Sancho family of Guyana are interested in communicating with the descendants of Mary Sancho who married Cecil Sandy. The known children of the Sancho-Sandy union are - Cecil, Cecily, and Sarah Matilda Sandy. The following are known names of Sandy family of Golden Grove, East Sea Coast Demerara - Gussy, Jonathan, Bertie, Neville, Roslyn, and Winston Sandy.(Guyanese Police Officer) Your information will be well appreciated by the Sanchos of Guyana. Sancho Mailing Lists email:sancho-L-request@rootsweb.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalsanchos group email:globalsanchos@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/descendantsofsancho group email:descendantsofsancho@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goldengrovenabaclis group email:goldengrovenabaclis@yahoogroups.com Sidney Marious email: smarious@utnet.utoledo.edu Chioma Phillips email: cphillips@usco.com fax:(919)992-4618 Venica Sancho email: venica@sympatico.ca Kenneth Robertson 2901 Upton Avenue Toledo, OH 43606 Tel:419-472-8379 email:kajrob@aol.com

Dean, I know that Sebastian was a well used DeFreitas name - however - I came across a DeFrietas "vaguely" related to my Johnsons in Barbados, though the family had moved on to Trini at some point. It is from World Gen Web & not confirmed by me : My G-grandmother was a Johnson - married to a Clarke in Barbados. My grandmother's brother's second wife (!) was also a Johnson. Plodding around to see what became of them, I came across her cousin in Trinidad (who knew?). His name was Victor Colin Anthony Johnson, and he married an Edith Florence Sheppard . She was apparently the daughter of Charles Sebastian Sheppard b.1884, son of Alfred Sheppard, possibly England, and Virginia DeFrietas, she the daughter of a Sebastian DeFrietas - wife unknown. The info on World Gen Web doesn't have where he was from and dates are just approx from working backwards, giving 25 yrs a generation ( just a guess) I'd say Sebastian was b around 1820 ???. Lisa

Sancho and the Parkinson, Ogle, and White family connection The Sancho family are interested in identifying, locating and relating to the Parkinson family who have a connection to the Golden Grove - Nabaclis area. It is known that the Parkinson family consisted of three sisters, Barbara, Isabella and "Teacher" Parkinson. "Teacher" Parkinson is the mother of Cyril, Lydia and Laddie White. Isabella Parkinson married a Mr. Ogle, resided in the U.S.A and returned to British Guiana now Guyana in the 1950's. The Ogle children are Lillian, William and a shell-shocked veteran of World War Two. If you have or can obtain information on these folks and thier descendants, you are asked to kindly contact descendantsofsancho@yahoogroups.com. Sancho Mailing Lists email:sancho-L-request@rootsweb.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalsanchos group email:globalsanchos@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/descendantsofsancho group email:descendantsofsancho@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goldengrovenabaclis/ group email:goldengrovenabaclis@yahoogroups.com Sidney Marious email: smarious@utnet.utoledo.edu Chioma Phillips email: cphillips@usco.com fax:(919)992-4618 Venica Sancho email: venica@sympatico.ca Kenneth Robertson email: kajrob@aol.com Thanking you is Selwyn H. Ross a.k.a. M'lilwana Osanku A son of Muriel Sancho A Grandson of Alexander Sancho.

Dear John, I've done quite a bit of research in Barbados and had a 3xGreat Grandfather who was a "doctor" but he didn't work for the government so the archives dept. couldn't help in that respect. I think he set himself up as a "doctor" because later on he was a merchant! Anyway you could try the archives dept. to see if they have any information on your doctor working for the government. Trouble is they won't do any detailed research for you, they just refer you to private researchers, also they are very slow in replying to letters or e-mails, Caribbean time you know! Best wishes, Adrian Jervis ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Paul Bradford" <johnpaul.bradford@sympatico.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 3:12 AM Subject: New To List - SPRINGHAMS in Barbadoes > Holy Thursday > > Just came across a distant branch of the family which settled in > Barbados. John SPRINGHAM married Sarah Berry in 1663. He is referred to > as "Doctor". I have the will of one son, also a John and also a doctor > in the Royal Navy. Is it likely that I will find additional information > on these people beyond the parish records? Also, could anyone take a > guess as to how they wound up so far from home? What would John the > Elder have been doing there at that time? The area is new to me. Just > starting to scan through histories of Barbados on line. Not much there. > Most SPRINGHAMS in England were not exactly upwardly mobile but one > branch became involved in trade in the 1550's and seems to have produced > some important merchants over the next century and marrying into some > gentry families. Anyone able to hazard a guess as to what status > "Doctor" Springham might have had? > > God Bless > > John Paul Bradford > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked >

Good Friday Adrian, I'll give the Archives a shout. I suspect this Doctor John Springham is at least of a merchant family of Springhams from London. I am of Springham descent myself but from a less upwardly mobile group (you know, the type that produced hundreds of "agricultural labourers" in the English censuses of the 19th century!) This Dr. John married a girl whose father was granted thousand of areas of land a few years later in New York and New Jeresy. I figure he would not want his daughter married to someone of little means which again makes me suspect a merchant family. Good to hear you have a man who was both in Barbados. Time for me to learn why Englishmen went to Barbados, what they did there, what a doctor was like in the 17th century as well as poking into some American history for the first time. I love this hobby. I learn so much. Thanks for you reply. God Bless John Paul Adrian Jervis wrote: >Dear John, >I've done quite a bit of research in Barbados and had a 3xGreat Grandfather >who was a "doctor" but he didn't work for the government so the archives >dept. couldn't help in that respect. I think he set himself up as a "doctor" >because later on he was a merchant! Anyway you could try the archives dept. >to see if they have any information on your doctor working for the >government. Trouble is they won't do any detailed research for you, they >just refer you to private researchers, also they are very slow in replying >to letters or e-mails, Caribbean time you know! >Best wishes, >Adrian Jervis >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Paul Bradford" <johnpaul.bradford@sympatico.ca> >To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 3:12 AM >Subject: New To List - SPRINGHAMS in Barbadoes > > >>Holy Thursday >> >>Just came across a distant branch of the family which settled in >>Barbados. John SPRINGHAM married Sarah Berry in 1663. He is referred to >>as "Doctor". I have the will of one son, also a John and also a doctor >>in the Royal Navy. Is it likely that I will find additional information >>on these people beyond the parish records? Also, could anyone take a >>guess as to how they wound up so far from home? What would John the >>Elder have been doing there at that time? The area is new to me. Just >>starting to scan through histories of Barbados on line. Not much there. >>Most SPRINGHAMS in England were not exactly upwardly mobile but one >>branch became involved in trade in the 1550's and seems to have produced >>some important merchants over the next century and marrying into some >>gentry families. Anyone able to hazard a guess as to what status >>"Doctor" Springham might have had? >> >>God Bless >> >>John Paul Bradford >> >> >> >>==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >>all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at >> >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > >>Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked >> > > > >==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ >Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked > >

Richard, Are any French surnames of St.Vincent in the late 18C known to you? - such as Bernier, Questel, LaPlace and Brin? These are families that came from Saint-Barthelemy. Thanks for any comments. Charles Loeber in New York City

Richard, Actually we know exactly how it happened from his memoir. He bought a tanning business that had foundered from the previous owener, inheriting the employees that already worked for the firm. Dean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Bond" <RichardBond@webtv.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 9:30 PM Subject: De Freitas in Trinidad, Tanning Leather > While I do not know the exact circumstance of your ancestor there is a > picture that I get from inductive logic. Treating skins is a very messy > and unpleasant job. It is removing the carcasse then stretching it on a > frame to scrape off the remining meat and fat. People who do that kind > of work frequently have a lingering odor that comes from handling the > skins of carrion. After the dressing is done the skins are boiled in a > vat of cure. This cure can be made a number of ways but sometimes > included dried dog feces and livestock urine as well as brine and bark. > It is very profitable as few people want to do it as a trade. I doubt > that your ancestor was doing the worst work himself. Owning a rum shop > would put him in contact with just the sort of marginal laborers who > would be willng to take that on. > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ >

Dans l'article <004501c30435$967c1d40$a236ddd1@hendrix>, hhinsulation@g-net.net ("H & H Insulation")a écrit : > >Is this the same as the island known in the 1700's as "St. Dominique" that >was a french >settlement? If so, my ancestors came from there and I'm very interested in >any >information on it. > Bonjour St Dominique was St Domingue, now Haïti, Dominica is between Guadeloupe and Martinique cordialement Philippe Rossignol

Dans l'article <000a01c30455$6c32b6a0$bee486d9@tinykncwubxl>, guy@gcgrannum.freeserve.co.uk ("Guy Grannum")a écrit : > >The plan of Dominica surveyed by John Byres, 1776 is held by The National >Archives (Public Record Office) under the reference CO 700/Dominica6. >According to 'Maps and Plans in the Public Record Office, vol 2 America and >West Indies' a printed reference book is attached containing a key to the >owners and the areas of lands. > >I've no idea about the other 2 questions you ask although you can apply for >an estimate for the cost of copying online via >http://www.pro.gov.uk/recordcopying/default.htm > >Hope that this helps > Bonjour Guy Merci beaucoup. I have a (bad) copy typescript of the reference book attached. I try to translate it in Word but I have to verify with the original list because the french names are sometimes wrong. An other questions : Some places are hold by "Poor Settlers". I never saw this in the french WI. Does that mean poors could have place ? Who gave it ? Or are they too poor to have their names recorded on the document ? Cordialement Philippe Rossignol

My mother-in-law is fluent in Patois learned in Grenada around 1910. Seven years later, the family moved to Tobago. Her children remember her carrying on business discussions in Patois with visiting Grenadians until one of them learned enough French in college to keep up with conversation. Tim On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 00:04:28 +0000 (UTC), ldanderson@sbcglobal.net ("Lenora Anderson") wrote: >Dean,, our grandmother under discussion here spoke mostly French I am >told..how could this be coming from Grenada?? OR did she learn it as that is >what was spoken where she was born in St. Vincent ( family records, on death >certificate.. other death record said St. John's).. so its confuses me as to >which is right.. the info given by grandchildren in the USA.... >----- Original Message ----- >From: "CaribGenWeb Coordinator" <caribgw@bellsouth.net> >To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:43 AM >Subject: Re: Defreitas in Grenada > > >> Lenora & Cindy, >> >> My understanding is that most of the Portuguese immigrants to the West >> Indies were Madeiran. The stories that I have read about the early >Madeiran >> Immigrants to Trinidad and Guyana indicate that most of them were, in >fact, >> virtually penniless when they arrived. Many of them were indentured >> servants. They would work out their indenture while conducting small >scale >> commerce on the side, then many of them stayed to start businesses of >their >> own. Rum shops were a common business venture for Portuguese as they had >a >> low cost of entry. One should not confuse these establishments with a bar >> or tavern. They were typically dry goods stores that would also sell >liquor >> by the glass. Many of these stores were simply the front rooms of houses, >> and catered to the working class. >> >> Keep in mind that the "Portagees" were considered to be low-class whites. >> As such, they were not welcomed into the social circles of other Europeans >> such as the French or English. They found their niche in society - in >> conjunction with the Chinese and later the Syrians - as merchants that >> bridged the gap between the "high class" whites, and the working class >> Africans, Indians etc. Their entrepreneurial prowess made them the envy >of >> other whites, and there were even instances of riots in British Guiana >where >> Portuguese shop owners were beaten and their stores burned or looted. >> >> Earlier migrants paved the way for later waves of migration. Many Madeiran >> Portuguese kept in touch with family back "home", formed Portguese social >> clubs etc. Immigration from Madeira continued up until the early 1900's. >> >> My own Great Grandfather is a classic example of the West Indian >Portuguese >> success story. His parents came to St. Vincent in the late 1800's where >he >> was born. He left St. Vincent to work for his older brother who had >started >> a business in British Guiana. He went to sea as a deck hand to see more >of >> the world, worked as a civilian employee of the US Army during the Spanish >> American War, and arrived in Trinidad at the turn of the century. He >bought >> a rum shop with his savings, parleyed his earnings into a leather tannery, >> then began making shoes and investing in real estate, including a small >> cocoa plantation. He served on the City Council of Port of Spain for over >> 30 years, and served one term as Mayor. Even with those credentials, his >> son (my Grandfather) had to sneak around to date my French Creole >> grandmother. Her father did not approve of her dating a Portuguese.... >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Dean de Freitas >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> >> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:16 PM >> Subject: Defreitas in Grenada >> >> >> > Hello Lenora, >> > >> > Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this >> > Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people >> > emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was >> > consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were >> > forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I >> > wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - >> > they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived >> > on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for >> > that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, >> > etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe >> > Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. >> > >> > Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living >> > relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. >> > Best wishes, >> > Cindy >> > On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. >> > > >> > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. >> > > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often >> > > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic >> > > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might >> > > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in >> > > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by >> > > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in >> > > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation >> > > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get >> > > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > >> Portugal???? >> > > >> > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it >> > > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. >> > > >> > > Lenora... >> > > >> >> >> ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >> For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin >boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/

Holy Thursday Just came across a distant branch of the family which settled in Barbados. John SPRINGHAM married Sarah Berry in 1663. He is referred to as "Doctor". I have the will of one son, also a John and also a doctor in the Royal Navy. Is it likely that I will find additional information on these people beyond the parish records? Also, could anyone take a guess as to how they wound up so far from home? What would John the Elder have been doing there at that time? The area is new to me. Just starting to scan through histories of Barbados on line. Not much there. Most SPRINGHAMS in England were not exactly upwardly mobile but one branch became involved in trade in the 1550's and seems to have produced some important merchants over the next century and marrying into some gentry families. Anyone able to hazard a guess as to what status "Doctor" Springham might have had? God Bless John Paul Bradford

While I do not know the exact circumstance of your ancestor there is a picture that I get from inductive logic. Treating skins is a very messy and unpleasant job. It is removing the carcasse then stretching it on a frame to scrape off the remining meat and fat. People who do that kind of work frequently have a lingering odor that comes from handling the skins of carrion. After the dressing is done the skins are boiled in a vat of cure. This cure can be made a number of ways but sometimes included dried dog feces and livestock urine as well as brine and bark. It is very profitable as few people want to do it as a trade. I doubt that your ancestor was doing the worst work himself. Owning a rum shop would put him in contact with just the sort of marginal laborers who would be willng to take that on.

The Windward Islands all had communities and families which spoke French well after the acquisition of the islands by the English.

Isn't "headman" the same as "foreman" as in Head Man In Charge

Dean,, our grandmother under discussion here spoke mostly French I am told..how could this be coming from Grenada?? OR did she learn it as that is what was spoken where she was born in St. Vincent ( family records, on death certificate.. other death record said St. John's).. so its confuses me as to which is right.. the info given by grandchildren in the USA.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CaribGenWeb Coordinator" <caribgw@bellsouth.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Defreitas in Grenada > Lenora & Cindy, > > My understanding is that most of the Portuguese immigrants to the West > Indies were Madeiran. The stories that I have read about the early Madeiran > Immigrants to Trinidad and Guyana indicate that most of them were, in fact, > virtually penniless when they arrived. Many of them were indentured > servants. They would work out their indenture while conducting small scale > commerce on the side, then many of them stayed to start businesses of their > own. Rum shops were a common business venture for Portuguese as they had a > low cost of entry. One should not confuse these establishments with a bar > or tavern. They were typically dry goods stores that would also sell liquor > by the glass. Many of these stores were simply the front rooms of houses, > and catered to the working class. > > Keep in mind that the "Portagees" were considered to be low-class whites. > As such, they were not welcomed into the social circles of other Europeans > such as the French or English. They found their niche in society - in > conjunction with the Chinese and later the Syrians - as merchants that > bridged the gap between the "high class" whites, and the working class > Africans, Indians etc. Their entrepreneurial prowess made them the envy of > other whites, and there were even instances of riots in British Guiana where > Portuguese shop owners were beaten and their stores burned or looted. > > Earlier migrants paved the way for later waves of migration. Many Madeiran > Portuguese kept in touch with family back "home", formed Portguese social > clubs etc. Immigration from Madeira continued up until the early 1900's. > > My own Great Grandfather is a classic example of the West Indian Portuguese > success story. His parents came to St. Vincent in the late 1800's where he > was born. He left St. Vincent to work for his older brother who had started > a business in British Guiana. He went to sea as a deck hand to see more of > the world, worked as a civilian employee of the US Army during the Spanish > American War, and arrived in Trinidad at the turn of the century. He bought > a rum shop with his savings, parleyed his earnings into a leather tannery, > then began making shoes and investing in real estate, including a small > cocoa plantation. He served on the City Council of Port of Spain for over > 30 years, and served one term as Mayor. Even with those credentials, his > son (my Grandfather) had to sneak around to date my French Creole > grandmother. Her father did not approve of her dating a Portuguese.... > > Hope this helps. > > Dean de Freitas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:16 PM > Subject: Defreitas in Grenada > > > > Hello Lenora, > > > > Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this > > Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people > > emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was > > consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were > > forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I > > wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - > > they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived > > on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for > > that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, > > etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe > > Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living > > relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. > > Best wishes, > > Cindy > > On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > > > > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > > > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > > > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > > > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > > > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > > > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > > > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > > > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > > > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > > > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > > Portugal???? > > > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > > > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > > > > > Lenora... > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/

Hello Dean havent heard from you in a long time.. I am going by family sotry only as far as background goes..I "assumed "that there was some money in the family as there was said to be a lot when in Madeira (?).. I do know that Sebastians sons went on to become members of Parliment and appeared in who Who In the World Books.. And still lines appear in British government papers and political writings there..So of course I thought it would take some good background to be able to be in the whos Who In the world books as they have to be selective and draw the line somewhere....But the part about the RUM shop might make more sense as the oldest children of this line,, thoug very young when he died, remembered being sent upstairs(?) when the "pirates" came to frequent the business... Now that I know Sebastion had business before he started plantations,, it seems that he started the platantion and spice growing ,, and also rum,, for the benefit of his children...they inherited Dougalston. It looks like it was just another business venture for the sake of the children.. Of course if you sold enough rum to the pirates that frequented his business.. you could afford to build estates for his children.. Mostly it seems for the benefit of Anna Petronella deFreitas who married Peter Brown,, who's family became affiliated with and help manage Dougalston. Perhaps these Browns and deFreitas all started out together???. I can see that I have to find a good source of Madeira and try there again.. my local LDS is small and has llittle knowledge in this area. Good to hear from you again. Lenora. ----- Original Message ----- From: "CaribGenWeb Coordinator" <caribgw@bellsouth.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Defreitas in Grenada > Lenora & Cindy, > > My understanding is that most of the Portuguese immigrants to the West > Indies were Madeiran. The stories that I have read about the early Madeiran > Immigrants to Trinidad and Guyana indicate that most of them were, in fact, > virtually penniless when they arrived. Many of them were indentured > servants. They would work out their indenture while conducting small scale > commerce on the side, then many of them stayed to start businesses of their > own. Rum shops were a common business venture for Portuguese as they had a > low cost of entry. One should not confuse these establishments with a bar > or tavern. They were typically dry goods stores that would also sell liquor > by the glass. Many of these stores were simply the front rooms of houses, > and catered to the working class. > > Keep in mind that the "Portagees" were considered to be low-class whites. > As such, they were not welcomed into the social circles of other Europeans > such as the French or English. They found their niche in society - in > conjunction with the Chinese and later the Syrians - as merchants that > bridged the gap between the "high class" whites, and the working class > Africans, Indians etc. Their entrepreneurial prowess made them the envy of > other whites, and there were even instances of riots in British Guiana where > Portuguese shop owners were beaten and their stores burned or looted. > > Earlier migrants paved the way for later waves of migration. Many Madeiran > Portuguese kept in touch with family back "home", formed Portguese social > clubs etc. Immigration from Madeira continued up until the early 1900's. > > My own Great Grandfather is a classic example of the West Indian Portuguese > success story. His parents came to St. Vincent in the late 1800's where he > was born. He left St. Vincent to work for his older brother who had started > a business in British Guiana. He went to sea as a deck hand to see more of > the world, worked as a civilian employee of the US Army during the Spanish > American War, and arrived in Trinidad at the turn of the century. He bought > a rum shop with his savings, parleyed his earnings into a leather tannery, > then began making shoes and investing in real estate, including a small > cocoa plantation. He served on the City Council of Port of Spain for over > 30 years, and served one term as Mayor. Even with those credentials, his > son (my Grandfather) had to sneak around to date my French Creole > grandmother. Her father did not approve of her dating a Portuguese.... > > Hope this helps. > > Dean de Freitas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:16 PM > Subject: Defreitas in Grenada > > > > Hello Lenora, > > > > Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this > > Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people > > emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was > > consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were > > forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I > > wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - > > they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived > > on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for > > that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, > > etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe > > Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living > > relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. > > Best wishes, > > Cindy > > On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > > > > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > > > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > > > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > > > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > > > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > > > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > > > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > > > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > > > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > > > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > > Portugal???? > > > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > > > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > > > > > Lenora... > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/

Cindy,, yes I have been told that the deFreitas came from Madeira,, and from a supposedly weathy family.. but I haven't been able to get back far enough from Grenada to prove this.. but the story is the same with all the deFreitas family members as being told they were originally from Madeira.As far as we can tell. they came to Grenada in mid to early 1800's. Unfortunately I am unable to come up with the Blue Book you mention...they were said to have been active in politics in Portugal also. maybe this had something to do with this all too.. I have tried searching Portugal as I was also told that they had a lot of family in Lisbon and close areas and that might be the very earliest family lines from there then to Madiera.. I have checked out books from the lilbrary but they haven't bee of much help.. mostly typical repeats of history. such as school books etc. I did go to the Portugeuse web and joined.. There are a lot of people out there trying to trace this family! Of course I understand while its uncommon in our days of searching.. tis a common name there.. but I am also told that they had a big family so if I can find Sebastian deFreitas there, it will lead to others in the family. Thanks to all who have helped me so much. Of it werent for your care and guidance I would have given up by now.. Lenora ----- Original Message ----- From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:16 AM Subject: Defreitas in Grenada > Hello Lenora, > > Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this > Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people > emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was > consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were > forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I > wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - > they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived > on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for > that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, > etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe > Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. > > Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living > relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. > Best wishes, > Cindy > On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > Portugal???? > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > > > Lenora... > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/

Lenora & Cindy, My understanding is that most of the Portuguese immigrants to the West Indies were Madeiran. The stories that I have read about the early Madeiran Immigrants to Trinidad and Guyana indicate that most of them were, in fact, virtually penniless when they arrived. Many of them were indentured servants. They would work out their indenture while conducting small scale commerce on the side, then many of them stayed to start businesses of their own. Rum shops were a common business venture for Portuguese as they had a low cost of entry. One should not confuse these establishments with a bar or tavern. They were typically dry goods stores that would also sell liquor by the glass. Many of these stores were simply the front rooms of houses, and catered to the working class. Keep in mind that the "Portagees" were considered to be low-class whites. As such, they were not welcomed into the social circles of other Europeans such as the French or English. They found their niche in society - in conjunction with the Chinese and later the Syrians - as merchants that bridged the gap between the "high class" whites, and the working class Africans, Indians etc. Their entrepreneurial prowess made them the envy of other whites, and there were even instances of riots in British Guiana where Portuguese shop owners were beaten and their stores burned or looted. Earlier migrants paved the way for later waves of migration. Many Madeiran Portuguese kept in touch with family back "home", formed Portguese social clubs etc. Immigration from Madeira continued up until the early 1900's. My own Great Grandfather is a classic example of the West Indian Portuguese success story. His parents came to St. Vincent in the late 1800's where he was born. He left St. Vincent to work for his older brother who had started a business in British Guiana. He went to sea as a deck hand to see more of the world, worked as a civilian employee of the US Army during the Spanish American War, and arrived in Trinidad at the turn of the century. He bought a rum shop with his savings, parleyed his earnings into a leather tannery, then began making shoes and investing in real estate, including a small cocoa plantation. He served on the City Council of Port of Spain for over 30 years, and served one term as Mayor. Even with those credentials, his son (my Grandfather) had to sneak around to date my French Creole grandmother. Her father did not approve of her dating a Portuguese.... Hope this helps. Dean de Freitas ----- Original Message ----- From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Defreitas in Grenada > Hello Lenora, > > Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this > Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people > emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was > consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were > forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I > wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - > they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived > on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for > that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, > etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe > Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. > > Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living > relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. > Best wishes, > Cindy > On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > Portugal???? > > > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > > > Lenora... > >

Are your Carriacou Wilsons by any chance related to the photographer, J.C. (John Cyril) Wilson, who lived and had a studio in Kingstown, St. Vincent from about 1880 to 1910?

Hello Lenora, Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada - they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses, etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere. Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey. Best wishes, Cindy On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb. > > It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D. > Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often > stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic > family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might > have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in > Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by > the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in > the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation > days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get > their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > Portugal???? > > Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it > all, things like this jump out and you start all over again. > > Lenora... >