-Bittner-Bishop-D ibert-Berkebile-Zimmerman-Ripple-Clark-Obaker-Coughenour-Bennett-Lang-Beatty -Woodward-Klites-Bruck-Whipkey MD: Obaker-Goodwin-Knapp-Stegemuller VA: Hankins-Flippin-DeJarnette-Staples-Sudberry-Mumford