Ma Omni Sancho Thomas's children are: Clarence Thomas - deceased, whose children are: Harold, Bridget, Lilian, Asquith, Leonard, Kenneth. They live in the USA. Henry Thomas - known as striking Henry - a boxer - deceased Albert is the descendent of Henry, who died before Albert was born Sonny Thomas - known as Sonny Shark - deceased Dora Samuels, whose children are: Emerson, Maybel. Maybel married Kingston, and had 15 (yes 15) children, some of whom are in the US and one in Dutch Guyana. Dora has 13 Grandchildren, 54 great grandchildren, 21 great, great grandchildren. Dora dies in her 92nd year in December 2001, in NY. If you can help with contact information; email:childrenofsancho@yahoo.com

Is this the same as the island known in the 1700's as "St. Dominique" that was a french settlement? If so, my ancestors came from there and I'm very interested in any information on it. Marsha Faulk mailto:hhinsulation@g-net.net ----- Original Message ----- From: RossignolP <rossignolp@aol.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 3:54 AM Subject: Plan of Dominica 1777 Bonjour At museum of Roseau there is a wonderful Plan of the island of Dominica as surveyed from the year 1765 to 1773 by John Byres Chief Surveyor London Printed for S. Hooper, No 25, Ludgate Hill MDCCLXXVII This plan is also at PRO. I want to know 1°) The reference of this plan and of the list of settlers 2°) If the list of settlers is on Internet 3°) If it is possible to have a copy of this plan from PRO (price) Regards Merci d'avance Philippe Rossignol

I have been searching for information on the Ottley family in the island of Barbuda. Tim Anderson sent me the following statements: "I have 2 copies of a book that is essentially a catalog of letters -- The Codrington Correspondence. This branch of Codringtons had some estates in Antigua -- notably Betty's Hope-- and essentially all of Barbuda (I thought this was an overstatement, but it is not). Over 500 documents are cataloged and summarized from the 1740s to the 1840s. I have been more interested in the period after manumission (where my personal collection of Antigua correspondence picks up). The early letters certainly mention buying slaves as well as consideration of freeing slaves (in the 1700s in Barbuda). The main concern of the 18th C letters were sea battles in the West Indies with France and Spain. "Two letters in 1814-15 from a slave John Edwards seeking to buy his freedom in the first letter and sending thanks in the second -- the second letter endorsed by "CBC" [Christopher Bethell Codrington] 'My servant when I am in Antigua whom I manumitted' "I found an Ottley letter in the book 1809 George W. Ottley of Parham House gives his advice on the selling of Codrington estates, Bolans and Jennings." The note was signed, "Tim in Gaithersburg" Does anyone have any further information on the activities of George W. Ottley and Christopher Bethell Codrington in the island of Barbuda or Antigua? Nevilla E. Ottley ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# #################################################################

Does anyone besides Jim Cropper have any information on Ottley family on the island of St. Vincent, and their emigration to the island of Tobago at any time? I would appreciate leads. Thank you. Nevilla E. Ottley

Bonjour At museum of Roseau there is a wonderful Plan of the island of Dominica as surveyed from the year 1765 to 1773 by John Byres Chief Surveyor London Printed for S. Hooper, No 25, Ludgate Hill MDCCLXXVII This plan is also at PRO. I want to know 1°) The reference of this plan and of the list of settlers 2°) If the list of settlers is on Internet 3°) If it is possible to have a copy of this plan from PRO (price) Regards Merci d'avance Philippe Rossignol

Thanks, PHC. Listers please remember that I am looking for the name and its variations in the West Indies. ----- Original Message ----- From: <PHCfin86@aol.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 7:31 AM Subject: Re: Allicock and variations > I have heard of Elcock in London, England > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked > >

I have heard of Elcock in London, England

Jim Thanks for that information. I had found that reference and that, in fact, is my great grandfather and great, great grandparents. The search continues ... Regards Di ----- Original Message ----- From: "James W Cropper" <jameswcropper@sympatico.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 11:52 PM Subject: PATTON in SV > Hi Di, > > The best source for St. Vincent information is the transcriptions of the > records in St. George's Cathedral, Church of England, in Kingstown, St. > Vincent, BWI. The source is the LDS [Latter Day Saints] Family History > Library Film # 1162485 and contains the Parish Records of St George, St > Andrew and others from 1765-1870. > > Regarding the BMDs for PATTON/PATTEN there are 1-0-5 in the transcripts. It > shows John Henry PATTEN baptized 28 Aug 1836 with his parents as Henry > PATTEN, a Carpenter, (born 1811 & buried 21 Jul 1855 at age 44) and > Elizabeth Harriet. > > Jim C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Di Coghlan" <dialincc@tpg.com.au> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: "Planter" > > > > I received your posting to the Caribbean mailing list and was interested > to > > read that you have located family members in St Vincent. I am looking > for > > any information about the life of my great grandfather - John Henry Dunlop > > Patton, born in Kingstown ST Vincent in 1835. Could you tell me how you > > found your information please? I have been looking for five years! > > Thanks > > Di Coghlan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <MReilly169@aol.com> > > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 4:45 AM > > Subject: Re: "Planter" > > > > > > > I don't know about Barbados, but I can tell you that my ggrandfather on > > St. Vincent, who was from a "coloured" family although light enough to > > "pass," (as it would be put in the US) is described in a number of legal > > documents as a "Planter," and so are two of his associates, brothers, who > I > > have pretty good reason to believe were also of mixed race and may have > been > > his first cousins. I only have a photo of one of them (the associates, I > > mean), but he looks decidedly un-European. Among the three of them, they > > controlled a good portion of the agricultural land in SV betweem 1880 and > > 1900, more or less. > > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > > > What is a Mailing List? > > > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ >

Rod Neep has added a few general interest mailing lists which some of you may be interested in. Just thought I would pass it along. Cheers.........Heather List Admin - ENG-CUL http://www.british-genealogy.com ===================================================================== British-Genealogy.com has a new set of mailing lists devoted to topical aspects of family history. http://www.british-genealogy.com TOPICAL MAILING LISTS * Ancestors Lifestyle A mailing list specifically for discussion about how our ancestors lived. Everything from tin baths to outside toilets, regional foods, etc. * Canals & Watermen A mailing list specifically for discussion about history and family history relating to canals and watermen. * Census (British) A mailing list specifically for discussion about British censuses, and how to get the most out of them for family history research. * Emigrants A mailing list specifically for those who had ancestors who emigrated from Britain to America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, etc. How did they go about it, why did they do it? * Institutions (work-houses & hospitals) A mailing list specifically for discussion and help on institutions, such as work-houses, hospitals, etc. and how they relate to family history. * Mariners A mailing list specifically for discussion about British mariners, seafarers and the British navy, as it relates to history and family history. * Newspapers A mailing list specifically for discussion about old newspapers and where to locate them, obituaries, etc. and the use of old newspapers in family history research. * Occupations This mailing list is for the discussion of trades and occupations relating to history and family history. * Parish Law (poor law, settlement, bastardy, etc.) This mailing list is specifically for the discussion of parish law, poor law, rights of settlement, and bastardy, etc. as the law related to our ancestors. * Railwaymen A mailing list specifically for discussion of ancestors who were employed railwaymen, and the history of the various British railway companies. * Reading old documents A mailing list specifically for discussion about how to read old documents such as parish registers, wills, etc. Old handwriting, Latin in old documents, etc. * Sojourners (circus people, travellers, etc.) This mailing list is specifically for discussion about "sojourners" - people who are visitors to a parish (passing through), such as gypsies, travellers, circus and fairground people, travelling hawkers, railway labourers, etc. People who are, not surprisingly, difficult to track down in our family history research. * Town life A mailing list specifically for discussion about life in towns and cities as applied to family history research. * Village life A mailing list specifically for discussion about village and rural life as applied to our ancestors and family history research. Farmers, agricultural labourers, cottagers, etc. To subscribe to any of these mailing lists, or the British county mailing lists to help you with your family history research, go to: http://www.british-genealogy.com ================================================================ Rod Neep British-Genealogy.com Mailing List Co-ordinator email: listcoord@british-genealogy.com web : http://www.british-genealogy.com

Dear Listers , I just joined the list. I am looking for any Allicock, or Allercott and variations of this name throughout the West Indies. The variations are too many to list but generally there may be one "l"; there may be an "e" at the end, the "i" may be replaced by an "e", an "ey", or an "er"; the "k" may be replaced by a "tt" and the "i" may be dropped altogether and become Alcock or Allcock, or the "A" may be replaced by an "E" with any combination of the foregoing other letter changes mentioned. I am hoping to hear from any-one who has come across the Allicocke name or its variations in their research. Looking forward to hearing from any of you. Thanks. Richard Allicock Toronto, Canada

My information is mostly from old legal documents that I happened to inherit, and corresponding with elderly relatives. The LDS transcriptions for SV have filled in some gaps, however.

