I ordered my copy of Home Away From Home from Ian Randle Publishers LTD in Jamaica for US$24.95 + US$25 FedEx (or US$10 regular post). Item# IRP9768123389 paperback Their email address is sales@ianrandlepublishers.com "Garcia-Sibley" <wintergully@direct.ca> wrote in message news:BABC967A.DCD%wintergully@direct.ca... > Dear Richard F., Orithia, and Richard B., > > Thanks so much for your informative answers. I found the book referred to > and will see if I can get my library to order it or bring it in on an > interlibrary loan. For others who are interested it is: > > HOME AWAY FROM HOME > 150 YEARS OF INDIAN PRESENCE IN JAMAICA > 1845-1995 > Laxmi Mansingh and Ajai Mansingh > > Re Garcias from Goa: as a result of research so far, it appears that there > were probably 2 different lines of Garcias in Jamaica in the 19th Century: > one (also spelled Garsia) descended from Jacob Garcia de la Paz and Esther > Brandon (arriving probably from Curacao to Kingston in the late 1700's); > the second line(s) descended from brothers (folk-lore says 3), who came from > India in the mid- 1800's, mostly to St. Ann parish. It seems likely, as you > say Richard, that this second group was from Goa. > > Orinthia, thanks for you offer to work with you. I will write to you > directly. > > Thanks to all who contribute to this site. I am a silent (usually), but > very appreciative reader. > > Joan Garcia > > > Richard Facey <richface@idirect.com> > > Re: Jamaica-Indian Indentured labourer > > > Dear Joan: > > Professor Mansingh at the UWI has written a book on the Indian families in > > Jamaica. I've forgotten the title, and will try to locate it for you - I > > guess it's still currently available in most bookstores in Jamaica. > > Richard > -------------------------- > > Orinthia Marks <omarks@rogers.com> > > Re: Jamaica-Indian Indentured labourer > > > Hello Joan, > > I have been researching recently and I too am seeking info on this topic as > > my great grandmother was from Calcutta. I have tried as well to find any > > info on her side of the family. They lived in lower St. Andrew on Mannings > > Hill Road within a settlement they called "Big Yard". My great > > grandmother's name was Mary Brown or Mary Ann and her daughter (my gran) was > > Drucilla she had one sister Orinthia. > > To answer your question re "planter" I found that throughtout Marriage > > Registers I reviewed at the World History Library here - a number of my > > relatives were referred to as Planters as well and from what I know I'm > > guessing that it relates to the quantity of land they had. For example: my > > aunt was a Planter and her brother - my grand- left many acres when he died. > > It was very cultivated land with all sorts of agricultural produce. The > > other brothers in this group all had much land as well and it seems they > > were all referred to as Planters. > > > > It would maybe be beneficial to us both to work together if you are > > interested. I found a few links re ships from India and have copy of this. > > It indicates that the first ship from India "The Blundell" arrived in 1845 > > and then they continued through to the 1900s. > > > > Please let me know if you would like to keep in touch. > > Thanks. > > Orinthia Marks > > --------------------- > > From: RichardBond@webtv.net (Richard Bond) > > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:23:39 -0400 (EDT) > > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: Jamaica-Indian Indentured labourer > > > > If your ancestor was from Goa it is entirely possible that he came in > > from India as Garcia > > --------------------------- > > From: RichardBond@webtv.net (Richard Bond) > > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:24:53 -0400 (EDT) > > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: Jamaica-Indian Indentured labourer > > > > Planter approximates Agriculturalist > > > > -- >

Does anyone have a copy of Jamaica Journal Volume 10, No. 2, 1976, which I understand contains the article: "Mansingh, Lakshmi and Ajai Indian Heritage in Jamaica"? I have been trying to access a site from which to order back issues of the Journal, without success. I do have many of the earlier issues, but not this particular one. Joan Garcia --

