J'habite en guadeloupe et je peux faire quelque recherche mais je ne parle pas anglais,ni ecris. Amicalement aline charles Guadeloupe

Lenora, You may recall my posts from the past in which I've tried to generate interest in the Scots - a misconception I continually see is the term "British" which is being taken for "English" - British is English, Scots and Irish. The Scots were a major influence in SVG and Grenada since 1763. Brown is a toughy as it can pass for both English and Scottish. BUT there were major Glasgow tobacco lords owning property on these islands and I think there were some Browns involved - check in local library for "Glasgow Tobacco Lords" by TM Devine. David Dobson is "the man" for all things Scottish in genealogy - I have several of his books and just yesterday ordered 6 new ones. An excellent reference of his pertaining to WI is Scottish Emigration to Colonial America 1607-1785 (probably the most helpful of all his books for WI information). AND I STILL recommend to you guys Karras' Sojourners in the Sun about Scots migration to the Chesapeake and Jamaica - regardless of what island you are looking at as it explains how the Scots moved and how their family structure worked. And yes, Lenora, there were (and still are) bad guys, but it depends which side of the fence you're sitting on and besides the beauty of genealogy and history is seeing the picture as it occurred and not make personal judgments that could alter the course of events. It just "is." best wishes all, Cindy ps - Cheryl, you down on Carpenter Street yet? > > > Just a question inserted here regarding the Scots... My Brown line > were > planters in Grenada... I know they were there in mid 1800's.. what > would be > the earliest date for the Scots to establish, or possibly purchase. > estates > or establish plantations..? Where can you find information regards the > establishment of a plantation?? I am sure there would be Tax Lists or > something???? I know someone on this site had a list of plantations > and when > formed in general,, but I have been unable to find it. > I am just curious as to when the Scots might have started appearing.. > Trying > to sort out the Browns I found in Grenada and their realtionships. > Thank > Lenora, > > Try this: > The Original Scots Colonists of Early America: Caribbean Supplement > 1611-1707 by David Dobson. Published by Genealogical Publishing > Company, > 1001 N. Calvert Street, Baltimore, MD 21202. 1999. x, 149 pp. $20 plus > $3.50 > p&h. > > > > Thanks Ann,, will try to get this...I guess I had better start reading > Oliver Cromwell's life...Not that it would affect me except in a > general > way,, my grandmother line--way back-- came into Cromwell line.. but > from > what I remember from school. not exactly something I would want to > brag > about????OR perhaps I was led astray by books I have read about him? > One > thing about doing genealogy,, if its so great and absolutely beautiful > and > wonderful,, with no "bad" guys in it.. it isnt really a true > genealogy!!! > Lenora >> >

Dear List, I have just discovered that my 3rd great grandparents were married in Grenada on 1 December 1820 "by virtue of a License from His Honor the President". Does this mean there might be a marriage allegation associated with the marriage licence as in the UK? If so, do such allegations still exist somewhere? Grenada? Or perhaps London? All suggestions would be gratefully received. Kevin London, England.

Hi Jim: I don't know if you're aware of this, but J. C. Philllippo wrote a book, "The climate of Jamaica" (London : Churchill, 1876). Are you also connected to James M. Phillippo, the missionary, who wrote "Jamaica, its past and present state" (Philadelphia : Saxton & Miles, 1843)? Do you have access to Patricia Jackson's web site, Jamaican Family Search? I found 39 hits on the name "Phillippo", and at least two citations for Supreme Court wills, as follows: Phillippo, James Cecil, 1895 Phillippo, Jancy, 1928 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Saunders" <Jim-Saunders@shaw.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: May 22, 2003 12:41 PM Subject: Local Government in Jamaica > My family records indicat I had at least an ancestor, possibly more than > one, who were involved in the Jamaican government in the 19th century. The > known one being Dr James Cecil Phillippo. Where can I check into this? > > Jim > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ >

Richard and all, I just found this site of "Quaker" links. http://www.quaker.org/chestnuthill/qlinks.htm Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Allicock" <richwyn@idirect.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 4:27 AM Subject: Re: Isaac Streaper > Hi Joan, > > The connections between Phildelphia and the West Indies is also an area of > interest that I have in my family research. Can you give more details and > sources? Were these brothers both born in America? Do you know if they were > practising Quakers or nominal ones? > > Richard > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joan Higgins" <jmhiggins@comcast.net> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 1:28 PM > Subject: Isaac Streaper > > > > Hello, > > I am deep into the Streeper family research. > > > > My research tells me that an Isaac Streaper went to the West Indies in > 1796. > > He would have been about 19 years old. He may have had some money to buy > > property. His family was of Quaker heritage and of German/Dutch/Palatine > > descent. > > > > Later, his brother, Richard, is a confectioner, not a baker, at the port > of > > Philadelphia. It sounds like he handled sugar. > > > > How could I learn more about Isaac? > > > > Streeper can be spelled many ways. This branch of the family spelled it > > Streaper most often. > > > > Thanks so much for any help or advice that anyone can give. > > > > Sincerely yours, > > Joan Higgins > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > > What is a Mailing List? > > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ >

Colonial Office Lists, an annual. On the open shelves at the PRO. edward Crawford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Saunders" <Jim-Saunders@shaw.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 5:41 PM Subject: Local Government in Jamaica > My family records indicat I had at least an ancestor, possibly more than > one, who were involved in the Jamaican government in the 19th century. The > known one being Dr James Cecil Phillippo. Where can I check into this? > > Jim > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > ______________________________________________________________ > This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, > powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please > visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk. > ______________________________________________________________ This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk.

My family records indicat I had at least an ancestor, possibly more than one, who were involved in the Jamaican government in the 19th century. The known one being Dr James Cecil Phillippo. Where can I check into this? Jim

The whole business of doctoring was very messy at that time, it was not at all clear who was a doctor and who was not. In 1858 the British Parliament tightened it all up and, not coincidentally, medicine started to become more effective and the status of doctors began to rise. Was it not in 1861 that Lister at Edinmburgh cut the death rate from operations by sterilising surgical instruments? But I fear the BWI up till then then were not on the cutting edge of medical practice. The other thing was that doctors were more or less apprenticed - like other skilled trades. There is a lot of material on Naval Surgeons in the PRO some of whom came to the Caribbean. The more respecable doctors came from Oxford, Cambridge, the Colleges of Surgeons (most) and Physicians (a few), Apothecaries Hall and the Scottish Universities of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and St Andrews. Not including Holland, France etc. The brother of my great grandmother was born at Vere in Jamaica in 1807 went to Aberdeen U, then the RCS and finally Paris before he qualified and went to Canada in 1833. Edward Crawford > In addition to various apothecaries and barbers passing themselves off as doctors, I have read that there was a flood of doctors to the West Indies with the passage of the Slave Acts (early 1800s) which mandated medical care for slaves and fixed fees which the planters were required to pay. Many doctors from the UK, not necessarily the best qualified ones I'm sure, went to the West Indies to take advantage of the opportunity thus created. One of them was my great grandfather's great grandfather, an Assistant Regimental Surgeon with the British Army, whose only medical training seems to have been as a "Hospital Mate," more or less the equivalent of a nurse or orderly. Illustrating the variety of people ending up in the West Indies, he seems to have been from Silesia, and probably Jewish. At the time many British Army soldiers were recruited in Eastern Europe, either through the King's German lands or as prisoners or refugees in the Napoleonic wars who switched sides. He ! > also apparently opened an apothecary shop, and his grandson, with no pretense of being a doctor but also no professional training except probably an apprenticeship to his unqualified grandfather, practiced as an apothecary. > The place, by the way, was Bequia, and then Kingstown St. Vincent. > ______________________________________________________________ This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk.

It usually helps if you know where the person may have been born because the records are sorted according to parish and district. Pauline C.

Thanks Ann,, will try to get this...I guess I had better start reading Oliver Cromwell's life...Not that it would affect me except in a general way,, my grandmother line--way back-- came into Cromwell line.. but from what I remember from school. not exactly something I would want to brag about????OR perhaps I was led astray by books I have read about him? One thing about doing genealogy,, if its so great and absolutely beautiful and wonderful,, with no "bad" guys in it.. it isnt really a true genealogy!!! Lenora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Whiting" <aqw8326@hotmail.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 10:46 AM Subject: Re: Scots in the BWI (was Doctors of Physic and Surgery in the British West Indies) > Lenora, > Try this: > The Original Scots Colonists of Early America: Caribbean Supplement > 1611-1707 by David Dobson. Published by Genealogical Publishing Company, > 1001 N. Calvert Street, Baltimore, MD 21202. 1999. x, 149 pp. $20 plus $3.50 > p&h. > > This book was fascinating to read after Smith's book Colonists in Bondage: > White Servitude and Convict Labor in America 1607-1776. Smith talked about > the process and the big picture of getting servants and convicts into the > American Colonies and the West Indies. Dobson's book gets specific with > details about the individual Scots in the Caribbean who have been identified > in the records. > > Ann > > "Sharing the information." > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html

The British gov't published a book, I believe annually, called The Colonial Office List, from 1862 to 1925. It then became The Dominions Office and Colonial Office list, and was published until 1940. It listed all the office holders in the colonies. You may be able to find them at a University near you in Canada, or gain access to them by inter-library loan. For an example of the type of offices listed in them, check out the extracts of some office holders for Trinidad here: http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/cgw_archive/trinidad/trinidad.htm Dean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Saunders" <Jim-Saunders@shaw.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 12:41 PM Subject: Local Government in Jamaica > My family records indicat I had at least an ancestor, possibly more than > one, who were involved in the Jamaican government in the 19th century. The > known one being Dr James Cecil Phillippo. Where can I check into this? > > Jim > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > >

Alan, This link will give you a wealth of information, along with a list of FHL microfilm records for each islands, http://www.candoo.com/genresources/faq.html bookmark it, you will need it. Ann "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Lenora, Try this: The Original Scots Colonists of Early America: Caribbean Supplement 1611-1707 by David Dobson. Published by Genealogical Publishing Company, 1001 N. Calvert Street, Baltimore, MD 21202. 1999. x, 149 pp. $20 plus $3.50 p&h. This book was fascinating to read after Smith's book Colonists in Bondage: White Servitude and Convict Labor in America 1607-1776. Smith talked about the process and the big picture of getting servants and convicts into the American Colonies and the West Indies. Dobson's book gets specific with details about the individual Scots in the Caribbean who have been identified in the records. Ann "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

In addition to various apothecaries and barbers passing themselves off as doctors, I have read that there was a flood of doctors to the West Indies with the passage of the Slave Acts (early 1800s) which mandated medical care for slaves and fixed fees which the planters were required to pay. Many doctors from the UK, not necessarily the best qualified ones I'm sure, went to the West Indies to take advantage of the opportunity thus created. One of them was my great grandfather's great grandfather, an Assistant Regimental Surgeon with the British Army, whose only medical training seems to have been as a "Hospital Mate," more or less the equivalent of a nurse or orderly. Illustrating the variety of people ending up in the West Indies, he seems to have been from Silesia, and probably Jewish. At the time many British Army soldiers were recruited in Eastern Europe, either through the King's German lands or as prisoners or refugees in the Napoleonic wars who switched sides. He ! also apparently opened an apothecary shop, and his grandson, with no pretense of being a doctor but also no professional training except probably an apprenticeship to his unqualified grandfather, practiced as an apothecary. The place, by the way, was Bequia, and then Kingstown St. Vincent.

Well thanks Dean.. answered my own questions. Now I know that I have a task of only a few years 1600's to 1900's to worry about! This may take more years to sort than I have! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean de Freitas" <caribgw@bellsouth.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 5:51 AM Subject: Re: Scots in the BWI (was Doctors of Physic and Surgery in the British West Indies) > I can second Richard's comments about the Scots. My own Great Grandfather, > a Scotsman, was a plantation overseer, as was his father, and as were many > of the Scots who came to Trinidad. They seemed to be more willing to get > their hands dirty, whereas many of the English seemed to come to Trinidad to > take up positions in the government (this is my personal observation, so it > should be taken as opinion and not fact. And, as with any generalization, > there are exceptions). > > The Scots were also quite instrumental in the early development of > Trinidad's oil industry. > > More generally, here's a pertinent paragraph from a summary of the book > Scots in the West Indies, 1707-1857 > (http://www.genealogy.com/268facd.html?AID=5838130&PID=990659) > > ++++ > > Scotland has had direct social and economic links with the West Indies for > nearly 400 years. Settlement started in 1626 when James Hay, the Earl of > Carlisle, was appointed Proprietor of Barbados. After the union of Scotland > and England in 1707 and the lifting of restrictions on trade between these > two countries, Scotland's trade with the islands expanded and so did its > stream of immigration throughout the West Indies. To a larger extent than > elsewhere, the colonies of the West Indies attracted Scots with skills or > money to invest. Scotsmen figured prominently in the Indies sugar cane, > cotton, and tobacco-growing businesses. These new businesses promoted trade > between the Indies and the mainland ports of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, > Charleston, and Savannah. In due course, families moved between these > various locations, and links were established. The Scottish population of > the West Indies also increased when many Loyalists took refuge there > following the American Revolution. > > ++++ > > Some more interesting articles: > > A description of Scottish Guiana, and the Scots Antilles. > http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/belhavia/Description.htm > > Emigrant Entrepreneurs > http://www.beamccowan.com/entrepre.htm > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Allicock" <richwyn@idirect.com> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 4:22 AM > Subject: Doctors of Physic and Surgery in the British West Indies > > > > Hi Joan, > > > > I have found the children of West Indian plantation owners training in > > Scotland as early as the mid-1700's, training in various fields like > > Chemistry and Agronomy, and other fields which I think would have been > > useful to them as the sons of Plantation owners. This particuIar example > > came from Scotland from a University. Another example that I have, is of a > > son of a Plantation owner, who went to Scotland and trained as a Doctor in > > the very period you mention, even establishing his own Spa or Baths as > they > > were called then. He trained at University too. > > > > But I think the training was more integrated then, with study in > class-rooms > > in the hospitals combined with walking the wards, very similar to the > > teaching hospitals of to-day. I am sure that as soon as many plantation > > owners established a family, and by the time the sons had reached an age > to > > go to university, and had demonstrated the aptitude or inclination for > > further education, some of them did go to university, but not necessarily > to > > study medicine. Many of them did not return to practise in the colonies, > but > > some did. > > > > Your "plethora" of Practitioners in Physic and Surgery probably had some > of > > these. Surgery in those days frequently did not go beyond amputations, or > > lancing boils, which even barbers or ships carpenters could and did do. > > Doctors of Physic was usually one who dispensed medicines, and may have > dome > > some blood letting or leeching. Any apothecary or apothecary's assistant > > could have set himself up as Doctor with or without fake papers. So I > > suspect that there may have been some of these in the mix as well. > > > > But for sure there may have been a few genuine doctors, and for the > British > > West Indies the first place I would look is Scotland. > > > > It seems to be a little known fact on how much the Scots more than the > > English pre-dominated in the day to day life of places like Guyana and > > Jamaica, and I suspect many of the other islands. Once the Crown Colony > > system was established, the English dominated at the political levels, but > > the Scots were well represented, and in some places, and at some times, > even > > predominant in trade and finance, the skilled trades and as Overseers on > the > > Plantations. And not to forget in education as well, through the Scottish > > Missionary Societies, especially afer slavery was abolished, again in the > > period you mention. After the abolition of slavery in 1838, I suspect that > > some older out of work Overseers who may have had years of experience in > > dispensing Apothecaries' potions to the slaves or even performing the odd > > amputation, may have set themselves up with the same title of Doctor of > > Physic and Surgery. > > > > One traveller in the very period you mention commented on how British > Guiana > > was the most Scottish of the British colonies, while Barbados was the most > > English. I am sorry that I did not have the pleasure of reading the whole > > book, as I was reading only in relation to Demerara. However it might help > > to know that I did correspond with some-one at one of the Scottish > > Universities a few years ago, who had just finished a thesis on the Scots > in > > the West Indies. His base of operations was Jamaica and he was a good > > advertisement for Red Stripe beer:)) > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > Richard > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/

Just a question inserted here regarding the Scots... My Brown line were planters in Grenada... I know they were there in mid 1800's.. what would be the earliest date for the Scots to establish, or possibly purchase. estates or establish plantations..? Where can you find information regards the establishment of a plantation?? I am sure there would be Tax Lists or something???? I know someone on this site had a list of plantations and when formed in general,, but I have been unable to find it. I am just curious as to when the Scots might have started appearing.. Trying to sort out the Browns I found in Grenada and their realtionships. Thanks again. Lenora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean de Freitas" <caribgw@bellsouth.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 5:51 AM Subject: Re: Scots in the BWI (was Doctors of Physic and Surgery in the British West Indies) > I can second Richard's comments about the Scots. My own Great Grandfather, > a Scotsman, was a plantation overseer, as was his father, and as were many > of the Scots who came to Trinidad. They seemed to be more willing to get > their hands dirty, whereas many of the English seemed to come to Trinidad to > take up positions in the government (this is my personal observation, so it > should be taken as opinion and not fact. And, as with any generalization, > there are exceptions). > > The Scots were also quite instrumental in the early development of > Trinidad's oil industry. > > More generally, here's a pertinent paragraph from a summary of the book > Scots in the West Indies, 1707-1857 > (http://www.genealogy.com/268facd.html?AID=5838130&PID=990659) > > ++++ > > Scotland has had direct social and economic links with the West Indies for > nearly 400 years. Settlement started in 1626 when James Hay, the Earl of > Carlisle, was appointed Proprietor of Barbados. After the union of Scotland > and England in 1707 and the lifting of restrictions on trade between these > two countries, Scotland's trade with the islands expanded and so did its > stream of immigration throughout the West Indies. To a larger extent than > elsewhere, the colonies of the West Indies attracted Scots with skills or > money to invest. Scotsmen figured prominently in the Indies sugar cane, > cotton, and tobacco-growing businesses. These new businesses promoted trade > between the Indies and the mainland ports of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, > Charleston, and Savannah. In due course, families moved between these > various locations, and links were established. The Scottish population of > the West Indies also increased when many Loyalists took refuge there > following the American Revolution. > > ++++ > > Some more interesting articles: > > A description of Scottish Guiana, and the Scots Antilles. > http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/belhavia/Description.htm > > Emigrant Entrepreneurs > http://www.beamccowan.com/entrepre.htm > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Allicock" <richwyn@idirect.com> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 4:22 AM > Subject: Doctors of Physic and Surgery in the British West Indies > > > > Hi Joan, > > > > I have found the children of West Indian plantation owners training in > > Scotland as early as the mid-1700's, training in various fields like > > Chemistry and Agronomy, and other fields which I think would have been > > useful to them as the sons of Plantation owners. This particuIar example > > came from Scotland from a University. Another example that I have, is of a > > son of a Plantation owner, who went to Scotland and trained as a Doctor in > > the very period you mention, even establishing his own Spa or Baths as > they > > were called then. He trained at University too. > > > > But I think the training was more integrated then, with study in > class-rooms > > in the hospitals combined with walking the wards, very similar to the > > teaching hospitals of to-day. I am sure that as soon as many plantation > > owners established a family, and by the time the sons had reached an age > to > > go to university, and had demonstrated the aptitude or inclination for > > further education, some of them did go to university, but not necessarily > to > > study medicine. Many of them did not return to practise in the colonies, > but > > some did. > > > > Your "plethora" of Practitioners in Physic and Surgery probably had some > of > > these. Surgery in those days frequently did not go beyond amputations, or > > lancing boils, which even barbers or ships carpenters could and did do. > > Doctors of Physic was usually one who dispensed medicines, and may have > dome > > some blood letting or leeching. Any apothecary or apothecary's assistant > > could have set himself up as Doctor with or without fake papers. So I > > suspect that there may have been some of these in the mix as well. > > > > But for sure there may have been a few genuine doctors, and for the > British > > West Indies the first place I would look is Scotland. > > > > It seems to be a little known fact on how much the Scots more than the > > English pre-dominated in the day to day life of places like Guyana and > > Jamaica, and I suspect many of the other islands. Once the Crown Colony > > system was established, the English dominated at the political levels, but > > the Scots were well represented, and in some places, and at some times, > even > > predominant in trade and finance, the skilled trades and as Overseers on > the > > Plantations. And not to forget in education as well, through the Scottish > > Missionary Societies, especially afer slavery was abolished, again in the > > period you mention. After the abolition of slavery in 1838, I suspect that > > some older out of work Overseers who may have had years of experience in > > dispensing Apothecaries' potions to the slaves or even performing the odd > > amputation, may have set themselves up with the same title of Doctor of > > Physic and Surgery. > > > > One traveller in the very period you mention commented on how British > Guiana > > was the most Scottish of the British colonies, while Barbados was the most > > English. I am sorry that I did not have the pleasure of reading the whole > > book, as I was reading only in relation to Demerara. However it might help > > to know that I did correspond with some-one at one of the Scottish > > Universities a few years ago, who had just finished a thesis on the Scots > in > > the West Indies. His base of operations was Jamaica and he was a good > > advertisement for Red Stripe beer:)) > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > Richard > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/

"Richard Allicock" wrote: >about two months ago I learnt that analysis can obtain both X and Y >chromosomal data from mitochondrial DNA. ... A reference for this knowledge would be appreciated.

I can second Richard's comments about the Scots. My own Great Grandfather, a Scotsman, was a plantation overseer, as was his father, and as were many of the Scots who came to Trinidad. They seemed to be more willing to get their hands dirty, whereas many of the English seemed to come to Trinidad to take up positions in the government (this is my personal observation, so it should be taken as opinion and not fact. And, as with any generalization, there are exceptions). The Scots were also quite instrumental in the early development of Trinidad's oil industry. More generally, here's a pertinent paragraph from a summary of the book Scots in the West Indies, 1707-1857 (http://www.genealogy.com/268facd.html?AID=5838130&PID=990659) ++++ Scotland has had direct social and economic links with the West Indies for nearly 400 years. Settlement started in 1626 when James Hay, the Earl of Carlisle, was appointed Proprietor of Barbados. After the union of Scotland and England in 1707 and the lifting of restrictions on trade between these two countries, Scotland's trade with the islands expanded and so did its stream of immigration throughout the West Indies. To a larger extent than elsewhere, the colonies of the West Indies attracted Scots with skills or money to invest. Scotsmen figured prominently in the Indies sugar cane, cotton, and tobacco-growing businesses. These new businesses promoted trade between the Indies and the mainland ports of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Charleston, and Savannah. In due course, families moved between these various locations, and links were established. The Scottish population of the West Indies also increased when many Loyalists took refuge there following the American Revolution. ++++ Some more interesting articles: A description of Scottish Guiana, and the Scots Antilles. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/belhavia/Description.htm Emigrant Entrepreneurs http://www.beamccowan.com/entrepre.htm Dean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Allicock" <richwyn@idirect.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 4:22 AM Subject: Doctors of Physic and Surgery in the British West Indies > Hi Joan, > > I have found the children of West Indian plantation owners training in > Scotland as early as the mid-1700's, training in various fields like > Chemistry and Agronomy, and other fields which I think would have been > useful to them as the sons of Plantation owners. This particuIar example > came from Scotland from a University. Another example that I have, is of a > son of a Plantation owner, who went to Scotland and trained as a Doctor in > the very period you mention, even establishing his own Spa or Baths as they > were called then. He trained at University too. > > But I think the training was more integrated then, with study in class-rooms > in the hospitals combined with walking the wards, very similar to the > teaching hospitals of to-day. I am sure that as soon as many plantation > owners established a family, and by the time the sons had reached an age to > go to university, and had demonstrated the aptitude or inclination for > further education, some of them did go to university, but not necessarily to > study medicine. Many of them did not return to practise in the colonies, but > some did. > > Your "plethora" of Practitioners in Physic and Surgery probably had some of > these. Surgery in those days frequently did not go beyond amputations, or > lancing boils, which even barbers or ships carpenters could and did do. > Doctors of Physic was usually one who dispensed medicines, and may have dome > some blood letting or leeching. Any apothecary or apothecary's assistant > could have set himself up as Doctor with or without fake papers. So I > suspect that there may have been some of these in the mix as well. > > But for sure there may have been a few genuine doctors, and for the British > West Indies the first place I would look is Scotland. > > It seems to be a little known fact on how much the Scots more than the > English pre-dominated in the day to day life of places like Guyana and > Jamaica, and I suspect many of the other islands. Once the Crown Colony > system was established, the English dominated at the political levels, but > the Scots were well represented, and in some places, and at some times, even > predominant in trade and finance, the skilled trades and as Overseers on the > Plantations. And not to forget in education as well, through the Scottish > Missionary Societies, especially afer slavery was abolished, again in the > period you mention. After the abolition of slavery in 1838, I suspect that > some older out of work Overseers who may have had years of experience in > dispensing Apothecaries' potions to the slaves or even performing the odd > amputation, may have set themselves up with the same title of Doctor of > Physic and Surgery. > > One traveller in the very period you mention commented on how British Guiana > was the most Scottish of the British colonies, while Barbados was the most > English. I am sorry that I did not have the pleasure of reading the whole > book, as I was reading only in relation to Demerara. However it might help > to know that I did correspond with some-one at one of the Scottish > Universities a few years ago, who had just finished a thesis on the Scots in > the West Indies. His base of operations was Jamaica and he was a good > advertisement for Red Stripe beer:)) > > I hope this helps. > > Richard