Hi Di, The best source for St. Vincent information is the transcriptions of the records in St. George's Cathedral, Church of England, in Kingstown, St. Vincent, BWI. The source is the LDS [Latter Day Saints] Family History Library Film # 1162485 and contains the Parish Records of St George, St Andrew and others from 1765-1870. Regarding the BMDs for PATTON/PATTEN there are 1-0-5 in the transcripts. It shows John Henry PATTEN baptized 28 Aug 1836 with his parents as Henry PATTEN, a Carpenter, (born 1811 & buried 21 Jul 1855 at age 44) and Elizabeth Harriet. Jim C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Di Coghlan" <dialincc@tpg.com.au> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:08 PM Subject: Re: "Planter" > I received your posting to the Caribbean mailing list and was interested to > read that you have located family members in St Vincent. I am looking for > any information about the life of my great grandfather - John Henry Dunlop > Patton, born in Kingstown ST Vincent in 1835. Could you tell me how you > found your information please? I have been looking for five years! > Thanks > Di Coghlan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <MReilly169@aol.com> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 4:45 AM > Subject: Re: "Planter" > > > > I don't know about Barbados, but I can tell you that my ggrandfather on > St. Vincent, who was from a "coloured" family although light enough to > "pass," (as it would be put in the US) is described in a number of legal > documents as a "Planter," and so are two of his associates, brothers, who I > have pretty good reason to believe were also of mixed race and may have been > his first cousins. I only have a photo of one of them (the associates, I > mean), but he looks decidedly un-European. Among the three of them, they > controlled a good portion of the agricultural land in SV betweem 1880 and > 1900, more or less. > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > > What is a Mailing List? > > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked >

Hi Lenora, I have never come across anything that gives information about businesses in the time period that you mention except for the LDS public records. The index will give you the location of all of Domingo's transactions, then you would need to order the films of the individual register(s). However, I have used a book that is in the Rare Book Room of my library and I think that do I recall seeing De Freitas in the listing of persons holding liqueur licences--some of my ancestors made good money from selling rum also--but I'm not positive. I probably will have to go back to that book at some point, although it won't be for a while, but when I do I can check and let you know. It might answer one little question, but I can't promise that it won't raise others. Daphne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenora Anderson" <ldanderson@sbcglobal.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 11:10 AM Subject: Carenage tavern? > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from Portugal???? > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > Lenora... > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > >

It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from Portugal???? Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. Lenora...

Concerning the wealth over race factor in St Vincent, I think you're right Ernest. I had the chance to speak to an 80+ year old Vincentian-Canadian univesity professor last week and this topic came up.I was interested in the race factor in St Vincent and he said that as a boy of mixed heritage growing up there, he never experienced any prejudice which he can recall. It was more a class thing, a money thing than a colour thing. If you were black and had money (which was rare in those days) you were pretty much on par with those who did. I don't think that colour prejudice was as rampant in St Vincent as it was in Barbados. People seemed to get along as they do today. Whenever I visit St Vincent I never sense prejudice in the air. It could be that's because people of colour are the ones in control of the government and the economy much more so than happens in Barbados. You mention the late settlement of the island. This could play a role too. Ignorance breeds fear and if the whites in St Vincent who came in were so far removed (or wanted to maintain that position) from their fellow black islanders it could have been a breeding ground for hatred and distrust. I'm not saying that there is no prejudices on the island (one only need recall the attitudes of Mount Pleasant residents back in the old days on Bequia)and lets not forget the labour riots that were going on all across the region in the 1930s. Hmmm...the Moyne Commission comes to mind. Maybe the Brits were less tolerant on St Vincent.It could also be that the Scottish influence was one of more understanding and acceptance and that has been passed down through the generations. But this is only my opinion. I've never been to Scotland, so what do I know? What does the list think? Cheryl Hazell _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Hi, all... I thought I would advise those in the New York area who might want to do lookups (or even see the books with a view to purchasing) that a set out of the second print run will be on view at the Society of Arts and Letters of the Americas, a project sponsored by the New York Foundation for the Arts (http://www.nyfa.org/ located in New York. I can't tell you the exact date/s because they are waiting for delivery, but you could call Ms. Jane Gregory Rubin and ask: Tel: 212-327-1023, Fax: 1-212-327-4189 The second print run is not as "fancy" as the first. The fold-out illustrations are now reduced to full page size - but those that were in colour are still in colour. Reduction was necessary because the large colour copying machine that was available in 1999 is no longer available. The large map in the front of one volume retains its original size, however. I am also sending Jane Rubin a copy of the VERY large map of Antigua I gave to the pre-purchasers of the first print run for a display, so those who are interested can take a look at that too. If you want to write to Jane direct, please write and ask me for her email address. I do not want to give it out here on the List for obvious reasons. Regards, James C. "Jim" Lynch 510 Conley Street, Thornhill, ON L4J6T8, CANADA 905-760-2413 (direct, message machine) http://www.candoo.com/