Dear Richard F., Orithia, and Richard B., Thanks so much for your informative answers. I found the book referred to and will see if I can get my library to order it or bring it in on an interlibrary loan. For others who are interested it is: HOME AWAY FROM HOME 150 YEARS OF INDIAN PRESENCE IN JAMAICA 1845-1995 Laxmi Mansingh and Ajai Mansingh Re Garcias from Goa: as a result of research so far, it appears that there were probably 2 different lines of Garcias in Jamaica in the 19th Century: one (also spelled Garsia) descended from Jacob Garcia de la Paz and Esther Brandon (arriving probably from Curacao to Kingston in the late 1700's); the second line(s) descended from brothers (folk-lore says 3), who came from India in the mid- 1800's, mostly to St. Ann parish. It seems likely, as you say Richard, that this second group was from Goa. Orinthia, thanks for you offer to work with you. I will write to you directly. Thanks to all who contribute to this site. I am a silent (usually), but very appreciative reader. Joan Garcia > Richard Facey <richface@idirect.com> > Re: Jamaica-Indian Indentured labourer > Dear Joan: > Professor Mansingh at the UWI has written a book on the Indian families in > Jamaica. I've forgotten the title, and will try to locate it for you - I > guess it's still currently available in most bookstores in Jamaica. > Richard -------------------------- > Orinthia Marks <omarks@rogers.com> > Re: Jamaica-Indian Indentured labourer > Hello Joan, > I have been researching recently and I too am seeking info on this topic as > my great grandmother was from Calcutta. I have tried as well to find any > info on her side of the family. They lived in lower St. Andrew on Mannings > Hill Road within a settlement they called "Big Yard". My great > grandmother's name was Mary Brown or Mary Ann and her daughter (my gran) was > Drucilla she had one sister Orinthia. > To answer your question re "planter" I found that throughtout Marriage > Registers I reviewed at the World History Library here - a number of my > relatives were referred to as Planters as well and from what I know I'm > guessing that it relates to the quantity of land they had. For example: my > aunt was a Planter and her brother - my grand- left many acres when he died. > It was very cultivated land with all sorts of agricultural produce. The > other brothers in this group all had much land as well and it seems they > were all referred to as Planters. > > It would maybe be beneficial to us both to work together if you are > interested. I found a few links re ships from India and have copy of this. > It indicates that the first ship from India "The Blundell" arrived in 1845 > and then they continued through to the 1900s. > > Please let me know if you would like to keep in touch. > Thanks. > Orinthia Marks > --------------------- > From: RichardBond@webtv.net (Richard Bond) > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:23:39 -0400 (EDT) > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Jamaica-Indian Indentured labourer > > If your ancestor was from Goa it is entirely possible that he came in > from India as Garcia > --------------------------- > From: RichardBond@webtv.net (Richard Bond) > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:24:53 -0400 (EDT) > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Jamaica-Indian Indentured labourer > > Planter approximates Agriculturalist > --

You might be interested to know that The National Archives (Public Record Office) has now published its policy on use of digital cameras on the PRO website at http://www.pro.gov.uk/recordcopying/self_service_photography.htm Guy Grannum

I don't know about Barbados, but I can tell you that my ggrandfather on St. Vincent, who was from a "coloured" family although light enough to "pass," (as it would be put in the US) is described in a number of legal documents as a "Planter," and so are two of his associates, brothers, who I have pretty good reason to believe were also of mixed race and may have been his first cousins. I only have a photo of one of them (the associates, I mean), but he looks decidedly un-European. Among the three of them, they controlled a good portion of the agricultural land in SV betweem 1880 and 1900, more or less.

I have come to the conclusion that at least in the case of Barbados records, the description "Planter" is a code-word for "white". In all my research and perusal of tens of thousands of Barbados records, I have not come across a single instance of a black or coloured person being described as a planter. However, "planter" does not necessarily mean "rich": many of the people so described would have been small land-holders, or even people who did not actually own the land, but rented or leased acreage from the wealthy land-holders, on which they cultivated cane, which at harvest time would then be sold back to the large growers or directly to the sugar factories. There were a few coloured families who were extremely wealthy plantation owners (e.g. the Belgraves). I would be very interested to hear if they are ever described as "Planters", or if anyone has found evidence that would prove me wrong. Ernest M. Wiltshire Friends of the Barbados Archives 38 Inglewood Place, Ottawa Ontario, K1Y 4C7, Canada

Many thanks to Guy, Richard, Ann, Claudia, Jim, and Ernest for your reply messages regarding Montserrat records. Unfortunately these records are not in Belize but I have written to the Antigua Archives and hope to find success there. Are there other Listers who would like to join me in Montserrat record searches? Please let me know. I will, of course, let the List know when I find out more. Alannah

Planter approximates Agriculturalist

If your ancestor was from Goa it is entirely possible that he came in from India as Garcia

Barbados- Hoolio, Lisa, and Morlyne Sancho Grenada - Pepe Sancho Trinidad - Claude H. Denbow Grace, E. Gerald, Glenn, Janet,Julia, Zinette, Brent, Cyril, Kareene, Keith, Peter, Phillip, Ralph, Sade, Simon, Sharon, Vincente and J. Sancho Guyana Aileen, Aubrey, Brenda,Cecil, Claudette, Ella, Joy A., Lorna, Marcilla, Mark Anthony, Mavis, Nicola, Olga, Stanley, Stella, Sylvilene, Tito and Treon Otis Sancho. Jamaica Charles Egerton Denbow of UWI All of the above are needed to contact, Desmond Roberts email:Jpdtrjude@aol.com Sidney Marious: SMariou@UTNet.UToledo.Edu Kenneth Roberts:kajrob@aol.com log on to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/descendantsofsancho/ The Sancho family of Guyana are in the process of identifying, and locating their relatives. Therefore they would be grateful to communicate with the above and or their descendants and all of their relatives.

I am looking for Sancho family members of Trinidad. Sancho of Trinidad and Tobago. Brent Sancho ,Cyril Sancho,E Gerald Sancho, Glenn Sancho, Grace Sancho, J.Sancho, Janet Sancho, Julia Sancho, Kareene Sancho, Keith Sancho, Zinette Sancho, Peter Sancho,Phillip Sancho,Ralph Sancho, Sade Sancho, Sharon Sancho, Simon Sancho and Vincente. Sancho of Barbados. Hoolio Sancho, Lisa Sancho,and Morlyne Sancho. Sancho of of Grenada. Pepe Sancho I wonder whether they are related to the Sancho family of Guyana, formerly British Guiana, and or to Ignatius Sancho 1729-1780,of Westminster, England. I am a Sancho of Guyana, I am of the opinion I am descended from Ignatius Sancho; the literary African man of letters and the arts, in eighteenth century England. The Sanchos of Guyana are in the process of identifying, locating, researching and documenting, their history – the history of the Sancho family. I am especially interested in every Sancho who has a (Guyana) British Guiana connection. Those who are related or and descended from John Sancho c1880? I am interested in Claude H. Denbow and family of Trinidad as well. Any person knowledge of Sancho of Trinidad is asked to information and or send email addresses to forum Your information will be well appreciated by the Sanchos of Guyana. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalsanchos group email:globalsanchos@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/descendantsofsancho group email:descendantsofsancho@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goldengrovenabaclis group email:goldengrovenabaclis@yahoogroups.com Desmond Roberts Email: Jpdtrjude@aol.com Sidney Marious email: smarious@utnet.utoledo.edu Chioma Phillips email: cphillips@usco.com fax:(919)992-4618 Venica Sancho email: venica@sympatico.ca Kenneth Robertson 2901 Upton Avenue Toledo, OH 43606 Tel:419-472-8379 email: kajrob@aol.com

Dear Harvey, Do you know if your Grandfather had any brothers or sisters. My Grandfather was born 1898 in Jamaica and his father was James Brown a Blacksmith ( according to his marriage certificate) and he had sister who we think might have been a teacher. Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey brown" <harveybrb@sympatico.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:54 AM Subject: Searching for links to grandfather and grandmother > I recently started researching my family's history. I have documented most of my recent history and am now seeking to go back in time. My Grandfather's name was Alfred Augustus Brown (1893-1951) he was believed to have been born at Runaway Bay, St. Ann, Jamaica. His father was James Brown. His mother was Margaret Lawrence, who later married an Adolphus Bailey. Margaret was from Ocho Rios area, St. Ann, Jamaica. Alfred married one Violet Dormer (1901-?). She was born at Swift River, Portland, Jamaica. Her father was Johnny Dormer. Any information on these individuals would be greatly appreciated. > > Cheers > Harvey > (613) 526-2499 > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > > >

Does anyone know of a source of names of "East" Indian indentured workers to Jamaica? Some became valued citizens, and seeing "Coolie" in the Parish Registers is very distressing, besides being useless in identifying the person. By the way, what exactly was a "planter" in 1838? I think I understand what "apprentice" meant at that time, and, of course "free". Is "planter" the same as "agriculturist"? Thanks, Joan Garcia --

I recently started researching my family's history. I have documented most of my recent history and am now seeking to go back in time. My Grandfather's name was Alfred Augustus Brown (1893-1951) he was believed to have been born at Runaway Bay, St. Ann, Jamaica. His father was James Brown. His mother was Margaret Lawrence, who later married an Adolphus Bailey. Margaret was from Ocho Rios area, St. Ann, Jamaica. Alfred married one Violet Dormer (1901-?). She was born at Swift River, Portland, Jamaica. Her father was Johnny Dormer. Any information on these individuals would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Harvey (613) 526-2499

Sorry Ernest, I thought that you had passed on the information re, the island needing to secure their documents when they had to evacuate the island, and would remember who made the request. I did contact the acquisitions department of the FHL, and they put me incontact with thier caribbean photogropher who was in Puerto Rico who was about to return to the US, and he did contact Montserrat, but as I said a computer crash lost me all of that information. Ann >From: "Ernest M. Wiltshire" <murcot@synapse.net> >Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com >To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: In search of a Montserrat resident >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:36:42 -0400 > >Hello Ann: did you mean me? Sorry I know nothing about the situation in >Montserrat, but if anything I would have thought that the records might >be in Antigua, their closest neighbour, where many Montserratians took >refuge. Other than that, I believe that the former capital of Plymouth >is now a ghost town, buried under many feet of volcanic ash, not unlike >ancient Pompeii. Perhaps one day it will be excavated... > >Ernest M. Wiltshire > >-----Original Message----- >If I am not mistaken, during the erruption of the volcano, the files >were moved to another Island. I was in contact with someone who was in >charge of the records, and had put them in touch with the FHL to copy >the documents. Due to a rebuild of my hard drive, I no longer have the >e-mails, but maybe someone on the list remembers who I corresponded >with. Earnest? >Ann > > >==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES >What is a Mailing List? >http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

The CD in question is indeed of the "Original Lists..." of John Camden Hotten, originally published in 1874. I was lucky enough to find a first edition on the internet: they do sometimes pop up. For some unknown reason though, Hotten did not include the parish register entries for all the Barbados parishes. He included only the returns for the parishes of: St. Michael, St. George, St. Andrew, Christ Church, St. James, & St. John. This was remedied by the publication in 1983 of "Omitted Chapters From Hottens..." edited by James C. Brandow, published by the Genealogical Publishing Co, of Baltimore. (It is inexpensive and readily available). Brandow's book contains the Census returns & parish registers from the 1679 census for the Parishes of St. Philip, St. Joseph, St. Lucy, St. Thomas St. John (burials) & St. Peter (as well as a number of militia rolls). The Sanders Barbados Records (Baptisms: 1637-1800) does of course include all the baptisms from that 1679 Census period, but Hotten has the advantage of including a number of burials as well, which are not in Sanders. Ernest M. Wiltshire -----Original Message----- ""George F. Sanborn Jr."" <seorasog@attbi.com> wrote in message This sounds like a combination of Mrs. Sanders' volumes on Barbados records plus Hotten's "Lists," but what are the "lists of landowners"? Can anyone confirm the above? >> Graham Milne wrote: I thought members might be interested to hear about a new CD which is available which has hundreds of pages of info. on Barbados genealogy, including parish registers, tickets to America and other places, lists off landowners and so on. See: http://www.abc-publications.co.uk/shop/products.php?p=51b431

Hello Ann: did you mean me? Sorry I know nothing about the situation in Montserrat, but if anything I would have thought that the records might be in Antigua, their closest neighbour, where many Montserratians took refuge. Other than that, I believe that the former capital of Plymouth is now a ghost town, buried under many feet of volcanic ash, not unlike ancient Pompeii. Perhaps one day it will be excavated... Ernest M. Wiltshire -----Original Message----- If I am not mistaken, during the erruption of the volcano, the files were moved to another Island. I was in contact with someone who was in charge of the records, and had put them in touch with the FHL to copy the documents. Due to a rebuild of my hard drive, I no longer have the e-mails, but maybe someone on the list remembers who I corresponded with. Earnest? Ann

I hadn't been following this thread very closely so I don't know if anyone has pointed out that there is (was?) quite a sizable East Indian population in Guadeloupe (descended from indentured labourers), and I imagine that the excellent Archives there might have information about that. It is some years since I visited and have not been in touch with the people I knew there. It might also be worthwhile to contact the Archives in Martinique as well: I believe that Liliane Chauleau has retired, so I'm not sure who is in charge there now, but Philippe Rossignol might know the latest contact details for the Departmental Archives in both islands. Ernest Ernest M. Wiltshire Friends of the Barbados Archives 38 Inglewood Place, Ottawa, Ontario Canada K1Y 4C7____

IMHO if the Montserrat records were taken off island at all they would have been taken to Antigua. An enquiry at the Antigua Archives might prove fruitful. -- At 01:31 PM 4/7/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Hello: > >Could it have been someone at the Montserrat National Trust? > >Montserrat National Trust >PO Box 393 Olveston Montserrat, >West Indies >Phone 664-491-3086 >FAX 664-491-304 >Email: mnatrust@candw.ag > >It's worth a try (via email) to see if they can answer questions about the >Island's records. > >CSemper > >Ann Whiting wrote: > >>If I am not mistaken, during the erruption of the volcano, the files were >>moved to another Island. I was in contact with someone who was in charge >>of the records, and had put them in touch with the FHL to copy the documents. >>Due to a rebuild of my hard drive, I no longer have the e-mails, but >>maybe someone on the list remembers who I corresponded with. Earnest? >>Ann > > > >==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES >What is a Mailing List? >http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > Regards, James C. "Jim" Lynch 510 Conley Street, Thornhill, ON L4J6T8, CANADA 905-760-2413 (direct, message machine) 905-738-3599 (not direct, voice mail) http://www.candoo.com/

Daphne Would be interested to know whether any of the following names appear, thanks in advance: Faure, Francis, Billy, LaTouche Jenni > > From: "Daphne Phillips Daifas" <daphne.daifas@mail.mcgill.ca> > Date: Sun 06/Apr/2003 21:27 GMT > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: List of estates--source > > The list comes from The Grenada Handbook, Directory and Almanac for the Year > 1897. The call number is F2056.2 G74. It may be available through an > interlibrary loan. If not I am happy to look ups. > Daphne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenora Anderson" <ldanderson@sbcglobal.net> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 9:30 AM > Subject: Re: List of estates--Grenada: De Freitas > > > > Thanks! Is there any chance of getting this book?? You have raised > questions > > about other estates.. since I was not familiar with Woodlansd, I wonder > how > > many other Estates they were invilved with??? Lenora > > From: "Daphne Phillips Daifas" <daphne.daifas@mail.mcgill.ca> > > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 3:04 PM > > Subject: Re: List of estates--Grenada: De Freitas > > > > > > > Hi Leonora > > > > > > E.M. De Freitas is listed (p. 16) as proprietor/manager of Woodlands > > Estate, St. George's (700 acres, producing 1,000 Brls. sugar and 2,500 > Gals. > > rum). Believe it or not, Dougalston Estate was not included in the list. > > > > > > Daphne > > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > > > What is a Mailing List? > > > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > > What is a Mailing List? > > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > __________________________________________________________________________ Join Freeserve http://www.freeserve.com/time/ Winner of the 2003 Internet Service Providers' Association awards for Best Unmetered ISP and Best Consumer Application.