Hi Listers, (specially in the Carolinas) Is anyone able to confirm there is a connection between these two people? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Lucas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Lucas Her biography reads as if they could be brother and sister. I'd be very grateful if anyone can clarify the Lucas families of Antigua and St Kitts and Colchester Essex England around 1650-1750. David Daniell

Thanks for that reference. Robert Clarke On 28/06/2010, at 1:24 PM, Tim & Una Anderson wrote: > http://home.golden.net/~marg/bansite/btbiog.html#f1 >> From this website the following: > They dealt in many cargoes, one of which was human slaves. By 1722, Grandfather Thomas Tarleton was delivering slaves to Antigua. Thomas' son John, Banastre's father, became the "Great T," Mayor of Liverpool, and the purchaser of land in the West Indies. (Mount Pleasant Estate in Carriacou,1 Grenada was in the family until 1910.There was also a warehouse in St. Georges, Grenada and another estate in Dominica.) There is record of a slave ship named Banastre, which was lost, and so another Banastre was commissioned. > > Note the superscript '1' after Carriacou. The endnote to which it refers, reads: > 1 According to Adam Tarleton, this is mistakenly transcribed as Curaçao in Liverpool library in the index of Tarleton Papers. -- Marg B. > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David, There is a good bit on Google Books about Sir John Lucas and Colchester in the mid-seventeenth century, though I am willing to bet you have all that already. Of some interest to the list in general might be the 1819 tome, The History, Civil and Commercial, of the British West Indies. There are some pages in French regarding a Jacques Lucas. Of interest also might be the letterbook of Eliza Pinckney, in limited preview on Google Books and a for purchase. It is copyright The South Carolina Historical Society, and I would check there for more on Eliza's ancestry. Sometimes the local history societies do it best. The introduction to the letterbook was written by Elise Pinckney, who received her masters from Carolina, and if you are interested, I will look up her current contact info for you in the alumni listings. Cheers, Laura On Jun 29, 2010, at 2:10 AM, David Daniell wrote: Hi Listers, (specially in the Carolinas) Is anyone able to confirm there is a connection between these two people? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Lucas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Lucas Her biography reads as if they could be brother and sister. I'd be very grateful if anyone can clarify the Lucas families of Antigua and St Kitts and Colchester Essex England around 1650-1750. David Daniell *************************** The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

"History of Antigua" by VL Oliver does not show Eliza and Thomas as siblings . If you do not have access to "H of A" I will be happy to copy and send you copies of the relevant pages . Regards , Phillip ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Daniell" <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> To: "Caribbean Rootsweb" <CARIBBEAN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: [Carib] LUCAS family of Antigua and PINCKNEY family of SouthCarolina > Hi Listers, > > (specially in the Carolinas) > > Is anyone able to confirm there is a connection between these two people? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Lucas > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Lucas > > Her biography reads as if they could be brother and sister. > > I'd be very grateful if anyone can clarify the Lucas families of Antigua > and St Kitts and Colchester Essex England around 1650-1750. > > David Daniell > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and > Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

http://home.golden.net/~marg/bansite/btbiog.html#f1 >From this website the following: They dealt in many cargoes, one of which was human slaves. By 1722, Grandfather Thomas Tarleton was delivering slaves to Antigua. Thomas' son John, Banastre's father, became the "Great T," Mayor of Liverpool, and the purchaser of land in the West Indies. (Mount Pleasant Estate in Carriacou,1 Grenada was in the family until 1910.There was also a warehouse in St. Georges, Grenada and another estate in Dominica.) There is record of a slave ship named Banastre, which was lost, and so another Banastre was commissioned. Note the superscript '1' after Carriacou. The endnote to which it refers, reads: 1 According to Adam Tarleton, this is mistakenly transcribed as Curaçao in Liverpool library in the index of Tarleton Papers. -- Marg B.

HI Grace, Thanks for that information- it sounds very interesting. I have been wondering if there are Cuban records on line and about the connection of English settlers in the Caribbean and Cuba. I have seen where Seymour men have been travelling between Guyanilla and New York in the 1820-'s -1840's and felt that it might have just been a leg of the journey from Barbados or elsewhere south. Have you any ideas?? Joan. Joan T.Seymour, Consultant Grace wrote: > Hi Everyone, > I have been researching the Duany(s) who came to Jamaica from > Santiago, Cuba during the 1860’s through to the early 1900’s. My > reason for posting this is two fold: > > one, to ask my fellow searchers if they have any information on > Duany(s) from Cuba who lived in Jamaica or had holdings or interests > on the island. My great grandfather was Jose Duany. I am still trying > to pin down the date of his arrival in Jamaica and the date on his > return to Cuba. > > Two, to share some very interesting books and articles, that I > recently discovered, on historic connections between Jamaican & Cuba, > as well, many Jamaican family names are mentioned within the books and > articles. > > (1) ‘Political Idealism and Commodity Production: Cuban Tobacco in > Jamaica, 1870-1930’ by Professor Jean Stubbs, Cuban studies > course. > Gives accounts of many Cuban families who fled Cuba for Jamaica and > started the tobacco industry on the Island. > An example - Page 65 gives a 1907 article “Tobacco in Jamaica” where > the Hon. W. Fawcett Director Of Public Gardens. > ‘. . . . Fawcett mentions several Cubans in connection with tobacco > in Jamaica. Among them were Count Jose Duaney, owner of the “Hall > Head” estate; O.M. Feurtado (sic), owner of “Bellevue”, Pedro Cisneros > (from Manzanilla), a grower at Cherry Garden; General Vijegas (sic), > an extensive grower at Colbeck’s plantation; J. C. Espin, who > published a treatise on tobacco in the 1889 Jamaican Bulletin; and > Antonio Leon, a planter who advised Hope Gardens on cutting and > curing. They all contributed to the dramatic transformation of the > late nineteenth-century Jamaican tobacco economy. . . > http://books.google.ca/books?id=QDYm8ESk60kC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=1870's+cubans+in+Jamaica&source=bl&ots=-posFktjeK&sig=hUZyUKu9oqYY-11kI6ZmpygCPjA&hl=en&ei=QOMYTPiTO4K8lQeh2bn9Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA# > > > (2) In the book ‘To Jamaica and Back’ Published in 1876’ by James > Sibbald David Scott (sir, 3rd. bart.). Very interesting journal with > details on many families, individuals, estates, local politics etc. > On pages 288-289 mentions Jose Duany. > http://books.google.ca/books?id=InQBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA288&lpg=PA288&dq=Count+Duany,+Jamaica&source=bl&ots=IernJwllmO&sig=c0JvFoUi-c_MyWX4puuvFtDk_jM&hl=en&ei=LmEVTN_nL4S0lQeTlp3zCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Count%20Duany&f=false > > (3) CUBA AND THE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM - James Hyde Clark > Gives ‘ … the insurrection of 1868 and the compromise of 1878, and a > full and vivid account of the present struggle of the people for > liberty and independence ([1896]) ‘ > A good account is given on the part Jamaica played in the Cuban war of > independence. The capture of the steamer " Virginias " in 1873 off the > coast of Jamaica reads like a movie script. > > http://www.archive.org/details/cubafightforfree00claruoft > > http://www.archive.org/stream/cubafightforfree00claruoft#page/n1/mode/2up > > > (4) The Irish Presence in the History and Place Names of Cuba > http://www.irlandeses.org/0711fernandezmoya1.htm > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Everyone, I have been researching the Duany(s) who came to Jamaica from Santiago, Cuba during the 1860’s through to the early 1900’s. My reason for posting this is two fold: one, to ask my fellow searchers if they have any information on Duany(s) from Cuba who lived in Jamaica or had holdings or interests on the island. My great grandfather was Jose Duany. I am still trying to pin down the date of his arrival in Jamaica and the date on his return to Cuba. Two, to share some very interesting books and articles, that I recently discovered, on historic connections between Jamaican & Cuba, as well, many Jamaican family names are mentioned within the books and articles. (1) ‘Political Idealism and Commodity Production: Cuban Tobacco in Jamaica, 1870-1930’ by Professor Jean Stubbs, Cuban studies course. Gives accounts of many Cuban families who fled Cuba for Jamaica and started the tobacco industry on the Island. An example - Page 65 gives a 1907 article “Tobacco in Jamaica” where the Hon. W. Fawcett Director Of Public Gardens. ‘. . . . Fawcett mentions several Cubans in connection with tobacco in Jamaica. Among them were Count Jose Duaney, owner of the “Hall Head” estate; O.M. Feurtado (sic), owner of “Bellevue”, Pedro Cisneros (from Manzanilla), a grower at Cherry Garden; General Vijegas (sic), an extensive grower at Colbeck’s plantation; J. C. Espin, who published a treatise on tobacco in the 1889 Jamaican Bulletin; and Antonio Leon, a planter who advised Hope Gardens on cutting and curing. They all contributed to the dramatic transformation of the late nineteenth-century Jamaican tobacco economy. . . http://books.google.ca/books?id=QDYm8ESk60kC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=1870's+cubans+in+Jamaica&source=bl&ots=-posFktjeK&sig=hUZyUKu9oqYY-11kI6ZmpygCPjA&hl=en&ei=QOMYTPiTO4K8lQeh2bn9Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA# (2) In the book ‘To Jamaica and Back’ Published in 1876’ by James Sibbald David Scott (sir, 3rd. bart.). Very interesting journal with details on many families, individuals, estates, local politics etc. On pages 288-289 mentions Jose Duany. http://books.google.ca/books?id=InQBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA288&lpg=PA288&dq=Count+Duany,+Jamaica&source=bl&ots=IernJwllmO&sig=c0JvFoUi-c_MyWX4puuvFtDk_jM&hl=en&ei=LmEVTN_nL4S0lQeTlp3zCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Count%20Duany&f=false (3) CUBA AND THE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM - James Hyde Clark Gives ‘ … the insurrection of 1868 and the compromise of 1878, and a full and vivid account of the present struggle of the people for liberty and independence ([1896]) ‘ A good account is given on the part Jamaica played in the Cuban war of independence. The capture of the steamer " Virginias " in 1873 off the coast of Jamaica reads like a movie script. http://www.archive.org/details/cubafightforfree00claruoft http://www.archive.org/stream/cubafightforfree00claruoft#page/n1/mode/2up (4) The Irish Presence in the History and Place Names of Cuba http://www.irlandeses.org/0711fernandezmoya1.htm

Thanks for the offers, Peter. I may take you up on them sometime. With regard to your question, no, there is no overall index to Jamaican births. The indexes are arranged by parish and by year, but you will find several years on one film. Unfortunately, there are some problems with the indexes for St. Elizabeth. FHL microfilm # 1506936 includes birth indexes for St. Elizabeth for 1881-1884, 1886-1889, and 1890-1893, but it also includes other parish indexes. FHL microfilm # 1506937 supposedly covers St. Elizabeth from 1893 to 1920, but there are missing years -- 1914, 1915, 1917, 1918 & 1920. We don't know if those index years are actually missing, or just weren't there when the LDS were microfilming. So, you are right. You will need to look at both films. Dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Hyde" <phyde67@bigpond.com> To: <caribbean@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [Carib] HALE in Jamaica > Thanks again Dorothy: > > I will try St Elizabeth first as we know that a sister of Arthur Albert > HALE, Zona Hale, was born in St Elizabeth in 1898. The LDS site says for > St > Elizabeth that each year has its own index, so am I right that there is no > master index? And,as I am not 100% certain of the year (according to the > age he gave himself on various Merchant Marine Crew Agreements he was born > between 1892 and 1895), I will need to get the films for St Elizabeth for > each of those years to check their indexes? And that index will then tell > me which district to look in? Cumbersome, but do-able, I guess! > > Thanks for your patience with me as I work my head around the process - if > you ever need an explanation of Merchant Navy Crew Agreements, the > migrations of Chief Big Bear's Band from Canada to and from Montana, or > transcribing 16th century script, let me know! > > Regards > Peter Hyde > A British-born Canadian living in Australia > > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and > Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks again Dorothy: I will try St Elizabeth first as we know that a sister of Arthur Albert HALE, Zona Hale, was born in St Elizabeth in 1898. The LDS site says for St Elizabeth that each year has its own index, so am I right that there is no master index? And,as I am not 100% certain of the year (according to the age he gave himself on various Merchant Marine Crew Agreements he was born between 1892 and 1895), I will need to get the films for St Elizabeth for each of those years to check their indexes? And that index will then tell me which district to look in? Cumbersome, but do-able, I guess! Thanks for your patience with me as I work my head around the process - if you ever need an explanation of Merchant Navy Crew Agreements, the migrations of Chief Big Bear's Band from Canada to and from Montana, or transcribing 16th century script, let me know! Regards Peter Hyde A British-born Canadian living in Australia

Thanks Laura, that's very helpful. Banastre was not quite as bad as Hollywood has portrayed, but I do admit he did have some strong faults. I'm also not sure that he was the smartest kid on the block. Anyway.... Again, many thanks. Robert Clarke On 18/06/2010, at 10:22 AM, LAlderson@nc.rr.com wrote: > Robert, > This may not be of any use, but we patriots and Carolinians had a > nemesis in an infamous fellow named Banastre Tarleton. He was born in > Liverpool 21 Aug 1754, according to one book, which recounts: "He > commenced the study of the law, but on the breaking out of the war > with America, exchanged the gown for the sword. He was with Lord > Cornwallis in his whole campaigns in the South . . . "the ardor of his > temper and daring received a severe check at the Cowpens .. . 1781 > from General Morgan." (Cowpens was a Revolutionary battle in which the > patriots, even with an inferior force prevailed.) This entry goes on > to recount his stature (below middle size) and his eyes (small, black, > and piercing). It says he married "the daughter of the Duke of > Ancaster and Kestevan." > > The book attributes its sketch to a book entitled "Georgia Era," > published in London in 1833, page 470. Perhaps that book will have > more on the Tarletons. > > I see elsewhere that this is a son of John Tarleton, the mayor of > Liverpool. Apparently, he squandered his inheritance gambling and set > out for America. Later he was in the House of Commons. It seems his > brothers were Liverpudlian shippers and he supported their endeavors. > > I pick up this snippets: "At the time of his death John Tarleton was > the partner of John Backhouse and possessed an estate "Fairfield" in > Derby, an estate and store in the island of Curacao, a store in > Grenada, and properties in Liverpool. ..." > There is an interesting book online, "The slave trade: the story of > the Atlantic slave trade" by Hugh Thomas that mentions Tarleton. > > I find one reference that "John Tarleton came to eminence during the > 'silver age of sugar.' He also owned Belfield Estates on Dominica. > British Records Relating to America in Microform, ed. W. E. > Minchinton, American Material from the Tarleton Papers in the > Liverpool Record Office, introduction by P.D. Rihardson (Unviersity of > Hully, 1974), 10-15. John Tarleton had six other children [besides > Banastre]: Thomas, John Jr., William, Clayton, Bridget, and Jane." > > My very cursory read shows: There is also an 1830 court case that > references John Tarleton's bankruptcy in 1815, and which indicates his > holdings may have included (bankruptcy lawyers tend to be rather > sweeping) the islands of St. Vincent, St. Lucia, Trinidad and > Demerara. I cannot tell wehther this is John Jr. or Sr., but I suspect > the former. The bankruptcy documents may reveal specific holdings in > the islands. > > And, finally, there are many Tarletons list in the Index to the Wills > and Inventories Now Preserved in the Court of Probate, at Chester, > From A.D. 1701 to 1720, which was printed in 1889 and is a Google Book. > > I hope this is somewhat helpful. The papers in Liverpool might be well > worth a try. > > Best, > Laura > > On Jun 17, 2010, at 7:38 PM, Robert Clarke wrote: > >> Hello listers >> >> I am interested in finding out details of the Tarleton family >> estates in the 18th century. The Tarleton family of Liverpool, >> England operated considerable trading enterprises, including a major >> role in the slave trade. >> >> I understand they had estates in various parts of the general region >> including Dominca and Carriacou (I don't know this one) as well as >> other commercial bases in Grenada and possibly Jamaica. >> >> Can anyone point me in the direction of where I might find details >> of these estates and the records that accompany them. I am >> particularly interested in the involvement of the Tench family who >> were related to the Tarletons by marriage. >> >> Many thanks in advance. >> >> Robert Clarke > > > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Dorothy Many thanks for that - I had figured that I would probably have to do the LDS route and you have given very helpful signposts as to which films I will need to order. I found the catalogue on the LDS London site ( http://www.londonfhc.org/content/catalogue?p=Caribbean,Jamaica ) easier to follow that the one on the Salt Lake Site. Not being sure of the birth location makes it difficult when there isn't a central registry. Are the films indexed, or does one have to go through them page-by-page, church-by-church, year-by-year to find a particular name? Regards Peter Hyde South Australia (wet, windy, 15 degrees)

Hi all I am looking for Arthur Albert HALE, born (he says on his Australian marriage cert) 15 Jan 1894 to Edwin Harvey HALE (son of Arthur Diddam HALE) and Agnes ALBERGA. I have found Jamaica Gleaner articles relating to the births, marriages or deaths of his siblings and half siblings, and a reference to him as a witness at his father's murder trial in 1900 (although 6 seems to be very young to be giving evidence). I have (repeatedly) e-mailed the Registrar General's office requesting a paid search for his birth record but have received no reply. I have gone through the JamaicaFamilySearch site and have also received a lot of help from Terry at CaribbeanAncestry.com, but I really need confirmation of Arthur Albert's birth as the next reference to him is in Wales, getting married and then joining the merchant navy and claiming to be born in Wales. Confirmation of his Jamaica birth would dispell the notion of two different Arthur Albert's. If anyone living in Jamaica would be willing to try personally to go and get his birth cert I would be happy to hear off-list from you; and if anyone can suggest other lines of enquiry I would like to hear them. Regards Peter Hyde South Australia

Hi Peter: I suggest you start with the birth indexes, either to St. Elizabeth or to Westmoreland. These will be vital registration records. Jamaica began civil registration of births and deaths in 1878, and of marriages in 1880. The microfilms of the actual registrations are arranged by parish, and within each parish by district. Each parish has a letter code, for example -- K, for St. Elizabeth, and L, for Westmoreland. Each district of the parish has another letter code, so for example, if your ancestor was born in Black River, St. Elizabeth, the letter code would be KA followed by the registration number. The birth indexes are arranged by year, so once you find the letter code for the year you are researching you would then go back to the Family History Library Catalogue to find the film with that registration letter code and number. Hope that helps! Dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Hyde" <phyde67@bigpond.com> To: <caribbean@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Carib] HALE in Jamaica > Hi Dorothy > > Many thanks for that - I had figured that I would probably have to do the > LDS route and you have given very helpful signposts as to which films I > will > need to order. I found the catalogue on the LDS London site ( > http://www.londonfhc.org/content/catalogue?p=Caribbean,Jamaica ) easier to > follow that the one on the Salt Lake Site. Not being sure of the birth > location makes it difficult when there isn't a central registry. Are the > films indexed, or does one have to go through them page-by-page, > church-by-church, year-by-year to find a particular name? > > Regards > Peter Hyde > South Australia > (wet, windy, 15 degrees) > > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and > Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for those suggestions Ruth. I have tried those sources and there are Tarleton papers in Liverpool but I was hoping that there would be something that would provide greater detail. But, like all these little challenges, we keep on keeping on! Thanks again Robert Clarke On 17/06/2010, at 9:17 PM, Ruth Murdoch wrote: > Hi Robert, > I really am not sure if the following will be of use to you but it is worth having a look at. > Seems to be that some family's that had Liverpool - West Indies ties donated letters and documents to the Liverpool Archives/Library. This seems to have happened during the mid 1950's, an example is the Parker family papers, they cover a lot of 'ground'. Much of which is partly available online. The down side of it is the Liverpool A/L is due for major renovations starting very soon, if not already started. Most if not all the collection is being rehoused for the duration. > Also, have you tried the NAA or done an eBooks search for information? > > Hope this turns out to of use to you. > > Regards, Ruth > (looking for info re Gilbert Robertson of Kiltearn Plantation) > --- On Tue, 15/6/10, Robert Clarke <musicart@anneclarke.com.au> wrote: > > > From: Robert Clarke <musicart@anneclarke.com.au> > Subject: [Carib] Tarleton estates > To: CARIBBEAN@rootsweb.com > Received: Tuesday, 15 June, 2010, 8:21 PM > > > Hello listers > > I am interested in finding out details of the Tarleton family estates in the 18th century. The Tarleton family of Liverpool, England operated considerable trading enterprises, including a major role in the slave trade. > > I understand they had estates in various parts of the general region including Dominca and Carriacou (I don't know this one) as well as other commercial bases in Grenada and possibly Jamaica. > > Can anyone point me in the direction of where I might find details of these estates and the records that accompany them. I am particularly interested in the involvement of the Tench family who were related to the Tarletons by marriage. > > Many thanks in advance. > > Robert Clarke > > > > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter: If you are close to a Family History Centre of the Latter-day Saints (LDS) where you live you could order in microfilms of Jamaican records, many of which have been microfilmed by the LDS (aka Mormons). Based on the Gleaner article on the trial of Edwin Hale it appears that the family lived in the parish of St. Elizabeth, as the murder in question took place on Biscany estate, which is in that parish. I would therefore order the index of births for St. Elizabeth parish to see if Arthur Hale shows up there. (It seems unlikely to me that he would have given evidence at age six, so his birthdate may be incorrect.) A search on Jamaican Family Search brought up Arthur Diddam Hale, a merchant, who was born in Sav-la-Mar, which is in the parish of Westmoreland, so that might also be worthwhile checking. Each parish in Jamaica, and in this time period there are 14, has its own birth index, so it helps to be able to narrow down the possible places to search. I hope this helps! Dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Hyde" <phyde67@bigpond.com> To: <CARIBBEAN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 3:52 AM Subject: [Carib] HALE in Jamaica > Hi all > I am looking for Arthur Albert HALE, born (he says on his Australian > marriage cert) 15 Jan 1894 to Edwin Harvey HALE (son of Arthur Diddam > HALE) and Agnes ALBERGA. > > I have found Jamaica Gleaner articles relating to the births, marriages or > deaths of his siblings and half siblings, and a reference to him as a > witness at his father's murder trial in 1900 (although 6 seems to be very > young to be giving evidence). I have (repeatedly) e-mailed the Registrar > General's office requesting a paid search for his birth record but have > received no reply. I have gone through the JamaicaFamilySearch site and > have also received a lot of help from Terry at CaribbeanAncestry.com, but > I really need confirmation of Arthur Albert's birth as the next reference > to him is in Wales, getting married and then joining the merchant navy and > claiming to be born in Wales. Confirmation of his Jamaica birth would > dispell the notion of two different Arthur Albert's. > > If anyone living in Jamaica would be willing to try personally to go and > get his birth cert I would be happy to hear off-list from you; and if > anyone can suggest other lines of enquiry I would like to hear them. > > Regards > Peter Hyde > South Australia > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and > Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Laura I couldn't help but jump in on this one. Tarleton per Carolinian history is one of the demons of the British expeditionary forces during the war....but the truth is abit more interesting than the political myth. There is a bio on him on Wikipedia see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banastre_Tarleton his father was a Liverpool Merchant of considerable fortune, engaged in the West Indies and Guinea Trade. Tarleton did blow his inheritance like many of the time and then took the usual option of purchasing a commission and redeeming himself on his own merits. He rose through the ranks rapidly and developed a reputation as a dynamic and some say brilliant Light Cavalry commander. One reason for his notoriety was a disastrous affair regarding the killing of a number of American troops AFTER they had sued for surrender. The particulars are on the Wikipedia site. I always remember him as this dapper Bstard who constantly chased the Swamp Fox around the Charleston Low Country (probably Goose Creek!) Providing many hours of TV entertainment at about the same time the Davy Crockett show was looking abit primitive ... It is perhaps important for the search on the Tarleton topic to recall that many merchants acquired their estates and properties in the islands as a direct consequence of their running accounts in trade (essentially lines of credit) with various planters in the islands....planters failed, estates became encumbered with annuities and family bequests settled in cash by redistribution of the properties so encumbered.... . And quite often, slave purchases accrued without payment until a planter's Liverpool, London, or Bristol merchant/factor ended up partner in his estate.....Both situations were very common to the sugar islands. Hope all listers are well Cod.

Just a tidbit I found whilst looking at that Google book, "An Index of the Wills and Inventories Now Preserved in the Court of Probate at Chester. . ." In case someone is looking for her, there is a will! --Laura

Robert, This may not be of any use, but we patriots and Carolinians had a nemesis in an infamous fellow named Banastre Tarleton. He was born in Liverpool 21 Aug 1754, according to one book, which recounts: "He commenced the study of the law, but on the breaking out of the war with America, exchanged the gown for the sword. He was with Lord Cornwallis in his whole campaigns in the South . . . "the ardor of his temper and daring received a severe check at the Cowpens .. . 1781 from General Morgan." (Cowpens was a Revolutionary battle in which the patriots, even with an inferior force prevailed.) This entry goes on to recount his stature (below middle size) and his eyes (small, black, and piercing). It says he married "the daughter of the Duke of Ancaster and Kestevan." The book attributes its sketch to a book entitled "Georgia Era," published in London in 1833, page 470. Perhaps that book will have more on the Tarletons. I see elsewhere that this is a son of John Tarleton, the mayor of Liverpool. Apparently, he squandered his inheritance gambling and set out for America. Later he was in the House of Commons. It seems his brothers were Liverpudlian shippers and he supported their endeavors. I pick up this snippets: "At the time of his death John Tarleton was the partner of John Backhouse and possessed an estate "Fairfield" in Derby, an estate and store in the island of Curacao, a store in Grenada, and properties in Liverpool. ..." There is an interesting book online, "The slave trade: the story of the Atlantic slave trade" by Hugh Thomas that mentions Tarleton. I find one reference that "John Tarleton came to eminence during the 'silver age of sugar.' He also owned Belfield Estates on Dominica. British Records Relating to America in Microform, ed. W. E. Minchinton, American Material from the Tarleton Papers in the Liverpool Record Office, introduction by P.D. Rihardson (Unviersity of Hully, 1974), 10-15. John Tarleton had six other children [besides Banastre]: Thomas, John Jr., William, Clayton, Bridget, and Jane." My very cursory read shows: There is also an 1830 court case that references John Tarleton's bankruptcy in 1815, and which indicates his holdings may have included (bankruptcy lawyers tend to be rather sweeping) the islands of St. Vincent, St. Lucia, Trinidad and Demerara. I cannot tell wehther this is John Jr. or Sr., but I suspect the former. The bankruptcy documents may reveal specific holdings in the islands. And, finally, there are many Tarletons list in the Index to the Wills and Inventories Now Preserved in the Court of Probate, at Chester, From A.D. 1701 to 1720, which was printed in 1889 and is a Google Book. I hope this is somewhat helpful. The papers in Liverpool might be well worth a try. Best, Laura On Jun 17, 2010, at 7:38 PM, Robert Clarke wrote: > Hello listers > > I am interested in finding out details of the Tarleton family > estates in the 18th century. The Tarleton family of Liverpool, > England operated considerable trading enterprises, including a major > role in the slave trade. > > I understand they had estates in various parts of the general region > including Dominca and Carriacou (I don't know this one) as well as > other commercial bases in Grenada and possibly Jamaica. > > Can anyone point me in the direction of where I might find details > of these estates and the records that accompany them. I am > particularly interested in the involvement of the Tench family who > were related to the Tarletons by marriage. > > Many thanks in advance. > > Robert Clarke

The Sturge family were a well-known Quaker one, Joseph Sturge (1793-1859) see wikipedia was involved later in anti-slavery agitation. He was from Glos too Edward Riou Crawford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Robinson" <drobins6@rochester.rr.com> To: <caribbean@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:26 PM Subject: [Carib] Thomas Sturge WILLIAMS >From his middle name I am guessing that the name Sturge may be somewhere in his familial line. I have (a) some info on a Sturge family from Gloucestershire in England, 1722 to 1906 and (b) a member of that family who married into the HEAVEN family. Members of the Heaven family owned property in Jamaica for around a hundred years or more. Whether or not there a connection with your William I have no way of knowing but if you pursue the possible Sturge connection please get back to me. Happy hunting! Diana Robinson (nee Gardner) Now in Rochester, NY, USA -----Original Message----- From: caribbean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:caribbean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of caribbean-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:00 AM To: caribbean@rootsweb.com Subject: CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 68 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Jamaicans Who Served In WWI British Reg (sedmonds@TheWorld.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 21:48:13 -0400 (EDT) From: sedmonds@TheWorld.com Subject: Re: [Carib] Jamaicans Who Served In WWI British Reg To: caribbean@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <3219.75.69.218.2.1276480093.squirrel@www.TheWorld.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hello Nivard, Thank you for your reply. Any informaiton is a great help especially about Thomas Sturge Williams. The only information I had about him was from the 1891 census and a snippet from a letter his sister Margaret Williams wrote in 1936 from the Gold Coast. Thomas (1874-1918) Edward Hewett (1878-1954) Philip Ewart (1882-1952) Williams all served in during WWI. They were the sons of Rev. Philip and Sarah Eliza Hewett Williams. Sarah Eliza Hewett (1849-1892) was a grandaughter of Rev. Thomas Burchell. According to the Margaret Williams' letter, Thomas died of malaria,after the war in Mesopotamia. My information about the Sherwood Foresters comes from the wedding article (naturally not dated) or their sister Lillah Williams (1888-1957)to Cadet Eric Edward Harden, Royal Garrison Artillery. Captain E.H. Williams Sherwood Foresters is mentioned as a guests. The only other information about him is from the 1891 and 1901 census where he is listed as teacher in London. He died in 1954 in Fordingridge, Southhampton. I'll contact the person you mentioned and ask if he might have some information. Thank you again for the leads and information. Susan Edmonds-Boston-USA End of CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 68 **************************************** *************************** The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From his middle name I am guessing that the name Sturge may be somewhere in his familial line. I have (a) some info on a Sturge family from Gloucestershire in England, 1722 to 1906 and (b) a member of that family who married into the HEAVEN family. Members of the Heaven family owned property in Jamaica for around a hundred years or more. Whether or not there a connection with your William I have no way of knowing but if you pursue the possible Sturge connection please get back to me. Happy hunting!   Diana Robinson (nee Gardner) Now in Rochester, NY, USA -----Original Message----- From: caribbean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:caribbean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of caribbean-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:00 AM To: caribbean@rootsweb.com Subject: CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 68 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Jamaicans Who Served In WWI British Reg (sedmonds@TheWorld.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 21:48:13 -0400 (EDT) From: sedmonds@TheWorld.com Subject: Re: [Carib] Jamaicans Who Served In WWI British Reg To: caribbean@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <3219.75.69.218.2.1276480093.squirrel@www.TheWorld.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hello Nivard, Thank you for your reply. Any informaiton is a great help especially about Thomas Sturge Williams. The only information I had about him was from the 1891 census and a snippet from a letter his sister Margaret Williams wrote in 1936 from the Gold Coast. Thomas (1874-1918) Edward Hewett (1878-1954) Philip Ewart (1882-1952) Williams all served in during WWI. They were the sons of Rev. Philip and Sarah Eliza Hewett Williams. Sarah Eliza Hewett (1849-1892) was a grandaughter of Rev. Thomas Burchell. According to the Margaret Williams' letter, Thomas died of malaria,after the war in Mesopotamia. My information about the Sherwood Foresters comes from the wedding article (naturally not dated) or their sister Lillah Williams (1888-1957)to Cadet Eric Edward Harden, Royal Garrison Artillery. Captain E.H. Williams Sherwood Foresters is mentioned as a guests. The only other information about him is from the 1891 and 1901 census where he is listed as teacher in London. He died in 1954 in Fordingridge, Southhampton. I'll contact the person you mentioned and ask if he might have some information. Thank you again for the leads and information. Susan Edmonds-Boston-USA End of CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 68 ****************************************