There is a little book, available from the Society of Genealogists in London, they have a website , book shop and you can buy on-line - costs about £5 I reckon called: Records of the Medical Professions, A Practical Guide, Bourne and Chicken, 1994 There is an enormous book - I have seen it in the Soc Gen Library, but never used it, called: Wallis PJ & RV, Eighteenth Century Medics, Newcastle upon Tyne, 2nd edition 1988, £80. Which should have anybody practising then The problem, which bothered me about Jamaican doctors, was the period 1800-1850. After about then there was an annual Medical Register in the UK. For the 1800-1850 period there are list sof qualified people in the Royal College of Physicians, you have to go to the RCP and go through the lists, the Royal College of Surgeons, you have to write to them, they will not let you in but they proved very helpful to me, and the Apothecaries Hall, all the lists are in the Guildhall Library in the City of London. Then there are the University graduates, Oxford & Cambridge and the Scottish four. Ox-bridge is published. But get the Bourne and Chicken book, you may have quite a job in front of you. Edward Crawford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garcia-Sibley" <wintergully@direct.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 1:38 AM Subject: Re PRO wills for doctors > Thanks to those who recently gave us this address at the PRO: > > http://www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk/ > > I entered "Jamaica" in the Advanced Search section and deleted all > categories except "wills" and "text". > > First, I was struck by how many unfamiliar names there were, and assume that > many were UK ex-patriots or seamen who worked on ships travelling to > Jamaica. > > Second, I noticed an extraordinary number of "Practitioners in Physic (sic) > and Surgery". I would welcome any thoughts from Listers on the following: > Would these have been doctors mostly from the UK working in the Island? > Does anyone know the most likely cities/country where West Indians would > have gone for medical training between 1800 and 1850? I wonder if the > training then would have taken place as it does now, first at a university > and then at a hospital. > > I ask because my g-g-g-grandfather, who was born in Jamaica and who also > died there, practised medicine in Kingston. His son is also described as a > medical doctor, yet we can find absolutely no record of where they trained. > > Thanks, > Joan Garcia > -- > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > ______________________________________________________________ > This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, > powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please > visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk. > ______________________________________________________________ This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk.

Dean, Thanks! I've book marked surname helper AND surnames in the Caribbean. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean de Freitas" <caribgw@bellsouth.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 7:51 AM Subject: FAQ for the Caribbean-L Mailing List and soc.genealogy.west-indies > FAQ for the Caribbean-L Mailing List and soc.genealogy.west-indies > > Summary > > This document contains responses to frequently asked questions related to > genealogy in the Caribbean. Anyone wishing to post to the > soc.genealogy.west-indies newsgroup or the associated mailing list, > Caribbean-L, should read this document. This information will be posted to > the newsgroup / list on a periodic basis. The FAQ is also available on the > World Wide Web at http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/mailinglistfaq.htm > > Suggestions are welcome and should be sent to Dean de Freitas at > deandef@bellsouth.net. > > Chris Codrington and Margaret Olson contributed to the content of this > document. > > For general questions about Rootsweb Mailing Lists, check out the following > FAQ's: > > Mailing Lists - What are they? > (http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html) > Subscribing / Unsubscribing (http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail2.htm) > Subscriber Questions (http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail3.html) > Problem Solving (http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/email.html) > > For more information on USENET, try these links: > > Usenet FAQ (http://www.ou.edu/research/electron/internet/use-faq.htm) > FAQ's by Newsgroup (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/) > > Copyright 2002 by the CaribbeanGenWeb Project. All rights reserved. > > This document may be freely distributed provided that the copyright notice > is included. This document may NOT be included in any commercial publication > without the express written consent of the CaribbeanGenWeb Project > Coordinator. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Frequently Asked Questions > > 1. What are the Caribbean-L Mailing List and the soc.genealogy.west-indies > newsgroup? What is the the relationship between them? > 2. How can I subscribe to the Caribbean-L List? > 3. What are considered acceptable topics for discussion on this mail list > /newsgroup? > 4. I am a new user. What should I do to get started? > 5. What is the "netiquette" for posting to this mail list / newsgroup? > 6. What is the difference between a mailing list and a newsgroup? > 7. Can I search old messages from the mail list or newsgroup? > 8. Why doesn't the subject line contain a "prepend" indicating the name of > the list like my other Rootsweb lists do? > 9. I thought the list was moderated. Why does SPAM appear on the list > sometimes? > 10. Can I attach a file to the messages I post to the list? > 11. Is there a surname index for this mailing list / newsgroup? > 12. What is the difference between the Caribbean and the West Indies? > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 1. What are the Caribbean-L Mailing List and the soc.genealogy.west-indies > newsgroup? What is the relationship between them ? > > The best way to answer this question is to provide a little history. The > soc.genealogy.west-indies newsgroup was created in 1996 as part of the > soc.genealogy.* heirarchy on USENET. A history of the soc.genealogy > newsgroups can be found at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~socgen/index.htm. > The rationale behind its creation, and a copy of the newsgroup charter is > located at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~socgen/Westind.htm. > > The Caribbean-L mailing list was created at Rootsweb as a part of the > CaribGenWeb Project. CaribGenWeb is one of many regions in the WorldGenWeb > family and is an umbrella for sites dedicated to each of the countries in > the region. The CaribGenWeb site is located at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/. > > In 1999 a vote was taken among the subscribers of the mailing list to > determine if the list should be "gatewayed" with the > soc.genealogy.west-indies newsgroup to facilitate the flow of information > and increase participation. The original post announcing the vote is at > http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ifetch2?/u1/textindices/C/CARIBBEAN+19 > 98+20933358019+F, and the notification that the gateway had been implemented > is here: > http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ifetch2?/u1/textindices/C/CARIBBEAN+19 > 99+21643360234+F. > > For more on the gatewayed lists at Rootsweb, visit > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~socgen/Abtmail.htm. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 2. How can I subscribe to the Caribbean-L List? > > Instructions for subscribing are located at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/mailinglist.html > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 3. What are considered acceptable topics for discussion on this mail list > /newsgroup? > > This group is for genealogical research related to the islands of the > Caribbean. Posts about these topics must be relevant to Caribbean genealogy > in some way. Acceptable topics include: > > * Surname and family queries > * Historical information about the islands and their inhabitants > * Methods of research > * Sources of information > * Culture > > Inappropriate topics or posts are: > > * Posts that sell or advertise a product are not appropriate. Information > about the availabilty and price of a product or service related to the > topics above are acceptable. > * Personal attacks on individuals or groups or posts that are inflammatory > in nature will not be tolerated. > > Violations of these policies may result in a report to the guilty party's > Internet Service Provider (ISP). > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 4. I am a new user. What should I do to get started? > > The first thing that you should realize is that, for many reasons, > genealogical research in the Caribbean is incredibly difficult when compared > to resaerch in larger countries such as the U.S, Canada, or the U.K. > Archives are typically understaffed, underfunded, and disorganized. Stories > abound about invaluable historical documents piled in corners in old, > non-climate controlled storage rooms. Vital records are also difficult to > obtain, with Registrar's offices rarely responding to overseas requests for > documents. Professional researchers in the islands are also few and far > between. The good news is that many records have been archived by the > governments that once controlled the islands. The Public Record Office (PRO) > in the U.K. is one such place. > > That being said, the best thing to do is post a message on the list or > newsgroup with as much information as you know about your ancestors and ask > for guidance. There are regular contributors to the list with experience in > many of the islands. Many times they can provide guidance on where to start. > > Another tactic that increases your chances of discovering information is to > post your interests in as many forums as possible. Surname lists and > newsroups, bulletin boards, and regional groups dedicated to the "mothe > country" are just a few alternatives. > > Most of all, be persistent. Many researchers have been contacted years after > their original posts by new people just getting involved in their own > research. > > NOTE: If you are new to genealogy research online, please read "Getting > Started" at http://www.woodgate.org/FAQs/new_user.html before posting to the > list / newsgroup. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 5. What is the "netiquette" for posting to this mail list / newsgroup? > > Netiquette guidelines for the soc.genealogy.* hierarchy will be followed in > this group / list. Details are at > http://www.woodgate.org/FAQs/netiquette.html. A good source of information > for general mailing list netiquette is > http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 6. What is the difference between a mailing list and a newsgroup? Newsgroups > have been around a long time - way before Rootsweb - way before AOL and > Prodigy and the web. ROOTS-L and a newsgroup named soc.roots were formed > about the same time and were joined a bit later by a couple of pioneers into > a successful gateway which on very busy days got maybe 25 messages. It got > up to 100 a day by 1994. > > To start with, newsgroups are not "on Rootsweb". They are on your ISP's > server or on servers at places like google.com. Newsgroups are anarchies > with nobody at all in charge. Messages are transferred around the net to be > picked up by servers in all kinds of places. Email is not involved. > > I should say nobody is in charge of the unmoderated newsgroups, though the > mailing list does have a list manager who takes care of the RootsWeb > subscribers. Moderated newsgroups have moderators in charge - but they are > there because they were voted in when the group was formed. > > Rootsweb has mailing list mirrors of all 25 of the soc.genealogy.* > newsgroups except for soc.genealogy.jewish and it has a mirror of > alt.genealogy. The mirror/gateway lists get all the messages which go to the > newsgroups and they post all their messages into the newsgroups. The very > reason for the existence of these mailing lists is to mirror those > newsgroups, so they live by newsgroups rules. Occasionally this causes a > problem. It is important that the mailing list readers understand that the > list manager cannot "do" anything about posts to the newsgroup. > > Usually the gateways are invisible to the readers. Because of the anarchic > nature of newsgroups sometimes off topic messages get through which cannot > be controlled by a list manager. > > Because newsgroups provide the "feature" of being able to crosspost to other > newsgroups, the worst problems come from troublemakers from the newsgroups > side of the gateway who purposely crosspost to unrelated newsgroups and > cause a whole lot of crossposted replies from people who are not reading a > genealogy group and may just love to argue or be vulgar. This does not > happen often, but when it does, the mailing list readers tend to make it > worse by yelling for the LISTOWNER TO DO SOMETHING which, of course, is > impossible and which makes the vulgar people get more vulgar if they see it. > A mailing list message will NOT get crossposted to the other lists, at > least, but quotes of it may. > > Many mailing list subscribers are surprised to find their messages are on > newsgroups and vice versa. The connection, though, is beneficial to all. A > mailing list with 1000 subscribers possibly has 10,000 readers on the > newsgroup side of the gateway - maybe more. > > (This information is from a posting by Margaret Olson to the Listowners-L > mailing list dated November 29, 2000. Reprinted with permission.) > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 7. Can I search old messages from the mail list or newsgroup? > > The mailing list messages are archived from 1998 to the present. They can be > searched interactively, or read in a "threaded" format by month. The > interactive search page is > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. The > threaded archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/CARIBBEAN-L. > > Newsgroup postings from 1995 to the present can be found at Google Groups > http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search). > > Posts made after the gateway was activated in 1999 should appear in both > archives. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 8. Why doesn't the subject line contain a "prepend" indicating the name of > the list like my other Rootsweb lists do? > > The "prepend" option has been disabled on Caribbean-L to avoid confusion for > readers who access the posts through soc.genealogy.west-indies. This is > typical of all gatewayed lists. > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > 9. I thought the list was moderated. Why does SPAM appear on the list > sometimes? > > The list is NOT moderated. The list is "closed", which means only > subscribers may post. The list is also gatewayed with the USENET newsgroup, > which is "filtered". While these tools keep most SPAM out, some postings can > get through these controls. The List Administrator will take approriate > action against any subscriber that violates the SPAM policy, but there is > not much we can do to stop the occassional newsgroup post that makes it > through the filters, except ignore it. Responding to offensive or > commericial SPAM messages only perpetuates them, so please refrain from > doing so > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 10. Can I attach a file to the messages I post to the list / newsgroup? > > No, all attachments are stripped from posts before they are sent to > subscribers on the mailing list. Attachments to posts on the newsgroup are > subject to normal USENET limitations. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 11. Is there is surname index for this mailing list / newsgroup? > > There is no "official" surname index for this group. One of our subscribers > maintains a free list called CARSURDEX (CARibbean SURname InDEX) at > http://www.candoo.com/surnames/index.html. > > Another useful resource is the Surname Helper > (http://surhelp.rootsweb.com/srchall.html), which allows a user to search > the Message Boards and Websites at Rootsweb. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 12. What is the difference between the Caribbean and the West Indies? > > The difference is a technical one, and of minor importance in usage today . > The term "West Indies" refers to the archipelago of islands stretching from > Florida to South America. It is comprised of the Bahamas, the Greater > Antilles, and the Lesser Antilles. The term "Caribbean" refers to the region > of the world where the West Indies is located. These terms are > interchangeable in common usage. > > In historical terms, the West Indies is divided up by their respective > colonial rulers. For example, reference is made to the British West Indies, > French West Indies, Danish West Indies, etc. Within this context, some > countries on the South and Central American mainland were included in the > grouping due to their close economic and cultural ties. One common example > is that British Guiana (now Guyana) was considered a part of the British > West Indies > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked >