Hi Listers, In a discussion off-line with Richard there are other threads to the topic of the East Indian immigration which may be of interest. One is the interaction between the immigrants and the Islanders. My family on St. Vincent had interesting relationships with the new arrivals. One member Robert Porter CROPPER (1829- ?) learned to speak their language when the "coolies" started arriving in SV in 1861 . In the 1850's he was a Graduate of Marischal College in the University of Aberdeen and in SV "instituted evening classes for the instruction of young men in history, science, and philosophy". The Presbyterian Church on St. Vincent appears to have "imploded" in the 1850's perhaps due to the Minister's involvement in women or money or both ... but I digress. RPC seems to have acquired the assets and tried to keep the school going by turning it into a Mechanics' Institute. Some additional info on his son :- From Page 86 of the book :- "Called to Witness - Profiles of Canadian Presbyterians" - editor W. Stanford REID. ". The man who offered himself was the Rev. James Cropper, a man whose qualifications made him a natural for the post. Although not much is known of his early life we do know that he came from a devout Christian home. He was the son of R.P. Cropper, the Protector of East Indians of St. Lucia and a lay preacher for the Presbyterian Church. James Cropper learned to speak Hindu fluently and was able, like his father, to converse directly with the new arrivals from India. He and his father had begun the Presbyterian work among the East Indians of St. Lucia; he had trained teachers and catechists there; and he had served some time as a missionary in Trinidad. Cropper, who was slightly "coloured", so impressed the Trinidad Mission Council that they sent him to Pine Hill in Halifax for theological training to prepare him to lead the Indian people of St. Lucia. ." [Pine Hill is now Dalhousie University in Dartmouth, N.S.] More on Rev'd James Bassnett CROPPER (1865-1945) [known to Dorothy KEW as "The Old Goat"] in British Guiana :- Arthur Charles Dayfoot. "The Shaping of the West Indian Church, 1492-1962." Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 1999. Page 197: "The [Presbyterian] mission only became permanently established in 1896, with the arrival of the Revd James B. Cropper who for forty years became such a prominent figure that even after his time it was often referred to as 'the Cropper Church.' About 1880 the government had begun to provide free land and encourage workers who had completed their indenture to settle in unoccupied areas (notably in those suitable for rice growing) rather than to return to India. Cropper, who supported this policy, was appointed as 'Superintendent of East Indian Settlement' by the government, but after some years went back to full time church work." JBC had a sister Selina CROPPER (1875 - ?) who also was in British Guiana. Richard found a reference - "Miscellaneous letters and reports, relating to the Canadian Presbyterian Mission in British Guiana and the Presbyterian Church of Guyana". The material is in the Edinburgh University Library, Scotland. One item is a pamphlet or book by Selina CROPPER - "Practical training for British Guiana Girls". Sorry for so much CROPPERANA! Perhaps other listers have information on the interaction between the immigrants and the Islanders. Jim C.

Jim this is interesting: why did the Presbyterian Church disappear from St. Vincent? When my father was posted there in 1949 as a Methodist minister, the Governor (Administrator strictly speaking) was a Presbyterian, but came to the Methodist Church as there was no Presbyterian one, and he tended to go to the Anglican Church only for official occasions. Was there a financial/sexual scandal 100 years earlier? Ernest M. Wiltshire -----Original Message----- From: James W Cropper [mailto:jameswcropper@sympatico.ca] Subject: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent Presbyterian Church. ". The Presbyterian Church on St. Vincent appears to have "imploded" in the 1850's perhaps due to the Minister's involvement in women or money or both ... but I digress.

I found James Cropper's posting, which I have edited below, very interesting and very re-freshing compared to the British Guiana experience and maybe that of Trinidad and Jamaica. I will leave others on the list knowledgeable about the situation in the last two countries to say what the situation was there. But in British Guiana, where the London Missionary Society had gotten a foot-hold before slavery was abolished, and since the LMS was the local arm of the Abolitionists movement, the LMS did not take kindly to the arrival of the East Indians. In fact, like the abolitionists, they had opposed the introduction Indentureship on the grounds of a New Slavery. This was all well and good, but their sentiments towards the East Indians, was inculcated by the ex-slaves and their descendants, and I think did a great deal of harm in regard to the relationships between the two races. The East Indians were seen as Heathens, and the ex-slaves who were being Christianised were preached upon against associating with the Heathens and about their Heathen practices. To be fair, the Missionaries all over the world did the same, even when the Heathen were the unchristianised fellow natives of whatever territories the missionaries were in. But in a situation where the ex-slaves already felt that the East Indians and other Indentured were taking their jobs and hence the food out of their mouths, the preachings of the Missionaries did lasting harm. One can only imagine what may have been said about the Catholic and hence Popish and Idolatrous Portuguese/Madeirans. And yet boys will be boys, and it was much to chagrin of the missionaries, when the young children and young adults started tagging along behid the Hindus when they celebrated their Festivals. Very soon certain festivals were banned, for being disruptive to the work schedule on the Estates/Plantations, but one also suspects also for the exhibition of Heathenism. And then there was the matter of dress or undress. It must be remembered that by the 1840's it was already the Victorian era, with its abhorrence of public nudity. Whereas before the end of slavery slaves were routinely in some state of undress, at the end of slavery an Ordinance was passed specifying the way that males and females should be dressed. Males in shirts and trousers, females in frocks and petticoats and a head-scarf. Then along came the East Indians who could be seen in states of undress, the men clad in only loin-cloths and a "turban" and the females working bare-breasted in the fields, as the slaves had done before them. More fuel to the faggots of the Missionaries' anti-Heathen preachings. It is refreshing to see how early one of the Croppers, a lay precher with the Presbyterian Church, and Protector of Indians, jumped in to Christianise the East Indians, even going a far as learning their language. It is also not surprisising that it was the Canadian Presbyterians that led the way. It was also this group of Prebyterians that did much to Christianise and educate a significant number of East Indians to produce an anglicised East Indian middle class in British Guiana. One can also remark upon the title "Protector of Indians" mentioned by both James Cropper and Guy Grannum. In British Guiana, there had long been Protector of Indians, the Amerindians, a post begun by the Dutch and kept by the British. These Protectors were backed up by no less than the person of the Inspector-Geeral of Police. Maybe there were no Native Amerindians in St. Vincent by the time that the East Indians started to arrive, but was the title passed on from a time when there were? In British Guiana, the protector of the East Indians was the Immigration-Agent-General. One of them (James Crosby by name) did his job so well, and was so trusted by the East Indians, that many times in disputes with the Estates/Plantations, they would walk off and attempt to go and see "Crosby". Even when he was no longer there his office was known as "Crosby", and the East Indians would still want to see "Crosby" regardless of the name of successive Immigration-Agent-General. A great post James. Thanks. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "James W Cropper" My family on St. Vincent had interesting relationships with the new arrivals. One member Robert Porter CROPPER (1829- ?) learned to speak their language when the "coolies" started arriving in SV in 1861 ..... From Page 86 of the book :- "Called to Witness - Profiles of Canadian Presbyterians" - editor W. Stanford REID. .... He was the son of R.P. Cropper, the Protector of East Indians of St. Lucia and a lay preacher for the Presbyterian Church. James Cropper learned to speak Hindu fluently and was able, like his father, to converse directly with the new arrivals from India. He and his father had begun the Presbyterian work among the East Indians of St. Lucia; he had trained teachers and catechists there; and he had served some time as a missionary in Trinidad. Cropper, who was slightly "coloured", so impressed the Trinidad Mission Council that they sent him to Pine Hill in Halifax for theological training to prepare him to lead the Indian people of St. Lucia. ." [Pine Hill is now Dalhousie University in Dartmouth, N.S.] Arthur Charles Dayfoot. "The Shaping of the West Indian Church, 1492-1962." Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 1999. Page 197: "The [Presbyterian] mission only became permanently established in 1896, with the arrival of the Revd James B. Cropper who for forty years became such a prominent figure that even after his time it was often referred to as 'the Cropper Church.' About 1880 the government had begun to provide free land and encourage workers who had completed their indenture to settle in unoccupied areas (notably in those suitable for rice growing) rather than to return to India. Cropper, who supported this policy, was appointed as 'Superintendent of East Indian Settlement' by the government, but after some years went back to full time church work." <jameswcropper@sympatico.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 6:36 AM