I received your posting to the Caribbean mailing list and was interested to read that you have located family members in St Vincent. I am looking for any information about the life of my great grandfather - John Henry Dunlop Patton, born in Kingstown ST Vincent in 1835. Could you tell me how you found your information please? I have been looking for five years! Thanks Di Coghlan ----- Original Message ----- From: <MReilly169@aol.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 4:45 AM Subject: Re: "Planter" > I don't know about Barbados, but I can tell you that my ggrandfather on St. Vincent, who was from a "coloured" family although light enough to "pass," (as it would be put in the US) is described in a number of legal documents as a "Planter," and so are two of his associates, brothers, who I have pretty good reason to believe were also of mixed race and may have been his first cousins. I only have a photo of one of them (the associates, I mean), but he looks decidedly un-European. Among the three of them, they controlled a good portion of the agricultural land in SV betweem 1880 and 1900, more or less. > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html >

Marcos, that is very interesting: I wonder if the language usage varies from island to island. There certainly seem to have been great differences between the societies of Barbados & St. Vincent, perhaps because of St. Vincent being settled so late, and without the huge population of Barbados. What role might the very strong Scots influence have played in St. Vincent? Perhaps wealth was a more important factor than race. Does anyone have other examples from other islands? Ernest M. Wiltshire -----Original Message----- From: MReilly169@aol.com [mailto:MReilly169@aol.com] Subject: Re: "Planter" I don't know about Barbados, but I can tell you that my ggrandfather on St. Vincent, who was from a "coloured" family although light enough to "pass," (as it would be put in the US) is described in a number of legal documents as a "Planter,"

In Jamaica and Cayman I have found Planter to mean the owner of a farm or planation -- does not appear to be a link between size of land and use of planter Pre 1834/5 I've found it used for those classified as 'White' and 'Free Coloured' but have not come across any 'Free Black' After 1834/5 I still found only those classification listed as Planters -- but that is may be as no free black persons 'owned' farms or estates. In Honduras however the term referred to anyone who owned the farm - colour not relevant. Farm Worker was used for workers vs owners. In Ja and Cayman I've found the term Labourer to be all encompassing as anyone (other than a trades person eg blacksmith, fisherman, sawyer etc) who worked for someone else outside the house Towards the end of the 1800's the term seems to have died out Rhona "Ernest M. Wiltshire" wrote: > Marcos, that is very interesting: I wonder if the language usage varies > from island to island. There certainly seem to have been great > differences between the societies of Barbados & St. Vincent, perhaps > because of St. Vincent being settled so late, and without the huge > population of Barbados. What role might the very strong Scots influence > have played in St. Vincent? Perhaps wealth was a more important factor > than race. Does anyone have other examples from other islands? > > Ernest M. Wiltshire > -----Original Message----- > From: MReilly169@aol.com [mailto:MReilly169@aol.com] > Subject: Re: "Planter" > I don't know about Barbados, but I can tell you that my ggrandfather on > St. Vincent, who was from a "coloured" family although light enough to > "pass," (as it would be put in the US) is described in a number of legal > documents as a "Planter," > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/

Hi Marcos, You know how curious I am to see old photos...especially Vincies..do you think you could email me a copy of that associate pic? also, which part of the island did they have this land? what were their names? ok.ok. my curiosity is getting the better of me. Peace, Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail