"Infer" "putting us on" "as ill-informed as she p r e t e n d s" - P L E A S E, you really are hostile. It is unwarranted. I am innocent, I do not pretend to know anything and if you know so much it would be good if you shared your knowledge in a way that was edifying, not in a way that PUTS DOWN? Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Campbell" <russ.campbell@cogeco.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 2:17 PM Subject: RE: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries > Haley died February 10, 1992, of a heart attack. The Jews of > Jamaica are "white" and of mixed race, predominantly Sephardic > Jew and West African. I HAVE done research and HAVE spoken to > many Jamaican Jews, including members of my family. > > I'm just guessing here, but I think Sara may be putting us on? > If I'm wrong, then please accept my apology, but I find it > difficult to believe that this person is as ill-informed as > she pretends. > > Cheers, > > Russ > -------------------------------------- > Persevere > > Russell G. Campbell > Burlington, ON, Canada > My Home page: www.it4biz.com/omnibus > My Magazine: http://www.it4biz.com/omnibus/PortOfCall > My Blog: http://www.it4biz.com/omnibus/rantrave > My Genealogy: http://www.it4biz.com/omnibus/genealogy > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sara Weiss [mailto:ksara@tesco.net] > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 5:55 AM > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > > Mm that't food for thought Heather. I don;t know whether Alex > Haley is still alive but I have written him a letter anyway. > He seems to very genuine in his research and in his account of > meeting his far-off relatives in Gambia. Only the film seems > to full of innacuracies? > > I didn't know about the Spanish and Portuguese refugees in > Jamaica. In all that I have read about the Inquisition, this > point has never come up. Always, the beleaguered Jews of Spain > went to Italy or France, but you could be right - I've never > researched and never spoken to any Jamaican Jews. REv de > Souza never mentioned any 'white' members of the large > community but maybe 'cus everyone knew about them. > > Sara > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Figueroa" <heatherfig@rogers.com> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 8:02 AM > Subject: Re: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries > > > > Sara..... > > > > Maybe I am missing the point here, but one of the reasons > for a 'large > > Jewish population' in Jamaica could be because they were > Spanish and > > Portuguese Jews who fled the Inquisition.......and while > some of them > > stayed catholic (conversos), others reverted back. > > > > And I, personally, have my reservations on Alex Haley's > 'discovery' of > > his African roots. Having seen Jamaican slave journals, I > find it > > rather hard to believe that he actually found his ancestors. > Not enough > > information in the journals....and their names were English > ones given > > by the owners. Not their African ones......but I could be > wrong. > > Perhaps in his case, there was enough 'oral' > history......but I would > > have to be convinced. > > > > I just thought I would throw this out for > discussion.......DQ, you > > listening? > > > > Cheers....Heather > > > > > Ann, as I have already discussed elsewhere, look at Alex > Haley's > > Epilogue to his "Roots". He researches the ship that > carried his > > forefather, Kunte Kinta from Gambia - it went straight to > America. As > > far as I have ever heard, slave ships went there from Africa > regularly. > > IN the book "Roots" the question of which slaves went to the > Caribbean > > comes up. Apparently, it was the unteachable slaves who were > often > > transported there. But also, I have this info that slaves > from Ethiopia > > went straight there and stayed there. > > > > > > Why else was there such a large Jewish population of, for > instance, > > Jamaica? Why are Jews so prevalent there - except in > Anguilla the > > island at which I am looking . There, Jews have become > Christian at > > least in namesake. > > > > > > But I am a beginner in all this. I only repeat what I > have learned so > > far, but it doesn't correspond to what you are saying. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Sara > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ann Whiting" <aqw8326@hotmail.com> > > > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:41 PM > > > Subject: Re: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys > mysteries > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sara, > > > > I have long been shouting in the wilderness, that slave > ships/slaves > > did not > > > > arrive in the US via non stop cruses, but were first > sold in in > > Caribbean. > > > > Seasoning is not something that is mentioned, or hardly > ever > > mentioned when > > > > Slavery is discussed. That was a period of breaking the > newly > > captured > > > > slaves. If they had the misfortune to survive the > crossing, they > > were first > > > > broken in the islands. > > > > The misconception of the Triangle trade is that slaves > were acquired > > in > > > > Africa, ships stopped in the Caribbean for provisions > and rum and > > then > > > > proceeded to the US. The truth is , newly captured > slaves were sold > > in the > > > > Caribbean, and 'Seasoned' slaves were bought, then taken > to the US > > for > > > > resale. > > > > Every African American has an African Caribbean > connection. > > > > Records show that that St. Thomas and Curacao were major > Seasoning > > Markets, > > > > as the Dutch, owned plantation on these islands, and > owned the Forts > > in > > > > Africa, and the ships they did not have to use a > middleman. > > > > So the possibility of a caribbean connection is not that > > far-fetched. > > > > A Jewish connection is also possible as Brandenburg > Company which > > managed > > > > these stations were started and financed by Portuguese > Jews from > > Bergen and > > > > Gluckstadt. > > > > In genealogy one must keep an open mind and expected the > unexpected. > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > > From: "Sara Weiss" <ksara@tesco.net> > > > > Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > > > > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys > mysteries > > > > Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:04:05 +0100 > > > > > > > > I'll tell you something else. Although I am mad keen to > find out my > > Jewish > > > > ancestry, possibly thro DNA - but unlikely according to > Richard, > > thanks > > > > Richard for saving me time and trouble - I have two > black ancestors > > too. > > > > > > > > Accounts for my very frizzy hair and love of music > mayhaps! > > Reading > > > > "Roots" by Alex Haley has now, more than this website, > made me start > > to > > > > wonder about them. One was a slave who bought his > freedom - West > > Indies or > > > > America I do not know. The other was from the Caribbean > but I do > > not know > > > > where. My husband and I are similar in looks and he and > some of my > > children > > > > have the same features. His whole family are from > Anguilla BWI and > > so one > > > > wonders if there is a Black connection . Are we > descended from the > > same > > > > line. > > > > > > > > All slaves in the Caribbean came from Ethiopa - > Christian ?Muslim > > and Jewish > > > > (Falasha). But, he is also Jewish, so we may have > descended from > > the same > > > > person, way way back, in Israel. But then how could the > appearance > > be so > > > > similar after 3,000 years!!! The black line is more > probable. But > > the > > > > likelihood of my ancestors coming also from Anguilla is > almost > > prepostrous. > > > > Who knows? You'd need to be rich to find out!! > > > > > > > > One just keeps these things under one;s hat but nothing > much can be > > done to > > > > find out more - unless one is the subject of some far > out TV > > documentary!!! > > > > > > > > However, I am just pleased to be part of all this, in a > sort of > > 'inner' way. > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > Sara Weiss > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <richwyn@idirect.com> > > > > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:44 PM > > > > Subject: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys > mysteries > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Allicock sent you this MSNBC News Link: > > > > > > > > > > Message: > > > > > Sara Weisss re-appearane on the DNA Issue was quite > timely. Here > > is an > > > > MSNBC account of some-one trying to use DNA to fill the > gaps in his > > reearch. > > > > There is also a link to the African Genetics for > Genealogy > > company, > > > > Afrigenesis for those who are interested. Richard > > > > > > > > > > ** DNA tackles a familys mysteries ** > > > > > DNA testing is adding a scientific twist to the > search for family > > roots, > > > > one of the worlds most popular pursuits. Follow MSNBCs > Alan Boyle on > > the > > > > genetic trail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_email.asp?/news/682153 > .asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > ________ > > > > > Check out the hour's top stories on MSNBC.com > > <http://www.msnbc.com> > > > > > > > > > > MSNBC does not confirm the E-mail address of the > sender of this > > MSNBC > > > > News Link. For your information, the sender's IP > Address is: > > 207.46.245.18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > > > > For information on individual islands, research aids, > island > > bulletin > > > > boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb > project at > > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > > > Before posting a query, check to see if the question has > already > > been asked > > > > on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are > archived by date > > or > > > > thread at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can > > search > > > > the archives at > > > > > > > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CA > RIBBEAN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Sharing the information." > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > ___ > > > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > > > For information on individual islands, research aids, > island > > bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb > project at > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > > For information on individual islands, research aids, > island bulletin > > boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project > at > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > Before posting a query, check to see if the question has > already been asked on the List. All messages posted to > CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or thread at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can > search the archives at > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CA > RIBBEAN. > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ >

I had deliberately kept out of this discussion, as I did not care for the tone it was taking, but I must come to Russ Campbell's defence, as my reaction to some of the statements being put forward as fact was total disbelief. I think that if one is truly seeking knowledge, it is unwise to insist on conjecture as if it were proven fact, and even more unwise to attack those whose well-founded knowledge contradicts the fiction. Moreover, Russ did say in his message that he apologized in advance if he was mistaken, and that should have been more than enough apology; but he can hardly be blamed for wondering whether this was all a put on: remember we have had such an experience on this List earlier, so forgive us if we are sometimes sceptical about queries that seem excessively naïve. But enough already Re the topic of the slave trade, I would recommend yet another very useful book: "The Atlantic Slave Trade: A Census" by Philip D, CURTIN, 1969, University of Wisconsin Press, ISBN 0-299-05400; LC 69 17325, He deals with the difficult problem of how the numbers of slaves imported from Africa have been calculated. It is again clear from this work, that the vast majority of slaves came from West Africa: mainly from Senegambia, the Bight of Biafra, the Bight of Benin, the Gold Coast (i.e. Ghana) and so on, and a tiny percentage from Mozambique & Madagascar. [People also tend to forget that a great proportion of the slaves went to Brazil, not to North America, because of the Portuguese connection]. Anyone with a particular interest in the Transatlantic Slave Trade should not forget the numerous excellent books (& CDs) by David ELTIS, which should be relatively easy to find. Ernest

Like Ernest, I also wished to keep out of this discussion, but feel I must make a comment regarding the Jews of Jamaica. There is evidence of the existence of Sephardic Jews, who had fled the Inquisition in both Spain and Portugal, in Jamaica during the time of Spanish occupation. These Jews remained in Jamaica after the Conquest in 1655. I would recommend that anyone interested in the Sephardic Diaspora, particularly as it refers to Jamaica, read the interesting little book by Mordechai Arbell, "The Portuguese Jews of Jamaica". For further information about the Sephardic Jews in general I suggest Jane Gerber's "The Jews of Spain". Piet Huisman has written an excellent little book, "Sephardim: the spirit that has withstood the times", mainly about the Sephardic Jews who settled in Amsterdam and then in the Dutch West Indies, specifically Curacao, Suriname, etc. A much larger work on that topic is Isaac Emmanuel's "History of the Jews of the Netherlands Antilles". I mention these books because there is evidence that there was movement of Sephardic Jews between the Netherlands Antilles and Jamaica, as there was between those Sephardic Jews who found refuge for a time in Recife, in the Pernambuco province of Brazil, and then were forced to leave once the territory was captured from the Dutch by the Portuguese. Many of these Jews found their way to Barbados for some time, thanks to permission granted them by Oliver Cromwell, the Protector. I know of at least one family that left Barbados for Jamaica. Many of the Sephardic Jews who came to Jamaica did so from England, where they had been given permission by Cromwell to settle, some 400 years after they had been expelled by Edward I. Around the late 1780s Jews from England with German background also settled in Jamaica, and founded the English and German Synagogue in Kingston, at a time when there were several Sephardic synagogues in the island. There is absolutely no credibility to the claim that Ethiopian Jews ever settled in Jamaica. To my knowledge the only connection to Ethiopia is the 20th century Ras Tafari movement which came out of Marcus Garvey's Back to Africa movement, in which the followers of the Rastafarian cult took the Emperor Haile Selassie, the "Lion of Judah", of Ethiopia, whose original name was Ras Tafari, as their spiritual leader. Other than that there was no ethnic connection to Ethiopia. I don't want to get into any particular argument regarding physical appearances, etc., but it should be noted that there was miscegenation between Jews and blacks in Jamaica. There is evidence of this in various will where Jews have recognized their natural children. And of course, there has always been intermarriage among races in Jamaica, which no doubt accounts for our motto: "Out of Many, One People". Finally, to completely understand the Diaspora as a result of the Inquisition I strongly recommend Jeffrey S. Malka's recent book, "Sephardic Genealogy: discovering your Sephardic ancestors and their world". It will help people to understand just how far afield the Jews of Spain and Portugal fled to and settled, and how to go about researching the records. This book is available from Avotaynu, Inc., Bergenfield, NJ. Mordechai Arbell has also compiled an excellent bibliography, "Spanish and Portuguese Jews in the Caribbean and the Guainas". There is a lot of information out there. Remember, folks! We really cannot do good genealogical research without first studying the history and geography of the region where we are researching! Dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest M. Wiltshire" <murcot@synapse.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: June 16, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: RE: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries I had deliberately kept out of this discussion, as I did not care for the tone it was taking, but I must come to Russ Campbell's defence, as my reaction to some of the statements being put forward as fact was total disbelief. I think that if one is truly seeking knowledge, it is unwise to insist on conjecture as if it were proven fact, and even more unwise to attack those whose well-founded knowledge contradicts the fiction. Moreover, Russ did say in his message that he apologized in advance if he was mistaken, and that should have been more than enough apology; but he can hardly be blamed for wondering whether this was all a put on: remember we have had such an experience on this List earlier, so forgive us if we are sometimes sceptical about queries that seem excessively naïve. But enough already Re the topic of the slave trade, I would recommend yet another very useful book: "The Atlantic Slave Trade: A Census" by Philip D, CURTIN, 1969, University of Wisconsin Press, ISBN 0-299-05400; LC 69 17325, He deals with the difficult problem of how the numbers of slaves imported from Africa have been calculated. It is again clear from this work, that the vast majority of slaves came from West Africa: mainly from Senegambia, the Bight of Biafra, the Bight of Benin, the Gold Coast (i.e. Ghana) and so on, and a tiny percentage from Mozambique & Madagascar. [People also tend to forget that a great proportion of the slaves went to Brazil, not to North America, because of the Portuguese connection]. Anyone with a particular interest in the Transatlantic Slave Trade should not forget the numerous excellent books (& CDs) by David ELTIS, which should be relatively easy to find. Ernest ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== The CARIBBEAN-L FAQ can be found at http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/mailinglistfaq.htm.